How do the non-spiritual explain it?

[Hollie]

Every astrophysicist on the planet agrees the universe is finely tuned. ~Boss

Find one who disputes it.

Victor Strenger and Fred C Adams don't. In fact they argue against it. They are both astrophysics.

though they admittedly have to presume non-carbon based life forms to get around its necessity.......

So we can agree your goofy comment was pointless and a waste of time.

 

[Hollie]

In reality, you don't understand the concept of burden of proof.

Reality? You mean the perceptions we have of 4% of the universe? Largely based on math and physics which are finely tuned mechanisms making the whole thing work, cosmological constants which apply to everything from the most distant galaxies to genetic reproduction of life.

A reality we experience through our five senses, none of which we are superior at among the species on our own planet. The most important sense we have is sight, it is where observation comes from and this often confirms discovery. Sight is simply our perception of something we call "light" reflecting off objects and appearing as particles when observed or waves when not. Spooky!

But the real kicker is this... You can't prove reality exists. You can only prove that it once existed.

No, I mean the reality that you also don't understand the concept of burden of proof.

 

[Boss]

Dictionaries don't define words...

What a ******* moron.

 

[Boss]

Every astrophysicist on the planet agrees the universe is finely tuned. ~Boss

Find one who disputes it.

Victor Strenger and Fred C Adams don't. In fact they argue against it. They are both astrophysics.

They argue against a finely tuned universe by claiming our finely tuned universe is but one of many universes and it coincidentally happens to be fine tuned.

 

[sealybobo]

Every astrophysicist on the planet agrees the universe is finely tuned. ~Boss

Find one who disputes it.

Victor Strenger and Fred C Adams don't. In fact they argue against it. They are both astrophysics.

They argue against a finely tuned universe by claiming our finely tuned universe is but one of many universes and it coincidentally happens to be fine tuned.

If it wasn't the way it is we wouldn't be here.

What does that mean its fine tuned? You mean it works? If it didn't you wouldn't be here.

There's life on billions of other planets. How do I know? Well I don't just feel it. It seems very probable.

 

[Boss]

If it wasn't the way it is we wouldn't be here.

What does that mean its fine tuned? You mean it works? If it didn't you wouldn't be here.

There's life on billions of other planets. How do I know? Well I don't just feel it. It seems very probable.

It's not just that it works, it's that if any cosmic constant parameter were off by a micro-fraction, it wouldn't exist.... none of it would exist.



As for you knowing things because you feel them... this is not how science works, this is how FAITH works. Just so you know.

 

[Hollie]

Every astrophysicist on the planet agrees the universe is finely tuned. ~Boss

Find one who disputes it.

Victor Strenger and Fred C Adams don't. In fact they argue against it. They are both astrophysics.

They argue against a finely tuned universe by claiming our finely tuned universe is but one of many universes and it coincidentally happens to be fine tuned.

The universe is not finely tuned. It's actually a very violent place. The illusion of a benign, ordered "finely tuned" universe is primarily an artifact of scale. We live in a profoundly violent and chaotic universe, but are spared direct experience with most of that chaos because it occurs on cosmic and geologic time scales, while we exist on a human time scale. This (luckily for us) means most of us expend our lifetimes in the brief moments of calm between supernovae, asteroid impact, and cometary bombardment. A perfect universe hardly requires mass extinctions via meteor impact. Remember Shoemaker-Levy? Ever hear of that little dalliance that occurred on this planet 65 million years so.

Pass that on to your friends at the Kingdom Hall.

 

[Hollie]

If it wasn't the way it is we wouldn't be here.

What does that mean its fine tuned? You mean it works? If it didn't you wouldn't be here.

There's life on billions of other planets. How do I know? Well I don't just feel it. It seems very probable.

It's not just that it works, it's that if any cosmic constant parameter were off by a micro-fraction, it wouldn't exist.... none of it would exist.

And if today was Tuesday, it wouldn't be Monday. But it is Monday.

Amazing, huh?

 

[Boss]

Every astrophysicist on the planet agrees the universe is finely tuned. ~Boss

Find one who disputes it.

Victor Strenger and Fred C Adams don't. In fact they argue against it. They are both astrophysics.

They argue against a finely tuned universe by claiming our finely tuned universe is but one of many universes and it coincidentally happens to be fine tuned.

The universe is not finely tuned. It's actually a very violent place. The illusion of a benign, ordered "finely tuned" universe is primarily an artifact of scale. We live in a profoundly violent and chaotic universe, but are spared direct experience with most of that chaos because it occurs on cosmic and geologic time scales, while we exist on a human time scale. This (luckily for us) means most of us expend our lifetimes in the brief moments of calm between supernovae, asteroid impact, and cometary bombardment. A perfect universe hardly requires mass extinctions via meteor impact. Remember Shoemaker-Levy? Ever hear of that little dalliance that occurred on this planet 65 million years so.

