How can anyone on the left claim Trump has been anything but successful?

[rightwinger]

I can see a $15 minimum wage for heads of households. The problem with the $15 min is that jobs are lost, so kids can't find work.

Bullshit. There's no reason why McDonald's can't pay their employees $`15.00 an hour.

Shit, I went to a McDonalds (which I usually avoid because their food sucks) and bought a vanilla shake to settle my stomach. $4.20 in Elk Grove Village, IL.

Please, please, please don't tell me that they can't afford to pay their employees a fair wage.

McDonalds has no problem raising their prices due to rising beef prices, advertising, taxes, insurance or rent increases
Somehow, paying their employees more will bankrupt them

The minimum wage has not increased in ten years......how much has the price of a burger increased in ten years?

 

[healthmyths]

Pure horseshit from asshole liars.

Fiscal Year 2018 started in SEPTEMBER 2017, while taxcuts only kicked in by February. Additionally there was 55B increase in April, but again those were 2017 settlements at 2017 tax rates.

Here is our revenues on tax-cuts:

Oct 18 +$14B
Nov 18 +$8B
Dec 18 +$7B
Jan 18 +$17B
<<<<<TAX-CUTS PHASED IN
Feb 18 -$16B
March 18 -$6B
April 18 +55B (2017 tax settlements)
May 18 -$23B
June 18 -$32B
July 18 -$7B
August 18 -$7B

https://www.fiscal.t...tmt/mts0818.pdf - Page 2

So instead of 11 billion average monthly revenue growth there is 15 billion shortfall.

Total effect is ~26B monthly, $156B YTD, revenue reduction trend so far since tax-cuts went into effect.

What are your stats being thrown against ? That's the billion dollar question no one can pin down at the moment of having to right the ship.

Many, many factors involved, and everything is fluid in our current rebuilding of America in which has gotten on the way now. Probably lose here, but pick up over there etc. Gotta let it play out, and hopefully it will all balance out somehow.

Resistance isn't the answer... It's time to get on board and grab a paddle if this boat is gonna make the trip. Punching holes in the bottom of the boat isn't the answer, because it drowns everyone in the process.

If something is positive, then support it. If negative then contest it, but the resistance has shown itself to be punching holes at every chance it gets.

I was having lunch today with some friends discussing how much we disliked Trump's personal demeanor, comments, etc. but the one point we also had in total agreement was
Trump's been successful in doing what no other president has TRIED much less DONE!
Shake up the establishment. The MSM. The political elites.
He has done things that many people continue to misunderstand.
Remember he was never a politician. He has been a person who wants to set up goals and meet them.
In his first two years he has done that.
Remember that Trump would NEVER ever make statements like these or initiate actions like the following.
He loves America. Loves Americans. Loves "Legal immigrants" (after all he's married to one!). Loves law enforcement.
He would never call the police stupid. Never denigrate the USA. Never apologize.
AND Trump would never make these statements!
View attachment 222470

Does it really matter what a TOTALY AMORAL BUFFOON never says?

The guy denegrades you and the rest of America when he, as a President of the United States shamelessly peddles blatant lies and petty bullshit on the daily. This two-bit huckster will go down as an emberassing shit-stain on American history, while chumps like you will look back and wonder why you couldn't smell the stink right under your nose.

You know what really is embarrassing is people like you that totally ignore the help the spell checker gives you!
View attachment 222537 '
You truly "denigrate" YOURSELF when you type words that you don't know how to spell. I wasn't sure so I using the marvel of the internet found the correct spelling.
View attachment 222539

But this is truly endemic of people like you that don't really take the time to investigate the supposed "lies".

As far as KNOWN LIES that will put a stain on the presidency, please discount or disprove these lies:
And if you really care to learn of Obama's first major public lie... Read the following excerpt from Obama's autobiography where he TELLS he LIES specifically
lying about being an angry black man!
View attachment 222540

View attachment 222541

I hate the spell checker
It keeps substituting words I didn’t mean

Live with it. It at least shows that you aren't as stupid as you are! And how can you hate something that is trying to keep people from knowing your laziness?

 

[healthmyths]

I can see a $15 minimum wage for heads of households. The problem with the $15 min is that jobs are lost, so kids can't find work.

Bullshit. There's no reason why McDonald's can't pay their employees $`15.00 an hour.

Shit, I went to a McDonalds (which I usually avoid because their food sucks) and bought a vanilla shake to settle my stomach. $4.20 in Elk Grove Village, IL.

Please, please, please don't tell me that they can't afford to pay their employees a fair wage.

McDonalds has no problem raising their prices due to rising beef prices, advertising, taxes, insurance or rent increases
Somehow, paying their employees more will bankrupt them

The minimum wage has not increased in ten years......how much has the price of a burger increased in ten years?

And again... how many times do I have to repeat this? I guess attention deficit goes with being a poor speller.

