How Evil is Libertarianism anyway?

[TemplarKormac]

So, if you are saying that I'm wrong to call TK on his lies and hypocrisy, how about you tell me what "real" Libertarians, lie you and him, believe.

Synth was bragging about his self sufficiency, you brag about yours, but both of you agree with the concept that people need to rely on entitlement programs for a living instead of working an honest job. How hypocritical is that?

 

[Arianrhod]

When and where has libertarianism actually been implemented? You lot can't even agree on what it is. Ask two "libertarians" what "libertarianism" means, and they'll end up arguing with each other...if one of them doesn't draw down on the other first.

So someone please show me a country, a state, a town, a compound in the woods somewhere - any gathering of more than one Grizzly Adams type surrounded by his harem - in which the "principles of libertarianism" - whatever those might be at any given moment - have been implemented and actually functioned in the Real World.

Libertarianism isn't evil. It's infantile.

 

[kaz]

I think you owe the Amish an apology, despite them being a bunch of weirdasses like they are, they are not so loathesome as Libertarians.

Lol. Libertarian here.

Unlike Republicans or Democrats, libertarians like me, who don't affiliate themselves with the official Libertarian Party, don't adhere to the rigidity of party politics. Party politics can lead people to be closed minded and prejudiced, as evidenced from what I'm seeing in this thread.


It allows us to tolerate what we please, and be intolerant to what we please. But enjoy being led along like lemmings by the establishments in your respective parties.

TemplarKormac

You're not a "Libertarian" in any possible meaning of the word. You ARE closed minded and prejudiced, to the extreme. You are mindlessly racist, homophobic and consistently post against the US Constitution as well as the principles of justice and equality upon which the US was founded.

I have often wondered how how someone in their early thirties got to be a stubborn old fart and so utterly encased in the cement of hate.

And, for the gazillionth time, Libertarians work to support themselves. They don't leech off the Social Security of little old ladies - especially while railing against Social Security.

To my knowledge, there is no recognized political belief that is based on bragging about being fat, too lazy to get a job with bragging about Twinkies as a platform. Come back when you're willing to walk the walk of principles you currently only give lip service to.

Templar is one of the most honest people on the board. Obviously know know that since you're using things he's said against him, including his insecurity issues and weight battles.

I mean this sincerely, you actually are a dick of a human being. You don't just play one on message boards

Nope. TK demanded that liberals get him a job and then, when many of us offered to help him, he threw a little hissy fit and said he didn't want to work.

What I said is that he does not post "libertarian" values, attitudes and principles. To be fair, I'm old school. I left the Dick Lamm campaign to be one of the original group who sat in Dave Nolan's living room, hammering out what we believed and turning it into the Libertarian political party.

Then, I grew up and, though we stayed friends, through to his death in Tucson, I never again agreed with Libertarian beliefs.

So, if you are saying that I'm wrong to call TK on his lies and hypocrisy, how about you tell me what "real" Libertarians, lie you and him, believe.

Such as - do you believe you should work for a living? Or do you believe you should just be a leech?

I'm not conceding any of that, but I'm ignoring it because it wasn't what I said. What I said is that you clearly and repeatedly in that post used his insecurities that he's publicly stated many times in a genuine effort to hurt him.

You seriously are a dick of a human being. You should reflect on your life and ask yourself what is wrong with you. Maybe query some people who know you and get their input too. Somewhere you went very wrong

 

[dblack]

When and where has libertarianism actually been implemented?

This again? Answer: Everywhere. Every society that makes any attempt to protect individual liberty is, in some measure, 'implementing' libertarianism.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I think you owe the Amish an apology, despite them being a bunch of weirdasses like they are, they are not so loathesome as Libertarians.

Lol. Libertarian here.

Unlike Republicans or Democrats, libertarians like me, who don't affiliate themselves with the official Libertarian Party, don't adhere to the rigidity of party politics. Party politics can lead people to be closed minded and prejudiced, as evidenced from what I'm seeing in this thread.


It allows us to tolerate what we please, and be intolerant to what we please. But enjoy being led along like lemmings by the establishments in your respective parties.

TemplarKormac

You're not a "Libertarian" in any possible meaning of the word. You ARE closed minded and prejudiced, to the extreme. You are mindlessly racist, homophobic and consistently post against the US Constitution as well as the principles of justice and equality upon which the US was founded.

