Humans in North America more than 36,000 year ago

[Old Rocks]

It appears that there were humans in North America more than 36,000 years ago. The evidence is the butchering of two mammoths in New Mexico. That would indicate that the humans were there much before that, as it would take generations to get from either coast to New Mexico. Now the question is were these Neanderthal, Denisovan, or Homo Sapiens, or a hybrid? We have seen the evidence of the earliest human occupation of North America pushed back from 13,000 years ago to the present 36,000+ years.
"Calibrating human population dispersals across Earth’s surface is fundamental to assessing rates and timing of anthropogenic impacts and distinguishing ecological phenomena influenced by humans from those that were not. Here, we describe the Hartley mammoth locality, which dates to 38,900–36,250 cal BP by AMS 14C analysis of hydroxyproline from bone collagen. We accept the standard view that elaborate stone technology of the Eurasian Upper Paleolithic was introduced into the Americas by arrival of the Native American clade ∼16,000 cal BP. It follows that if older cultural sites exist in the Americas, they might only be diagnosed using nuanced taphonomic approaches. We employed computed tomography (CT and μCT) and other state-of-the-art methods that had not previously been applied to investigating ancient American sites. This revealed multiple lines of taphonomic evidence suggesting that two mammoths were butchered using expedient lithic and bone technology, along with evidence diagnostic of controlled (domestic) fire. That this may be an ancient cultural site is corroborated by independent genetic evidence of two founding populations for humans in the Americas, which has already raised the possibility of a dispersal into the Americas by people of East Asian ancestry that preceded the Native American clade by millennia. The Hartley mammoth locality thus provides a new deep point of chronologic reference for occupation of the Americas and the attainment by humans of a near-global distribution."

Frontiers | Human Occupation of the North American Colorado Plateau ∼37,000 Years Ago

Calibrating human population dispersals across Earth’s surface is fundamental to assessing rates and timing of anthropogenic impacts and distinguishing ecolo...

www.frontiersin.org

Introduction​

 

[1srelluc]

 

[Votto]

Go ahead, kill those mammoths and eat them they said.

Don't worry, no one will ever find out about it so don't worry about getting in trouble for it they said.

 

[Hafar1014]

It appears that there were humans in North America more than 36,000 years ago. The evidence is the butchering of two mammoths in New Mexico. That would indicate that the humans were there much before that, as it would take generations to get from either coast to New Mexico. Now the question is were these Neanderthal, Denisovan, or Homo Sapiens, or a hybrid? We have seen the evidence of the earliest human occupation of North America pushed back from 13,000 years ago to the present 36,000+ years.
"Calibrating human population dispersals across Earth’s surface is fundamental to assessing rates and timing of anthropogenic impacts and distinguishing ecological phenomena influenced by humans from those that were not. Here, we describe the Hartley mammoth locality, which dates to 38,900–36,250 cal BP by AMS 14C analysis of hydroxyproline from bone collagen. We accept the standard view that elaborate stone technology of the Eurasian Upper Paleolithic was introduced into the Americas by arrival of the Native American clade ∼16,000 cal BP. It follows that if older cultural sites exist in the Americas, they might only be diagnosed using nuanced taphonomic approaches. We employed computed tomography (CT and μCT) and other state-of-the-art methods that had not previously been applied to investigating ancient American sites. This revealed multiple lines of taphonomic evidence suggesting that two mammoths were butchered using expedient lithic and bone technology, along with evidence diagnostic of controlled (domestic) fire. That this may be an ancient cultural site is corroborated by independent genetic evidence of two founding populations for humans in the Americas, which has already raised the possibility of a dispersal into the Americas by people of East Asian ancestry that preceded the Native American clade by millennia. The Hartley mammoth locality thus provides a new deep point of chronologic reference for occupation of the Americas and the attainment by humans of a near-global distribution."

