How do the non-spiritual explain it?

[edthecynic]

Physical was caused by Spiritual, it's the only way Physical can exist.

Wrong, the "spiritual" was created by the physical, it is the only proven way the spiritual has existed, music is an example of the spiritual created by the physical. There is no example of the spiritual creating the physical.

 

[edthecynic]

"The mind" is not something physical, is it? Where does it come from? The brain? The oxygenated blood cells in the brain? Electricity firing between neurons? No denying the mind exists, it's just not a 'physical' thing.

The mind cannot exist without those physical things. The brain, oxygenated blood, neurons all had to exist FIRAT before the mind could exist. You are ass backwards!

 

[edthecynic]

Infinite is not a value. It means the value is unlimited.

Idiot!

 

[dblack]

Setting aside the various criticisms of religious beliefs for a moment, and pretending the whimsical dismissal of God is perfectly 'natural' for man and all... how do the non-spiritualists explain the following....

Astral projection experiences.
Near-death experiences.
Transcendental meditation.
ESP and telepathy.
Ghost stories and paranormal experiences.
Other unexplained supernatural phenomenon.
Spells, curses and black magic.
Edgar Cayce.
Nostradamus.
Prophecy in general.

Is every single bit of it a bunch of hooey caused by our fears and imagination?

To me, it just seems as if there might be something more here. Especially in the case of people like Edgar Cayce. If you've never studied up on him, it's worth a search and read... fascinating man. His uncanny ability to predict the future was beyond anything we've ever known. He gave over 14k readings but that includes a brief period where he didn't do them because he was getting headaches. People were exploiting his power to win horse races and trade stock and he believed this was why he was getting the headaches. After some time, he did more readings but only his trusted wife was allowed to ask him questions.

Can our physical sciences understand this?

Human imagination and creativity. Nothing more.

And nothing less.

 

[Muhammed]

Transcendental meditation - just smoke weed. It's easier.

I disagree. Smoking dope does not make it easier.

I've been practicing TM for over 30 years.

Why do you guys put your middle fingers to your thumbs while meditating? I try meditating in the steam room and sauna at the gym and I'm more comfortable with my hands relaxed. Is there a reason for doing that with your thumbs and fingers? What's that all about?

It's sort of a Pavlov's dog type of reaction. My theory is that if your body gets used to meditating while in a certain position, then it will be faster and easier to enter a deep level of meditation while you are in that position. Your body simply expects it.

If you are uncomfortable in that position, then try something else. Personally, I usually meditate while lying flat on my back with my hands on my chest.

What matters the most when you are a beginner is that you are very comfortable and have your body in a consistent position every time.

I'll put my hands palm down on my knees legs crossed. What should I be thinking? Nothing? About something? Help!

Concentrate on nothing, or a mantra or your breathing until you suddenly feel a falling sensation.

It's scary because it's scary to be falling. So you probably will not get to a deep state of meditation right away.

 

[Boss]

Infinite is not a value. It means the value is unlimited.

Idiot!

I don't understand why you think that is idiotic. Infinite is not a value!

The universe cannot be eternal unless Isaac Newton's Laws of Motion are incorrect. The universe is in motion.

At what temperature will all motion in the universe stop?

Newton says the universe will remain in motion until some opposing force acts upon it.

we have the law of thermodynamic entropy. This totally contradicts an eternal universe.

How many times are you going to repeat that lie?

It's not a lie. I'm going to repeat this scientific principle as long as I need to. You can't have an eternal universe until you resolve the entropy problem.

 

[edthecynic]

Infinite is not a value. It means the value is unlimited.

Idiot!

I don't understand why you think that is idiotic. Infinite is not a value!
You just said the value is "unlimited" idiot!

The universe cannot be eternal unless Isaac Newton's Laws of Motion are incorrect. The universe is in motion.

At what temperature will all motion in the universe stop?

Newton says the universe will remain in motion until some opposing force acts upon it.
So then the universe will remain in motion eternally.

we have the law of thermodynamic entropy. This totally contradicts an eternal universe.