I AM all in FAVOR of a $15.00/hour wage ... DETERMINED by the STATE. NOT the one size fits all Federal minimum wage!
Why is it you want the FEDERAL government to tell business people in Mississippi that THEY have to pay $15.00/ hour when their standard of living is less than NYC?
I think $15.00 hour is TOO low in NYC where the standard of living is 40% higher than the standard! But let the people who live in that standard of living determine... NOT a issue
determined by people in Washington D.C.!

Why is it you want the FEDERAL government to determine it?

 

[Geaux4it]

I agree with the OP. However, with the Democrats stating they are a shoe in next month, then why they, and the liberal left so mad?

-Geaux

 

[healthmyths]

The only problem with raising taxes on the wealthy is that they move overseas to "tax havens" and/or put money in Swiss bank accounts or some other tax avoidance scheme. I'm not sure how to avoid the "only little people pay taxes" rationale' of the wealthy.

The left wants to pioneer, raising the minimum wage to raise tax revenue, so the poor can help with taxes.

I can see a $15 minimum wage for heads of households. The problem with the $15 min is that jobs are lost, so kids can't find work.

Unemployment is natural under capitalism. It is why the left has a solution; unemployment compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment. A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation for being unemployed by capitalism's natural rate of unemployed at fourteen dollars an hour equivalent will solve that simple form of poverty; and, higher paid labor pays more in taxes and create more in demand.

AGAIN... how many people would GAIN from $15. wage????? Less than 3 million!
Q) How many people do you think work at minimum wage?
A) In 2014, about 1.3 million U.S. workers age 16 and over earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. Another 1.7 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together these workers make up 4 percent of all hourly paid workers. What are the characteristics of minimum wage workers? - UC Davis Center for Poverty Research
So let's raise ALL these 3 million people to $15.00/hour.
DO you think that solution will help the GDP????? Well guess what dummies!
The actual contribution would be 3 million times $7.75 X 2,080 hours and guess what a GREAT big difference to the GDP that makes??? 2/10ths of 1 percent!!!
$48.3 billion divided by $18.57 trillion equals 0.002%...WOW... what a gigantic difference!!!

Raising the minimum wage will also bump those on the low skill pay scale
Quoting how many people currently are making $7.25 ignores those who make less than $15 an hour. It also ignores those who make $15 to $20 an hour who will see positive pressure to raise wages

It will make a difference to those struggling at the lower pay scales

No actually what it will do is businesses will figure out how to do the same job with fewer people or with robots!

AGAIN raising the minimum wage for Mississippi is stupid and raising it to $15 in NYC is too low!

I'm all in favor of raising the minimum WAGE but on a STATE by STATE basis.
This stupidity of "one size fits all" has to stop. We have 50 states. The USA is a heterogeneous (for you that means varied) population so why are you so intent on forcing
on people in Mississippi a wage that is ludicrously high and a wage in NYC that will be ludicrously low?

 

[Geaux4it]

How are you not doing well in this booming economy? I mean if you flip burgers for a living I guess shit is bad for you. But unless you are 17 years old that is nobody's fault but your own.

I was doing just as well when Obama was in office, but how well I'm doing isn't the point. That's on me, not anything Trump is doing.

Trump inherited a good economy and immediately started applying all the bad Republican ideas that get us into recessions. - Tariffs, tax cuts for rich people, deficit spending, deregulation.

Yeah, nobody was optimistic when Trump took office. Yet

-Geaux

I'll grant you the spending but I hold that on the GOP 100% as they control the purse strings.

um, no, sorry.

The real problem is, there really isn't anything to cut.

Once you take out interest on the debt, defense spending, Medicare and Social Security, there just isn't that much to cut in Federal Spending. Not enough to offset the Billions in tax breaks to the rich that Trump pushed through.

Trump is working on the same old discredited crap that if you cut taxes on rich people, that generates economic activity that will increase revenues. It's the same supply side bullshit the GOP has been pushing for 40 years and they don't really even believe anymore.

NOw they just push tax cuts for the rich because the rich deserve it.

Then there are all the other bad ideas, like deregulation. It's like we didn't learn a ******* thing from 2008.

Why does the government need more revenue?

-Geaux

 

[Geaux4it]

By almost any measurable metric the United States is flourishing. And in some areas it isn't just flourishing it is stampeding.
I will grant you that the debt/spending is a huge problem but at least the country as a whole is reaping rewards from it this time. Usually they spend boatloads and we get buptkis out of it (see Obama)
The threat of tariffs and ending trade agreements has even had some positive outcomes so far (Mexico & Canada)

Now I expect you to howl about families split up at the border (while pretending this was new to Trump) and the debt of course but policy wise you got no winning message.

Well, in foreign policy he's not been successful at anything.

With the North Korean situation it's hard to tell what's going on, whether this is a similar ply to Kim's father in 2007.

