How Can You Be A Socialist….

PoliticalChic

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...and have any self respect?
After all, if your worth is due to that which is taken from someone else, someone who earned it....your value is nothing more than the vote you offer up to your patron, big government.

In full disclosure, the title of the thread is just as cogent if other terms are substituted for 'socialist,' terms such as communist, fascist, Progressive, Nazi or modern Liberal.

1. "Socialism is the end of all invention; it is the happy face of slavery. Mankind are greater gainers by suffering each other to live as seems good to themselves than by compelling each to live as seems good to the rest" - J.S. Mill




2. " Capitalism is the only moral system because it requires human beings to deal with one another as traders–that is, as free moral agents trading and selling goods and services on the basis of mutual consent.

Capitalism is the only just system because the sole criterion that determines the value of thing exchanged is the free, voluntary, universal judgement of the consumer. Coercion and fraud are anathema to the free-market system.

It is both moral and just because the degree to which man rises or falls in society is determined by the degree to which he uses his mind. Capitalism is the only social system that rewards merit, ability and achievement, regardless of one’s birth or station in life."

The requirements for success in a free society demand that ordinary citizens order their lives in accordance with certain virtues–namely, rationality, independence, industriousness, prudence, frugality, etc. In a free capitalist society individuals must choose for themselves how they will order their lives and the values they will pursue. Under socialism, most of life’s decisions are made for you.




3. Under socialism a ruling class of intellectuals, bureaucrats and social planners decide what people want or what is good for society and then use the coercive power of the State to regulate, tax, and redistribute the wealth of those who work for a living. In other words, socialism is a form of legalized theft.

The morality of socialism can be summed-up in two words: envy and self-sacrifice.
Envy is the desire to not only possess another’s wealth but also the desire to see another’s wealth lowered to the level of one’s own.

Socialism’s teaching on self-sacrifice was nicely summarized by two of its greatest defenders, Hermann Goering and Bennito Mussolini.

The highest principle of Nazism (National Socialism), said Goering, is: “Common good comes before private good.”

Fascism, said Mussolini, is ” a life in which the individual, through the sacrifice of his own private interests…realizes that completely spiritual existence in which his value as a man lies.



4. Sadly, America is no longer a capitalist nation. We live under what is more properly called a mixed economy–that is, an economic system that permits private property, but only at the discretion of government planners. A little bit of capitalism and a little bit of socialism.

When government redistributes wealth through taxation, when it attempts to control and regulate business production and trade, who are the winners and losers? Under this kind of economy the winners and losers are reversed: the winners are those who scream the loudest for a handout and the losers are those quiet citizens who work hard and pay their taxes." Socialism vs. Capitalism: Which is the Moral System | Ashbrook



Nazi...national socialism....based on nationalism and/or race...
Communism....international socialism.
 
You mean how people take from the labors of others to profit from?
Your understanding of capitalism is likely warped by Marxist college professors.

No, people exchange labor for money. The money paid for the type of labor depends on the availability of such labor, the skill required, and the competition for that labor.

Everyone still has a choice. Choose to mop floor and clean toilets or chose to gain skills to do labor that pays more.

Everybody is exploiting everyone else. It's not a one-way street. The worker is exploiting the business owner's risk taken to start the enterprise.
 
You mean how people take from the labors of others to profit from?
6d713bbb64e6339c6344da9a572f23d1.jpg
 
You mean how people take from the labors of others to profit from?
Your understanding of capitalism is likely warped by Marxist college professors.

No, people exchange labor for money. The money paid for the type of labor depends on the availability of such labor, the skill required, and the competition for that labor.

Everyone still has a choice. Choose to mop floor and clean toilets or chose to gain skills to do labor that pays more.

Everybody is exploiting everyone else. It's not a one-way street. The worker is exploiting the business owner's risk taken to start the enterprise.

You have a point if it is a small startup company, but a well established business with millions in government tax incentives and giveaways doesn't have much risk to worry about.
 
Capitalism has done the most for the most. Without question. But there will always be those who prefer being serfs who will lean the socialist way.
 
You have a point if it is a small startup company, but a well established business with millions in government tax incentives and giveaways doesn't have much risk to worry about.
There still a remedy. Don't work for them. Cut corporate welfare bullshit. I agree with you there.

But, the solution is not to take away the means of production. One step is to reduce the number of low-skilled workers who are driving down wages by making labor cheaper with so much availability. How could we possibly do that?
 
...and have any self respect?
After all, if your worth is due to that which is taken from someone else, someone who earned it....your value is nothing more than the vote you offer up to your patron, big government.

In full disclosure, the title of the thread is just as cogent if other terms are substituted for 'socialist,' terms such as communist, fascist, Progressive, Nazi or modern Liberal.

1. "Socialism is the end of all invention; it is the happy face of slavery. Mankind are greater gainers by suffering each other to live as seems good to themselves than by compelling each to live as seems good to the rest" - J.S. Mill




2. " Capitalism is the only moral system because it requires human beings to deal with one another as traders–that is, as free moral agents trading and selling goods and services on the basis of mutual consent.

Capitalism is the only just system because the sole criterion that determines the value of thing exchanged is the free, voluntary, universal judgement of the consumer. Coercion and fraud are anathema to the free-market system.

