How to solve the Health Care delimma.......

[MajikMyst]

Insurance company survive on the slimmest of margins.

OMG!!! The insurance companies survive on the slimmest of margins?? ROFL!!! The CEO of United health Care, the largest health insurance provider in the US. makes $!02,000 an hour!! Yes you read that right.. $102,000 that is one hundred and two THOUSAND dollars an hour.. How is that for a slim margin eh? You better check your facts before you post something like that... Most insurance companies have a higher profit margin that a casino.. Making about 30 cents on the dollar.. Casinos average about 25 cents on the dollar..

 

[MajikMyst]

My point is that the Federal government has a less than stellar (abysmal would not be too strong a term) record for solving social problems.
Alcohol causes drunkenness and Violence. Attempted solution - Prohibition. Result - even more violence with no apparent reduction in drunkenness.
Elderly have little money on retiring. Proposed solution - Social security. Result - any elderly relying on the SS check is quickly disabused of the notion they get adequate money.
Poor Children are hungry. Proposed Solution - Welfare. Result - Massive taxes and Poor children are hungry.
Feel free to disagree with this record, but it is fairly clear to me.

So what are we to do? Truthfully, a national exercise program would probably be both less expensive and MORE effective than anything else. Except for all those who would decry it as an infringement on their rights. Though I wonder why the taxes to support a federal health care plan are not decried by those very people as equally infringing on the rights of workers to keep their wages? The question then becomes; since someone will have their rights infringed upon, why not try the more effective less expensive alternative?

So?? The government has less that stellar record solving social issues?? Hmmm?? Can you qualifiy that please? It seems to me that conservatives have always been the problem. They even took us to war over the social issue of slavery! A large social issue that the government did a stellar job of solving.. Conservative simply didn't like it.. It was liberals that passed Social security and it works just fine as long as we can keep conservative spending out of it's coffers.. Medicare was also passed by liberals and also works very well and everyone over the age of 65 loves it and is glad to have it.. Not again if we can juse keep conservatives from ruining it..

You enjoy your excercise program and when a patient that needs a valve replacement due to a birth defect dies.. You can explain to his parents why your solution for him was to take a lap..

The bottom line here is we need a public option.. We need universal health care.. That is the only way.. And I am sorry to say that it might mean the CEO of United health care won't make his $102,000 dollars an hour anymore..

An excercise program? Wow.. I don't think Rush limbaugh can come close to that one.. That was good!!

 

[Charles Stucker]

So?? The government has less that stellar record solving social issues?? Hmmm?? Can you qualifiy that please? It seems to me that conservatives have always been the problem. They even took us to war over the social issue of slavery! A large social issue that the government did a stellar job of solving.. Conservative simply didn't like it.. It was liberals that passed Social security and it works just fine as long as we can keep conservative spending out of it's coffers.. Medicare was also passed by liberals and also works very well and everyone over the age of 65 loves it and is glad to have it.

Slavery - what? You do realize the government "liberators" of the slaves did such a wonderful job that, at the low cost of half a million dead, it only took another ninety years and boycotts organized by private citizens (you go MLK) to begin to effect social equality. Sharecropping was just another form of slavery.

Strangely Medicare IS a problem for people over 65 that I know. A retired teacher needed a mastectomy and radiation therapy and only avoided ruinous out of pocket expenses because she had not one but TWO supplemental insurance policies. And she still paid enough that it forced her, a very frugal survivor of the great depression, to economize other aspects of her life. A retired mechanic/machinist fell and broke his hip. A quack doctor seeking to milk medicare prescribed an antibiotic with lethal results. An antibiotic with warnings against using it for the elderly (he was 82), patients with serious injuries, or those with heart problems (he had a pacemaker) - sure not a good track record for government medicine.

 

[ABikerSailor]

To tell the truth, there was a lot of problems that happened during the decade of greed of the '80's. People were on the lookout for massive settlements for the slightest infringement of ANYTHING, and medical care was a cash pinata.

Then........doctors got scared to practice, so healthcare costs went sky high. We also became pc around this time, and calling someone "fat" wasn't tolerated.

So........with people saying that you have to be pc and you can't force kids to do something that the parents would not approve of (dodgeball, tag, because it screws with their self esteem), as well as being terrified of lawsuits from greedy parents looking for a lawsuit, they took out physical education.

