How much should health care cost? Should it cost anything?

[Big Fitz]

Seems to me as if he is still willing to pay. I was under the impression that you felt that some should not pay?

He should pay if he can. But he CANNOT afford $100k+ in medical bills if he has anything serious happen to him. What wasn't clear?

You are a riot.

So what part of me saying for obama care that everyone pays the same thing didn't you get? If everyone is paying what it would take to sustain a system, NO exceptions, it could work. So long as you have some who want something for nothing it will never work.

it seems to me as if he is not asking for something for nothing now does it.

The best part is that when Obamacare bankrupts this nation in less than 5 years, nobody will have health care regardless of money or political connection.

Damn unintended consequences of fiscal irresponsibility, socialism and statism.

 

[RDD_1210]

Seems to me as if he is still willing to pay. I was under the impression that you felt that some should not pay?

He should pay if he can. But he CANNOT afford $100k+ in medical bills if he has anything serious happen to him. What wasn't clear?

You are a riot.

So what part of me saying for obama care that everyone pays the same thing didn't you get? If everyone is paying what it would take to sustain a system, NO exceptions, it could work. So long as you have some who want something for nothing it will never work.

it seems to me as if he is not asking for something for nothing now does it.

Everyone doesn't and shouldn't pay the same, it's impossible. It's not what this legislation is about. You can't bleed money from someone that just doesn't have it. That's where you say, **** em, let em die and I say let's help subsidize their healthcare insurance rather then let them go to the ER without insurance and run up a bigger bill.

 

[Big Fitz]

<right wing talking point>LOL, freeloader. Please work harder and stop being a leech on society. You could have insurance if you weren't such a deadbeat and made some actual good decisions with you life.</right wing talking point>

I've taken not a dime of government money. I've paid my own bill. How am I a freeloading dipshit? You wanna play hypotheticals, do it on your own time.

What are you? In high school? I can't concieve why you're so goddamn dumb.

What if a passing surgeon splits your skull with a spade and puts a new brain in? What if a meteor hits tomorrow? What if you manage to unclench your sphincter long enough to pull your head out?

I give a real world example... Several of them in fact, and you wanna try and twist them around to be something they're not. Grow the **** up.

Awwww, someone doesn't have it all figured out anymore, so he resorts to name calling. And I'm guessing a high schooler has already accomplished more than you ever will, especially since you can't even afford health insurance.....how lazy and sad you are.

Got no answers either. Just blind faith in government. Pathetic.

I wanna be cattle! I wanna be cattle! Moo moo moo!

Mommy gubmint's gonna take care of aaaall my boo boos and powder my bottom because I'm an incompetant moron who is too scared to stand up for myself and take personal responsibility for my life.

Moo Moo Moo.

Ding Fries Are Done! :: American Angst ::

 

[RDD_1210]

I've taken not a dime of government money. I've paid my own bill. How am I a freeloading dipshit? You wanna play hypotheticals, do it on your own time.

What are you? In high school? I can't concieve why you're so goddamn dumb.

What if a passing surgeon splits your skull with a spade and puts a new brain in? What if a meteor hits tomorrow? What if you manage to unclench your sphincter long enough to pull your head out?

I give a real world example... Several of them in fact, and you wanna try and twist them around to be something they're not. Grow the **** up.

Awwww, someone doesn't have it all figured out anymore, so he resorts to name calling. And I'm guessing a high schooler has already accomplished more than you ever will, especially since you can't even afford health insurance.....how lazy and sad you are.

Got no answers either. Just blind faith in government. Pathetic.

I wanna be cattle! I wanna be cattle! Moo moo moo!

Mommy gubmint's gonna take care of aaaall my boo boos and powder my bottom because I'm an incompetant moron who is too scared to stand up for myself and take personal responsibility for my life.

Moo Moo Moo.

Ding Fries Are Done! :: American Angst ::

Hmmm, I actually pay for my own insurance. You're welcome for the care that I will one day subsidize for you.

 

[RDD_1210]

He should pay if he can. But he CANNOT afford $100k+ in medical bills if he has anything serious happen to him. What wasn't clear?

You are a riot.

So what part of me saying for obama care that everyone pays the same thing didn't you get? If everyone is paying what it would take to sustain a system, NO exceptions, it could work. So long as you have some who want something for nothing it will never work.

it seems to me as if he is not asking for something for nothing now does it.