With Syria Trump has just lied to make it look like he's done something, when he did almost nothing.

With Russia he hasn't made closer ties like he said he would.

With the EU he's made things worse.

With China he's made things worse.

So, he's got two potentials, North Korea and China, and a few failures, like the EU.

With the economy he hasn't done anything. The economy is slowing down, probably because it needs to be slowing down, but he's the sort of muppet who wants the economy to be going at the speed of light. He's taken credit where credit clearly wasn't due, he's been hypocritical when it comes to statistics when viewed with what he said before the election.

He's managed to get a tax cut for himself. I'll admit he's been successful there.

He got rid of Obamacare and replaced it with something worse. Failure for most people, success for the rich.

So.... really, what's to applaud?

Wait, tariffs...... yeah, farmers going downhill and needing HANDOUTS (which apparently the Republicans hate), other industries potentially going downhill and all with the hope that China buckles (with it's 6% growth a low, year on year, it can afford to lose some growth, the US can't.)

Trump puts America first, so why should we be concerned with the rest of the world?

-Geaux

 

[Geaux4it]

He fell in love with Kim Jong Un….

According to Woodward’s book, he and Melania keep separate bedrooms.

Hmmm...

Oh nooooooooze

-Geaux

 

[tycho1572]

Let’s have a quick look at a few of his accomplishments......

• Almost 4 million jobs created since election.
• More Americans are now employed than ever recorded before in our history.
• We have created more than 400,000 manufacturing jobs since his election.
• Manufacturing jobs growing at the fastest rate in more than THREE DECADES.
• Economic growth last quarter hit 4.2 percent.
• New unemployment claims recently hit a 49-year low.
• Median household income has hit highest level ever recorded.
• African-American unemployment has recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.
• Hispanic-American unemployment is at the lowest rate ever recorded.
• Asian-American unemployment recently achieved the lowest rate ever recorded.

 

[tycho1572]

What the heck.... I’ll throw a few more out there.......

• Women’s unemployment recently reached the lowest rate in 65 years.
• Youth unemployment has recently hit the lowest rate in nearly half a century.
• Lowest unemployment rate ever recorded for Americans without a high school diploma.
• Under his Administration, veterans’ unemployment recently reached its lowest rate in nearly 20 years.
• Almost 3.9 million Americans have been lifted off food stamps since the election.
• The Pledge to America’s Workers has resulted in employers committing to train more than 4 million Americans. We are committed to VOCATIONAL education.
• 95 percent of U.S. manufacturers are optimistic about the future—the highest ever.
• Retail sales surged last month, up another 6 percent over last year.
• Signed the biggest package of tax cuts and reforms in history. After tax cuts, over $300 billion poured back in to the U.S. in the first quarter alone.
• As a result of our tax bill, small businesses will have the lowest top marginal tax rate in more than 80 years.
• Helped win U.S. bid for the 2028 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles.
• Helped win U.S.-Mexico-Canada’s united bid for 2026 World Cup.
• Opened ANWR and approved Keystone XL and Dakota Access Pipelines.
• Record number of regulations eliminated.
• Enacted regulatory relief for community banks and credit unions.
• Obamacare individual mandate penalty GONE.
• My Administration is providing more affordable healthcare options for Americans through association health plans and short-term duration plans.
• Last month, the FDA approved more affordable generic drugs than ever before in history. And thanks to our efforts, many drug companies are freezing or reversing planned price increases.
• We reformed the Medicare program to stop hospitals from overcharging low-income seniors on their drugs—saving seniors hundreds of millions of dollars this year alone.
• Signed Right-To-Try legislation.
• Secured $6 billion in NEW funding to fight the opioid epidemic.
• We have reduced high-dose opioid prescriptions by 16 percent during my first year in office.
• Signed VA Choice Act and VA Accountability Act, expanded VA telehealth services, walk-in-clinics, and same-day urgent primary and mental health care.
• Increased our coal exports by 60 percent; U.S. oil production recently reached all-time high.
• United States is a net natural gas exporter for the first time since 1957.
• Withdrew the United States from the job-killing Paris Climate Accord.
• Cancelled the illegal, anti-coal, so-called Clean Power Plan.
• Secured record $700 billion in military funding; $716 billion next year.
• NATO allies are spending $69 billion more on defense since 2016.
• Process has begun to make the Space Force the 6th branch of the Armed Forces.
• Confirmed more circuit court judges than any other new administration.
• Confirmed Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch and Judge Brett Kavanaugh.
• Withdrew from the horrible, one-sided Iran Deal.
• Moved U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem.
• Protecting Americans from terrorists with the Travel Ban, upheld by Supreme Court.
• Issued Executive Order to keep open Guantanamo Bay.
• Concluded a historic U.S.-Mexico Trade Deal to replace NAFTA. And negotiations with Canada are underway as we speak.
• Reached a breakthrough agreement with the E.U. to increase U.S. exports.
• Imposed tariffs on foreign steel and aluminum to protect our national security.
• Imposed tariffs on China in response to China’s forced technology transfer, intellectual property theft, and their chronically abusive trade practices.
• Net exports are on track to increase by $59 billion this year.
• Improved vetting and screening for refugees, and switched focus to overseas resettlement.