Frontiers | Human Occupation of the North American Colorado Plateau ∼37,000 Years Ago

Calibrating human population dispersals across Earth’s surface is fundamental to assessing rates and timing of anthropogenic impacts and distinguishing ecolo...

www.frontiersin.org

Introduction​

I believe the first Clovis migration was 22000 years ago in a recent study. They came across the Bearing land bridge when the water was low.

 

[Mushroom]

It appears that there were humans in North America more than 36,000 years ago.

And this is likely true.

More and more over the last several years, the "Clovis First" theory has been largely dismissed. Mostly because the Clovis culture only starts in around 12-13 kya. And there have been multiple sites that have pushed human habitation back to at least 15-18 kya. With some now showing evidence of 48-60 kya.

Myself, I do believe that the actual date is likely close to the 45-60 kya timeframe. But because of where the habitation was we will never find the archaeological evidence until somewhere around the next Glacial Maximum. But realistically, there is absolutely no reason that humans could not have reached the Americas outside of the time of their arrival in Australia. In fact, traveling from Siberia to North America during the ice age would have been far easier than traveling to Australia.

 

[Mushroom]

I believe the first Clovis migration was 22000 years ago in a recent study.

No, it was around 15 kya.

However, there have over the decades been a lot of discoveries of "Pre-Clovis Cultures". But there is little to actually name them other than "Pre-Clovis". But one of them now believed to be Pre-Clovis is known as the "Western Stemmed Tradition".

But to be blunt, a hell of a lot of evidence is likely never going to be discovered because that was during the Glacial Maximum.

 

[whitehall]

Mammoths died out after the last Ice Age which could have been between 10,000 and 4.000 years ago.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I remember how decades ago Virginia Steen Macintyre was shunned from mainstream archaeology because she dared to say she found carbon dated human presence in Mexico…

250,000 years ago

250,000!!

Gobekli Tepi

Giza subterranean structures

If mainstream archaeological is insisting on something, it’s probably best to be skeptical

 

[Astrostar]

It appears that there were humans in North America more than 36,000 years ago. The evidence is the butchering of two mammoths in New Mexico. That would indicate that the humans were there much before that, as it would take generations to get from either coast to New Mexico. Now the question is were these Neanderthal, Denisovan, or Homo Sapiens, or a hybrid? We have seen the evidence of the earliest human occupation of North America pushed back from 13,000 years ago to the present 36,000+ years.
"Calibrating human population dispersals across Earth’s surface is fundamental to assessing rates and timing of anthropogenic impacts and distinguishing ecological phenomena influenced by humans from those that were not. Here, we describe the Hartley mammoth locality, which dates to 38,900–36,250 cal BP by AMS 14C analysis of hydroxyproline from bone collagen. We accept the standard view that elaborate stone technology of the Eurasian Upper Paleolithic was introduced into the Americas by arrival of the Native American clade ∼16,000 cal BP. It follows that if older cultural sites exist in the Americas, they might only be diagnosed using nuanced taphonomic approaches. We employed computed tomography (CT and μCT) and other state-of-the-art methods that had not previously been applied to investigating ancient American sites. This revealed multiple lines of taphonomic evidence suggesting that two mammoths were butchered using expedient lithic and bone technology, along with evidence diagnostic of controlled (domestic) fire. That this may be an ancient cultural site is corroborated by independent genetic evidence of two founding populations for humans in the Americas, which has already raised the possibility of a dispersal into the Americas by people of East Asian ancestry that preceded the Native American clade by millennia. The Hartley mammoth locality thus provides a new deep point of chronologic reference for occupation of the Americas and the attainment by humans of a near-global distribution."

Frontiers | Human Occupation of the North American Colorado Plateau ∼37,000 Years Ago

Calibrating human population dispersals across Earth’s surface is fundamental to assessing rates and timing of anthropogenic impacts and distinguishing ecolo...

www.frontiersin.org

Introduction​

How can that be when earth is only 6,000 years old per the religious nutcases?