The best part is that when Obamacare bankrupts this nation in less than 5 years, nobody will have health care regardless of money or political connection.

Damn unintended consequences of fiscal irresponsibility, socialism and statism.

Fiscal responsibility? Coming from the guy who can't afford health insurance and needs a payment plan to pay off $6000. Obviously you've got a lock on how to budget money.

 

[syrenn]

He should pay if he can. But he CANNOT afford $100k+ in medical bills if he has anything serious happen to him. What wasn't clear?

You are a riot.

So what part of me saying for obama care that everyone pays the same thing didn't you get? If everyone is paying what it would take to sustain a system, NO exceptions, it could work. So long as you have some who want something for nothing it will never work.

it seems to me as if he is not asking for something for nothing now does it.

Everyone doesn't and shouldn't pay the same, it's impossible. It's not what this legislation is about. You can't bleed money from someone that just doesn't have it. That's where you say, **** em, let em die and I say let's help subsidize their healthcare insurance rather then let them go to the ER without insurance and run up a bigger bill.

So again, to bad so sad. The legestions is about giving people a huge amount of funding ..for nothing. It is about forcing people to pay into a system they do not want and will not use. Just as in the UK and Canada, they have public health care and people still pay separately for private insurance over and above the public which they dont use. I am not interested in paying for health care twice.

Find a free clinic to take care of your problems. Subsidizing someone to have the ability to abuse a system is bull shit. So i am for the ER costs. AND that is on a triage system. If its not a true emergency they get turned away from the ER and sent to a clinic.

 

[RDD_1210]

You are a riot.

So what part of me saying for obama care that everyone pays the same thing didn't you get? If everyone is paying what it would take to sustain a system, NO exceptions, it could work. So long as you have some who want something for nothing it will never work.

it seems to me as if he is not asking for something for nothing now does it.

Everyone doesn't and shouldn't pay the same, it's impossible. It's not what this legislation is about. You can't bleed money from someone that just doesn't have it. That's where you say, **** em, let em die and I say let's help subsidize their healthcare insurance rather then let them go to the ER without insurance and run up a bigger bill.

So again, to bad so sad. The legestions is about giving people a huge amount of funding ..for nothing. It is about forcing people to pay into a system they do not want and will not use. Just as in the UK and Canada, they have public health care and people still pay separately for private insurance over and above the public which they dont use. I am not interested in paying for health care twice.

Find a free clinic to take care of your problems. Subsidizing someone to have the ability to abuse a system is bull shit. So i am for the ER costs. AND that is on a triage system. If its not a true emergency they get turned away from the ER and sent to a clinic.

For the 87th time, it's not for nothing. It's to save the rest of us money. You aren't even making sense anymore. Don't even respond to me anymore, talking to you is pointless. At least Bern80 is somewhat reasonable and BigFitz is a walking hypocrite and makes me laugh. You're just f'ing weird and I honestly can't figure out what the hell tangent you are talking about half the time. Just so you know I won't be responding much to you anymore.

 

[syrenn]

Everyone doesn't and shouldn't pay the same, it's impossible. It's not what this legislation is about. You can't bleed money from someone that just doesn't have it. That's where you say, **** em, let em die and I say let's help subsidize their healthcare insurance rather then let them go to the ER without insurance and run up a bigger bill.

So again, to bad so sad. The legestions is about giving people a huge amount of funding ..for nothing. It is about forcing people to pay into a system they do not want and will not use. Just as in the UK and Canada, they have public health care and people still pay separately for private insurance over and above the public which they dont use. I am not interested in paying for health care twice.

Find a free clinic to take care of your problems. Subsidizing someone to have the ability to abuse a system is bull shit. So i am for the ER costs. AND that is on a triage system. If its not a true emergency they get turned away from the ER and sent to a clinic.

For the 87th time, it's not for nothing. It's to save the rest of us money. You aren't even making sense anymore. Don't even respond to me anymore, talking to you is pointless. At least Bern80 is somewhat reasonable and BigFitz is a walking hypocrite and makes me laugh. You're just f'ing weird and I honestly can't figure out what the hell tangent you are talking about half the time. Just so you know I won't be responding much to you anymore.

I feel the same about what you are saying. It makes no sense. You seem to be the only one having trouble understanding what i am saying though. Go figure that.

