How The COVID Relief Bill Turned Into A Climate Change Bill

[Synthaholic]

Remember 'Solyndra'

I remember Solyndra. Republicans sabotaged it while China was throwing money at their solar startups, getting to mass solar manufacturing years ahead of the U.S.

And now we won't catch up. An entire industry GIVEN to China by Republicans.

You are a moron...

Overhauling the entire electric grid, which some call the world’s largest machine, and converting much of it to wind and solar power, is not just a momentous task. It is both dangerous and unbelievably expensive. The only reason Biden has been able to get away with such a preposterous plan is that many people actually believe that wind and solar power are cheaper than fossil fuel-powered generation. They conclude that a transition to a system supplied by wind and solar power will reduce consumer costs. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Instead of blindly accepting the Biden/Sanders energy fantasy, the public should ask the obvious question: “If wind and solar are so cheap, then why do they still need direct and indirect subsidies?”
---
Other problems are the need for inertia (flywheel effect) that is required to stabilize the system frequency and for voltage support to stop the lights going dim. Both of these are provided by conventional generators but not by wind and solar power.

For various reasons, 1,000 kilowatts (kW) of wind or solar power seldom produces more than 800 kW.

On average, wind produces about one-third of its theoretical energy output (measured in kilowatt-hours – kWh) and solar power less than one-sixth.

As a result, much more installed capacity plus energy storage facilities are needed to match the output of a conventional 1,000 kW station. It is the cost of this extra capacity and energy storage that kills the economics of wind and solar power.

One way of establishing the real cost of wind and solar power is to compare the cost of supplying all the electricity needed by a system with no connections to other power systems. Let’s consider the cost of supplying all the electricity needed by a power system with a peak demand of 4,000 megawatts (MW) and an energy demand of 19,000 gigawatt-hours (GWh), which is typical of most power systems.


We start by assuming that five days of storage would be needed to cover a series of cloudy days in winter or five days of little wind. So, we need to calculate the costs associated with storage by batteries or by hydro-pumped storage (in which excess power is used to pump water into a reservoir which then drains through hydraulic turbines producing electricity when the primary system lacks sufficient power to supply the grid). One then discovers that the solar power option would need 16,000 MW of solar capacity + 9,000 MW of battery capacity and the all-in cost would be 38 US¢/kWh.

The wind power option would need 7,000 MW of wind and 2,250 MW of storage capacity to give a final cost of 34¢/kWh.

For comparison, the typical North American cost for combined-cycle natural gas generation is 5¢/kWh.

Biden’s Energy Plans Are Expensive—and Dangerous

pjmedia.com

~~~~~~

Toyota CEO Agrees With Elon Musk: We Don't Have Enough Electricity to Electrify All the Cars

pjmedia.com

Not a single word refuting what I said about Solyndra.

You lose, loser.

 

[Doc7505]

Remember 'Solyndra'

I remember Solyndra. Republicans sabotaged it while China was throwing money at their solar startups, getting to mass solar manufacturing years ahead of the U.S.

And now we won't catch up. An entire industry GIVEN to China by Republicans.

You are a moron...

Overhauling the entire electric grid, which some call the world’s largest machine, and converting much of it to wind and solar power, is not just a momentous task. It is both dangerous and unbelievably expensive. The only reason Biden has been able to get away with such a preposterous plan is that many people actually believe that wind and solar power are cheaper than fossil fuel-powered generation. They conclude that a transition to a system supplied by wind and solar power will reduce consumer costs. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Instead of blindly accepting the Biden/Sanders energy fantasy, the public should ask the obvious question: “If wind and solar are so cheap, then why do they still need direct and indirect subsidies?”
---
Other problems are the need for inertia (flywheel effect) that is required to stabilize the system frequency and for voltage support to stop the lights going dim. Both of these are provided by conventional generators but not by wind and solar power.

For various reasons, 1,000 kilowatts (kW) of wind or solar power seldom produces more than 800 kW.

On average, wind produces about one-third of its theoretical energy output (measured in kilowatt-hours – kWh) and solar power less than one-sixth.

As a result, much more installed capacity plus energy storage facilities are needed to match the output of a conventional 1,000 kW station. It is the cost of this extra capacity and energy storage that kills the economics of wind and solar power.

One way of establishing the real cost of wind and solar power is to compare the cost of supplying all the electricity needed by a system with no connections to other power systems. Let’s consider the cost of supplying all the electricity needed by a power system with a peak demand of 4,000 megawatts (MW) and an energy demand of 19,000 gigawatt-hours (GWh), which is typical of most power systems.


We start by assuming that five days of storage would be needed to cover a series of cloudy days in winter or five days of little wind. So, we need to calculate the costs associated with storage by batteries or by hydro-pumped storage (in which excess power is used to pump water into a reservoir which then drains through hydraulic turbines producing electricity when the primary system lacks sufficient power to supply the grid). One then discovers that the solar power option would need 16,000 MW of solar capacity + 9,000 MW of battery capacity and the all-in cost would be 38 US¢/kWh.

The wind power option would need 7,000 MW of wind and 2,250 MW of storage capacity to give a final cost of 34¢/kWh.

For comparison, the typical North American cost for combined-cycle natural gas generation is 5¢/kWh.

Biden’s Energy Plans Are Expensive—and Dangerous

pjmedia.com

