How do the non-spiritual explain it?

[Yarddog]

That there are 0% events that can be objectively verified as being the work of supernature? Yup.

If all the cases could be explained by physical nature, none of the areas I mentioned would amount to anything.

What part of 'the work of supernature' did you not understand?

I had a hard time understanding that part

 

[Boss]

That there are 0% events that can be objectively verified as being the work of supernature? Yup.

I can give you one.. Origin of the universe.

Want another one? Origin of life.

It can be objectively verified both things happened and physical nature doesn't/can't explain them. This means, objectively, it must be "supernature."

 

[Yarddog]

That there are 0% events that can be objectively verified as being the work of supernature? Yup.

I can give you one.. Origin of the universe.

Want another one? Origin of life.

It can be objectively verified both things happened and physical nature doesn't/can't explain them. This means, objectively, it must be "supernature."

yep Origin of energy, laws of attraction, origin of matter, all that

 

[cnm]

I can give you one.. Origin of the universe.

Want another one? Origin of life.

It can be objectively verified both things happened and physical nature doesn't/can't explain them. This means, objectively, it must be "supernature."

Why must those be the work of 'supernature'? That we don't precisely know what happened doesn't mean 'the spirits did it' which seems to be the point you're trying to make.

Especially since all/most of the events previously ascribed to 'spirits or gods' - take thunder and lightning as an example - have been shown to have 'natural' causes.

 

[cnm]

All you have to do is indicate some double blind trials and your point is carried.

 

[Boss]

I can give you one.. Origin of the universe.

Want another one? Origin of life.

It can be objectively verified both things happened and physical nature doesn't/can't explain them. This means, objectively, it must be "supernature."

Why must those be the work of 'supernature'? That we don't precisely know what happened doesn't mean 'the spirits did it' which seems to be the point you're trying to make.

Especially since all/most of the events previously ascribed to 'spirits or gods' - take thunder and lightning as an example - have been shown to have 'natural' causes.

It's not a matter of not knowing, it's a matter of what we know through science is possible. Physics says that matter cannot create itself. Biology says life only comes from life. Our science answers the question of origin in both the case of the universe and life, and it says that it's not physically possible. By definition, if it cannot be by physical nature it must be by "supernature" ...we're out of options.

 

[Boss]

All you have to do is indicate some double blind trials and your point is carried.

You can try all the double trials you please as soon as you find something in nature to try when it comes to originating matter or life. So far, we've never discovered anything in physical nature to explain it or to try. You said: zero events that can be objectively verified as being the work of supernature. I gave you two. Origin of the Universe and Origin of Life. Now you seem to want us to apply physical science evaluation to the supernature which it can't apply to. What causes your brain to do that, retardation?

 

[Hollie]

All you have to do is indicate some double blind trials and your point is carried.

You can try all the double trials you please as soon as you find something in nature to try when it comes to originating matter or life. So far, we've never discovered anything in physical nature to explain it or to try. You said: zero events that can be objectively verified as being the work of supernature. I gave you two. Origin of the Universe and Origin of Life. Now you seem to want us to apply physical science evaluation to the supernature which it can't apply to. What causes your brain to do that, retardation?

Be satisfied that your fears and superstitions are placated by belief in magic and supernaturalism.

"The gawds did it". That addresses all you need to know.

 

[MaxGrit]

All you have to do is indicate some double blind trials and your point is carried.

hahahahahahah

Do you need double blind trials to let you know if you feel pain after stubbing your foot against a chair?

 

[MaxGrit]

All you have to do is indicate some double blind trials and your point is carried.

You can try all the double trials you please as soon as you find something in nature to try when it comes to originating matter or life. So far, we've never discovered anything in physical nature to explain it or to try. You said: zero events that can be objectively verified as being the work of supernature. I gave you two. Origin of the Universe and Origin of Life. Now you seem to want us to apply physical science evaluation to the supernature which it can't apply to. What causes your brain to do that, retardation?

Be satisfied that your fears and superstitions are placated by belief in magic and supernaturalism.

"The gawds did it". That addresses all you need to know.

One true God exists as a Trinity.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Setting aside the various criticisms of religious beliefs for a moment, and pretending the whimsical dismissal of God is perfectly 'natural' for man and all... how do the non-spiritualists explain the following....

Astral projection experiences.
Near-death experiences.
Transcendental meditation.
ESP and telepathy.
Ghost stories and paranormal experiences.
Other unexplained supernatural phenomenon.
Spells, curses and black magic.
Edgar Cayce.
Nostradamus.
Prophecy in general.

Is every single bit of it a bunch of hooey caused by our fears and imagination?

To me, it just seems as if there might be something more here. Especially in the case of people like Edgar Cayce. If you've never studied up on him, it's worth a search and read... fascinating man. His uncanny ability to predict the future was beyond anything we've ever known. He gave over 14k readings but that includes a brief period where he didn't do them because he was getting headaches. People were exploiting his power to win horse races and trade stock and he believed this was why he was getting the headaches. After some time, he did more readings but only his trusted wife was allowed to ask him questions.

Can our physical sciences understand this?

That is evidence of Satan's existence. Astral projection, Edgar Cayce, Nostradamus, TM, false near death experiences brought about by demonic visions, voices, etc. All the Occult. Anyone who is involved with the occult must repent of it and turn from it completely and come to Jesus Christ for salvation. Otherwise they will be in hell eternally. You need to be born again, Boss. You're lost.

 

[Inevitable]

Lol, if we can't perceive things outside of our perception. So what point is there in talking about such things?

Because the things we don't perceive can still effect us.

