CDZ How would you implement arming school staff to keep mass shooters from attacking?

[2aguy]

Except you don't know what you are talking about...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Nope it's easier for a criminal to get a gun here than anywhere in the world. I don't want that to start happening in our schools.

Nope......criminals in France easily get fully automatic military weapons....they are a status symbol there......

Yes.....only mass shooters should be able to carry guns in our schools....good plan.

France has an enviable murder and gun crime rate compared to ours.

Their gun control doesn't work either...

Hundreds of guns, grenades, ammo seized from French sports shop owner

Hundreds of assault rifles, shotguns, and pistols, along with hand grenades and 100 kilos of ammunition, have been confiscated from a sports shop owner in the northern French port town of Boulogne-sur-Mer.

In total, 488 guns, 13 grenades, 1,309 weapons parts, and more than 100 kilos of cartridges and ammunition were seized, customs officials said in a statement.

'An Everest of Murderous Frenzy': Marseille Drug Gangs Are Using GPS to Kill Their Rivals | VICE News

Delseny gave the example of a double homicide on November 9, in which two people riding in a BMW were gunned down as their car exited a tunnel near the Vieux-Port harbor. According to Marseille prosecutor Brice Robin, the killing was part of a turf war between rival drug gangs.

Several companies in France sell these GPS tracking devices, which are more of less accurate and discreet, depending on the model. Basic models retail for around 200 to 500 euros ($230 to $570), and can be purchased online. Many of the trackers are waterproof and can be easily affixed to a vehicle since they are magnetized.



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Around 10pm on Saturday, two or three men armed with automatic weapons showed up outside a grocery store in the Bassens projects, in the north of the city. Three individuals aged 20 to 30 who had gathered at the store to watch a live broadcast of the Barcelona versus Real Madrid soccer game were killed in the shooting. One of the victims was not involved in drugs trafficking, and appears to have been in the wrong place at the wrong time.

============

French gunman's arsenal spotlights illegal arms trade


As France asks itself whether it could have done more to prevent Islamist gunman Mohamed Merah shooting dead seven people in a killing spree that shook the nation, there is one question that refuses to go away: how did he obtain so many guns.

The size and nature of the arsenal amassed by Merah - who stockpiled at least eight guns including a Kalashnikov assault rifle and an Uzi machine pistol - has focused attention on the easy availability of illegal weapons in France and their growing use in ultra-violent crimes.

As an angry online reader of the daily Le Figaro newspaper put it: "How was he able to buy all these guns, like one buys yoghurts, when he was under the surveillance of the DCRI (the French intelligence agency)?"


====================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

But in recent years a black market has proliferated. The number of illegal weapons has risen at a rapid rate – double-digit percentages – for several years, according to the National Observatory for Delinquency, a body created in 2003.

“In Marseille and the surrounding area almost all the score settling is carried out using weapons used in wars,” a police spokesman told Reuters after the Toulouse attacks, adding that Kalashnikovs were the weapon of choice: “If you don’t have a ‘Kalash’ you’re a bit of a loser.”

============================
Paris attacks highlight France's gun control problems

The arsenal of weapons deployed by the eight attackers who terrorised Paris on Friday night underlined France’s gun control problems and raised the spectre of further attacks.

The country has extremely strict weapons laws, but Europe’s open borders and growing trade in illegal weapons means assault rifles are relatively easy to come by on the black market.



-------------=================
France’s real gun problem

Despite these strict laws, France seems to be awash with guns.