~~~~~~

Toyota CEO Agrees With Elon Musk: We Don't Have Enough Electricity to Electrify All the Cars

pjmedia.com

Not a single word refuting what I said about Solyndra.

You lose, loser.

~~~~~~

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/specialreports/solyndra-scandal/

 

[hadit]

Another Pork Filled make believe Stimulus.

Yeah, what does tax deductions for 3-Martini lunches have to do with COVID-19?

Oh, you left that out of your little whiny rant?

A bare-bones, stripped down bill focused solely on COVID relief would have cost a lot less and had no serious opposition. IOW, something that could never happen. democrats gotta be democrats.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Not a single word refuting what I said about Solyndra.

No proof behind a single claim you made about Solyndra.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Remember 'Solyndra'

I remember Solyndra. Republicans sabotaged it while China was throwing money at their solar startups, getting to mass solar manufacturing years ahead of the U.S.

And now we won't catch up. An entire industry GIVEN to China by Republicans.

You are a moron...

Overhauling the entire electric grid, which some call the world’s largest machine, and converting much of it to wind and solar power, is not just a momentous task. It is both dangerous and unbelievably expensive. The only reason Biden has been able to get away with such a preposterous plan is that many people actually believe that wind and solar power are cheaper than fossil fuel-powered generation. They conclude that a transition to a system supplied by wind and solar power will reduce consumer costs. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Instead of blindly accepting the Biden/Sanders energy fantasy, the public should ask the obvious question: “If wind and solar are so cheap, then why do they still need direct and indirect subsidies?”
---
Other problems are the need for inertia (flywheel effect) that is required to stabilize the system frequency and for voltage support to stop the lights going dim. Both of these are provided by conventional generators but not by wind and solar power.

For various reasons, 1,000 kilowatts (kW) of wind or solar power seldom produces more than 800 kW.

On average, wind produces about one-third of its theoretical energy output (measured in kilowatt-hours – kWh) and solar power less than one-sixth.

As a result, much more installed capacity plus energy storage facilities are needed to match the output of a conventional 1,000 kW station. It is the cost of this extra capacity and energy storage that kills the economics of wind and solar power.

One way of establishing the real cost of wind and solar power is to compare the cost of supplying all the electricity needed by a system with no connections to other power systems. Let’s consider the cost of supplying all the electricity needed by a power system with a peak demand of 4,000 megawatts (MW) and an energy demand of 19,000 gigawatt-hours (GWh), which is typical of most power systems.


We start by assuming that five days of storage would be needed to cover a series of cloudy days in winter or five days of little wind. So, we need to calculate the costs associated with storage by batteries or by hydro-pumped storage (in which excess power is used to pump water into a reservoir which then drains through hydraulic turbines producing electricity when the primary system lacks sufficient power to supply the grid). One then discovers that the solar power option would need 16,000 MW of solar capacity + 9,000 MW of battery capacity and the all-in cost would be 38 US¢/kWh.

The wind power option would need 7,000 MW of wind and 2,250 MW of storage capacity to give a final cost of 34¢/kWh.

For comparison, the typical North American cost for combined-cycle natural gas generation is 5¢/kWh.

Biden’s Energy Plans Are Expensive—and Dangerous

pjmedia.com

~~~~~~

Toyota CEO Agrees With Elon Musk: We Don't Have Enough Electricity to Electrify All the Cars

pjmedia.com

Not a single word refuting what I said about Solyndra.

