How much can renewable energy save us?

[danielpalos]

Wind And Solar Are Our Cheapest Electricity Sources — Now What Do We Do?
By Mike O’Boyle

For years, debates about how to reduce carbon emissions from electricity generation were framed as trade-offs: What is the cost premium we must pay for generating zero-carbon electricity compared to fossil fuels, and how can we minimize those costs?

Fortunately, the holidays came early this year for renewable energy in investment company Lazard’s annual report on the levelized cost of energy (LCOE) for different electricity-generating technologies — renewables are now the cheapest available sources of electricity. This flips the question of clean versus cost on its head, and in 2017, we’ll be asking how much can we save by accelerating the renewable energy transition?

The story from Lazard’s 10th annual report is clear. Rapid technology cost reductions mean wind and solar are now the cheapest form of generation in many places around the country, without counting federal subsidies like tax credits.

What is levelized cost of energy?
Lazard uses the LCOE analysis to identify how much each unit of electricity (measured in megawatt-hours, or MWh) costs to generate over the lifetime of any power plant. LCOE represents every cost component — capital expenditure to build, operations & maintenance, and fuel costs to run — spread out over the total megawatt-hours generated during the power plant’s lifetime.

Because different plants have different operating characteristics and cost components, LCOE allows us to fairly compare different technologies. Think of it as finally being able to evenly compare apples to oranges.

How wind and solar are winning the day
According to Lazard, wind costs have fallen 66 percent since 2009, from $140/MWh to $47/MWh.

Large-scale solar’s cost declines have been even more dramatic, falling 85 percent since 2009 from more than $350/MWh to $55/MWh.

Compare this with the cheapest form of conventional fuel-fired generation today — natural gas-fired combined cycle power plants whose LCOE averages $63/MWh.

Wind And Solar Are Our Cheapest Electricity Sources — Now What Do We Do? – America’s Power Plan

Coal is dead. Natural gas will follow in a couple of decades. Wind and solar will continue to decline in price, and grid scale batteries will make them 24/7, and create a distributed grid far more robust than our present grid.

I remember USMB republicans mocking wind and solar. They said you still need coal and oil to make wind and solar. They said it was ridiculous

Less than a decade ago, the U.S. got about half its energy from coal, and today that figure is around 30 percent.

renewables that are really becoming less costly and really beginning to penetrate the market. Over the last decade, they've tripled in the amount they account for.

it's 30% because we started using natural gas instead
So it's coal 34%
natural gas 30%
Nuclear 20%
Hydro 7%
wind 5%
Solar 1%
oil 1%

solar and wind ratios could be changing as fast as advances in technologies allow.

That's right. And what we know is wind and solar are showing great promise. Even dried up old coal towns who can't grow anything on that soil once they've stipped the land of all the coal are considering becoming a place where companies put up wind mills and solar panels. Why not? There's nothing else to look at in Appalachia. LOL.

Just kidding. Beautiful country



But google Appalachia people and what pops up?



So those woods are beautiful but I wouldn't go in them.

Last guy who did regretted it

probably an area of specialty such as architecture could solve that problem for us.

Structures that may withstand nuclear forms of assault and battery; should also have their own renewable energy capability;

there is no reason not to include State power grid substations, in federal structures, that may include emergency facilities and resources.

those federal structures could be State points of access, for public goods and public services.

Renewable energy should be a State (Capitalism) concern.

 

[sealybobo]

We could harness the currents of every ocean. We're surrounded by them.

I love people who say its impossible.

where did I ever say that was impossible

reasonable and/or feasible however are 2 entirely different matters

We have a very simple solution to produce abundant reliable and emission free power right now and for some reason all you people just ignore it for something that may or may not be economically or logistically possible sometime in the future

I don't get you people

I don't get why you put out that stupid line. Wind and solar are economically feasable right now, and becoming more so every day. Your nuclear is just a pipe dream. No one is building the little reactors you speak of, in this or any other nation.

wind is not feasible without the tax subsidies.

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need. Coal is not infinite. I would think we would want to conserve coal and oil

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need.

If it's more expensive and less reliable, why is renewable a selling point?

Because we will never run out.

 

[danielpalos]

We could harness the currents of every ocean. We're surrounded by them.

I love people who say its impossible.

where did I ever say that was impossible

reasonable and/or feasible however are 2 entirely different matters

We have a very simple solution to produce abundant reliable and emission free power right now and for some reason all you people just ignore it for something that may or may not be economically or logistically possible sometime in the future

I don't get you people

I don't get why you put out that stupid line. Wind and solar are economically feasable right now, and becoming more so every day. Your nuclear is just a pipe dream. No one is building the little reactors you speak of, in this or any other nation.

wind is not feasible without the tax subsidies.