The guns used in high-profile terror attacks are really just the tip of the iceberg. In 2012, French authorities estimated that there were around 30,000 guns illegally in the country, many likely used by gangs for criminal activities. Of those guns, around 4,000 were likely to be "war weapons," Le Figaro reported, referring to items such as the Kalashnikov AK-variant rifles and Uzis. Statistics from the National Observatory for Delinquency, a government body created in 2003, suggest that the number of guns in France has grown by double digits every year.
----------------------
How Europe's Terrorists Get Their Guns

France became particularly worried about the trafficking of illegal guns in 2012, increasing fines and jail terms for those involved in the trafficking and possession of them. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said in Septemberthat police have seized nearly 6,000 weapons from criminal groups each year since 2013, 1,200 of which were military assault weapons. And in the three weeks following the Nov. 13 attacks, Cazeneuve said French police seized 334 weapons, 34 of them military-grade.

Several officials and experts tell TIME they’ve seen a noticeable climb in both the numbers and the types of illicit weapons crossing borders over the past few years. Rather than pistols and small guns, there has been a spike in demand for military-grade assault weapons. This reflects a very different kind of criminality: petty criminals and drug dealers tend to want small pistols that they can conceal; terrorists want AK-47s that can do maximum damage.

“For something like the Paris attacks, you don’t need hundreds of thousands of weapons. You just need enough to create havoc,” says Zverzhanovski. “The gun market operates on a very basic supply and demand system. Since about 2011, there has definitely been a significant increase of illicit weapons going from southeast Europe towards different parts of the E.U.” Crucially, it’s not truckloads or planeloads of weapons coming in. It’s much more a case of “micro-trafficking”—a few pieces being brought in by individuals—making it much more difficult to track.

Good for them, confiscating illegal weapons and keeping them off the streets

They do not allow people to own fully automatic military weapons, they have no gun stores, no gun shows.......so there shouldn't be guns to be taken off the streets....yet there are.....

 

[jon_berzerk]

this is our method out here

School Sentinel Training Program
Law Enforcement Training provides training for all approved school sentinels. The training course for the school sentinel program consists of at least 80 hours of training in the following subject areas.

1. Firearms proficiency
2. Use of force
3. Legal aspects
4. Weapons retention
5. Identifying protocol for identifying sentinel
6. First aid

The school board may submit a person for school sentinel training only if the person meets the following requirements:

1. Is a citizen of the United States;
2. Is at least 21 years of age at time of appointment;
3. Has fingerprints taken by a qualified law enforcement officer;
4. Is of good moral character;
5. Is a graduate of an accredited high school or has a high school equivalency certificate acceptable to the commission;
6. Is examined by a licensed physician who certifies, on forms prescribed by the commission, that the applicant is able to perform the duties of a school sentinel;
7. Is interviewed in person by the school board or its designee and approved by the school board to apply to the school sentinel basic training course;
8. Has received written approval to apply to the school sentinel basic training course by all local law enforcement agencies with jurisdiction over the school premises in which the individual will act as a school sentinel;
9. Has not unlawfully used any prescribed drug, controlled substance, or marijuana within one year before the time of application for training; and
10. Has a valid concealed weapons permit.

South Dakota Attorney General

Thanks, another state...

we are done fooling around out here

many rural churches and hospitals have adopted similar polices

 

[The Irish Ram]

Armed to the teeth. Make it a mandatory course before the teachers graduate from college. Require training and smart guns that no one else can use. Send students through machines, limit what can be brought into school. Lock doors. Arm guards. Tell students to become vigilant on social media... There are a lot of places to start. We seem to be rolling the dice with our children's safety.
It is a shame that we no longer teach our children to respect life, and not to kill. That went a long way in preventing these mass murders when it was being implemented. Offensive works better in these matters than defense.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Many states already allow their teachers and school staff to carry guns with them to work.....many also display signs telling the public this very fact.......and we know from research that mass shooters choose gun free zones, so getting rid of gun free zone status helps keep them away...

So....how would you go about implementing teachers, staff and parents of the children carrying their legal handguns on school grounds...this is how some schools in Texas already do it.....for the last 4 years...