You lose, loser.

~~~~~~

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/specialreports/solyndra-scandal/

Crazy far-right source!!!!!

 

[B. Kidd]

How The COVID Relief Bill Turned Into A Climate Change Bill​

How the COVID relief bill turned into a climate change bill (hotair.com)
22 Dec 2020 ~~ By Jazz Shaw
So they did it. Working late into the night before scurrying out of town for Christmas, the House and Senate both managed to pass the gargantuan COVID relief bill. The President is expected to sign it. And when I say “gargantuan,” I’m not just talking about the massive pile of debt that the nation just accumulated. The final bill was roughly 5,000 pages long and it was festooned with a seemingly endless laundry list of items having absolutely nothing to do with the pandemic. I found myself in the unusual position of having to agree with Democratic New York Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who took to Twitter with a very justifiable complaint.

Chief among some of the massive bits of hot garbage that are completely unrelated to the pandemic were a raft of provisions dealing with climate change. Yes… I know. The Associated Press highlights some of these new laws that were never mentioned in public while the bill was being negotiated but were somehow crammed down everyone’s throats in the interest of looking like they were doing something about pandemic relief.

The energy and climate provisions, supported by lawmakers from both parties, were hailed as the most significant climate change law in at least a decade.​

“Republicans and Democrats are working together to protect the environment through innovation,” said Sen. John Barrasso, R-Wyo., chairman of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.​

“This historic agreement includes three separate pieces of legislation that will significantly reduce greenhouse gases,″ Barrasso said, citing measures that promote technologies to “capture” and store carbon dioxide produced by power and manufacturing plants; reduce diesel emissions in buses and other vehicles; and authorize a 15-year reduction of hydrofluorocarbons, or HFCs, that are used in everything from cars to air conditioners. HFCs are considered a major driver of global warming and are being targeted worldwide.​

You’re going to see the phrases “promoting technologies” and “creating jobs” quite often in that portion of the bill. The technologies in question involve carbon capture, emission reduction and replacements for the hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) used as coolants in air conditioning and refrigeration systems, among other things.
~[snip]~
To be clear, there was a great deal more than just climate change jammed into this massive bill that almost nobody in Congress or the media had a chance to read before it was passed. Our colleague Beth Baumann from Townhall has already put together a collection of the other greatest hits (to your collective wallets) that wound up in the bill. They include money for invasive species mitigation, water management on the Tibetan Plateau, “gender programs” in Pakistan, and piles of money for India, Tibet, and other nations. Dig in at the link if you have the stomach for it.
~[snip]~
Instead, they wheeled out a bill that’s ten times longer than Moby Dick and one hundred times more tedious to read. Nearly a trillion dollars just went up in smoke in the name of “Battling The Pandemic And Saving Everyone’s Lives,” with a huge amount of that legislation doing nothing of the sort. Merry freaking Christmas, everyone. This is the swamp doing what the swamp always does.


Comment:
Another Pork Filled make believe Stimulus. If I were Trump I'd shelve it until after January 21, 2021.
This is the repeat of people that wrote the Obama Stimulus Bill. It will go no where to help the American people.
Republicans have caved again.
The 5,500 page 'Covid Relief Bill' has more Pork in it than the city of Smithfield. This is sure to be eclipsed in the upcoming first Biden/Xi term. The National Debt and trade deficits are the responsibility of the House — which only shows that Pelosi, like all Ptogressive Marxist/DSA Democrat Commies, is bad for the United States, since the “increased national debt” and “worst trade deficits” all happened on her watch. Again, a repeat of 2009.
Remember 'Solyndra', 'Shovel Ready Jobs', and 'Cash for Clunkers'....
I wonder what the propaganda mantras will be this time under Joey Xi?

​

I cannot wait for the day when American's are boiling tree bark to make soup just to stay alive.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

The $600 will be offset within a week’s worth of energy cost increases.
Democrats are the stupidest and most evil anti-Americans in history.
Democrats should be incarcerated at GITMO.

 

[B. Kidd]

The $600 will be offset within a week’s worth of energy cost increases.
Democrats are the stupidest and most evil anti-Americans in history.
Democrats should be incarcerated at GITMO.

They're peak stupid beyond belief.

 

[MarathonMike]

How The COVID Relief Bill Turned Into A Climate Change Bill​

How the COVID relief bill turned into a climate change bill (hotair.com)
22 Dec 2020 ~~ By Jazz Shaw