Shit........when I was growing up, I'd won several President's Awards for exercise, as well as had P.E. every year of school, up through Jr. High.

I'm 45, have a 29 inch waist, weigh 140 and can run a mile and a half in around 12 min.

What you do as a child will result in how your body will act as an adult. Kick start your metabolism early with a good amount of exercise, then you can keep that going for the rest of your life.

Those are the reasons our kids are fat, as well as part of the reason that they have health problems, they don't exercise enough and eat lots of crap.

Did you know that a person can manage diabetes without medication a lot of the time just by watching their diet and exercising? Cut out the drain on the medical system due to diabetes (i.e. healthy eating and exercise), you can make lots of other things more affordable.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

You know.....when I retired in 2002, I decided that I was going to do whatever the hell I wanted to, work when I wanted to, and basically be retired.

Consequently, I watch an OBSCENE amount of news. I watch CNN, MSNBC, FOX (when I want to laugh), BBC America, the Debka File, as well as various internet sources (Google, Yahoo).

So.......I hear a lot of the bitching from both sides.

Now, the Dems want a public option. Something that anyone can get, and it's cheap.

The Reps are worried that the insurance companies won't be able to stay solvent, as they don't want to insure people with "pre-existing conditions", as that would cost a lot of money.

So, I thought.......why not make it like car insurance? That way, you could still have your choice, and you would be able to pick and choose your doctors (Reps), as well as have a low cost option for those that are poor and middle class (Dems).

Now.........just like before you get car insurance, they run your driving record. Same deal here.......before going to get health insurance, you get a complete physical, and that is your starting point. Oh yeah.........you can't be turned down for a pre-existing condition, but, if you are, then you should be able to fall under the Government option (Medicare/Medicaid) if you are unable to be insured. Kinda like welfare.

Just like car insurance (at least some), if you don't have a wreck, and don't get many tickets, your insurance rates go down, but you still have the same coverage.

Every time you renew your health insurance (like you do for your car), you get another physical. If you are going downhill (smoking too much, obesity, etc), your rates go up accordingly. If you are the same, your rates stay the same. If you start a better lifestyle (losing weight, working out, exercising, etc.), then your rates go DOWN.

There is another side benefit incidentally.........what if you live in a place that has been contaminated like Love Canal? Well......the people who live there would eventually get tired of paying high insurance rates, and they would mobilize the city government to clean up the mess, resulting in lower health insurance rates for the entire town.

Or........they could move to a healthier area.

Would also eliminate the need for a "sin tax" on stuff like soda and fast food.

What do you guys (and ladies) think?

The problem with penalizing peop-le's behaviour when it comes to access to medical treatment is an ethical and moral one. Beans counting like this is why most people abhor the ethics and morality of medical insurance companies. Health is not commodity.

We've commodified water (see international water resource cases). What's next air and heath?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

To tell the truth, there was a lot of problems that happened during the decade of greed of the '80's. People were on the lookout for massive settlements for the slightest infringement of ANYTHING, and medical care was a cash pinata.

Then........doctors got scared to practice, so healthcare costs went sky high. We also became pc around this time, and calling someone "fat" wasn't tolerated.

So........with people saying that you have to be pc and you can't force kids to do something that the parents would not approve of (dodgeball, tag, because it screws with their self esteem), as well as being terrified of lawsuits from greedy parents looking for a lawsuit, they took out physical education.

Shit........when I was growing up, I'd won several President's Awards for exercise, as well as had P.E. every year of school, up through Jr. High.

I'm 45, have a 29 inch waist, weigh 140 and can run a mile and a half in around 12 min.

What you do as a child will result in how your body will act as an adult. Kick start your metabolism early with a good amount of exercise, then you can keep that going for the rest of your life.

Those are the reasons our kids are fat, as well as part of the reason that they have health problems, they don't exercise enough and eat lots of crap.

Did you know that a person can manage diabetes without medication a lot of the time just by watching their diet and exercising? Cut out the drain on the medical system due to diabetes (i.e. healthy eating and exercise), you can make lots of other things more affordable.

"I'm 45, have a 29 inch waist, weigh 140 and can run a mile and a half in around 12 min.
" - that is so gaaaaaay.

Did you watch lots of infomercials about physical fitness?