Texas Sheriff Who Allows Teachers To Carry Firearms Leaves MSNBC's Jaw On The Floor

On MSNBC this weekend, Sheriff Paul Cairney of Argyle, Texas, described the process by which staff members can carry firearms in the school district. The Sheriff said that the staff at the school who choose to carry a firearm go through an intense round of interviews and training before they are allowed to carry on campus. The MSNBC host was flabbergasted at the practice and asked the Sheriff about concerns for the safety of the students in the school when there are firearms around.


The Sheriff said the practice is heavily restricted, but the “time to do nothing is over” when it comes to combating school shooters.

I wouldn't.

school staff shouldn't be armed.

Agree. If the School Board and the District agree they will need to decide who will pay for the 1) Background Checks; 2) Salary and Benefits; 3) Insurance; 4) A use of force policy; 5) The type of firearm and its cost; 6) the cost of ammunition, secure gun lockers and holsters and vests; 7) and a Supervisor, also trained as an experienced range master.

 

[jillian]

this is our method out here

School Sentinel Training Program
Law Enforcement Training provides training for all approved school sentinels. The training course for the school sentinel program consists of at least 80 hours of training in the following subject areas.

1. Firearms proficiency
2. Use of force
3. Legal aspects
4. Weapons retention
5. Identifying protocol for identifying sentinel
6. First aid

The school board may submit a person for school sentinel training only if the person meets the following requirements:

1. Is a citizen of the United States;
2. Is at least 21 years of age at time of appointment;
3. Has fingerprints taken by a qualified law enforcement officer;
4. Is of good moral character;
5. Is a graduate of an accredited high school or has a high school equivalency certificate acceptable to the commission;
6. Is examined by a licensed physician who certifies, on forms prescribed by the commission, that the applicant is able to perform the duties of a school sentinel;
7. Is interviewed in person by the school board or its designee and approved by the school board to apply to the school sentinel basic training course;
8. Has received written approval to apply to the school sentinel basic training course by all local law enforcement agencies with jurisdiction over the school premises in which the individual will act as a school sentinel;
9. Has not unlawfully used any prescribed drug, controlled substance, or marijuana within one year before the time of application for training; and
10. Has a valid concealed weapons permit.

South Dakota Attorney General

Thanks, another state...

we are done fooling around out here

many rural churches and hospitals have adopted similar polices

no. we are.

 

[MarathonMike]

Hire a guard or 2. Flooding a place/building/country with guns always leads to gun crime.

I agree we don't need to recreate the wild west on a school campus. Just a few trained and armed people always during school hours.

 

[2aguy]

Many states already allow their teachers and school staff to carry guns with them to work.....many also display signs telling the public this very fact.......and we know from research that mass shooters choose gun free zones, so getting rid of gun free zone status helps keep them away...

So....how would you go about implementing teachers, staff and parents of the children carrying their legal handguns on school grounds...this is how some schools in Texas already do it.....for the last 4 years...

Texas Sheriff Who Allows Teachers To Carry Firearms Leaves MSNBC's Jaw On The Floor

On MSNBC this weekend, Sheriff Paul Cairney of Argyle, Texas, described the process by which staff members can carry firearms in the school district. The Sheriff said that the staff at the school who choose to carry a firearm go through an intense round of interviews and training before they are allowed to carry on campus. The MSNBC host was flabbergasted at the practice and asked the Sheriff about concerns for the safety of the students in the school when there are firearms around.


The Sheriff said the practice is heavily restricted, but the “time to do nothing is over” when it comes to combating school shooters.

I wouldn't.

school staff shouldn't be armed.

Agree. If the School Board and the District agree they will need to decide who will pay for the 1) Background Checks; 2) Salary and Benefits; 3) Insurance; 4) A use of force policy; 5) The type of firearm and its cost; 6) the cost of ammunition, secure gun lockers and holsters and vests; 7) and a Supervisor, also trained as an experienced range master.

