How we know Hitler was right wing.

[bripat9643]

Here is a good survey that accounts not only for left right economics, but also Social Authoritarianism and Libertarianism.
The Political Compass - Test
Economic Left/Right: 5.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.95

That chart is bullshit because it doesn't measure anything.

You sound like a filthy negro loving Jewish transsexual

Really? Tell us what is being measured along the horizontal axis.

 

[yidnar]

the truth is Nazi Germany was a different ideology than either the right or the left .... Germans worshiped Hitler !! I am not trying to be a smart ass ,but they did !! leftists worship at the alter of someone else's conscious while the right follows their own !!

 

[Pogo]

I've told you before, Pothead, I don't have a party.

Yeah, and if you didn't have Obama's dick in your mouth, I might even believe it...

You see one available, you let me know.
For now I'll continue as a card-carrying member of the Anti-Bullshit party.

And no, don't ask, you're obviously not eligible.

Right... One of the most partisan hacks on the board is "independent..."

Don't put words in my mouth; I never accused you of being "independent". I know better.
But if anyone does I'll be there to defend the reputation you've cultivated so feverishly. Pothead.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Don't put words in my mouth; I never accused you of being "independent". I know better.
But if anyone does I'll be there to defend the reputation you've cultivated so feverishly. Pothead.

I realize that you are a demagogue, and there is rarely anything logical or factual to the slander you spew. But I'm curious, "pothead?" What is this supposed to mean?

 

[Pogo]

the truth is Nazi Germany was a different ideology than either the right or the left .... Germans worshiped Hitler !! I am not trying to be a smart ass ,but they did !! leftists worship at the alter of someone else's conscious while the right follows their own !!

They sure do. That's how it is with follower mentality.

​

Betcha can't pick just one....​

 

[westwall]

Nothing could be less relevant to history than what anyone wants.

BriPat -

Do you accept that the following leaders were right wing:

1) Antonescu

2) Pinochet

3) Argentina's Dirty Generals

4) Franco

No dipshit. They were totalitarians. The complete opposite of "right wing" which is anarchy.

Get it? Ultra left wing equals totalitarian government. Ultra right wing equals NO government.

Thats American revisionist horse shit. Do you even know where the terms right wing and left wing come from?

They come from the French Revolution. The right wing was the wing of Parliament that supported the old monarchist regime. The Left Wing comprised of Radical Democrats(not the american political party, but essentially proto-socialists like Robespierre). The center was comprised of more moderate republicans(similar to American founders).

Anarchy was initially a left wing movement that wished to abolish all property by removing the state which they believe enforced property laws. Different schools of Anarchy have developed overtime, but saying anarchy is right wing is being totally ignorant of all the factions within anarchy.

Franco opposed democracy, and believed his military regime would be a transition period back to traditional monarchy(with his death he transferred power to the King). He was most certainly right wing, as was Pinochet(supported free markets, private property, hierarchy, military rule etc). I don't know much about the Argentine generals or Antonescu though.

Yes, I am fully aware of its origins. However, as time has passed so have the definitions so I am using the CURRENT definition. Saigon and his ilk foist off the Fabian Socialist BS that fascism and communism are opposite extremes. They ARE THE SAME. That is my point. One side of the teeter totter is no governemnt, the other side of the teeter totter is absolute government.

Understand now.....

 

[Pogo]

the truth is Nazi Germany was a different ideology than either the right or the left .... Germans worshiped Hitler !! I am not trying to be a smart ass ,but they did !! leftists worship at the alter of someone else's conscious while the right follows their own !!

They sure do. That's how it is with follower mentality.

​

Betcha can't pick just one....​

So you don't support Obama right?​

... on what?

Did I miss something or isn't this thread about Hitler?​

 

[westwall]

didn't the state have control over businesses in Nazi Germany ??

100% control.

The entire board of BMW were "dismissed" and replaced by Nazi stooges. Actually, 6 of them were shot... Yet to most leftists, this was a "capitalist" venture.