 

[ABikerSailor]

If your health insurance company drops you because of your bad lifestyle, then you would come up under the government option Medicare/Medicaid, so you would not be out of health care.

However..........instead of having Cadillac insurance, now you've got a Yugo.

But, it was your own fault, based on your lifestyle.

 

[ABikerSailor]

To tell the truth, there was a lot of problems that happened during the decade of greed of the '80's. People were on the lookout for massive settlements for the slightest infringement of ANYTHING, and medical care was a cash pinata.

Then........doctors got scared to practice, so healthcare costs went sky high. We also became pc around this time, and calling someone "fat" wasn't tolerated.

So........with people saying that you have to be pc and you can't force kids to do something that the parents would not approve of (dodgeball, tag, because it screws with their self esteem), as well as being terrified of lawsuits from greedy parents looking for a lawsuit, they took out physical education.

Shit........when I was growing up, I'd won several President's Awards for exercise, as well as had P.E. every year of school, up through Jr. High.

I'm 45, have a 29 inch waist, weigh 140 and can run a mile and a half in around 12 min.

What you do as a child will result in how your body will act as an adult. Kick start your metabolism early with a good amount of exercise, then you can keep that going for the rest of your life.

Those are the reasons our kids are fat, as well as part of the reason that they have health problems, they don't exercise enough and eat lots of crap.

Did you know that a person can manage diabetes without medication a lot of the time just by watching their diet and exercising? Cut out the drain on the medical system due to diabetes (i.e. healthy eating and exercise), you can make lots of other things more affordable.

"I'm 45, have a 29 inch waist, weigh 140 and can run a mile and a half in around 12 min.
" - that is so gaaaaaay.

Did you watch lots of infomercials about physical fitness?

Watch lots of infomercials? Nope........I WAS the infomercial. Was a Physical Fitness Coordinator for several commands, over the course of the last 8 years of my career.

Might have had something to do with the fact that I rode a bicycle 25-100 miles/day.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

If your health insurance company drops you because of your bad lifestyle, then you would come up under the government option Medicare/Medicaid, so you would not be out of health care.

However..........instead of having Cadillac insurance, now you've got a Yugo.

But, it was your own fault, based on your lifestyle.

the public option is a great idea. right now being on medicare/medicaid/co-insurance is the best insurance around.

most idiots say they love the insurance they have never having had to try to enforce the policy holder to pay for something other than annual visits or quartely GP visits.

but your idea is a good one. is it your idea alone?

 

[ABikerSailor]

If your health insurance company drops you because of your bad lifestyle, then you would come up under the government option Medicare/Medicaid, so you would not be out of health care.

However..........instead of having Cadillac insurance, now you've got a Yugo.

But, it was your own fault, based on your lifestyle.

the public option is a great idea. right now being on medicare/medicaid/co-insurance is the best insurance around.

most idiots say they love the insurance they have never having had to try to enforce the policy holder to pay for something other than annual visits or quartely GP visits.

but your idea is a good one. is it your idea alone?

Don't know if I could say that it's my idea alone. I've discussed this quite a bit with my room mate (who is a surgical secretary), as well as have gotten a few ideas while posting here on USMB.

Oh yeah.........because I'm retired and can pretty much do what I want? I watch an OBSCENE amount of news. MSNBC, BBC, CNN, and on occasion (when I want to laugh) FAUX News.

However.........yes it is my idea in the sense that I put all the little threads together that I'd seen others pull out for examination.

But............if it would help and get the politicians to finally get things working, shit......I'm a citizen.........they can have it, just give credit to where they first saw it.

 

[MajikMyst]

So?? The government has less that stellar record solving social issues?? Hmmm?? Can you qualifiy that please? It seems to me that conservatives have always been the problem. They even took us to war over the social issue of slavery! A large social issue that the government did a stellar job of solving.. Conservative simply didn't like it.. It was liberals that passed Social security and it works just fine as long as we can keep conservative spending out of it's coffers.. Medicare was also passed by liberals and also works very well and everyone over the age of 65 loves it and is glad to have it.

Slavery - what? You do realize the government "liberators" of the slaves did such a wonderful job that, at the low cost of half a million dead, it only took another ninety years and boycotts organized by private citizens (you go MLK) to begin to effect social equality. Sharecropping was just another form of slavery.