You can solve 1 because all teachers already go through a background check. 2. if you simply get rid of the gun free zone you don't have to pay anyone anything extra, 3. the school already has insurance, and by protecting students they will prevent the payouts from having students murdered by mass shooters 4. use of force policy.......easy. 5. type of firearm, I already posted..... .38 special revolver or .380 semi auto pistol. 6. cost of ammo.....might be able to get donations from the local gun stores, the teachers would keep the guns at home, not at school so no lockers, holsters...sure....vests? Why vests?

7. Use the local police range master to oversee the training....

There you go....since many states already do this, simply ask them how they do it...

 

[2aguy]

Hire a guard or 2. Flooding a place/building/country with guns always leads to gun crime.

I agree we don't need to recreate the wild west on a school campus. Just a few trained and armed people always during school hours.

The old west wasn't that violent because everyone had a gun on their hip......

 

[Wry Catcher]

Many states already allow their teachers and school staff to carry guns with them to work.....many also display signs telling the public this very fact.......and we know from research that mass shooters choose gun free zones, so getting rid of gun free zone status helps keep them away...

So....how would you go about implementing teachers, staff and parents of the children carrying their legal handguns on school grounds...this is how some schools in Texas already do it.....for the last 4 years...

Texas Sheriff Who Allows Teachers To Carry Firearms Leaves MSNBC's Jaw On The Floor

On MSNBC this weekend, Sheriff Paul Cairney of Argyle, Texas, described the process by which staff members can carry firearms in the school district. The Sheriff said that the staff at the school who choose to carry a firearm go through an intense round of interviews and training before they are allowed to carry on campus. The MSNBC host was flabbergasted at the practice and asked the Sheriff about concerns for the safety of the students in the school when there are firearms around.


The Sheriff said the practice is heavily restricted, but the “time to do nothing is over” when it comes to combating school shooters.

I wouldn't.

school staff shouldn't be armed.

Agree. If the School Board and the District agree they will need to decide who will pay for the 1) Background Checks; 2) Salary and Benefits; 3) Insurance; 4) A use of force policy; 5) The type of firearm and its cost; 6) the cost of ammunition, secure gun lockers and holsters and vests; 7) and a Supervisor, also trained as an experienced range master.

You can solve 1 because all teachers already go through a background check. 2. if you simply get rid of the gun free zone you don't have to pay anyone anything extra, 3. the school already has insurance, and by protecting students they will prevent the payouts from having students murdered by mass shooters 4. use of force policy.......easy. 5. type of firearm, I already posted..... .38 special revolver or .380 semi auto pistol. 6. cost of ammo.....might be able to get donations from the local gun stores, the teachers would keep the guns at home, not at school so no lockers, holsters...sure....vests? Why vests?



7. Use the local police range master to oversee the training....

There you go....since many states already do this, simply ask them how they do it...

I don't know what is required of an armed guard, I know they need to be licensed and vetted, but I suspect most of them could not be hired by a local police agency for one reason or another.

In my agency before anyone is able to carry a service weapon we needed to check records of the FBI, CII and all local LE agencies in the US where the applicant lived; any civil judgments such as divorces, their driving record, and they needed to pass both an oral and written psychological evaluation, pass a drug test, and a written test (to establish a civil service list) along with two and sometimes three interviews, one with outside our agency LT's or Capt's which figures in ranking for civil service test; and an in house panel of sergeants, and finally one with with division commanders. Then they can be offered a conditional appointment after interviewing at least three non relatives as references, a credit check, a medical exam and school records (academic and deportment).

Then is hired they will spend at least 6 months under the mentoring of a FTO (Field training officer).

 

[jillian]

Hire a guard or 2. Flooding a place/building/country with guns always leads to gun crime.

I agree we don't need to recreate the wild west on a school campus. Just a few trained and armed people always during school hours.

The old west wasn't that violent because everyone had a gun on their hip......

That is false. It just isn’t as bad as some imagine. It is still far more violent than today.

And people like you spend your life pretending you’d be vigilantes gunning down everyone you don’t like if only libs would get out of your way.