 

[RDD_1210]

So again, to bad so sad. The legestions is about giving people a huge amount of funding ..for nothing. It is about forcing people to pay into a system they do not want and will not use. Just as in the UK and Canada, they have public health care and people still pay separately for private insurance over and above the public which they dont use. I am not interested in paying for health care twice.

Find a free clinic to take care of your problems. Subsidizing someone to have the ability to abuse a system is bull shit. So i am for the ER costs. AND that is on a triage system. If its not a true emergency they get turned away from the ER and sent to a clinic.

For the 87th time, it's not for nothing. It's to save the rest of us money. You aren't even making sense anymore. Don't even respond to me anymore, talking to you is pointless. At least Bern80 is somewhat reasonable and BigFitz is a walking hypocrite and makes me laugh. You're just f'ing weird and I honestly can't figure out what the hell tangent you are talking about half the time. Just so you know I won't be responding much to you anymore.

I feel the same about what you are saying. It makes no sense. You seem to be the only one having trouble understanding what i am saying though. Go figure that.

Fair enough. We can agree to disagree then.

 

[Bern80]

Hey I'm all for cutting insurance companies out all together but that is such a drastic overhaul that really would not help at all with the immediate needs we needed to address in our healthcare system. We built up and created a shitty cyclical system that needs MAJOR overhaul. If we could scrape the whole thing and start from scratch that would be great, but in reality that's just not feasible in todays world. That leaves us with makeshift solutions to cure immediate problems.....which is alot of what this legislation aims to do, as imperfect as it may be.

So that's something else we agree on. And we agree probably government doesn't like to take drastic changes, okay fine. But how about changes that at least get us going in the right direction. Come on RDD, in both of our perfect worlds people wouldn't have to rely on health insurance companies for everything. That is why it flabergasts the hell out of me how you can support in any way a bill that makes the very thing we are trying to fix, so much worse.

We want less dependence on insurance companies, this bill makes people more dependent on them.

If we do want health insurance in some form we want to have more options, the regulation in obamacare about what employers have to offer makes for fewer options.

If there is to be an insurance component to our system, we would like it be affordable, yet requiring insurance companies to charge the same thing for pre-existing conditions as those without will only drive up the cost of premiums. The fact that 700+ businesses are filing waivers to keep their cost of permiums down is PROOF that the cost of insurance is going to go up as a direct result of this bill.

We want services to cost less so that maybe we can move toward a way where people can pay for them directly. This bill doesn't address this at all and will probably actually increase the cost of services.


Those are all the backwards steps this bill takes in some ass backwards attempt to cover those that can't afford it which we both agree needs to be done in some form or other. I don't know that I've ever seen a bill where the addage about government solving problems applies more. The more they try to fix things, the more they **** it up.

You're right though, there is no other industry/service we treat this way and the only reason I support this is because we're dealing with peoples lives and well being here. I am all for private business and making a buck, but people are suffering needlessly and it's affecting the rest of us who still can pay.

And again you have to look at the forest for the trees. NOTHING is more important than individual liberty and as Franklin said, those that would give a little freedom for a little temporary security deserve neither freedom nor security. Yes it's important to reform our system and do a better job at helping those that can't help themselves. You do that by giving people incentives to do just that. This bill does the opposite and tramples the constitution in its attempt to so. NOTHING is so important that you sacrafice the freedom of the many for the sake of the few. Especially when there are better ways of doing it that need not make such a sacrifice to liberty.

 

[Zoom-boing]

He should pay if he can. But he CANNOT afford $100k+ in medical bills if he has anything serious happen to him. What wasn't clear?

You are a riot.

So what part of me saying for obama care that everyone pays the same thing didn't you get? If everyone is paying what it would take to sustain a system, NO exceptions, it could work. So long as you have some who want something for nothing it will never work.

it seems to me as if he is not asking for something for nothing now does it.

Everyone doesn't and shouldn't pay the same, it's impossible. It's not what this legislation is about. You can't bleed money from someone that just doesn't have it. That's where you say, **** em, let em die and I say let's help subsidize their healthcare insurance rather then let them go to the ER without insurance and run up a bigger bill.

Why don't they just go to the doctor and set up a payment plan with him? He'll charge a lot less for treating the flu or strep throat or an ear infection than an ER would. They also get lots of drug samples they can pass along.

Why shouldn't everyone pay the same?

