How well does liberalism work in beloved liberal France?

[Lumpy 1]

France has almost identical productivity to the US. They have lower incomes because they work less.

Oh, and the economy of France weathered the recession better than the US.

Well.. this helped them out..

Sure. It helped us out a lot more.

My house is underwater (loan to value)...I don't feel helped but France etc. does...that's sweet...

 

[8537]

Well.. this helped them out..

Sure. It helped us out a lot more.

My house is underwater (loan to value)...I don't feel helped but France etc. does...that's sweet...

People are underwater on loans in France, too. TARP etc... actions weren't meant to help people like you, unfortunately. When I said "us" I should have been more clear: Not "us", but US banks, investment firms and wall street.

 

[California Girl]

Anyone who's actually spent any time in France would know it's no more a perfect country than ours is. They have a rising problem with minorities, horrific hate crime rates, high unemployment, and their workers are crippled by taxes. In fact, in many of these 'ideal' European countries, right wing politics are becoming increasingly popular.... possibly because their citizens are getting pissed off with the 'nanny statism' and 'welfare culture'.

 

[8537]

Anyone who's actually spent any time in France would know it's no more a perfect country than ours is. They have a rising problem with minorities, horrific hate crime rates, high unemployment, and their workers are crippled by taxes.

I don't see anyone claiming it's 'more perfect', it's just culturally different with less emphasis on production and work.

 

[California Girl]

Anyone who's actually spent any time in France would know it's no more a perfect country than ours is. They have a rising problem with minorities, horrific hate crime rates, high unemployment, and their workers are crippled by taxes.

I don't see anyone claiming it's 'more perfect', it's just culturally different with less emphasis on production and work.

Hence their high unemployment... global business don't move to France because it's not a great environment to do business.... overly powerful unions, lazy assed workers, very high taxes. Nice country to visit... but I sure as hell wouldn't want to live there.

 

[8537]

Anyone who's actually spent any time in France would know it's no more a perfect country than ours is. They have a rising problem with minorities, horrific hate crime rates, high unemployment, and their workers are crippled by taxes.

I don't see anyone claiming it's 'more perfect', it's just culturally different with less emphasis on production and work.

Hence their high unemployment... global business don't move to France because it's not a great environment to do business.... overly powerful unions, lazy assed workers, very high taxes. Nice country to visit... but I sure as hell wouldn't want to live there.

Their high unemployment?

It pretty much mirrors ours. Working less doesn't create a higher unemployment rate.

 

[Toro]

Anyone who's actually spent any time in France would know it's no more a perfect country than ours is. They have a rising problem with minorities, horrific hate crime rates, high unemployment, and their workers are crippled by taxes.

I don't see anyone claiming it's 'more perfect', it's just culturally different with less emphasis on production and work.

Hence their high unemployment... global business don't move to France because it's not a great environment to do business.... overly powerful unions, lazy assed workers, very high taxes. Nice country to visit... but I sure as hell wouldn't want to live there.

It's a country that is generally hostile to business as well.

The Sarkozy government wanted to introduce new passages into school textbooks de-emphasizing capitalism as a destructive and exploitive system. I don't know if they did it or not.

 

[Toro]

I don't see anyone claiming it's 'more perfect', it's just culturally different with less emphasis on production and work.

Hence their high unemployment... global business don't move to France because it's not a great environment to do business.... overly powerful unions, lazy assed workers, very high taxes. Nice country to visit... but I sure as hell wouldn't want to live there.

Their high unemployment?

It pretty much mirrors ours. Working less doesn't create a higher unemployment rate.

The US has generally had a much lower rate of unemployment than France. Ours is a result of the Financial Crisis. The French would argue that it is because of "Anglo-American speculative capitalism." There are a lot of rigidities in the French labour market that don't exist in the US.

It is true that the rate of productivity per worker in France is about the same as the US. That is mainly because in America, the least productive are more likely to work whereas in France, they are more likely to be on the dole. If someone isn't working and receiving support from the state, they drop out of the per worker productivity calculations. In the US, that same person will probably be working in a low productivity job, such as at a 7/11, and he is included in the per worker productivity calculation, thus lowering the overall rate in the US.

One thing that conservatives should keep in mind, there is a fair amount of correlation between education and productivity. Generally, the more educated a population, the more productive they are. That is one reason why countries such as France have such a high level of productivity, even though their labour markets are worse than in America.