So they did it. Working late into the night before scurrying out of town for Christmas, the House and Senate both managed to pass the gargantuan COVID relief bill. The President is expected to sign it. And when I say “gargantuan,” I’m not just talking about the massive pile of debt that the nation just accumulated. The final bill was roughly 5,000 pages long and it was festooned with a seemingly endless laundry list of items having absolutely nothing to do with the pandemic. I found myself in the unusual position of having to agree with Democratic New York Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who took to Twitter with a very justifiable complaint.

Chief among some of the massive bits of hot garbage that are completely unrelated to the pandemic were a raft of provisions dealing with climate change. Yes… I know. The Associated Press highlights some of these new laws that were never mentioned in public while the bill was being negotiated but were somehow crammed down everyone’s throats in the interest of looking like they were doing something about pandemic relief.

The energy and climate provisions, supported by lawmakers from both parties, were hailed as the most significant climate change law in at least a decade.​

“Republicans and Democrats are working together to protect the environment through innovation,” said Sen. John Barrasso, R-Wyo., chairman of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.​

“This historic agreement includes three separate pieces of legislation that will significantly reduce greenhouse gases,″ Barrasso said, citing measures that promote technologies to “capture” and store carbon dioxide produced by power and manufacturing plants; reduce diesel emissions in buses and other vehicles; and authorize a 15-year reduction of hydrofluorocarbons, or HFCs, that are used in everything from cars to air conditioners. HFCs are considered a major driver of global warming and are being targeted worldwide.​

You’re going to see the phrases “promoting technologies” and “creating jobs” quite often in that portion of the bill. The technologies in question involve carbon capture, emission reduction and replacements for the hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) used as coolants in air conditioning and refrigeration systems, among other things.
~[snip]~
To be clear, there was a great deal more than just climate change jammed into this massive bill that almost nobody in Congress or the media had a chance to read before it was passed. Our colleague Beth Baumann from Townhall has already put together a collection of the other greatest hits (to your collective wallets) that wound up in the bill. They include money for invasive species mitigation, water management on the Tibetan Plateau, “gender programs” in Pakistan, and piles of money for India, Tibet, and other nations. Dig in at the link if you have the stomach for it.
~[snip]~
Instead, they wheeled out a bill that’s ten times longer than Moby Dick and one hundred times more tedious to read. Nearly a trillion dollars just went up in smoke in the name of “Battling The Pandemic And Saving Everyone’s Lives,” with a huge amount of that legislation doing nothing of the sort. Merry freaking Christmas, everyone. This is the swamp doing what the swamp always does.


Comment:
Another Pork Filled make believe Stimulus. If I were Trump I'd shelve it until after January 21, 2021.
This is the repeat of people that wrote the Obama Stimulus Bill. It will go no where to help the American people.
Republicans have caved again.
The 5,500 page 'Covid Relief Bill' has more Pork in it than the city of Smithfield. This is sure to be eclipsed in the upcoming first Biden/Xi term. The National Debt and trade deficits are the responsibility of the House — which only shows that Pelosi, like all Ptogressive Marxist/DSA Democrat Commies, is bad for the United States, since the “increased national debt” and “worst trade deficits” all happened on her watch. Again, a repeat of 2009.
Remember 'Solyndra', 'Shovel Ready Jobs', and 'Cash for Clunkers'....
I wonder what the propaganda mantras will be this time under Joey Xi?

​

Well, now we know what Congress has been doing for the last 6 months. They've been writing 5,500 pages of every imaginable version of tax funded PORK under the Sun. Jesus Christ, what a slap in the face to small businesses hanging on by their fingernails and people who are two weeks away from being out on the street with their kids. Does anyone have any faith in our government anymore? If so, please explain WHY. They are the most worthless collection of shit producing air breathers ever assembled.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Well, now we know what Congress has been doing for the last 6 months. They've been writing 5,500 pages of every imaginable version of tax funded PORK under the Sun. Jesus Christ, what a slap in the face to small businesses hanging on by their fingernails and people who are two weeks away from being out on the street with their kids. Does anyone have any faith in our government anymore? If so, please explain WHY. They are the most worthless collection of shit producing air breathers ever assembled.

In another topic somebody posted that Trump was going to veto it, and another poster said he did veto it because it's nothing but Democrat pork.