Hitler controlled the means of production. Not that he gave a shit.

That's why German production was so awful. Throughout the entirety of the war they produced 18,000 tanks of all types. We produced 55,000 Shermans alone. Early on they could have matched British production and won the Battle of Britain but, because the industry was run by stooges they couldn't match British production so they lost.

Soviet production was likewise hampered by central control of industry. If we hadn't given them 600,000 trucks, that basically mobilised their entire army, they too would have been fought to a standstill even though they outnumbered the German forces by over three to one.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The German Reich would have obliterated the United States and the Western Allies in one day on June 6, 1944 if they didn't have to deal with the Soviets on the Eastern Front. Hell, if Hitler listened to his Generals and annihilated the British Army at Dunkirk he could have forced surrender in 1940 before American entry into the war.

The idea of American military superiority during WW2 is laughable at best.

Ah, revisionist bullshit - how quaint.

 

[westwall]

Here is a good survey that accounts not only for left right economics, but also Social Authoritarianism and Libertarianism.
The Political Compass - Test
Economic Left/Right: 5.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.95

That chart is bullshit because it doesn't measure anything.

You sound like a filthy negro loving Jewish transsexual

He is correct however, the survey is very poorly written and the questions do not accurately reflect political reality. I come out very minor left center and very libertarian
which is sorta true (I'm actually more individualistic than they measure) however they think Mandela is just a little more authoritarian than I am which is pretty silly.

 

[westwall]

Thats American revisionist horse shit. Do you even know where the terms right wing and left wing come from?

They come from the French Revolution. The right wing was the wing of Parliament that supported the old monarchist regime. The Left Wing comprised of Radical Democrats(not the american political party, but essentially proto-socialists like Robespierre). The center was comprised of more moderate republicans(similar to American founders).

Anarchy was initially a left wing movement that wished to abolish all property by removing the state which they believe enforced property laws. Different schools of Anarchy have developed overtime, but saying anarchy is right wing is being totally ignorant of all the factions within anarchy.

Franco opposed democracy, and believed his military regime would be a transition period back to traditional monarchy(with his death he transferred power to the King). He was most certainly right wing, as was Pinochet(supported free markets, private property, hierarchy, military rule etc). I don't know much about the Argentine generals or Antonescu though.

Yes, I am fully aware of its origins. However, as time has passed so have the definitions so I am using the CURRENT definition. Saigon and his ilk foist off the Fabian Socialist BS that fascism and communism are opposite extremes. They ARE THE SAME. That is my point. One side of the teeter totter is no governemnt, the other side of the teeter totter is absolute government.

Understand now.....

They aren't the same at all. One wishes to abolish property and the state all together, the other wishes to preserve those institutions by maintaining strict hierarchy of nature. Fascists were the only ones to take the fight directly to the Communists and try to eliminate them all together.

In the life of the individual how are they different? They are minor shades gray but if you are a civilian your life is equally screwed. The State has ultimate power over you. You exist for the benfit of the State and in war you are expected to die for your country.

So yes, ultimately they ARE basically the same.

 

[Pogo]

So you don't support Obama right?

... on what?

Did I miss something or isn't this thread about Hitler?

Did you vote for the chocolate face or not?

No, I've never voted for a face. Again this thread is about Hitler and the political spectrum, so it's irrelevant. And your original question was "support", not "vote".

By way of introduction, I rarely opine directly on the merits of political issues or politicians, who I consider a lower life form. I go after bad logic. I practice in the areas of strawmen, red herrings, blanket statements, you know, the top forty. That's why I salivated at Yidyap's strawman. And that's why I'm in this thread.

Nimrods like Unsensical ("Pothead" because everybody that doesn't fall down and grovel at his points becomes "Pol Pot") like to put words in people's mouths they've never said or indicated. Consider the source.