Strangely Medicare IS a problem for people over 65 that I know. A retired teacher needed a mastectomy and radiation therapy and only avoided ruinous out of pocket expenses because she had not one but TWO supplemental insurance policies. And she still paid enough that it forced her, a very frugal survivor of the great depression, to economize other aspects of her life. A retired mechanic/machinist fell and broke his hip. A quack doctor seeking to milk medicare prescribed an antibiotic with lethal results. An antibiotic with warnings against using it for the elderly (he was 82), patients with serious injuries, or those with heart problems (he had a pacemaker) - sure not a good track record for government medicine.

Half a million dead cause as usual conservatives were on the wrong side of an arguement.. Despite the fact that laws were passed and the Supreme court ruled.. Conservative slave owners refused to release their slaves and took it to war. Hardly the fault of the government.. You want another history lesson or do you really just like blaming the government for all that is bad in the world??

Medicare is doing just fine and your little story about a teacher is a crock and also shows that you simply don't know how medicare works! Let me know when you research that one and figure it out.. Numerous polls show that the approval rating for Medicare is consistantly in the 70's to low 80's.. Strangly enough, canadians love their healthcare as well.. Over 90% approval rating there..

Here is a little hint for you.. By law, doctors and hospitals are required to take what medicare pays and not charge any more than the payment recieved.. Where supplemental comes in is when medicare doesn't cover a service.. For instance long term care, or perscriptions.. Supplemental only covers what medicare doesn't.. It isn't an issue of a procedure costs 2 million, medicare pays all but 600 thousand and supplemental pays another 200 thousand, and the patient is left with another 200 thousand due.. That is not how it works.. So again your story is a crock and you have yet to show what is wrong with our government..

But hey! How bout this one?? You call yourself a patriot and then say that our government sucks!! That is really patriotic!! I never understood that about you republicans.. You all have your pick up trucks with your wind American flags waving in the breeze.. Go by your house and you probably haved a huge flag in your yard! You think that makes you a patriot? Not hardly! Try comming up with a solution based on real facts and information instead if sitting back and saying that we can't do anything, the government sucks..

If you are an american then you are for what is best for the PEOPLE of this nation and not the insurance companies.. It also means you don't listen to their drivel and whining as they have every reason to lie to you! They stand to lose everything! What do the people stand to lose? Well? 42 thousand of them die each year because of the insurance companies.. How bout your patriotic self think about them and how we can prevent it?

 

[Charles Stucker]

Half a million dead cause as usual conservatives were on the wrong side of an arguement.. Despite the fact that laws were passed and the Supreme court ruled.. Conservative slave owners refused to release their slaves and took it to war. Hardly the fault of the government.. You want another history lesson or do you really just like blaming the government for all that is bad in the world??

Medicare is doing just fine and your little story about a teacher is a crock

History? From someone who has posted something this uninformed? Forgive me if I doubt it would be even remotely accurate.
Timeline - Lincoln Elected Then Several States Secede, then Lincoln calls for an armed response to crush the "rebels", Then even more states secede because they refuse to support a war of aggression against their neighbors, then several battles are fought and lost by the Union, eventually the Union wins a battle (Antietam/Sharpsburg), and then Lincoln issues his emancipation proclamation to garner moral support in Europe, then a constitutional amendment is passed outlawing slavery.

So if you can follow the timeline it becomes clear that the group you label "conservatives" did not "Go to War to keep their slaves" (all the lives lost were due to Lincoln's unwillingness to allow the states to exercise their constitutional rights) so your entire line of reasoning - that Big Government "Freed the Blacks from Misery" and hence did not fail at it - falls apart.

You have confused Medicare with Medicaid.
Elderly can all qualify for Medicare, but it does not pay everything.
Medicaid will pay for everything but requires the recipient to be indigent. Wait sorry for using such a big word - Medicaid can only be used by people who own nothing. No Car, no House, no savings from a life of frugality and hard work.
The teacher I wrote about has a car, a house, and savings, though that last continually dwindles from a fixed income matched against rising food costs and taxes - especially property taxes. Thus she cannot qualify for Medicaid, though I suppose that you believe she should go ahead and give up everything to let Big Brother care for her. Because YOU tell her what a good job they have done for her.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.