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need. Coal is not infinite. I would think we would want to conserve coal and oil

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need.

If it's more expensive and less reliable, why is renewable a selling point?

It is why we need a better grid with better substations that have better capacitance.

 

[sealybobo]

I hate it that Carter put solar panels on the white house and Reagan took them off.

The oil CEOs told Reagan to do that

 

[Skull Pilot]

still using your cost per installed capacity I suppose and not actual power generated

wind in Europe has resulted in higher prices not lower what makes you think it will be any different here?

Well it's nice to know that reducing emissions isn't your first priority it seems you don't think global warming is that big of a deal

My position is, that climate change happens, regardless of Man's input to the environment.

We merely need more, Perfect Knowledge of Things, that can help us live anywhere on Earth, regardless of climate change. Science fiction has a model, with the Stargate Atlantis series.

so you're a denier
good to know

if you don't think people hae anything to do with climate change then why do you care about wind power so much?

My position is, that climate change happens, regardless of Man's input to the environment.

wind power is simply that, dear.

why not just burn coal, gas and oil if emissions don't matter then we wouldn't have to spend any money upgrading the grid and we could end all tax subsidies for wind and solar and save billions of dollars a year

if it were that easy; we would be resorting to our Commerce Clause and improving infrastructure in the Middle East, to lower our cost of fuels.

the right wing prefers their fantasy "game theory" of a "common offense" and "general warfare"; and, complain about Taxes instead of being, Patriotic. That is why.

Do you ever listen to yourself? You want to end the war on drugs because it costs too much but you want to give huge tax subsidies for wind power even though you deny that emissions have anything to do with climate change and you want to improve the infrastructure of foreign countries

what the fuck are you on?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

where did I ever say that was impossible

reasonable and/or feasible however are 2 entirely different matters

We have a very simple solution to produce abundant reliable and emission free power right now and for some reason all you people just ignore it for something that may or may not be economically or logistically possible sometime in the future

I don't get you people

I don't get why you put out that stupid line. Wind and solar are economically feasable right now, and becoming more so every day. Your nuclear is just a pipe dream. No one is building the little reactors you speak of, in this or any other nation.

wind is not feasible without the tax subsidies.

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need. Coal is not infinite. I would think we would want to conserve coal and oil

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need.

If it's more expensive and less reliable, why is renewable a selling point?

Because we will never run out.

Never running out of something more expensive and less reliable still isn't a good selling point.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I hate it that Carter put solar panels on the white house and Reagan took them off.

The oil CEOs told Reagan to do that

That was hilarious!!

 

[Skull Pilot]

where did I ever say that was impossible

reasonable and/or feasible however are 2 entirely different matters

We have a very simple solution to produce abundant reliable and emission free power right now and for some reason all you people just ignore it for something that may or may not be economically or logistically possible sometime in the future

I don't get you people

I don't get why you put out that stupid line. Wind and solar are economically feasable right now, and becoming more so every day. Your nuclear is just a pipe dream. No one is building the little reactors you speak of, in this or any other nation.

wind is not feasible without the tax subsidies.

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need. Coal is not infinite. I would think we would want to conserve coal and oil

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need.

If it's more expensive and less reliable, why is renewable a selling point?

It is why we need a better grid with better substations that have better capacitance.

substations do not have capacitance you idiot. Do you even know what a capacitor is?

An electrical substation is a transformer where power is either stepped up in voltage for transmission over long distance power lines or stepped down before it is sent over local electric lines to the end user in the home

 

[Skull Pilot]

we can't dam enough rivers to make hydro a main source of power

We could harness the currents of every ocean. We're surrounded by them.

I love people who say its impossible.

where did I ever say that was impossible

reasonable and/or feasible however are 2 entirely different matters

We have a very simple solution to produce abundant reliable and emission free power right now and for some reason all you people just ignore it for something that may or may not be economically or logistically possible sometime in the future

I don't get you people

I don't get why you put out that stupid line. Wind and solar are economically feasable right now, and becoming more so every day. Your nuclear is just a pipe dream. No one is building the little reactors you speak of, in this or any other nation.

wind is not feasible without the tax subsidies.

