How can you be religious and at the same time strive for riches? Hypocrisy of sorts?

777

Member
Jun 29, 2004
52
8
Apostle Paul wrote "The love of money is a root of all kinds of evil". How does a person want for all the material possessions for himself and still claim to be a believer of God? (iae. The money not used for common good such as donations, charities, etc.)

In The United States something like 80%(?) of population identify themselves as religious, be it belonging to a particular denomination or just believing in God. The presence of religion in public and private life is ubiquitous, starting from the President of the United States, currency and pledge of allegiance. (I would not have written this thread if American society was largely secular - population largely non-believers).

Then there is the American love affair with money and all it can buy. Undoubtedly, United States is a materialistic society. Many are struck by millionaire-mania, and many others strive to keep up with the Joneses or ever more preferable, topping them in material wealth. At times, one’s worth and level of respect is directly associated with the size of the bank account. People dream about wearing Prada or Gucci, driving fancy cars and living in mansions. I would imagine that these behaviors are not solely exhibited by the 20%(?) of non-religious people. The love of money and ambition for materialistic goals seem to be ingrained in the minds of many Americans. Even some men of God (ministers on TV to name a few) ostentatiously exhibit their wealth. They wear large gold jewelry and expensive watches and live in mansions. Should they not, of all the people, live according to the teachings of the bible?

How can the concepts of a largely materialistic society, largely held belief in God, and by extension belief in values of bible such as “The love of money is a root of all kinds of evil” work in harmony?

Do the people who claim belief in God “forget” Bible's principles that are not convenient for their lives so that they can acquire more and more material wealth without feeling guilt? Alternately, is it that many people claim love for God, but in reality do not live like a good Christian would, essentially making them false believers? I just don't know ... better ideas?

I am not implying that having money, even lots of it, is bad, or that one should not strive for material wealth even if one is religious. It is what a religious person does with it. Does acquiring money become an all-consuming passion (becoming a slave of money)? Is the money used for good purpose or is it used for becoming powerful? Does having money create greed? I.e. how can a religious person avoid becoming victim of money, the root of all evil, in a materialistic society?

After all the ramblings, my point is that I am trying to figure out how “love of money” and “love of God” at the same time can be a harmonious combination.
 
A good life, from a spiritual standpoint, and a material standpoint, are not mutually exclusive.

The deciding factor is whether or not one clings to these riches...When one freely shares the benefits of his or her wealth with those less fortunate the spiritual and material "good life" are compatible.
 
Bullypulpit said:
A good life, from a spiritual standpoint, and a material standpoint, are not mutually exclusive.

The deciding factor is whether or not one clings to these riches...When one freely shares the benefits of his or her wealth with those less fortunate the spiritual and material "good life" are compatible.



Well said, Bully.
 
It matters HOW the money is made. The pursuit of wealth through honest means is fine. Providing a desired and/or necessary good or service is beneficial to mankind.
Like I always say, the market is a needs satisfaction system. Individuals incented to efficiency by the prospect of personal wealth can run the intricacies of business better than brain-dead bureaucratic government officials.

Unleash humanity, unleash capitalism and personal freedom on a global scale!

Eliminate top down, fully planned economies!

Power to the people!

Screw tyranny!
 
Interesting post, 777.
I would say that the prevailing factor is how one treats others. Regardless of one's religious beliefs or material wealth, if one treats others with respect and compassion everything else falls into place.

If you have all the riches in the world but your brothers and sisters are starving, what kind of life are you living? That's where I'm coming from.
 
nycflasher said:
That's where I'm coming from.


Are You coming from montana? In montana I hear all they have is steers and queers. I don't see any horns. Ergo...
 
rtwngAvngr said:
Are You coming from montana? In montana I hear all they have is steers and queers. I don't see any horns. Ergo...

Intelligent comment.
 