 

[Political Junky]

Anyone who's actually spent any time in France would know it's no more a perfect country than ours is. They have a rising problem with minorities, horrific hate crime rates, high unemployment, and their workers are crippled by taxes. In fact, in many of these 'ideal' European countries, right wing politics are becoming increasingly popular.... possibly because their citizens are getting pissed off with the 'nanny statism' and 'welfare culture'.

And yet it's still #1, imagine that.

 

[Lumpy 1]

Anyone who's actually spent any time in France would know it's no more a perfect country than ours is. They have a rising problem with minorities, horrific hate crime rates, high unemployment, and their workers are crippled by taxes.

I don't see anyone claiming it's 'more perfect', it's just culturally different with less emphasis on production and work.

Hence their high unemployment... global business don't move to France because it's not a great environment to do business.... overly powerful unions, lazy assed workers, very high taxes. Nice country to visit... but I sure as hell wouldn't want to live there.

I'm living in France already.. we call it California....

 

[Toro]

I don't see anyone claiming it's 'more perfect', it's just culturally different with less emphasis on production and work.

Hence their high unemployment... global business don't move to France because it's not a great environment to do business.... overly powerful unions, lazy assed workers, very high taxes. Nice country to visit... but I sure as hell wouldn't want to live there.

I'm living in France already.. we call it California....

That's funny, because that's my impression too.

But it's an exaggeration of course. I went to a party several years ago in northern California. Every single person, well adult, there was not born in the US, including several from France.

 

[Political Junky]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/asia/...usa-compare-japan-disaster-vs-no-katrina.html

Funny, this OP and thread is devoted to how inferior the US is to Japan.

 

[edthecynic]

Gross National Income (per capita) by country. Definition, graph and map.

# 1 Luxembourg: $37,499.20 per person
# 2 Switzerland: $36,987.60 per person
# 3 Japan: $35,474.10 per person
# 4 Norway: $35,053.30 per person
# 5 United States: $33,070.30 per person
# 6 Denmark: $30,191.50 per person
# 7 Iceland: $27,473.80 per person
# 8 Sweden: $25,105.50 per person
# 9 United Kingdom: $24,486.70 per person
# 10 Austria: $23,824.10 per person
# 11 Netherlands: $23,770.30 per person
# 12 Belgium: $23,639.50 per person
# 13 Finland: $23,549.70 per person
# 14 Germany: $23,534.80 per person
# 15 France: $22,751.30 per person
# 16 Ireland: $21,846.50 per person
# 17 Brunei: $20,823.10 per person
# 18 Canada: $20,789.50 per person
# 19 Singapore: $20,066.00 per person
# 20 Italy: $19,276.10 per person

 

[Finnguy]

I don't see anyone claiming it's 'more perfect', it's just culturally different with less emphasis on production and work.

Hence their high unemployment... global business don't move to France because it's not a great environment to do business.... overly powerful unions, lazy assed workers, very high taxes. Nice country to visit... but I sure as hell wouldn't want to live there.

It's a country that is generally hostile to business as well.

The Sarkozy government wanted to introduce new passages into school textbooks de-emphasizing capitalism as a destructive and exploitive system. I don't know if they did it or not.

The same man who was Bush's best friend? Then Bush got all mad when Sarkozy found out how truly stupid he was.

 

[shintao]

The Bureau of Economic Analysis released finalized 2009 per-capita income rankings this week showing Arkansas was 44th with a per-capita income of $32,423, the highest ranking the state has ever had in the 50 years since the federal government began keeping the statistics.

Arkansas' income is about equal to that of France

Where is your reference for this? Sounds like pure unadulterated homogenized bull shit.

 

[Brutus]

The Bureau of Economic Analysis released finalized 2009 per-capita income rankings this week showing Arkansas was 44th with a per-capita income of $32,423, the highest ranking the state has ever had in the 50 years since the federal government began keeping the statistics.

Arkansas' income is about equal to that of France

Where is your reference for this? Sounds like pure unadulterated homogenized bull shit.