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need. Coal is not infinite. I would think we would want to conserve coal and oil

It's a waste of money and will result in higher not lower electricity costs
We should be going all in on nuclear power as it is the only emission free way to produce the abundant reliable power we need no and that will meet our increased needs in the future

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

where did I ever say that was impossible

reasonable and/or feasible however are 2 entirely different matters

We have a very simple solution to produce abundant reliable and emission free power right now and for some reason all you people just ignore it for something that may or may not be economically or logistically possible sometime in the future

I don't get you people

I don't get why you put out that stupid line. Wind and solar are economically feasable right now, and becoming more so every day. Your nuclear is just a pipe dream. No one is building the little reactors you speak of, in this or any other nation.

wind is not feasible without the tax subsidies.

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need. Coal is not infinite. I would think we would want to conserve coal and oil

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need.

If it's more expensive and less reliable, why is renewable a selling point?

It is why we need a better grid with better substations that have better capacitance.

It is why we need a better grid with better substations that have better capacitance

Capacitance is the ability of a body to store an electric charge.

Hmmmmm.....you think substations are storing electric charge?

We may have discovered your area of greatest ignorance.

 

[sealybobo]

My position is, that climate change happens, regardless of Man's input to the environment.

We merely need more, Perfect Knowledge of Things, that can help us live anywhere on Earth, regardless of climate change. Science fiction has a model, with the Stargate Atlantis series.

so you're a denier
good to know

if you don't think people hae anything to do with climate change then why do you care about wind power so much?

My position is, that climate change happens, regardless of Man's input to the environment.

wind power is simply that, dear.

why not just burn coal, gas and oil if emissions don't matter then we wouldn't have to spend any money upgrading the grid and we could end all tax subsidies for wind and solar and save billions of dollars a year

if it were that easy; we would be resorting to our Commerce Clause and improving infrastructure in the Middle East, to lower our cost of fuels.

the right wing prefers their fantasy "game theory" of a "common offense" and "general warfare"; and, complain about Taxes instead of being, Patriotic. That is why.

Do you ever listen to yourself? You want to end the war on drugs because it costs too much but you want to give huge tax subsidies for wind power even though you deny that emissions have anything to do with climate change and you want to improve the infrastructure of foreign countries

what the fuck are you on?

Human emissions do have to do with climate change.

You guys don't deny that anymore. Haven't you got the .Emo?

Your new argument is that it's no big deal or that there's nothing we can do about it.

Both are also lies.

 

[sealybobo]

I don't get why you put out that stupid line. Wind and solar are economically feasable right now, and becoming more so every day. Your nuclear is just a pipe dream. No one is building the little reactors you speak of, in this or any other nation.

wind is not feasible without the tax subsidies.

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need. Coal is not infinite. I would think we would want to conserve coal and oil

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need.

If it's more expensive and less reliable, why is renewable a selling point?

Because we will never run out.

Never running out of something more expensive and less reliable still isn't a good selling point.

From what GW deniers say we need coal and oil to manufacture or produce the wind and solar machines that will produce alternative energy sources. That's a good point. So while coal and oil might be cheap now one day that sbits going to be very scarce and valuable. You want to burn up coal now for the coalminer. Fuck that. Just like detroiters they need to move from Appalachians and teach there kids to do something else

 

[sealybobo]

We could harness the currents of every ocean. We're surrounded by them.

I love people who say its impossible.

where did I ever say that was impossible

reasonable and/or feasible however are 2 entirely different matters

We have a very simple solution to produce abundant reliable and emission free power right now and for some reason all you people just ignore it for something that may or may not be economically or logistically possible sometime in the future

I don't get you people

I don't get why you put out that stupid line. Wind and solar are economically feasable right now, and becoming more so every day. Your nuclear is just a pipe dream. No one is building the little reactors you speak of, in this or any other nation.

wind is not feasible without the tax subsidies.

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need. Coal is not infinite. I would think we would want to conserve coal and oil

It's a waste of money and will result in higher not lower electricity costs
We should be going all in on nuclear power as it is the only emission free way to produce the abundant reliable power we need no and that will meet our increased needs in the future

I kind of agree. It's a technology that can burn for 1000 or more years.

Can you imagine if every house was powered for 100 years on a marble of uranium. Or a marble fuels a city.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

What about using our garbage instead of dumping in the ocean &/or landfills? We wouldn't be using any resources and saving the planet at the same time. It would also be reliable and readily available. It would also be incentive to clean up said oceans & landfills and to protect what we have left. Seems like a win-win

 

[Skull Pilot]

so you're a denier
good to know

if you don't think people hae anything to do with climate change then why do you care about wind power so much?