I have often wondered how how someone in their early thirties got to be a stubborn old fart and so utterly encased in the cement of hate.

And, for the gazillionth time, Libertarians work to support themselves. They don't leech off the Social Security of little old ladies - especially while railing against Social Security.

To my knowledge, there is no recognized political belief that is based on bragging about being fat, too lazy to get a job with bragging about Twinkies as a platform. Come back when you're willing to walk the walk of principles you currently only give lip service to.

Templar is one of the most honest people on the board. Obviously know know that since you're using things he's said against him, including his insecurity issues and weight battles.

I mean this sincerely, you actually are a dick of a human being. You don't just play one on message boards

Nope. TK demanded that liberals get him a job and then, when many of us offered to help him, he threw a little hissy fit and said he didn't want to work.

What I said is that he does not post "libertarian" values, attitudes and principles. To be fair, I'm old school. I left the Dick Lamm campaign to be one of the original group who sat in Dave Nolan's living room, hammering out what we believed and turning it into the Libertarian political party.

Then, I grew up and, though we stayed friends, through to his death in Tucson, I never again agreed with Libertarian beliefs.

So, if you are saying that I'm wrong to call TK on his lies and hypocrisy, how about you tell me what "real" Libertarians, lie you and him, believe.

Such as - do you believe you should work for a living? Or do you believe you should just be a leech?

I'm not conceding any of that, but I'm ignoring it because it wasn't what I said. What I said is that you clearly and repeatedly in that post used his insecurities that he's publicly stated many times in a genuine effort to hurt him.

You seriously are a dick of a human being. You should reflect on your life and ask yourself what is wrong with you. Maybe query some people who know you and get their input too. Somewhere you went very wrong

Don't worry about it. He's too insecure to debate me on the merits of my argument. Luddly is too used to being in that liberal clique of his where everyone agrees with him and nobody disagrees with him. He's nothing but a spoiled, intellectually dishonest brat.

With that being said, however, he's free to attack my points any time he likes. I'll even unignore him.

 

[kaz]

Lol. Libertarian here.

Unlike Republicans or Democrats, libertarians like me, who don't affiliate themselves with the official Libertarian Party, don't adhere to the rigidity of party politics. Party politics can lead people to be closed minded and prejudiced, as evidenced from what I'm seeing in this thread.


It allows us to tolerate what we please, and be intolerant to what we please. But enjoy being led along like lemmings by the establishments in your respective parties.

TemplarKormac

You're not a "Libertarian" in any possible meaning of the word. You ARE closed minded and prejudiced, to the extreme. You are mindlessly racist, homophobic and consistently post against the US Constitution as well as the principles of justice and equality upon which the US was founded.

I have often wondered how how someone in their early thirties got to be a stubborn old fart and so utterly encased in the cement of hate.

And, for the gazillionth time, Libertarians work to support themselves. They don't leech off the Social Security of little old ladies - especially while railing against Social Security.

To my knowledge, there is no recognized political belief that is based on bragging about being fat, too lazy to get a job with bragging about Twinkies as a platform. Come back when you're willing to walk the walk of principles you currently only give lip service to.

Templar is one of the most honest people on the board. Obviously know know that since you're using things he's said against him, including his insecurity issues and weight battles.

I mean this sincerely, you actually are a dick of a human being. You don't just play one on message boards

Nope. TK demanded that liberals get him a job and then, when many of us offered to help him, he threw a little hissy fit and said he didn't want to work.

What I said is that he does not post "libertarian" values, attitudes and principles. To be fair, I'm old school. I left the Dick Lamm campaign to be one of the original group who sat in Dave Nolan's living room, hammering out what we believed and turning it into the Libertarian political party.

Then, I grew up and, though we stayed friends, through to his death in Tucson, I never again agreed with Libertarian beliefs.

So, if you are saying that I'm wrong to call TK on his lies and hypocrisy, how about you tell me what "real" Libertarians, lie you and him, believe.

Such as - do you believe you should work for a living? Or do you believe you should just be a leech?

I'm not conceding any of that, but I'm ignoring it because it wasn't what I said. What I said is that you clearly and repeatedly in that post used his insecurities that he's publicly stated many times in a genuine effort to hurt him.

