How many blame republicans?

[MaggieMae]

Great point, but lets not forget if it had not been for 9/11 we never would have went to Iraq in the first place and the events leading up to 9/11 was due to clinton and his adminastraition dropping the ball. But the biggest mess of all is the community re-envestment act that help to build the mega giants Fredy Mac and Fanny Mae. with their fall thus fell the U.S. Economy.

9/11 might have chronologically preceded our invasion of Iraq, but it certainly was NEVER a reasonable justification FOR it. I fully supported our invasion of Afghanistan and, as I have said on here before, I even volunteered to go back on active duty prior to that invasion, but Bush dropped the ball at Tora Bora and his inexplicable and unjustified shifting of priorities from Al Qaeda in Afghanistan who HAD attacked us to Saddam in Iraq who had NOT attacked us was a TERRIBLE and HORRID foreign policy blunder of EPIC proportions.

And I don't see the CRA as the villian, per se, but rather the administration and application of it, which both parties share fairly equally. The CRA was, after all, founded to "help meet the credit needs of the communities in which they operate, including low- and moderate-income neighborhoods, consistent with safe and sound operations.”

Most were supportive of going to Iraq hin side is 20/20 no one knew that the information that was given was flawed. but Saddam did violate the terms of the cease fire of 91.

Now as to the CRA being a villian or not would you agree that loaning money to people who could never repay the loan is a dangerous thing? If the government forced the banks to do this then it was because of the CRA.

Apparently it was a good thing, since Bush expanded the CRA concept by promoting no money down loans, with fewer qualifications for those loans.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

let's look at foreign policy and military intervention...

I think that most folks will agree that the two biggest misadventures in that category over the last fifty years or so have been Vietnam and Iraq. I will readily admit that the Tonkin Gulf resolution and all the carnage that flowed from that flawed moment rests on the shoulders of the democratic party. Invading Iraq to rid Saddam of WMD's that he did not possess and all the carnage and diplomatic unrest that flowed from that flawed moment rests on the shoulders of President Bush, and, therefore, on the shoulders of the republican party.

Great point, but lets not forget if it had not been for 9/11 we never would have went to Iraq in the first place and the events leading up to 9/11 was due to clinton and his adminastraition dropping the ball. But the biggest mess of all is the community re-envestment act that help to build the mega giants Fredy Mac and Fanny Mae. with their fall thus fell the U.S. Economy.

Oh sweet jesus, here we go. Now you want to change the subject to the blame game for 911 and the Iraq war? Holy shit, did you get dumped off another board or something and you've gotta post everything in your repertoire? Both those subjects have been debated to death, ad nauseam. I'm bored with you. Bye.

No I didn't change the subject but the subject was brought up and I addressed it.

 

[MaggieMae]

Everyone has to remember that prior to 9/11 even the democrats were in favor of regime change in Iraq, not just the Bush administration. That is conveniently left out by the Bush detractors. When the USA decided to fight terrorism then Iraq regime change was logical.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

Nope, even that logic fails. Prior to the invasion, the definition of "regime change" did not mean outright invasion, requiring US troops and carpet bombing. Iraq was NOT "harboring terrorists," but Iran was. So was Syria. So was Saudi Arabia. The neocons had long wanted an outright invasion, and their opening came with the 911 attacks to do it. There's so much evidence supporting that, it would make your head spin.

 

[rightwinger]

Agreed but it does seem that the democrats have had more time to screw things up then the Republicans have. Don't get me wrong the Republicans aren't prefect but lets not fool ourself the democrats have controlled the government more then the republicans have.

Two faces on the same counterfeit coin.

The point is Republicans are being blamed for what they did not do.

What exactly have the Republicans done?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

9/11 might have chronologically preceded our invasion of Iraq, but it certainly was NEVER a reasonable justification FOR it. I fully supported our invasion of Afghanistan and, as I have said on here before, I even volunteered to go back on active duty prior to that invasion, but Bush dropped the ball at Tora Bora and his inexplicable and unjustified shifting of priorities from Al Qaeda in Afghanistan who HAD attacked us to Saddam in Iraq who had NOT attacked us was a TERRIBLE and HORRID foreign policy blunder of EPIC proportions.

And I don't see the CRA as the villian, per se, but rather the administration and application of it, which both parties share fairly equally. The CRA was, after all, founded to "help meet the credit needs of the communities in which they operate, including low- and moderate-income neighborhoods, consistent with safe and sound operations.”