Personally I believe spirituality to be the trip-not the destination. People are on various stages of this journey to obtain a sense of meaning and security. Depending on the culture that one is raised in, "security" has different meanings. Being raised in America, a land wit tremendous wealth when compared to the rest of the world, it is quite common for people to come to believe that material things can provide them protection. ( Actually Americans are far from being materialistic as I learned by reading Alan Watts. We consume material things-not worship them. After discovering that a certain piece of material does NOT provide the security that we had hoped for, it is discarded as mere junk.) After going thru the futile process of seeking security in material things and discovering that they cannot provide for the soul, the person can continue neurotically seeking the "right" material or realize the answer must lie elsewhere. Then the second part of the spiritual journey begins and material "wealth" is reduced to its' proper status. Some people learn this and some people don't.
I don't see it so much as a hypocricy as I see it as a dichotomy that when resolved produces a new sense of meaning and purpose. IMHO of course.
 
Probably the answer lies in both how you acquire wealth, and yes what you do with it once you have it. Are you an honest, ethical person? Then what good things do you do with that money. And one more important thing...Being humble enough to know that God was the one that made it possible to have what you have and to always give credit and thanks to that end.

Money is freedom to accomplish great things, and as long as it is a means to an end but not necessarily the end that is the difference.
Example does your quest for money come before marriage and family? Are you acquiring it at the expense of stepping on others? Does it come before your faith and church? Do you become a different person once you have it?
 
rtwngAvngr said:
Are You coming from montana? In montana I hear all they have is steers and queers. I don't see any horns. Ergo...


Hey Flasher. Sorry about this unmotivated personal attack. I was flashing back. :slap:
 
Bullypulpit said:
A good life, from a spiritual standpoint, and a material standpoint, are not mutually exclusive.

The deciding factor is whether or not one clings to these riches...When one freely shares the benefits of his or her wealth with those less fortunate the spiritual and material "good life" are compatible.

nycflasher said:
If you have all the riches in the world but your brothers and sisters are starving, what kind of life are you living? That's where I'm coming from.

Both of you hit it on the head, as far as I am concerned. The love of money is the root of all evil (1 Timothy 6:10), but the possession of money is not evil in itself. If you use your money wisely (cf. Luke 16:1-14), by advancing the Gospel and helping the poor, then you are doing the right thing. But 777, you are correct in saying that you cannot serve both God and Mammon (money/wealth/possessions).

There exists in the Christian world a teaching called the "health and wealth" gospel. This is a non-biblical teaching that basically says that God wants us to be rich, and if we pray about specific things with enough faith, God will give them to us (this is called "name it and claim it."). Frankly, this is a bastardization of the Gospel and it cheapens the grace of God, turning Him into a Santa Claus.
 
gop_jeff said:
Both of you hit it on the head, as far as I am concerned. The love of money is the root of all evil (1 Timothy 6:10), but the possession of money is not evil in itself. If you use your money wisely (cf. Luke 16:1-14), by advancing the Gospel and helping the poor, then you are doing the right thing. But 777, you are correct in saying that you cannot serve both God and Mammon (money/wealth/possessions).

There exists in the Christian world a teaching called the "health and wealth" gospel. This is a non-biblical teaching that basically says that God wants us to be rich, and if we pray about specific things with enough faith, God will give them to us (this is called "name it and claim it."). Frankly, this is a bastardization of the Gospel and it cheapens the grace of God, turning Him into a Santa Claus.

True however, I beleive God gives us wealth to do good things with it so that those he gives wealth to have a chance at getting to heaven. Just like a talent is a gift given to be used wisely and generously for good purpose.
 
If God were against 'weath' he'd likely never felt the need to restore Job 10-fold over what He allowed Satan to take from him.

Just ONE example. God wishes us to prosper - remember, he created this world so Man would have dominion over it; the things in life he's granted - our very lives themselves are for us to enjoy. If having things or experiencing physical weath were bad, why doesn't God just stop creating souls in babies; he should already create us in heaven; so there'd be no need to go thru life here on this world.
 
-=d=- said:
If God were against 'weath' he'd likely never felt the need to restore Job 10-fold over what He allowed Satan to take from him.

Just ONE example. God wishes us to prosper - remember, he created this world so Man would have dominion over it; the things in life he's granted - our very lives themselves are for us to enjoy. If having things or experiencing physical weath were bad, why doesn't God just stop creating souls in babies; he should already create us in heaven; so there'd be no need to go thru life here on this world.