These Democrats don't care about anybody but themselves; playing politics with millions of lives. Wasting our tax dollars on things like gender neutrality in Pakistan and hundreds of millions on the arts and entertainment. They could care less if they bankrupt us all.

 

[Muhammed]

Remember 'Solyndra'

I remember Solyndra. Republicans sabotaged it while China was throwing money at their solar startups, getting to mass solar manufacturing years ahead of the U.S.

And now we won't catch up. An entire industry GIVEN to China by Republicans.

^
Bullshit alert!

Could you explain to your fellow USMB forumers, exactly how came to the conclusion that Republicans "sabotaged" Solyndra, so that the USMB forum may scrutinize your logic?

 

[MarathonMike]

Well, now we know what Congress has been doing for the last 6 months. They've been writing 5,500 pages of every imaginable version of tax funded PORK under the Sun. Jesus Christ, what a slap in the face to small businesses hanging on by their fingernails and people who are two weeks away from being out on the street with their kids. Does anyone have any faith in our government anymore? If so, please explain WHY. They are the most worthless collection of shit producing air breathers ever assembled.

In another topic somebody posted that Trump was going to veto it, and another poster said he did veto it because it's nothing but Democrat pork.

These Democrats don't care about anybody but themselves; playing politics with millions of lives. Wasting our tax dollars on things like gender neutrality in Pakistan and hundreds of millions on the arts and entertainment. They could care less if they bankrupt us all.

Trump hasn't vetoed it yet, but he should. Barely 25% of the bill goes to helping small businesses. This bill is a total slap in the face to American people.

 

[otto105]

The energy and climate provisions, supported by lawmakers from both parties, were hailed as the most significant climate change law in at least a decade.
"Republicans and Democrats are working together to protect the environment through innovation,” said Sen. John Barrasso, R-Wyo., chairman of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2020-12-21/congress-takes-aim-at-climate-change-in-massive-relief-bill

Brasso is a moron

CO2 is not an air pollutant

Its vital to human life

How stupid are you?

 

[Moonglow]

The energy and climate provisions, supported by lawmakers from both parties, were hailed as the most significant climate change law in at least a decade.
"Republicans and Democrats are working together to protect the environment through innovation,” said Sen. John Barrasso, R-Wyo., chairman of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2020-12-21/congress-takes-aim-at-climate-change-in-massive-relief-bill

Brasso is a moron

CO2 is not an air pollutant

Its vital to human life

How stupid are you?

Put him in a sealed room with nothing but C02 and see how vital it is...

 

[Mac-7]

How stupid are you?

Smart enough to realize that libs are full of shit

 

[Mac-7]

Put him in a sealed room with nothing but C02 and see how vital it is...

you will need a sealed room because that will never happen in nature

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Put him in a sealed room with nothing but C02 and see how vital it is...

Is it possible to make earth 100% CO2?

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Put him in a sealed room with nothing but C02 and see how vital it is...

Is it possible to make earth 100% CO2?

Fill the world with feminists.

 

[Leo123]

Put him in a sealed room with nothing but C02 and see how vital it is...

Put him in a room of pure oxygen and see how vital it is.

"Contrary to popular myth, hyperventilating air at ordinary pressures never causes oxygen toxicity (the dizziness is due to CO2 levels dropping too low), but breathing oxygen at pressures of 0.5 bar or more (roughly two and a half times normal) for more than 16 hours can lead to irreversible lung damage and, eventually, death."

Why does breathing pure oxygen kill you?

We need oxygen to live, yet there's always too much of a good thing. Pure oxygen can be deadly.

www.sciencefocus.com

Apparently CO2 deprivation can also cause death. What is your point? Look Moonie, I shouldn't have to educate you that the air we breathe is complex with many gases. Any one gas (such as nitrogen or nitrogen oxide, or CO2, or any number of trace elements and gasses) is not complex enough to support human life.

 

[KissMy]

The $600 will be offset within a week’s worth of energy cost increases.
Democrats are the stupidest and most evil anti-Americans in history.
Democrats should be incarcerated at GITMO.

They're peak stupid beyond belief.

The bill Trump is signing contains:
$500,000,000 for Israel.
$2 billion for Air Force missile procurement and related expenses.
$4 billion for Navy weapons procurement.
$2 billion for Border Wall.
$2 billion for Space Force.

The US Senate voted to give $740 Billion to the military industrial complex 2wks ago!

AOC wanted everyone to get $2,000 to help losses due to Covid. New Zealand gave their citizens $600 every week for months until they all get back at work. Their little country can do it, but the wealthiest country in the world can't because they give it all to huge corporate campaign donors?? WTF