It is both moral and just because the degree to which man rises or falls in society is determined by the degree to which he uses his mind. Capitalism is the only social system that rewards merit, ability and achievement, regardless of one’s birth or station in life."

The requirements for success in a free society demand that ordinary citizens order their lives in accordance with certain virtues–namely, rationality, independence, industriousness, prudence, frugality, etc. In a free capitalist society individuals must choose for themselves how they will order their lives and the values they will pursue. Under socialism, most of life’s decisions are made for you.




3. Under socialism a ruling class of intellectuals, bureaucrats and social planners decide what people want or what is good for society and then use the coercive power of the State to regulate, tax, and redistribute the wealth of those who work for a living. In other words, socialism is a form of legalized theft.

The morality of socialism can be summed-up in two words: envy and self-sacrifice.
Envy is the desire to not only possess another’s wealth but also the desire to see another’s wealth lowered to the level of one’s own.

Socialism’s teaching on self-sacrifice was nicely summarized by two of its greatest defenders, Hermann Goering and Bennito Mussolini.

The highest principle of Nazism (National Socialism), said Goering, is: “Common good comes before private good.”

Fascism, said Mussolini, is ” a life in which the individual, through the sacrifice of his own private interests…realizes that completely spiritual existence in which his value as a man lies.



4. Sadly, America is no longer a capitalist nation. We live under what is more properly called a mixed economy–that is, an economic system that permits private property, but only at the discretion of government planners. A little bit of capitalism and a little bit of socialism.

When government redistributes wealth through taxation, when it attempts to control and regulate business production and trade, who are the winners and losers? Under this kind of economy the winners and losers are reversed: the winners are those who scream the loudest for a handout and the losers are those quiet citizens who work hard and pay their taxes." Socialism vs. Capitalism: Which is the Moral System | Ashbrook



Nazi...national socialism....based on nationalism and/or race...
Communism....international socialism.
Socialism starts with a social contract like our federal Constitution. That is why.
 
You have a point if it is a small startup company, but a well established business with millions in government tax incentives and giveaways doesn't have much risk to worry about.
There still a remedy. Don't work for them. Cut corporate welfare bullshit. I agree with you there.

But, the solution is not to take away the means of production. One step is to reduce the number of low-skilled workers who are driving down wages by making labor cheaper with so much availability. How could we possibly do that?

Certainly not by giving more free money to the rich. They really don't let it trickle down.
 
Capitalism has done the most for the most. Without question. But there will always be those who prefer being serfs who will lean the socialist way.
Those that want socialism are those too stupid to know better.. The old USSR and East Germany had walls that kept people in, and those who faced machine guns and vicious dogs would flee those Socialist Countries to go the West Germany and the US so they too could be free. That is how stupid the new socialist are...

Defector: North Koreans must be taught about their 'stupid' political system
North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un's government could collapse if people living under his rule knew “how stupid" that country's political system is, and if they had a means of escape, according to a defector from the regime.
 
Read the Williams quote carefully.
I did. I only disagree with him on the point of "before" capitalism. We have always had capitalism. Prior to capitalism being the primary driver of wealth creation, plunder and enslavement were. People used slaves in carrying out capitalism, true. But that does not diminish the point. In a civilized society, one can amass great wealth by serving society, without plunder or slavery. Is that not a true statement?
 
You have a point if it is a small startup company, but a well established business with millions in government tax incentives and giveaways doesn't have much risk to worry about.
There still a remedy. Don't work for them. Cut corporate welfare bullshit. I agree with you there.

But, the solution is not to take away the means of production. One step is to reduce the number of low-skilled workers who are driving down wages by making labor cheaper with so much availability. How could we possibly do that?

Certainly not by giving more free money to the rich. They really don't let it trickle down.
Who is giving free money to the rich? Those that are working and keeping MORE of their own money?

caf08a0277f5d8f10ad784370788270d.jpg
 
Capitalism has done the most for the most. Without question. But there will always be those who prefer being serfs who will lean the socialist way.
Those that want socialism are those too stupid to know better.. The old USSR and East Germany had walls that kept people in, and those who faced machine guns and vicious dogs would flee those Socialist Countries to go the West Germany and the US so they too could be free. That is how stupid the new socialist are...

Defector: North Koreans must be taught about their 'stupid' political system
North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un's government could collapse if people living under his rule knew “how stupid" that country's political system is, and if they had a means of escape, according to a defector from the regime.

It is indeed strange that the socialist paradises had to build walls to keep people in while capitalist societies have to build walls to keep immigrants from the socialist countries out.
 
Capitalism has done the most for the most. Without question. But there will always be those who prefer being serfs who will lean the socialist way.
Those that want socialism are those too stupid to know better.. The old USSR and East Germany had walls that kept people in, and those who faced machine guns and vicious dogs would flee those Socialist Countries to go the West Germany and the US so they too could be free. That is how stupid the new socialist are...

Defector: North Koreans must be taught about their 'stupid' political system
North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un's government could collapse if people living under his rule knew “how stupid" that country's political system is, and if they had a means of escape, according to a defector from the regime.
Only the right wing is that ignorant. We have a mixed-market economy not true capitalism. Government is socialism and the mixer in our economy.
 

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