 

[RDD_1210]

Hey I'm all for cutting insurance companies out all together but that is such a drastic overhaul that really would not help at all with the immediate needs we needed to address in our healthcare system. We built up and created a shitty cyclical system that needs MAJOR overhaul. If we could scrape the whole thing and start from scratch that would be great, but in reality that's just not feasible in todays world. That leaves us with makeshift solutions to cure immediate problems.....which is alot of what this legislation aims to do, as imperfect as it may be.

So that's something else we agree on. And we agree probably government doesn't like to take drastic changes, okay fine. But how about changes that at least get us going in the right direction. Come on RDD, in both of our perfect worlds people wouldn't have to rely on health insurance companies for everything. That is why it flabergasts the hell out of me how you can support in any way a bill that makes the very thing we are trying to fix, so much worse.

We want less dependence on insurance companies, this bill makes people more dependent on them.

If we do want health insurance in some form we want to have more options, the regulation in obamacare about what employers have to offer makes for fewer options.

We want services to cost less so that maybe we can move toward a way where people can pay for them directly. This bill doesn't address this at all and will probably actually increase the cost of services.

Those are all the backwards steps this bill takes in some ass backwards attempt to cover those that can't afford it which we both agree needs to be done in some form or other. I don't know that I've ever seen a bill where the addage about government solving problems applies more. The more they try to fix things, the more they **** it up.

You're right though, there is no other industry/service we treat this way and the only reason I support this is because we're dealing with peoples lives and well being here. I am all for private business and making a buck, but people are suffering needlessly and it's affecting the rest of us who still can pay.

And again you have to look at the forest for the trees. NOTHING is more important than individual liberty and as Franklin said, those that would give a little freedom for a little temporary security deserve neither freedom nor security. Yes it's important to reform our system and do a better job at helping those that can't help themselves. You do that by giving people incentives to do just that. This bill does the opposite and tramples the constitution in its attempt to so. NOTHING is so important that you sacrafice the freedom of the many for the sake of the few. Especially when there are better ways of doing it that need not make such a sacrifice to liberty.

Believe me I HATE that we not only didn't take power away from insurance companies, but instead gave them more customers and more power. Despite what some people in this thread might think, I don't 100% love this bill. I think it could have been MUCH better. However I really don't see any other options that would viable (and get enough votes) to make the amount of difference that this bill will make for many people. Yes, there are big negatives with this bill, but the positives it does bring are good enough for me, for now to enact it and fix it as we go.

 

[RDD_1210]

You are a riot.

So what part of me saying for obama care that everyone pays the same thing didn't you get? If everyone is paying what it would take to sustain a system, NO exceptions, it could work. So long as you have some who want something for nothing it will never work.

it seems to me as if he is not asking for something for nothing now does it.

Everyone doesn't and shouldn't pay the same, it's impossible. It's not what this legislation is about. You can't bleed money from someone that just doesn't have it. That's where you say, **** em, let em die and I say let's help subsidize their healthcare insurance rather then let them go to the ER without insurance and run up a bigger bill.

Why don't they just go to the doctor and set up a payment plan with him? He'll charge a lot less for treating the flu or strep throat or an ear infection than an ER would. They also get lots of drug samples they can pass along.

Why shouldn't everyone pay the same?

Paying the same is a nice thought but can't work. But let's say we try it, how much should everyone pay?

 

[Zoom-boing]

Everyone doesn't and shouldn't pay the same, it's impossible. It's not what this legislation is about. You can't bleed money from someone that just doesn't have it. That's where you say, **** em, let em die and I say let's help subsidize their healthcare insurance rather then let them go to the ER without insurance and run up a bigger bill.

Why don't they just go to the doctor and set up a payment plan with him? He'll charge a lot less for treating the flu or strep throat or an ear infection than an ER would. They also get lots of drug samples they can pass along.

Why shouldn't everyone pay the same?

Paying the same is a nice thought but can't work. But let's say we try it, how much should everyone pay?

I have no idea. You're the one saying that's impossible. Why?

 

[RDD_1210]

Why don't they just go to the doctor and set up a payment plan with him? He'll charge a lot less for treating the flu or strep throat or an ear infection than an ER would. They also get lots of drug samples they can pass along.

Why shouldn't everyone pay the same?

Paying the same is a nice thought but can't work. But let's say we try it, how much should everyone pay?

I have no idea. You're the one saying that's impossible. Why?