IF the cosmological constant were off by 1 to 10^120 the universe would not exist. If the gravitational constant were greater or less by 1 to 10^60, the stars and planets would have never formed... the universe would not exist.

None of this has anything to do with how vulnerable we are to the forces of the universe or how violent they can be.

 

[dblack]

Setting aside the various criticisms of religious beliefs for a moment, and pretending the whimsical dismissal of God is perfectly 'natural' for man and all... how do the non-spiritualists explain the following....

Astral projection experiences.
Near-death experiences.
Transcendental meditation.
ESP and telepathy.
Ghost stories and paranormal experiences.
Other unexplained supernatural phenomenon.
Spells, curses and black magic.
Edgar Cayce.
Nostradamus.
Prophecy in general.

How do I explain them? Well, I don't. That's why they're 'unexplained'. I suppose I could come up with completely unfounded claims to explain them, and then insist that those claims be taken seriously unless someone can prove them false. But why bother?

Is every single bit of it a bunch of hooey caused by our fears and imagination?

Maybe. There's probably something to some of them though. Right now we don't really know though.

To me, it just seems as if there might be something more here. Especially in the case of people like Edgar Cayce. If you've never studied up on him, it's worth a search and read... fascinating man. His uncanny ability to predict the future was beyond anything we've ever known. He gave over 14k readings but that includes a brief period where he didn't do them because he was getting headaches. People were exploiting his power to win horse races and trade stock and he believed this was why he was getting the headaches. After some time, he did more readings but only his trusted wife was allowed to ask him questions.

Interesting. I'll check it out.

 

[sealybobo]

If it wasn't the way it is we wouldn't be here.

What does that mean its fine tuned? You mean it works? If it didn't you wouldn't be here.

There's life on billions of other planets. How do I know? Well I don't just feel it. It seems very probable.

It's not just that it works, it's that if any cosmic constant parameter were off by a micro-fraction, it wouldn't exist.... none of it would exist.



As for you knowing things because you feel them... this is not how science works, this is how FAITH works. Just so you know.

And there are many planets where life doesn't exist because they arent in the goldilocks zone.

And if your dad pulled out you'd have never been born just like the millions of sperm in your dads balls that didn't result in a brother or sister.

Or the baby croc that gets eaten by a bird but its sister lives 60 years. Both baby crocs prayed they'd make it to adulthood. Did god save the one and take the other to croc heaven?

Can't you tell this is all just wishful thinking? A coping mechanism.

God isn't even a theory. A theory requires evidence. Your god doesnt even qualify. Its just a hypothesis.

 

[Boss]

The universe is not finely tuned.

Says no one who has any science education on cosmology.

 

[sealybobo]

Setting aside the various criticisms of religious beliefs for a moment, and pretending the whimsical dismissal of God is perfectly 'natural' for man and all... how do the non-spiritualists explain the following....

Astral projection experiences.
Near-death experiences.
Transcendental meditation.
ESP and telepathy.
Ghost stories and paranormal experiences.
Other unexplained supernatural phenomenon.
Spells, curses and black magic.
Edgar Cayce.
Nostradamus.
Prophecy in general.

How do I explain them? Well, I don't. That's why they're 'unexplained'. I suppose I could come up with completely unfounded claims to explain them, and then insist that those claims be taken seriously unless someone can prove them false. But why bother?

Is every single bit of it a bunch of hooey caused by our fears and imagination?

Maybe. There's probably something to some of them though. Right now we don't really know though.

To me, it just seems as if there might be something more here. Especially in the case of people like Edgar Cayce. If you've never studied up on him, it's worth a search and read... fascinating man. His uncanny ability to predict the future was beyond anything we've ever known. He gave over 14k readings but that includes a brief period where he didn't do them because he was getting headaches. People were exploiting his power to win horse races and trade stock and he believed this was why he was getting the headaches. After some time, he did more readings but only his trusted wife was allowed to ask him questions.

Interesting. I'll check it out.

Never scientifically tested or verified. Hooey.

 

[Hollie]

Every astrophysicist on the planet agrees the universe is finely tuned. ~Boss

Find one who disputes it.

Victor Strenger and Fred C Adams don't. In fact they argue against it. They are both astrophysics.

They argue against a finely tuned universe by claiming our finely tuned universe is but one of many universes and it coincidentally happens to be fine tuned.

The universe is not finely tuned. It's actually a very violent place. The illusion of a benign, ordered "finely tuned" universe is primarily an artifact of scale. We live in a profoundly violent and chaotic universe, but are spared direct experience with most of that chaos because it occurs on cosmic and geologic time scales, while we exist on a human time scale. This (luckily for us) means most of us expend our lifetimes in the brief moments of calm between supernovae, asteroid impact, and cometary bombardment. A perfect universe hardly requires mass extinctions via meteor impact. Remember Shoemaker-Levy? Ever hear of that little dalliance that occurred on this planet 65 million years so.