2002 2003 2005 2006 2009
Alabama $7,465 $14,899 $19,683 $23,521 $24,477 $25,128 $26,338 $29,136 $30,894 $33,096
Alaska 13,007 20,887 25,798 29,642 31,027 32,151 33,568 35,612 38,138 42,603
Arizona 8,854 16,262 20,634 24,988 25,878 26,183 26,838 30,267 31,936 32,935
Arkansas 7,113 13,779 18,546 21,995 22,750 23,512 24,289 26,874 28,473 31,946

 

[Sallow]

The Bureau of Economic Analysis released finalized 2009 per-capita income rankings this week showing Arkansas was 44th with a per-capita income of $32,423, the highest ranking the state has ever had in the 50 years since the federal government began keeping the statistics.

Arkansas' income is about equal to that of France

Another troll thread?

Ever been to France?

Ever meet any of the French?

They live longer then Americans..especially people from Arkansas. Hopefully that changes because of the new Heathcare bill and more people see doctors more frequently..like the French.

But the French have a pretty nice life style. And they've been good allies. Why they helped with the birth of this nation.

 

[8537]

Hence their high unemployment... global business don't move to France because it's not a great environment to do business.... overly powerful unions, lazy assed workers, very high taxes. Nice country to visit... but I sure as hell wouldn't want to live there.

Their high unemployment?

It pretty much mirrors ours. Working less doesn't create a higher unemployment rate.

The US has generally had a much lower rate of unemployment than France. Ours is a result of the Financial Crisis. The French would argue that it is because of "Anglo-American speculative capitalism."

Well, they'd be right about that.

There are a lot of rigidities in the French labour market that don't exist in the US.

Agreed. Whether those rigidities serve to impede or improve quality of life is an open question.

It is true that the rate of productivity per worker in France is about the same as the US. That is mainly because in America, the least productive are more likely to work whereas in France, they are more likely to be on the dole. If someone isn't working and receiving support from the state, they drop out of the per worker productivity calculations. In the US, that same person will probably be working in a low productivity job, such as at a 7/11, and he is included in the per worker productivity calculation, thus lowering the overall rate in the US.

With all due respect, I don't think that's right. France's low-wage service industry is no smaller than ours. Their labor force participation rate is a few points lower but I suspect that's because not as many women have entered the work force.

I'm not arguing that France has a better labor market than the US - clearly, they don't. what they DO have is a more liberal attitude towards the labor/leisure tradeoff. It's simply a different emphasis culturally.

 

[jeffrockit]

they get


LIBERALISM is much more than $

liberalism is ;

accepting gays into society (which America is now doing)
accepting women and minotity in military leadership roles (which America is now doing)
accepting women and minorities in political roles (which America is now doing)
changing attitudes and morals with regards to sex, divorce, marriage (which America is now doing)
a better lifestyle for the average person (which America now has)
giving more time off for FAMILIES and vacations and holidays for the average worker (which America now has.....and I really don't know why the average conservative wants people to work 7 days a week, 16 hours a day, for peanuts......I mean...you tout family values and then you force people to work so much that they can never actually see their families....)
lessesning our draconian/facist laws against pot smokers (which is slowly beginning to happen)

America, in many ways, is a very liberal country and this liberalism has worked quite well

A better lifestyle for the average person....you can't be serious???
NEW YORK (CNN) - The number of Americans who think the economy is in bad shape has risen to its highest level in two years, and gas prices may be to blame.

A recent CNN poll showed 84 percent of Americans rate the economic condition of the country as poor, which is up 9 points from January.
Poll: Americans view economy as poor - WMBFNews.com | Myrtle Beach/Florence, SC | News, Weather, Sports

The U.S. Economy Isn't Getting Better, It's Getting Worse
Taleb: The U.S. Economy Isn't Getting Better, It's Getting Worse - Seeking Alpha

The Economy; Why It’s Worse Than You Think
The Economy: Why It

If this is Liberalism, you can have it.

And for all the left's constant attack on Christians who "force their views on others", why would liberals, pushing the gay lifestyle, be any different.

 

[Brutus]

Plasmaball: America, in many ways, is a very liberal country and this liberalism has worked quite well

Brutus: actually America is the most conservative major country on earth and the most successful country in human history. This is because Jefferson gave us freedom and liberty from government, or at least more of it than any other major country.

France is very liberal in comparison and as a result has the per capita income of Arkansas, one of our poorest states. If you don't understand please feel free to ask questions. Thanks