 

[jillian]

Hire a guard or 2. Flooding a place/building/country with guns always leads to gun crime.

I agree we don't need to recreate the wild west on a school campus. Just a few trained and armed people always during school hours.

How about we keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn’t have them?

 

[MarathonMike]

Hire a guard or 2. Flooding a place/building/country with guns always leads to gun crime.

I agree we don't need to recreate the wild west on a school campus. Just a few trained and armed people always during school hours.

The old west wasn't that violent because everyone had a gun on their hip......

If only we could weaponize smart phones. Problem solved.

 

[BlackSand]

Many states already allow their teachers and school staff to carry guns with them to work.....many also display signs telling the public this very fact.......and we know from research that mass shooters choose gun free zones, so getting rid of gun free zone status helps keep them away...

So....how would you go about implementing teachers, staff and parents of the children carrying their legal handguns on school grounds...this is how some schools in Texas already do it.....for the last 4 years...

Texas Sheriff Who Allows Teachers To Carry Firearms Leaves MSNBC's Jaw On The Floor

On MSNBC this weekend, Sheriff Paul Cairney of Argyle, Texas, described the process by which staff members can carry firearms in the school district. The Sheriff said that the staff at the school who choose to carry a firearm go through an intense round of interviews and training before they are allowed to carry on campus. The MSNBC host was flabbergasted at the practice and asked the Sheriff about concerns for the safety of the students in the school when there are firearms around.


The Sheriff said the practice is heavily restricted, but the “time to do nothing is over” when it comes to combating school shooters.

These are just a few of the programs available that facilitate civilian based Active Shooter Response Training.

FASTER Saves Lives

Active Shooter Response Training- ALICE Training

Home

NFPA to Fast-Track New Standard for Active Shooter Response -- Occupational Health & Safety

.

 

[MarathonMike]

Here is a radical idea. Maybe the solution to the school shooting problem could be a combination of better mental health services, better communication between local and federal law enforcement, better point of sale control over automatic weapons AND armed security on every school campus. Why does it have to be all or none? That is why we never get anywhere.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Hire a guard or 2. Flooding a place/building/country with guns always leads to gun crime.

I agree we don't need to recreate the wild west on a school campus. Just a few trained and armed people always during school hours.

How about we keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn’t have them?

^ said Chicago....

 

[jon_berzerk]

this is our method out here

School Sentinel Training Program
Law Enforcement Training provides training for all approved school sentinels. The training course for the school sentinel program consists of at least 80 hours of training in the following subject areas.

1. Firearms proficiency
2. Use of force
3. Legal aspects
4. Weapons retention
5. Identifying protocol for identifying sentinel
6. First aid

The school board may submit a person for school sentinel training only if the person meets the following requirements:

1. Is a citizen of the United States;
2. Is at least 21 years of age at time of appointment;
3. Has fingerprints taken by a qualified law enforcement officer;
4. Is of good moral character;
5. Is a graduate of an accredited high school or has a high school equivalency certificate acceptable to the commission;
6. Is examined by a licensed physician who certifies, on forms prescribed by the commission, that the applicant is able to perform the duties of a school sentinel;
7. Is interviewed in person by the school board or its designee and approved by the school board to apply to the school sentinel basic training course;
8. Has received written approval to apply to the school sentinel basic training course by all local law enforcement agencies with jurisdiction over the school premises in which the individual will act as a school sentinel;
9. Has not unlawfully used any prescribed drug, controlled substance, or marijuana within one year before the time of application for training; and
10. Has a valid concealed weapons permit.

South Dakota Attorney General

Thanks, another state...

we are done fooling around out here

many rural churches and hospitals have adopted similar polices

many states are done fooling around also

This school's not likely to be next target ... good guys are all packing heat and it works

 

[theDoctorisIn]

This is the CDZ. Please limit your comments to the topic of the thread, rather than other posters.

Additionally, threatening to have people banned is a pretty dumb idea.