Most were supportive of going to Iraq hin side is 20/20 no one knew that the information that was given was flawed. but Saddam did violate the terms of the cease fire of 91.

Now as to the CRA being a villian or not would you agree that loaning money to people who could never repay the loan is a dangerous thing? If the government forced the banks to do this then it was because of the CRA.

Apparently it was a good thing, since Bush expanded the CRA concept by promoting no money down loans, with fewer qualifications for those loans.

Did bush do that or are you twisting tha fact? Now if he did do this why would he try regulate Fredy mac and Fanny Mae in 2003?

 

[MaggieMae]

The only time Congress ever did anything correct was when Reagan was President. Tax cuts jumped started a failed democratic economy. The community re-envestment act was the beginning of the failure of Freedy Mac and Fanny Mae, hand outs for those who could not repay their loans.. and barney franks and company said these two groups where sound and strong up until they fell down.

BW Online | June 21, 2004 | The Real Economic Legacy Of Ronald Reagan

Inevitably, the measure of Reagan's legacy of the '80s must be taken against what followed: the Clinton years of the '90s. Reagan became President when America was economically sclerotic. His tax changes, combined with a tight monetary policy, helped to make the country competitive again. The price paid, however, was a soaring budget deficit. Reagan and his supply-side advisers believed that big tax cuts would pay for themselves by generating higher tax revenues through greater economic growth. It never happened.

President Clinton took office in 1993, when those huge budget deficits weighed heavily on the markets and the economy. Clinton's turn away from liberal spending to balancing the budget (the "Rubinomics" policy of his Treasury Secretary, Robert E. Rubin) brought confidence back to the markets. When telecom and the Internet took off three years later, the economy ignited.

Yet despite different fiscal policies, the macroeconomic outcomes were remarkably similar. Under Reagan, lower taxes and a soaring budget deficit produced a growth rate of 3.4%. Under Bill Clinton, higher taxes and a budget surplus generated growth of 3.6%. Throughout both Presidencies, from 1982 to 2000, interest rates fell and the stock market roared. So much for ideology.

Just a bump of liberal horseshit.

And what exactly would that make yours? Conservative purity? Try conservative whitewash.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Two faces on the same counterfeit coin.

The point is Republicans are being blamed for what they did not do.

What exactly have the Republicans done?

You have to have the power to do something democrats have controlled the government for 50+ years so what have the Democrats done? cause an economy to collaspe.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

BW Online | June 21, 2004 | The Real Economic Legacy Of Ronald Reagan

Just a bump of liberal horseshit.

And what exactly would that make yours? Conservative purity? Try conservative whitewash.

facts vs. horseshit. you do understand which is better?

 

[MaggieMae]

obama was a senator in a democratic controlled congress in 2007 the bank failures happen in 2008
Bush and the Republicans controlled the Government in 2001 9/11 happened in 2001 You blame Bush and the Republicans for 9/11 becausae they were in control. So the blame for the failed economy according to you should be blamed on ther democrats since they controlled the government when the failure happened.

I have a feeling you're not going to be someone I can have a conversation with. You dopey conservatives give the other 2% a bad name.

Is there something incorrect that I may have said? Or is it the truth that you hate to see?

As CaliforniaGirl said regarding people's opinions based on whatever their choice of media tells them, you've so obviously ONLY listened and watched and read from right wing media that it's laughable. My truth's better'n your truth.

 

[Jack Fate]

I have a feeling you're not going to be someone I can have a conversation with. You dopey conservatives give the other 2% a bad name.

Is there something incorrect that I may have said? Or is it the truth that you hate to see?

As CaliforniaGirl said regarding people's opinions based on whatever their choice of media tells them, you've so obviously ONLY listened and watched and read from right wing media that it's laughable. My truth's better'n your truth.

Then show us something specific. Nothing wrong with "right wing media" if the truth is there. Disagreeing does not equate to having your facts wrong.

 

[Care4all]

Near every democrat in the House of representatives voted AGAINST IT....

This WAS THE REPUBLICAN medicare pill bill, NOT the democratic.

May I remind you, the House kept a 15 minute vote that came to the NO VOTES winning, opened for 3 HOURS so that they could twist republican congressmen that voted against it to change their vote to yes.... it took them 3 hours to bribe and twist arms until they finally had enough votes to pass the bill....

and that republican congressman Billy Tauzine who was in charge of the bill let PHARMA write it and also LOCKED Democrats out of the negotiations...AND Tauzine quit after he got his bill passed and went to WORK FOR PHARMA with a multi million dollar salary....for him getting PHARMA'S bill passed with no ability to negotiate with foreign countries and no ability to negotiate for bulk discounts....