 

[westwall]

There is a study that was published in 2019 IIRC, that discussed evidence of human activity in Southern California around 130,000 years ago. Based on cracked open wooly mammoth bones.

 

[BackAgain]

It appears that there were humans in North America more than 36,000 years ago. The evidence is the butchering of two mammoths in New Mexico. That would indicate that the humans were there much before that, as it would take generations to get from either coast to New Mexico. Now the question is were these Neanderthal, Denisovan, or Homo Sapiens, or a hybrid? We have seen the evidence of the earliest human occupation of North America pushed back from 13,000 years ago to the present 36,000+ years.
"Calibrating human population dispersals across Earth’s surface is fundamental to assessing rates and timing of anthropogenic impacts and distinguishing ecological phenomena influenced by humans from those that were not. Here, we describe the Hartley mammoth locality, which dates to 38,900–36,250 cal BP by AMS 14C analysis of hydroxyproline from bone collagen. We accept the standard view that elaborate stone technology of the Eurasian Upper Paleolithic was introduced into the Americas by arrival of the Native American clade ∼16,000 cal BP. It follows that if older cultural sites exist in the Americas, they might only be diagnosed using nuanced taphonomic approaches. We employed computed tomography (CT and μCT) and other state-of-the-art methods that had not previously been applied to investigating ancient American sites. This revealed multiple lines of taphonomic evidence suggesting that two mammoths were butchered using expedient lithic and bone technology, along with evidence diagnostic of controlled (domestic) fire. That this may be an ancient cultural site is corroborated by independent genetic evidence of two founding populations for humans in the Americas, which has already raised the possibility of a dispersal into the Americas by people of East Asian ancestry that preceded the Native American clade by millennia. The Hartley mammoth locality thus provides a new deep point of chronologic reference for occupation of the Americas and the attainment by humans of a near-global distribution."

Frontiers | Human Occupation of the North American Colorado Plateau ∼37,000 Years Ago

Calibrating human population dispersals across Earth’s surface is fundamental to assessing rates and timing of anthropogenic impacts and distinguishing ecolo...

www.frontiersin.org

Introduction​

Very cool.

 

[BackAgain]

How can that be when earth is only 6,000 years old per the religious nutcases?

Sit down, ass-troll.

 

[Mushroom]

Mammoths died out after the last Ice Age which could have been between 10,000 and 4.000 years ago.

Around 4 kya. The last known group was in northern Siberia at Wrangel Island. And yes, there were still mammoths around when the Great Pyramid was built.

However, they ultimately were doomed as were all megafauna. Being large is an adaptation largely only seen during eras of cold climates. When things warm up, being large is detrimental and being small is an advantage.

 

[whitehall]

Human existence could be a scientific or a political argument. Mostly lefties throw religion into the mix for political reasons but the issue is that the Ice Age ended about 10,000 years ago.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It appears that there were humans in North America more than 36,000 years ago. The evidence is the butchering of two mammoths in New Mexico. That would indicate that the humans were there much before that, as it would take generations to get from either coast to New Mexico. Now the question is were these Neanderthal, Denisovan, or Homo Sapiens, or a hybrid? We have seen the evidence of the earliest human occupation of North America pushed back from 13,000 years ago to the present 36,000+ years.
"Calibrating human population dispersals across Earth’s surface is fundamental to assessing rates and timing of anthropogenic impacts and distinguishing ecological phenomena influenced by humans from those that were not. Here, we describe the Hartley mammoth locality, which dates to 38,900–36,250 cal BP by AMS 14C analysis of hydroxyproline from bone collagen. We accept the standard view that elaborate stone technology of the Eurasian Upper Paleolithic was introduced into the Americas by arrival of the Native American clade ∼16,000 cal BP. It follows that if older cultural sites exist in the Americas, they might only be diagnosed using nuanced taphonomic approaches. We employed computed tomography (CT and μCT) and other state-of-the-art methods that had not previously been applied to investigating ancient American sites. This revealed multiple lines of taphonomic evidence suggesting that two mammoths were butchered using expedient lithic and bone technology, along with evidence diagnostic of controlled (domestic) fire. That this may be an ancient cultural site is corroborated by independent genetic evidence of two founding populations for humans in the Americas, which has already raised the possibility of a dispersal into the Americas by people of East Asian ancestry that preceded the Native American clade by millennia. The Hartley mammoth locality thus provides a new deep point of chronologic reference for occupation of the Americas and the attainment by humans of a near-global distribution."