 

[westwall]

The German Reich would have obliterated the United States and the Western Allies in one day on June 6, 1944 if they didn't have to deal with the Soviets on the Eastern Front. Hell, if Hitler listened to his Generals and annihilated the British Army at Dunkirk he could have forced surrender in 1940 before American entry into the war.

The idea of American military superiority during WW2 is laughable at best.

Ummmmm, no they couldn't. The best that Hitler could hope for by D-Day was stalemate.
A good friend of mine was 5th Fallschirmjaeger Regiment and he was captured at Anzio. I asked him when he knew the war was lost and he told me when he was landed in Tripoli,
after an unescorted trip accross the Med, and he saw more than 10 kilometers of fuel waiting to be shipped accross to Italy, that's when he knew the war was lost.

As he said "we had never seen that much supply...ever...Americans drove EVERYWHERE...
they rarely walked."

 

[westwall]

They aren't the same at all. One wishes to abolish property and the state all together, the other wishes to preserve those institutions by maintaining strict hierarchy of nature. Fascists were the only ones to take the fight directly to the Communists and try to eliminate them all together.

In the life of the individual how are they different? They are minor shades gray but if you are a civilian your life is equally screwed. The State has ultimate power over you. You exist for the benfit of the State and in war you are expected to die for your country.

So yes, ultimately they ARE basically the same.

Are nationalism vs.internationalism, property or no property, retaining a higher level of your income minor issues to you? They aren't too most.

I suggest you speak with people who lived under both systems as I have. There was so little difference between the two that what there was basically is lip service. Both the USSR and the Germans were nationalistic (Fatherland, Motherland).

In the USSR the people owned nothing...they basically belonged to the State and could be used how the State saw fit, in Germany, yes, you could "own" property but the State told you how much to produce, how to produce it, Where to get your supply from, who to sell it to and for how much....so if you wish to consider that "ownership" feel free.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Uh no, it isn't revisionism, it is just a fact that 84% of German deaths came in fighting on the eastern front.
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It is just a fact that all of Hitler's crack troops and elite Waffen SS units were deployed to the Eastern Front and remained their until the war's end.

Take your Americanist flag waving bullshit elsewhere, the Soviets won the war for the Allies and Hitler's incompetence forced him into a two front war he couldn't win.

It in fact is revisionism.

The Russians threw large amounts of bodies at the Nazis. But were far from an effective fighting machine.

Where the overwhelmed with numbers, the Americans (with Canadian and Australian help) proved to be far more effective tactically and strategically. The Germans had lost Naval superiority to the Allies long before D-Day. They were defeated in North Africa, which was crucial to their war effort as the source of fuel. Without the Soviets to tie them up, the conflict would have stretched on for many more years. On the other hand, without lend lease, the Soviets would have fallen, they nearly did despite the help of the Americans.

What was the kill ratio of Russian to German? 17 to 1? And What was it in regard to American to German? .6 to 1? The Soviets lost 11 MILLION soldiers. The USA a scant 416,000. Despite attempts to recast history in a more favorable light toward the Communists, America emerged as the preeminent fighting force in the world.

 

[westwall]

The German Reich would have obliterated the United States and the Western Allies in one day on June 6, 1944 if they didn't have to deal with the Soviets on the Eastern Front. Hell, if Hitler listened to his Generals and annihilated the British Army at Dunkirk he could have forced surrender in 1940 before American entry into the war.

The idea of American military superiority during WW2 is laughable at best.

Ummmmm, no they couldn't. The best that Hitler could hope for by D-Day was stalemate.
A good friend of mine was 5th Fallschirmjaeger Regiment and he was captured at Anzio. I asked him when he knew the war was lost and he told me when he was landed in Tripoli,
after an unescorted trip accross the Med, and he saw more than 10 kilometers of fuel waiting to be shipped accross to Italy, that's when he knew the war was lost.

As he said "we had never seen that much supply...ever...Americans drove EVERYWHERE...
they rarely walked."

Key phrase, without a war on the Eastern Front. I feel bad for your friend, the wrong side won that war.