How many times are you going to repeat that lie?

It's not a lie. I'm going to repeat this scientific principle as long as I need to. You can't have an eternal universe until you resolve the entropy problem.

There is NO entropy problem, if you actually understood entropy rather than mindlessly parrot some dishonest creationist.
We went over this in other threads, so you can't pretend to be too stupid to know you are lying.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Given the givens

yet you continue to deny there is a giver.......

 

[PostmodernProph]

I'm OK with people being "spiritual" its when they turn into organized religions that claim everyone else is going to hell

imagine you find yourself trapped behind a locked door......you are okay with people knowing where the key is, but you are not okay with them telling you where to find it.......

 

[sealybobo]

I'm OK with people being "spiritual" its when they turn into organized religions that claim everyone else is going to hell

imagine you find yourself trapped behind a locked door......you are okay with people knowing where the key is, but you are not okay with them telling you where to find it.......

But they keep telling me its right in front of my face and I don't see it. See that's your problem. You think you know where the key is but it really isnt there. You want me to believe YOU? As if you know anything. Don't show me your 1600 year old book I'm not buying it.

Or I found the key you are referring to but its not the real key. A Muslim told me to grab another key and it too doesn't work.

 

[PostmodernProph]

I'm OK with people being "spiritual" its when they turn into organized religions that claim everyone else is going to hell

imagine you find yourself trapped behind a locked door......you are okay with people knowing where the key is, but you are not okay with them telling you where to find it.......

But they keep telling me its right in front of my face and I don't see it. See that's your problem. You think you know where the key is but it really isnt there. You want me to believe YOU? As if you know anything. Don't show me your 1600 year old book I'm not buying it.

Or I found the key you are referring to but its not the real key. A Muslim told me to grab another key and it too doesn't work.

but that isn't true.....you see the key, you just don't like it......instead of being shaped like a B for belief, you want it to be shaped like a W for works....the long and short of it is this, you are free to choose whichever key you want.....but stop getting all pissy just because the lock doesn't change to comply with your choice.......

 

[sealybobo]

I'm OK with people being "spiritual" its when they turn into organized religions that claim everyone else is going to hell

imagine you find yourself trapped behind a locked door......you are okay with people knowing where the key is, but you are not okay with them telling you where to find it.......

But they keep telling me its right in front of my face and I don't see it. See that's your problem. You think you know where the key is but it really isnt there. You want me to believe YOU? As if you know anything. Don't show me your 1600 year old book I'm not buying it.

Or I found the key you are referring to but its not the real key. A Muslim told me to grab another key and it too doesn't work.

but that isn't true.....you see the key, you just don't like it......instead of being shaped like a B for belief, you want it to be shaped like a W for works....the long and short of it is this, you are free to choose whichever key you want.....but stop getting all pissy just because the lock doesn't change to comply with your choice.......

What do you want from me the key you give me doesnt work. If your god wants me to believe help me. You don't think I want to get out of the closet?

I guess you'd have to understand what its like to not be gullable wishful thinking irrational or brainwashed to understand what I'm saying.

 

[PostmodernProph]

I'm OK with people being "spiritual" its when they turn into organized religions that claim everyone else is going to hell

imagine you find yourself trapped behind a locked door......you are okay with people knowing where the key is, but you are not okay with them telling you where to find it.......

But they keep telling me its right in front of my face and I don't see it. See that's your problem. You think you know where the key is but it really isnt there. You want me to believe YOU? As if you know anything. Don't show me your 1600 year old book I'm not buying it.

Or I found the key you are referring to but its not the real key. A Muslim told me to grab another key and it too doesn't work.

but that isn't true.....you see the key, you just don't like it......instead of being shaped like a B for belief, you want it to be shaped like a W for works....the long and short of it is this, you are free to choose whichever key you want.....but stop getting all pissy just because the lock doesn't change to comply with your choice.......