You seriously are a dick of a human being. You should reflect on your life and ask yourself what is wrong with you. Maybe query some people who know you and get their input too. Somewhere you went very wrong

Don't worry about it. He's too insecure to debate me on the merits of my argument. Luddly is too used to being in that liberal clique of his where everyone agrees with him and nobody disagrees with him. He's nothing but a spoiled, intellectually dishonest brat.

With that being said, however, he's free to attack my points any time he likes. I'll even unignore him.

You're a good man, Templar

 

[Luddly Neddite]

You're not a "Libertarian" in any possible meaning of the word. You ARE closed minded and prejudiced, to the extreme. You are mindlessly racist, homophobic and consistently post against the US Constitution as well as the principles of justice and equality upon which the US was founded.

Interesting. My uncle was gay first off, second, I'm far more open minded than you are. For example, if you were open minded, you wouldn't refer to me as this slew of pejoratives. You can't tolerate my points of view, so therefore that makes you closed minded. Not me. Open minded individuals tolerate points of view that don't agree with theirs.

I have often wondered how how someone in their early thirties got to be a stubborn old fart and so utterly encased in the cement of hate.

The hate card. Do you have an actual argument?

And, for the gazillionth time, Libertarians work to support themselves. They don't leech off the Social Security of little old ladies - especially while railing against Social Security.

Funny, liberals like you preach the gospel of dependence on government. Color me shocked.

(By the way, the insults about my grandmother and my weight got old three years ago, that's why I have most of the trolls like you on my ignore list.)

To my knowledge, there is no recognized political belief that is based on bragging about being fat, too lazy to get a job with bragging about Twinkies as a platform. Come back when you're willing to walk the walk of principles you currently only give lip service to.

This is absolutely hilarious!

You can't argue one single point of mine, so you presume to judge me, not on my points, but on my weight or my lifestyle. Who is it being lazy now? You're too lazy to debate me on the merit of my argument, because if you did, I would destroy you.

And you have no place lecturing me on "principles." Because as I see it, you have none.

You don't have actual, adult opinions and positions. Today, you'll say one thing and tomorrow, something else. I remember when you actually said you are "Libertarian and anarchist". IOW, you have no clue what you're saying.

You have me on "ignore" but see my posts? Liar.

Done with you sonny boy - until you walk the walk.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

So, if you are saying that I'm wrong to call TK on his lies and hypocrisy, how about you tell me what "real" Libertarians, lie you and him, believe.

Synth was bragging about his self sufficiency, you brag about yours, but both of you agree with the concept that people need to rely on entitlement programs for a living instead of working an honest job. How hypocritical is that?

Nope. Never said "that people need to rely on entitlement programs for a living instead of working an honest job."

That's what you LIVE. Its the very essence of what YOU have bragged.

 

[TemplarKormac]

You don't have actual, adult opinions and positions.

And you think you're the arbiter of what "actual, adult opinions and positions" are? Rofl.

You have me on "ignore" but see my posts? Liar.

That's because I just unignored you, like I promised.

Done with you sonny boy - until you walk the walk.

Run away. Coward.

Fear me.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

When and where has libertarianism actually been implemented? You lot can't even agree on what it is. Ask two "libertarians" what "libertarianism" means, and they'll end up arguing with each other...if one of them doesn't draw down on the other first.

So someone please show me a country, a state, a town, a compound in the woods somewhere - any gathering of more than one Grizzly Adams type surrounded by his harem - in which the "principles of libertarianism" - whatever those might be at any given moment - have been implemented and actually functioned in the Real World.

Libertarianism isn't evil. It's infantile.

Its like Communism is in that, at first blush, it sounds ideal and idyllic. But, like Communism, its not workable.

In the final analysis, it is a way for the lazy minded to be critical while not having any skin in the game.

 

[dblack]

When and where has libertarianism actually been implemented? You lot can't even agree on what it is. Ask two "libertarians" what "libertarianism" means, and they'll end up arguing with each other...if one of them doesn't draw down on the other first.

So someone please show me a country, a state, a town, a compound in the woods somewhere - any gathering of more than one Grizzly Adams type surrounded by his harem - in which the "principles of libertarianism" - whatever those might be at any given moment - have been implemented and actually functioned in the Real World.

Libertarianism isn't evil. It's infantile.

Its like Communism is in that, at first blush, it sounds ideal and idyllic. But, like Communism, its not workable.