By the time the US landed in Sicily German survival in the East was no longer possible. Partly thanks to Hitler but mainly to the OKW which grossly over estimated its abilities and the abilities of its army.

They arrogantly looked at a map and said "yes, that A-A line looks good...that will give us enough Lebensraum." Take a look at what the A-A line was and then come back and tell us that the OKW had a clue.

 

[westwall]

Are nationalism vs.internationalism, property or no property, retaining a higher level of your income minor issues to you? They aren't too most.

I suggest you speak with people who lived under both systems as I have. There was so little difference between the two that what there was basically is lip service. Both the USSR and the Germans were nationalistic (Fatherland, Motherland).

In the USSR the people owned nothing...they basically belonged to the State and could be used how the State saw fit, in Germany, yes, you could "own" property but the State told you how much to produce, how to produce it, Where to get your supply from, who to sell it to and for how much....so if you wish to consider that "ownership" feel free.

Well, then they are idiots who don't understand the differences between two ideologies, sorry, I mean most people are idiots anyways, so it doesn't surprise me. the German Reich wished to regain the borders it had pre-WWI, and incorporate all ethnic Germans(in majority ethnic German areas into one nation whereas the USSR under wished to expand Communism not only throughout Eastern Europe, but the world, and force several different ethnic groups into their control under one State.

I suggest you look up the A-A line, and then come back and tell us how the Dritte Reich wasn't interested in expansion

 

[Uncensored2008]

No, I've never voted for a face. Again this thread is about Hitler and the political spectrum, so it's irrelevant. And your original question was "support", not "vote".

By way of introduction, I rarely opine directly on the merits of political issues or politicians, who I consider a lower life form. I go after bad logic. I practice in the areas of strawmen, red herrings, blanket statements, you know, the top forty. That's why I salivated at Yidyap's strawman. And that's why I'm in this thread.

Nimrods like Unsensical ("Pothead" because everybody that doesn't fall down and grovel at his points becomes "Pol Pot") like to put words in people's mouths they've never said or indicated. Consider the source.

I think he was asking you how many times your voted for your little tin god in the last election? More than a dozen?

 

[Uncensored2008]

So let me just clarify. You are saying that if their was no war in the East, and if Hitler did eliminate the British at Dunkirk, that they would have beaten the Axis Forces? I want to make sure I am getting this right.

Speculation is just that. BUT there was no option to "eliminate" the British. Britain had a far larger force than was stationed in France. The Nazis pressed their advantage for all it was worth, but lacked the naval forces to do more than punish the Brits by force a retreat. There was never a chance that Hitler could actually defeat them

BTW, I am not trying to be favorable towards the Communists at all, I don't support Communism. I wish the Axis Forces routed the Communists, which they might have been able to do without the Americans and British getting involved. The wrong side won the war, is basically what I am saying.

The Reich was an abominable nation. There is no reality where their success could be a good thing. That the Soviets were equally reprehensible does nothing to mitigate the horror that was Hitler's Reich.

Had the Allies stayed out of it, perhaps the Soviets and Nazis would have destroyed each other, leaving a better world all around. But the war in Europe was already underway by the time Hitler betrayed his Ally Stalin.

 

[westwall]

Well, then they are idiots who don't understand the differences between two ideologies, sorry, I mean most people are idiots anyways, so it doesn't surprise me. the German Reich wished to regain the borders it had pre-WWI, and incorporate all ethnic Germans(in majority ethnic German areas into one nation whereas the USSR under wished to expand Communism not only throughout Eastern Europe, but the world, and force several different ethnic groups into their control under one State.

I suggest you look up the A-A line, and then come back and tell us how the Dritte Reich wasn't interested in expansion

He was only interested in expanding into areas that used to be part of Germany prior to World War one. So of course he was interested in expanding, but not to the level communists and American apologists suggest.

So, tell me...when did the Germans live in Archangel...or Astrakhan? or anywhere along that line? Hmmmm?