We have no perception of tiny living microbes in our milk, that's why we have it pasteurized. If not, we'd drink the microbes, get sick and die. It wouldn't do us much good to refuse to speak of such things.

Bull shit we have plenty of perception of micro organisms.

Things we don't perceive cannot be perceived. I don't see how there would be any effect on us whatsoever.

We didn't have perception of them until Louis Pasteur found a way to observe them. We can't see them with regular human vision and they can kill us. And they did kill us, and people thought supernatural forces were at play because people drank the milk and died. When Pasteur discovered microbes, people thought he was out of his mind.

The point is still there. Something existed outside of our perception until we discovered it.

We were able to perceive it. Just because nobody bothered until Pasteur, doesn't mean we didn't have the ability.

 

[Inevitable]

You two have anything to offer or is it just more of the same?

I answered your thread question and you got your panties in a bunch because you didn't like the answer.

If you don't think I have anything to offer stop talking to me.

 

[zaangalewa]

... We were able to perceive it. Just because nobody bothered until Pasteur, doesn't mean we didn't have the ability.

He's speaking about a dimension of quantity you are speaking about a dimension of quality. What about to try to imagine something in a room what is without sharp edges and soft curves? That's impossible although it sounds easy to do so.

 

[zaangalewa]

I can give you one.. Origin of the universe.

Want another one? Origin of life.

It can be objectively verified both things happened and physical nature doesn't/can't explain them. This means, objectively, it must be "supernature."

Why must those be the work of 'supernature'?

There was no nature - then was nature. This point was about 13.8 billion years ago.

That we don't precisely know what happened doesn't mean 'the spirits did it' which seems to be the point you're trying to make.

Perhaps a good question in this context could be: Is mathematics (spirit) creating physics (nature) or is physics (nature) creating mathematics (spirit). Whatever the result of this question will be: Anyway god is the creator of everything and more.

Especially since all/most of the events previously ascribed to 'spirits or gods' - take thunder and lightning as an example - have been shown to have 'natural' causes.

There is only one thing that we fear, namely, that the sky should fall on us.

 

[Boss]

We were able to perceive it. Just because nobody bothered until Pasteur, doesn't mean we didn't have the ability.

Nope. We didn't have the ability then and we don't have the ability now. The human eye cannot see microbes, we need a microscope. Now.... we did have the capability of creating a tool to enhance our ability. And once we've torched your rather childish argument, we get back to the point made... there are many things happening in the universe which we have no perception of.

 

[zaangalewa]

We were able to perceive it. Just because nobody bothered until Pasteur, doesn't mean we didn't have the ability.

Nope. We didn't have the ability then and we don't have the ability now. The human eye cannot see microbes, we need a microscope. Now.... we did have the capability of creating a tool to enhance our ability. And once we've torched your rather childish argument, we get back to the point made... there are many things happening in the universe which we have no perception of.

 

[Boss]

Be satisfied that your fears and superstitions are placated by belief in magic and supernaturalism.

"The gawds did it". That addresses all you need to know.

Actually, it doesn't. I need to know HOW God did it. I develop tools like microscopes and telescopes to help me see how God does it. I developed Physics and Quantum mechanics to help me calculate how God does it. I developed a scientific method to evaluate how God does it.

Meanwhile, you sit shivering in your cave in fear of the fire because you don't understand it.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

When I was in my late teens, I was hitchhiking up the California coast and was picked up by a girl about my age. We hit it off right way and as it was getting late, decided to pull off the side of the road to sleep on a beach somewhere in Mendocino county.

Some time during the night, I had a horrible nightmare, though. It was almost more than a nightmare, because in it, I had a vision of a balding man wearing a hat perched on the cliffs above us intending to kill us both, and in my dream, my perspective kept shifting from me looking up at him, and he looking down at us.

I awoke with a start, looked up and my travelling companion had the most frightened look I have ever seen. One of us said "let's" and the other said "Get out of here", and we ran back to the car and sped off. Once we got in the car, she told me of HER dream, and in that dream she saw a balding man wearing a hat on the cliffs above us intending to kill us and her perspective kept shifting as well. She had the exact same dream at the exact same time and we kept going over and over it with each other and there wasn't a single detail that was different!

Ever since that time, I have been much more willing to believe in matters spiritual.

 

[Boss]

When I was in my late teens, I was hitchhiking up the California coast and was picked up by a girl about my age. We hit it off right way and as it was getting late, decided to pull off the side of the road to sleep on a beach somewhere in Mendocino county.

Some time during the night, I had a horrible nightmare, though. It was almost more than a nightmare, because in it, I had a vision of a balding man wearing a hat perched on the cliffs above us intending to kill us both, and in my dream, my perspective kept shifting from me looking up at him, and he looking down at us.

I awoke with a start, looked up and my travelling companion had the most frightened look I have ever seen. One of us said "let's" and the other said "Get out of here", and we ran back to the car and sped off. Once we got in the car, she told me of HER dream, and in that dream she saw a balding man wearing a hat on the cliffs above us intending to kill us and her perspective kept shifting as well. She had the exact same dream at the exact same time and we kept going over and over it with each other and there wasn't a single detail that was different!

Ever since that time, I have been much more willing to believe in matters spiritual.

Believe it or not, your story is not unusual. These things happen every single day to people all over the world. I have three specific instances in my life, where by all accounts, I should be dead. Physics and science says there is no way I should still be alive, yet here I am. I have to assume it just wasn't my time to go. Oh, I could sit here for an hour and type out all the details, but what's the point? The nay-sayers aren't going to believe it. They will always find some way to dismiss what they don't want to accept.