What do you want from me the key you give me doesnt work. If your god wants me to believe help me. You don't think I want to get out of the closet?

First, I didn't make the key or give it to you.....I just told you where it was......second, you don't know if it works or not.....all you know is that you don't like it......you want a different key, one you made for yourself......and no....I don't think you want to get out of the closet.....not if you can't get out under your own terms instead of God's.....which probably explains why he doesn't think you'd make very good company for eternity......

 

[Carla_Danger]

I'm OK with people being "spiritual" its when they turn into organized religions that claim everyone else is going to hell

imagine you find yourself trapped behind a locked door......you are okay with people knowing where the key is, but you are not okay with them telling you where to find it.......

But they keep telling me its right in front of my face and I don't see it. See that's your problem. You think you know where the key is but it really isnt there. You want me to believe YOU? As if you know anything. Don't show me your 1600 year old book I'm not buying it.

Or I found the key you are referring to but its not the real key. A Muslim told me to grab another key and it too doesn't work.

but that isn't true.....you see the key, you just don't like it......instead of being shaped like a B for belief, you want it to be shaped like a W for works....the long and short of it is this, you are free to choose whichever key you want.....but stop getting all pissy just because the lock doesn't change to comply with your choice.......

What do you want from me the key you give me doesnt work. If your god wants me to believe help me. You don't think I want to get out of the closet?

First, I didn't make the key or give it to you.....I just told you where it was......second, you don't know if it works or not.....all you know is that you don't like it......you want a different key, one you made for yourself......and no....I don't think you want to get out of the closet.....not if you can't get out under your own terms instead of God's.....which probably explains why he doesn't think you'd make very good company for eternity......

You don't know where the key is located, or if there is even a key.

Do you know how I know this?

Because I don't know where the key is, or if there is even a key.

You do not possess any magical key seeing abilities that I don't have.

All you have is an ancient book, full of weird, bizarre, and even creepy stories, passed down from one generation to the next.

 

[PostmodernProph]

.....Because I don't know where the key is......
All you have is an ancient book, full of weird, bizarre, and even creepy stories, passed down from one generation to the next.

it's not that creepy.....John3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God......hardly registers a single blip on the creep-o-meter.......

 

[Carla_Danger]

.....Because I don't know where the key is......
All you have is an ancient book, full of weird, bizarre, and even creepy stories, passed down from one generation to the next.

it's not that creepy.....John3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God......hardly registers a single blip on the creep-o-meter.......

Have you read the book of Revelation, better known as Apocalypse Now?

 

[Carla_Danger]

 

[amrchaos]

.....Because I don't know where the key is......
All you have is an ancient book, full of weird, bizarre, and even creepy stories, passed down from one generation to the next.

it's not that creepy.....John3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God......hardly registers a single blip on the creep-o-meter.......

Not to you because you think God is presenting this.

But to non-believers, we realize it is the author "John" who may not be the disciple John!

Your creep-meter--at zero
Our creep-meter--broken.

 

[PostmodernProph]

.....Because I don't know where the key is......
All you have is an ancient book, full of weird, bizarre, and even creepy stories, passed down from one generation to the next.

it's not that creepy.....John3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God......hardly registers a single blip on the creep-o-meter.......

Have you read the book of Revelation, better known as Apocalypse Now?

start a thread to discuss it if you wish....we were discussing a key to a locked door......

 

[PostmodernProph]

.....Because I don't know where the key is......
All you have is an ancient book, full of weird, bizarre, and even creepy stories, passed down from one generation to the next.

it's not that creepy.....John3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God......hardly registers a single blip on the creep-o-meter.......

Not to you because you think God is presenting this.

But to non-believers, we realize it is the author "John" who may not be the disciple John!

Your creep-meter--at zero
Our creep-meter--broken.

look children, this isn't that complicated....Silly asked about the "key" of Christianity......I answered his question.....now you can all get in a line and tell us you don't want no ******* key, but nobody cares.....it doesn't change the answer to his question.....