IF the cosmological constant were off by 1 to 10^120 the universe would not exist. If the gravitational constant were greater or less by 1 to 10^60, the stars and planets would have never formed... the universe would not exist.

None of this has anything to do with how vulnerable we are to the forces of the universe or how violent they can be.

But the "cosmological constant" is not off by 1 to 10^120.

How interesting (and predictable) that you sidestepped addressing the fact of a profoundly violent and chaotic universe that refutes your silly "perfectly tuned" meme.

Really, bossy, your pals at the Institute for Creation Research are making you appear to be quite the raving christian fundamentalist.

 

[sealybobo]

Every astrophysicist on the planet agrees the universe is finely tuned. ~Boss

Find one who disputes it.

Victor Strenger and Fred C Adams don't. In fact they argue against it. They are both astrophysics.

They argue against a finely tuned universe by claiming our finely tuned universe is but one of many universes and it coincidentally happens to be fine tuned.

The universe is not finely tuned. It's actually a very violent place. The illusion of a benign, ordered "finely tuned" universe is primarily an artifact of scale. We live in a profoundly violent and chaotic universe, but are spared direct experience with most of that chaos because it occurs on cosmic and geologic time scales, while we exist on a human time scale. This (luckily for us) means most of us expend our lifetimes in the brief moments of calm between supernovae, asteroid impact, and cometary bombardment. A perfect universe hardly requires mass extinctions via meteor impact. Remember Shoemaker-Levy? Ever hear of that little dalliance that occurred on this planet 65 million years so.

IF the cosmological constant were off by 1 to 10^120 the universe would not exist. If the gravitational constant were greater or less by 1 to 10^60, the stars and planets would have never formed... the universe would not exist.

None of this has anything to do with how vulnerable we are to the forces of the universe or how violent they can be.

I enjoy talking to you so much more than christians Muslim Jews.

 

[Boss]

As for you knowing things because you feel them... this is not how science works, this is how FAITH works. Just so you know.

And there are many planets where life doesn't exist because they arent in the goldilocks zone.

Let's set the record straight... There has never been any life discovered elsewhere in our universe. Until we discover it elsewhere, we can't say that it exists elsewhere. You are merely speculating based on a feeling... that's FAITH, not Science.

 

[sealybobo]

Every astrophysicist on the planet agrees the universe is finely tuned. ~Boss

Find one who disputes it.

Victor Strenger and Fred C Adams don't. In fact they argue against it. They are both astrophysics.

They argue against a finely tuned universe by claiming our finely tuned universe is but one of many universes and it coincidentally happens to be fine tuned.

The universe is not finely tuned. It's actually a very violent place. The illusion of a benign, ordered "finely tuned" universe is primarily an artifact of scale. We live in a profoundly violent and chaotic universe, but are spared direct experience with most of that chaos because it occurs on cosmic and geologic time scales, while we exist on a human time scale. This (luckily for us) means most of us expend our lifetimes in the brief moments of calm between supernovae, asteroid impact, and cometary bombardment. A perfect universe hardly requires mass extinctions via meteor impact. Remember Shoemaker-Levy? Ever hear of that little dalliance that occurred on this planet 65 million years so.

IF the cosmological constant were off by 1 to 10^120 the universe would not exist. If the gravitational constant were greater or less by 1 to 10^60, the stars and planets would have never formed... the universe would not exist.

None of this has anything to do with how vulnerable we are to the forces of the universe or how violent they can be.

But the "cosmological constant" is not off by 1 to 10^120.

How interesting (and predictable) that you sidestepped addressing the fact of a profoundly violent and chaotic universe that refutes your silly "perfectly tuned" meme.

Really, bossy, your pals at the Institute for Creation Research are making you appear to be quite the raving christian fundamentalist.

I thought he wasn't a christian. If he is he's a cherry picker. Boss are you a christian?

 

[Hollie]

The universe is not finely tuned.

Says no one who has any science education on cosmology.

I wouldn't hold up your pals at the Institute for Creation Research as having a working education in cosmology.

 

[sealybobo]

As for you knowing things because you feel them... this is not how science works, this is how FAITH works. Just so you know.

And there are many planets where life doesn't exist because they arent in the goldilocks zone.

Let's set the record straight... There has never been any life discovered elsewhere in our universe. Until we discover it elsewhere, we can't say that it exists elsewhere. You are merely speculating based on a feeling... that's FAITH, not Science.

So you believe a fairytale without proof but doubt the high probability that life is not rare in the universe?

 

[Hollie]

As for you knowing things because you feel them... this is not how science works, this is how FAITH works. Just so you know.

And there are many planets where life doesn't exist because they arent in the goldilocks zone.

Let's set the record straight... There has never been any life discovered elsewhere in our universe. Until we discover it elsewhere, we can't say that it exists elsewhere. You are merely speculating based on a feeling... that's FAITH, not Science.

Much like your belief in magical spirit realms inhabited by supernatural gawds which you insist you have daily communications with.