Frontiers | Human Occupation of the North American Colorado Plateau ∼37,000 Years Ago

Calibrating human population dispersals across Earth’s surface is fundamental to assessing rates and timing of anthropogenic impacts and distinguishing ecolo...

www.frontiersin.org

Introduction​

Good find!

 

[Failzero]

End NAGPRA for Science now , 20-40 Thousand year old remains do not have any tribal affiliation

 

[Mushroom]

There is a study that was published in 2019 IIRC, that discussed evidence of human activity in Southern California around 130,000 years ago. Based on cracked open wooly mammoth bones.

The Cerutti Mastadon Site near San Diego. Which is considered to be junk science by anybody with an actual reputation in the field.

At that time the most traveled humans only settled in the Middle East around 100 kya. And bones by themselves mean nothing without other evidence of human presence. Especially as there is absolutely no evidence of lithic fragments or artifacts at the site or anywhere close by. As well as absolutely no evidence of human remains or activity relating to the site at that date.

 

[westwall]

The Cerutti Mastadon Site near San Diego. Which is considered to be junk science by anybody with an actual reputation in the field.

At that time the most traveled humans only settled in the Middle East around 100 kya. And bones by themselves mean nothing without other evidence of human presence. Especially as there is absolutely no evidence of lithic fragments or artifacts at the site or anywhere close by. As well as absolutely no evidence of human remains or activity relating to the site at that date.

Reputable Archeologists" have been proven wrong enough times I no longer care about their opinions.

As the saying goes, you describe the item, not the story. Archeology is full of stories, but little real science.

I remember when Otzi was discovered. He had a little copper axe head on his body, so all the "reputable archeologists" claimed he was a religious figure, claiming the copper axehead was useless for anything but ceremonies.

Then I watch a reenactor use an exact duplicate of the axehead use it for fine wood working. He showed how the stone axe that Otzi was also carrying actually was useless for anything save brute force work.

Then, as more advanced research went on it turns out that Otzi was just a regular guy, who also happens to be the earliest known "murder" on record.

So, yet again, the vaunted archeologists were proven wrong.

 

[westwall]

Around 4 kya. The last known group was in northern Siberia at Wrangel Island. And yes, there were still mammoths around when the Great Pyramid was built.

However, they ultimately were doomed as were all megafauna. Being large is an adaptation largely only seen during eras of cold climates. When things warm up, being large is detrimental and being small is an advantage.

Tell that to the dinosaurs. They reached peak size when it was 15 to 20 degrees warmer than the present day. Warm enough globally that there were no polar ice caps.

 

[Failzero]

Reputable Archeologists" have been proven wrong enough times I no longer care about their opinions.

As the saying goes, you describe the item, not the story. Archeology is full of stories, but little real science.

I remember when Otzi was discovered. He had a little copper are head on his body, so all the "reputable archeologists" claimed he was a religious figure, claiming the copper axehead was useless for anything but ceremonies.

Then I watch a reenactor use an exact duplicate of the axehead use it for fine wood working. He showed how the stone axe that Otzi was also carrying actually was useless for anything save brute force work.

Then, as more advanced research went on it turns out that Otzi was just a regular guy, who also happens to be the earliest known "murder" on record.

So, yet again, the vaunted archeologists were proven wrong.

They have easily gone back 18-20 Thousand years ( Pre Clovis ) and my guess is they will find pre Diluvial remains and even farther back .