In the final analysis, it is a way for the lazy minded to be critical while not having any skin in the game.

It's definitely an attempt to avoid the statist skin game.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

When and where has libertarianism actually been implemented? You lot can't even agree on what it is. Ask two "libertarians" what "libertarianism" means, and they'll end up arguing with each other...if one of them doesn't draw down on the other first.

So someone please show me a country, a state, a town, a compound in the woods somewhere - any gathering of more than one Grizzly Adams type surrounded by his harem - in which the "principles of libertarianism" - whatever those might be at any given moment - have been implemented and actually functioned in the Real World.

Libertarianism isn't evil. It's infantile.

Its like Communism is in that, at first blush, it sounds ideal and idyllic. But, like Communism, its not workable.

In the final analysis, it is a way for the lazy minded to be critical while not having any skin in the game.

It's definitely an attempt to avoid the statist skin game.

Cop out.

I simply believe one should carry one's own weight.

I also believe there are times when people do need help. As human beings, we should provide that help.

Hypocrites like TK say they're "christians" so naturally, they think they should be taken care of while children are left to starve in the street.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I simply believe one should carry one's own weight.

Lies.

Do you really believe that?

 

[Uncensored2008]

The fact that libertarians are willing to look the other way in the name of libertarianism is well established

The fact that you lie incessantly and hence have nothing to add to this, or any conversation is well established, shitflinger.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Hypocrites like TK say they're "christians" so naturally, they think they should be taken care of while children are left to starve in the street.

So how many children have you taken off the streets to feed in your home? How many of them have you adopted? Please edify us on your feats of altruism.

How much money have you donated to help the poor and the needy? Time to spare us the moral indignance and back your claim up. Please, show us how much of a saint you really are.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The silence is deafening.

 

[dblack]

When and where has libertarianism actually been implemented? You lot can't even agree on what it is. Ask two "libertarians" what "libertarianism" means, and they'll end up arguing with each other...if one of them doesn't draw down on the other first.

So someone please show me a country, a state, a town, a compound in the woods somewhere - any gathering of more than one Grizzly Adams type surrounded by his harem - in which the "principles of libertarianism" - whatever those might be at any given moment - have been implemented and actually functioned in the Real World.

Libertarianism isn't evil. It's infantile.

Its like Communism is in that, at first blush, it sounds ideal and idyllic. But, like Communism, its not workable.

In the final analysis, it is a way for the lazy minded to be critical while not having any skin in the game.

It's definitely an attempt to avoid the statist skin game.

Cop out.

I simply believe one should carry one's own weight.

I also believe there are times when people do need help. As human beings, we should provide that help.

Hypocrites like TK say they're "christians" so naturally, they think they should be taken care of while children are left to starve in the street.

I believe government should protect us from bullies, and not be the bully. Some seem to think that as long as "it's for a good cause" or "the will of the majority", it's fine to use government to dictate individual behavior. It's a question of whether we want government that functions as a referee, or on that takes on the role of 'boss'.

 

[Norman]

The big failing in libertariansm is that they think that pointing out facts and logic is going to change behavior.

Well, it doesn't. You can say to a cat that crossing roads is dangerous all day, but it won't understand that. Similarly, liberal regressives will always steal. Only guns and rhetoric can stop them.

 

[Centinel]

Hmm. I've been reading this conversation in depth...

It would seem to me that both systems, the form of society libertarianism presents, and the form of society those advocating governance present, can be used to commit aggression against or used to exploit the person.

Libertarians oppose the violation (or threat to violate) the person or property of others.

 

[Flash]

Libertarianism isn't evil. It's infantile.

No you have it wrong.

Liberalism is liberty.

Government always sucks because it is not in the nature of humans to limit power so invariably it gets out of control, bloated and strips freedom.

Government has a limited legitimate role. Defense, courts, police etc. The community services that benefits everybody somewhat equally and is necessary for a civilized and well ordered society.

Libertarians believe in keeping the size and scope of government to that necessary level and that is a mature approach.

It is oppressive when government is in the business of regulating everything in a person's life and taking money away from those that earn it and giving it away to those that didn't earn it.

Liberalism tells the welfare queens, the Solyndra executives, failed GM and the illegal aliens that the free ride is over and that is always a good thing, don't you agree?