My position is, that climate change happens, regardless of Man's input to the environment.

wind power is simply that, dear.

why not just burn coal, gas and oil if emissions don't matter then we wouldn't have to spend any money upgrading the grid and we could end all tax subsidies for wind and solar and save billions of dollars a year

if it were that easy; we would be resorting to our Commerce Clause and improving infrastructure in the Middle East, to lower our cost of fuels.

the right wing prefers their fantasy "game theory" of a "common offense" and "general warfare"; and, complain about Taxes instead of being, Patriotic. That is why.

Do you ever listen to yourself? You want to end the war on drugs because it costs too much but you want to give huge tax subsidies for wind power even though you deny that emissions have anything to do with climate change and you want to improve the infrastructure of foreign countries

what the fuck are you on?

Human emissions do have to do with climate change.

You guys don't deny that anymore. Haven't you got the .Emo?

Your new argument is that it's no big deal or that there's nothing we can do about it.

Both are also lies.

you come late to the party and presume to know what the fuck is going on

That was a response to DP because he said that humans do not have any effect on climate not me asshole
I have never denied that humans affect climate if you want you can try to find a quote where I did say that

 

[danielpalos]

My position is, that climate change happens, regardless of Man's input to the environment.

We merely need more, Perfect Knowledge of Things, that can help us live anywhere on Earth, regardless of climate change. Science fiction has a model, with the Stargate Atlantis series.

so you're a denier
good to know

if you don't think people hae anything to do with climate change then why do you care about wind power so much?

My position is, that climate change happens, regardless of Man's input to the environment.

wind power is simply that, dear.

why not just burn coal, gas and oil if emissions don't matter then we wouldn't have to spend any money upgrading the grid and we could end all tax subsidies for wind and solar and save billions of dollars a year

if it were that easy; we would be resorting to our Commerce Clause and improving infrastructure in the Middle East, to lower our cost of fuels.

the right wing prefers their fantasy "game theory" of a "common offense" and "general warfare"; and, complain about Taxes instead of being, Patriotic. That is why.

Do you ever listen to yourself? You want to end the war on drugs because it costs too much but you want to give huge tax subsidies for wind power even though you deny that emissions have anything to do with climate change and you want to improve the infrastructure of foreign countries

what the fuck are you on?

the side of Capitalism?

 

[danielpalos]

I don't get why you put out that stupid line. Wind and solar are economically feasable right now, and becoming more so every day. Your nuclear is just a pipe dream. No one is building the little reactors you speak of, in this or any other nation.

wind is not feasible without the tax subsidies.

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need. Coal is not infinite. I would think we would want to conserve coal and oil

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need.

If it's more expensive and less reliable, why is renewable a selling point?

Because we will never run out.

Never running out of something more expensive and less reliable still isn't a good selling point.

propaganda and rhetoric, with special pleading?

technology is improving all the time.

 

[danielpalos]

I don't get why you put out that stupid line. Wind and solar are economically feasable right now, and becoming more so every day. Your nuclear is just a pipe dream. No one is building the little reactors you speak of, in this or any other nation.

wind is not feasible without the tax subsidies.

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need. Coal is not infinite. I would think we would want to conserve coal and oil

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need.

If it's more expensive and less reliable, why is renewable a selling point?

It is why we need a better grid with better substations that have better capacitance.

substations do not have capacitance you idiot. Do you even know what a capacitor is?

An electrical substation is a transformer where power is either stepped up in voltage for transmission over long distance power lines or stepped down before it is sent over local electric lines to the end user in the home

substations can include capacitance, dear; it is the reason for the structure.

 

[danielpalos]

I don't get why you put out that stupid line. Wind and solar are economically feasable right now, and becoming more so every day. Your nuclear is just a pipe dream. No one is building the little reactors you speak of, in this or any other nation.

wind is not feasible without the tax subsidies.

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need. Coal is not infinite. I would think we would want to conserve coal and oil

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need.

If it's more expensive and less reliable, why is renewable a selling point?

It is why we need a better grid with better substations that have better capacitance.

It is why we need a better grid with better substations that have better capacitance

Capacitance is the ability of a body to store an electric charge.

Hmmmmm.....you think substations are storing electric charge?

We may have discovered your area of greatest ignorance.

it is for the common defense.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

wind is not feasible without the tax subsidies.

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need. Coal is not infinite. I would think we would want to conserve coal and oil

But it's cleaner and renewable. We have all the wind we need.

If it's more expensive and less reliable, why is renewable a selling point?

Because we will never run out.

Never running out of something more expensive and less reliable still isn't a good selling point.

propaganda and rhetoric, with special pleading?

technology is improving all the time.

I'm not pleading with green propaganda. That's the other guys.