Because if you set it high enough to make it sustainable it will be too expensive for the poor. If you make it cheap enough for even the poorest to be able to afford it, it wouldn't be a sustainable system.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What if his bill is for 100k? Payment plan still?

Check with the hypothetical land hospital. Maybe see what payment schedule and discounts they can set up.

LOL, ok. Tell me what how on earth you will pay off 100k. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you won't be charged interest. Go ahead, how many payments and how much per payment do you think it will take to get paid off? Let's hear the big plan. This should be ******* priceless. Go ahead when you're ready, I need a good laugh.

Hospitals do not charge interest on their bills. They are not lending institutions, and there are laws governing the collection of debts.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Paying the same is a nice thought but can't work. But let's say we try it, how much should everyone pay?

I have no idea. You're the one saying that's impossible. Why?

Because if you set it high enough to make it sustainable it will be too expensive for the poor. If you make it cheap enough for even the poorest to be able to afford it, it wouldn't be a sustainable system.

Why don't they knock all the stuff out of insurance plans that add unnecessary cost for those who don't need that specific coverage? Big Fitz listed many services he doesn't need but because they are included (mandated by the states I think he said), it makes the cost too high to afford. Why aren't things like pre-natal or depression or whatever optional?

 

[Cecilie1200]

<right wing talking point>LOL, freeloader. Please work harder and stop being a leech on society. You could have insurance if you weren't such a deadbeat and made some actual good decisions with you life.</right wing talking point>

I've taken not a dime of government money. I've paid my own bill. How am I a freeloading dipshit? You wanna play hypotheticals, do it on your own time.

What are you? In high school? I can't concieve why you're so goddamn dumb.

What if a passing surgeon splits your skull with a spade and puts a new brain in? What if a meteor hits tomorrow? What if you manage to unclench your sphincter long enough to pull your head out?

I give a real world example... Several of them in fact, and you wanna try and twist them around to be something they're not. Grow the **** up.

Awwww, someone doesn't have it all figured out anymore, so he resorts to name calling. And I'm guessing a high schooler has already accomplished more than you ever will, especially since you can't even afford health insurance.....how lazy and sad you are.

YOU are going to accuse someone else of resorting to name-calling? YOU?! Who was it who immediately resorted to "you're a bad person, you want people to die" in place of any real argument as to why the rest of us should be obligated to care for total strangers? I distinctly recall YOU being the first person to bring attacks on people's character into the debate.

Not only are you self-righteous, smug, and greedy, but NOW you're a hypocrite, too.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Awwww, someone doesn't have it all figured out anymore, so he resorts to name calling. And I'm guessing a high schooler has already accomplished more than you ever will, especially since you can't even afford health insurance.....how lazy and sad you are.

Got no answers either. Just blind faith in government. Pathetic.

I wanna be cattle! I wanna be cattle! Moo moo moo!

Mommy gubmint's gonna take care of aaaall my boo boos and powder my bottom because I'm an incompetant moron who is too scared to stand up for myself and take personal responsibility for my life.

Moo Moo Moo.

Ding Fries Are Done! :: American Angst ::

Hmmm, I actually pay for my own insurance. You're welcome for the care that I will one day subsidize for you.

Forget it, asshole. You want to make paying for other people's health care an obligation? You just eliminated any need for those people to thank you or be grateful to you. Why should they? You OWE them. How DARE you be such a greedy, selfish prick as to act like you're doing something special that deserves thanks? Shut your hole and get back to work, drone.

Although it's particularly funny to see you demanding gratitude from someone who didn't want what you forced him to take in the first place.

 

[syrenn]

You are a riot.

So what part of me saying for obama care that everyone pays the same thing didn't you get? If everyone is paying what it would take to sustain a system, NO exceptions, it could work. So long as you have some who want something for nothing it will never work.

it seems to me as if he is not asking for something for nothing now does it.

Everyone doesn't and shouldn't pay the same, it's impossible. It's not what this legislation is about. You can't bleed money from someone that just doesn't have it. That's where you say, **** em, let em die and I say let's help subsidize their healthcare insurance rather then let them go to the ER without insurance and run up a bigger bill.

Why don't they just go to the doctor and set up a payment plan with him? He'll charge a lot less for treating the flu or strep throat or an ear infection than an ER would. They also get lots of drug samples they can pass along.

Why shouldn't everyone pay the same?

Because they don't want to pay anything, that is the point. Hell, i don't want to pay anything either, but life sucks.