Ironic, since the repubs stole Medicare D from the democrats, isn't it?

not the same bill, but certainly the democrats wanted a pill bill, just NOT this one that catered to pharma and is bankrupting us.

Poison Pill - Barbara T. Dreyfuss

read it if you will...one reason i could never be a republican.....

and yes, i know the democrats have had their scummy times too...but i doubt anyone could outdo the republican sleaziness recorded in the article.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Okay, I have been trying to decide whether or not I should even bother getting into this thread, but decided I may as well.

I have to ask... blame Republicans for what?

If you think I am going to take your OP and say, you are right the blame lies on Democrats, you have another thing coming. My personal feeling is that the blame lies on both parties regardless of who had control at any given time and for how long. The fact is, in my opinion, that there is not a lot of difference in whether or not a politician is a Republican or a Democrats. They still want our freedoms the only difference is which freedom do they want to take first.

So you tell me what issue(s) are you talking about, but don't expect me to say, I blame only this or that party for most of the issues as blame lies more in the politicians rather than the parties.

Immie

You are one of the few maybe you haven't noticed though that there is a lot of blame being pushed off on the Republicans.
How about Freddy Mac and Fanny Mae failures?

 

[Oddball]

Near every democrat in the House of representatives voted AGAINST IT....

This WAS THE REPUBLICAN medicare pill bill, NOT the democratic.

May I remind you, the House kept a 15 minute vote that came to the NO VOTES winning, opened for 3 HOURS so that they could twist republican congressmen that voted against it to change their vote to yes.... it took them 3 hours to bribe and twist arms until they finally had enough votes to pass the bill....

and that republican congressman Billy Tauzine who was in charge of the bill let PHARMA write it and also LOCKED Democrats out of the negotiations...AND Tauzine quit after he got his bill passed and went to WORK FOR PHARMA with a multi million dollar salary....for him getting PHARMA'S bill passed with no ability to negotiate with foreign countries and no ability to negotiate for bulk discounts....

Ironic, since the repubs stole Medicare D from the democrats, isn't it?

not the same bill, but certainly the democrats wanted a pill bill, just NOT this one that catered to pharma and is bankrupting us.

Poison Pill - Barbara T. Dreyfuss

read it if you will...one reason i could never be a republican.....

and yes, i know the democrats have had their scummy times too...but i doubt anyone could outdo the republican sleaziness recorded in the article.

What...You really think there aren't scads of dems who aren't in the pockets of BigPharm, and equally adept at giving them their own sweetheart deals?

Don't be naïve.

 

[MaggieMae]

The numbers were a bit scewed when clinton left office so there wasn't a surplus
Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 1950 - 1999
NEXT!!!!!!!!!!

That's odd, then why did Bush Jr. say in his first economic speech to Congress (February 2001) that he intended to take the "surplus" and give it back to the people? The budget surplus was $236 billion (however you, and Limbaugh, wish to spin it) and was done through a series of tax increases and spending cuts (just what Republicans SHOULD be advocating now, instead of just the latter).

I see you don't like facts but when you try to push something as fact when it isn't you get all pissed. You can't changed it.

You don't think Bush said that? Here ya go:

Bush Speech to Congress: 27 Feb 2001

 

[MaggieMae]

The numbers were a bit scewed when clinton left office so there wasn't a surplus
Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 1950 - 1999
NEXT!!!!!!!!!!

That's odd, then why did Bush Jr. say in his first economic speech to Congress (February 2001) that he intended to take the "surplus" and give it back to the people? The budget surplus was $236 billion (however you, and Limbaugh, wish to spin it) and was done through a series of tax increases and spending cuts (just what Republicans SHOULD be advocating now, instead of just the latter).

actually the republicans touted that there was a $5 TRILLION 10 year projected surplus and they wanted to give it back to the tax payers because it was theirs.

They took the Social security projected surplus and GAVE the majority of it TO THE WEALTHIEST who do not pay SS tax on their entire earnings...only on about 95k at the time, IF they pay any AT ALL...
they should have taken the SS surplus money and given an SS tax break not an income tax break, it was SS surpluses ya know?
REVERSE ROBINHOOD.... imo.