God also wants us to be happy, because happy souls get to heaven. It's very hard to be a giving person of yourself when you are miserable. When we live a life that is not chaotic, we are happy and can then step outside ourselves to see what others need. IMHO
 
Bonnie said:
God also wants us to be happy, because happy souls get to heaven. It's very hard to be a giving person of yourself when you are miserable. When we live a life that is not chaotic, we are happy and can then step outside ourselves to see what others need. IMHO


I'd argue it's when we are miserable that we need to be the most giving.
 
-=d=- said:
I'd argue it's when we are miserable that we need to be the most giving.

True thats when we NEED to be the most giving, but that's when it its the hardest to do so. And therein lies the real challenge. When we are happy it's easy to be a good person, when we are unhappy or stressed it is very easy and natural to become self absorped, and even cynical.
 
777 said:
After all the ramblings, my point is that I am trying to figure out how “love of money” and “love of God” at the same time can be a harmonious combination.


The Old Testament talks about gold, silver and other precious metals which were used for various purposes in the holy tabernacle and later in the actual temple. A seemingly excessive emphasis is placed on the physical and material substances, considering we are dealing with a spiritual matter. How do we explain this?

That's the way the Jewish scholars would approach every line (word or every letter) in trying to decipher the hidden truths of the Old Testament Torah (what I once heard is "a glimpse into the wisdom of G-d"). The story is told of a poor man who, despite his own poverty, would always invite strangers to come into his home and eat a home-cooked meal. His generosity was all the more special due to his own circumstances.

In the merit of these acts of kindness, he was blessed with riches and soon found himself in a large mansion. Now, a change started to occur. Slowly, the poor were no longer welcome in his home. First it was a hint, then a suggestion, finally he would not even let then into his new home lest they spoil the hand-woven white carpets. He was dismissive of their pleas for help, suggesting to them that they should work harder.

As news of his mean behavior spread, he soon found himself shunned by his former friends and colleagues. In despair, he called upon the wise old Rabbi. As they were talking in the mansion, the Rabbi pointed to a huge mirror situated on the wall facing the street, feigning ignorance.

"What a strange window, all I see is myself. Where are all the people on the street?" The man laughed. "Rabbi it is not a window; it is a mirror." "But I don't understand", said the Rabbi, "it is made of glass, like a window." "If it were only glass you would be able to see the other people. But this is a mirror. It has a layer of silver added to it. Now you only see yourself." "Aha" said the wise Rabbi. "Now I see the problem. When you add the silver, all you see is yourself."

So we see that there is nothing wrong with silver as long as it is used in the appropriate and fitting manner. You want to see yourself, you need silver to make a mirror; you want to see the people, silver gets in the way.

That's an Old Testament lesson, which also teaches us that objects which would seem to be very luxurious and materialistic can also be used for the service of G-d. Anything used in the correct manner may be elevated and utilized for holiness, for spiritual purposes.

A wise Jewish man once visited a summer camp where he saw a notice in the office saying "Money is the root of all evil." The Jewish man commented that the sign was incorrect. Money, like anything else, may be used for good or for bad purposes. It all depends on the person using it.

This idea is also brought out by another verse in the Old Testament which says "...they shall make for me a dwelling-place and I shall dwell within them". The Old Testament does not say "within it" but "within them". Very old Jewish teachings explain that "G-d desired a dwelling-place down below in the physical world" a "dirah b'tachtonim" in Hebrew, and that this is achieved through our performance of G-d's commandments, through using the physical and material to achieve the spiritual, we are making a dwelling-place for G-dliness and spirituality and that through this, the Divine Presence dwells "in them" in each and every individual.

So 777 it is within our power, through the use of physical items in this physical world, to draw the Divine into our own everyday lives. And in the process, we can find ourselves experiencing a new dimension of purpose and meaning within our lives. Money is not the root of all evil but a means to good or evil.
 
rtwngAvngr said:
Sentence fragment.

:bat:

LOL, at least my comment was relevant.
Why don't you start a 'steers and queers' thread and we can continue discussing your love for bovines.
 

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