Yes, that one speech said VOLUMES!!
Bush Speech to Congress: 27 Feb 2001

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Is there something incorrect that I may have said? Or is it the truth that you hate to see?

As CaliforniaGirl said regarding people's opinions based on whatever their choice of media tells them, you've so obviously ONLY listened and watched and read from right wing media that it's laughable. My truth's better'n your truth.

Then show us something specific. Nothing wrong with "right wing media" if the truth is there. Disagreeing does not equate to having your facts wrong.

That will never happen

 

[Care4all]

I didn't see Republicans working too hard against the Medicare Prescription Drug Plan, which was their Socialist baby. An unfunded mandate, by the way, to the tune of $700 billion and more the longer it stays on the books. At least "Obamacare" attempts to get it paid for over time, and if it doesn't, well...it will just have to be hacked to pieces, won't it.

Near every democrat in the House of representatives voted AGAINST IT....

This WAS THE REPUBLICAN medicare pill bill, NOT the democratic.

May I remind you, the House kept a 15 minute vote that came to the NO VOTES winning, opened for 3 HOURS so that they could twist republican congressmen that voted against it to change their vote to yes.... it took them 3 hours to bribe and twist arms until they finally had enough votes to pass the bill....

and that republican congressman Billy Tauzine who was in charge of the bill let PHARMA write it and also LOCKED Democrats out of the negotiations...AND Tauzine quit after he got his bill passed and went to WORK FOR PHARMA with a multi million dollar salary....for him getting PHARMA'S bill passed with no ability to negotiate with foreign countries and no ability to negotiate for bulk discounts....

got a link to the votes?

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll332.xml

 

[MaggieMae]

Problem is they haven't been in a position to wreck havoc for over 4 years and said havoc didn't take place until 07. [check the dates on the banking and housing crisis]

So....who's to blame for our economy??? Congress. The President doesn't set banking regulations....Congress does. Who spends money from the Treasury....Congress. Who's to blame for all of the hell that broke loose in 08'?

Those who've been in charge since Jan 07'

Democraps in Congress.

Sure, since 2007. Nobody with half a brain buys that, genius.

USATODAY.com - Bush seeks to increase minority homeownership
In a bid to boost minority homeownership, President Bush will ask Congress for authority to eliminate the down-payment requirement for Federal Housing Administration loans.

You can find his speeches on that in many places. Feel free to search for yourself. Although the house of cards came crashing down on Democrats' watch, it took many years building to the crescendo, my friend. These events didn't happen as a result of only one year of Democratic control. You continue to be easy to dumb down:

The Financial Crisis Timeline

your bucket has a hole in it.........................or two

[youtube]cMnSp4qEXNM[/youtube]

[youtube]_MGT_cSi7Rs[/youtube]

the craps are covering up for ACORN which got the cheap or free loans and have been for years​

Those old videos prove squat. Since nobody (NOBODY) was aware of the little securities packaging that was being done by the lending banks, with no SEC oversight, posting what lawmakers said before it all came crashing down is moot.

 

[boedicca]

What...You really think there aren't scads of dems who aren't in the pockets of BigPharm, and equally adept at giving them their own sweetheart deals?

Don't be naïve.

Big Pharma supported ObamaCare and paid for advertisements to promote it for a reason.

 

[MaggieMae]

I'm not partial to either party when it comes to blame. Just because Dems have been in control the majority of the time doesn't mean that the Repubs are blameless ...... a serious discussion about the facts would also show just how hard the Repubs fought against the policies that have brought this country to their needs. Check the voting records to see how many Repubs went along with the Dems who were in power.

So, I blame anyone of either party, regardless of which was in power ....that voted, sponsored, or supported the ungodly spending programs we have now.

I do appreciate your attempt to get the facts out there.....perhaps you can show the vote breakdowns.

I didn't see Republicans working too hard against the Medicare Prescription Drug Plan, which was their Socialist baby. An unfunded mandate, by the way, to the tune of $700 billion and more the longer it stays on the books. At least "Obamacare" attempts to get it paid for over time, and if it doesn't, well...it will just have to be hacked to pieces, won't it.

and the craps??? they sit on their ass's and picked their noses while seniors finally got prescrip drug relief. what's left for you boy to do??? elim the doughnut hole. BIG FUCKIN' DEAL !!!

and no granny mae you can't get your cocaine and and blow on prescripts

You're always just so clever, I can barely contain myself.