 

[tycho1572]

The list of his accomplishments is amazing. It has me wondering if he ever sleeps.

I’m not surprised to hear about people around him having trouble with keeping up. lol

 

[danielpalos]

How does making these 3 million people that add less than 2/10ths of 1% to the GDP will cause these 3 million people to become a market power?
Besides "monopsony" doesn't apply to the "worker" component. A monopsony occurs when a single firm has market power through its factors of production.
So how does raising these 3 million (of which half are between 16 and 25 years) will have ANY positive effect?

In 2014, about 1.3 million U.S. workers age 16 and over earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. Another 1.7 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together these workers make up 4 percent of all hourly paid workers.

What are the characteristics of minimum wage workers? - UC Davis Center for Poverty Research

These entry level jobs are the training ground for people with little skill sets or education.
The ONLY value these jobs have is NOT to make money but as entry jobs training people in the simple fundamentals that employers want which are:
1) be on time 2) be on the job 3) be able to follow orders.

Those are the three fundamental characteristics that entry jobs provide.

With your ignoring the realities of the market place where raising the minimum wage will replace with kiosks and robots at a much cheaper cost.

You are NOT improving these entry level workers chances to learn when you make it more financially attractive to have machines replace these entry level workers.

what about the reduced cost of social services and Labor being more able to afford higher rents, take another course, etc.

and, monopsony applies simply due to the legal jurisdiction of State or federal law.

Monopsony
What is a 'Monopsony'?
A monopsony, sometimes referred to as a buyer's monopoly, is a market condition similar to a monopoly. However, in a monopsony, a large buyer, not a seller, controls a large proportion of the market and drives prices down. A monopsony occurs when a single firm has market power through its factors of production. The firm is the sole purchaser for multiple sellers and drives down the price of the seller's products or services according to the amount of quantity that it demands

monopsony has nothing to do with "legal jurisdiction of State or federal law"

"what about the reduced cost of social services"
Again remember what is the total increase in NET income after payroll taxes... on $48.3 billion after payroll taxes $42 billion.
Well for sure the payroll taxes of 12.4% or about $ 6 billion... yea that well create demand!

Where are your facts by the way?

As to reduced cost of social services:
The welfare budget is comprised of 13 unique programs as described on the Safety Net Programs Page.
These programs spent $364 billion and $354 billion in 2016 and 2017, respectively
Welfare Budget

So let's assume all 3 million that will get the additional $7.75 or $42 Billion (after payroll taxes) ...
That will reduce IF they are not eligible any longer the $364 billion by 13%.... Nice contribution but again will cause more problems because
as shown already this money won't be spent on humans! Robots...are far cheaper than $15.00.


Flippy' The Fast Food Robot (Sort Of) Mans The Grill At Caliburger
It certainly helps that Flippy, a burger-flipping robot developed by Miso Robotics, shows no concern about the low wages, meager benefits or long hours that plague the industry. The robot is reportedly capable of grilling 150 burgers per hour runs about $60,000 per unit
'Flippy' The Fast Food Robot (Sort Of) Mans The Grill At Caliburger

Works 7 days a week.. 23 hours...(1 hour off for maintenance.
Last for 5 years. So working 7 days 2 23 hours five years equals 294,026 hours divided into cost: $60,000 plus annual maintenance costs of say $600/year: $0.21 (21¢/hour).
Seems like a very good compared to actually $15.93/hour (you forgot the employer pays 6.2% payroll taxes also)...

There is NOTHING NOTHING you can say to refute the above FACTS.
$15.00 minimum wage is fine at a STATE level based on the state's standard of living. Again it is wrong to have a one size fits all.
All this does is encourages employers who are paying the minimum wage to look for alternatives. They have to.

Legal jurisdiction emulates a monopsony by legal fiat.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah, nobody was optimistic when Trump took office. Yet

Well, it's more like when you invite your drunk Uncle to Thanksgiving... you know he's going to do something to make everyone miserable, you just have to sit around and wait for it.

Republicans know Trump is a buffoon as much as Democrats do... they just hope to get tax cuts for rich people and deregulation and knuckledraggers on the bench before everyone else figures it out.

Why does the government need more revenue?

Because we have obligations...

And because I have yet to see you guys post a list of things that we can cut that will offset the 900 Billion dollar deficit that Trump created.

 

[danielpalos]

How does making these 3 million people that add less than 2/10ths of 1% to the GDP will cause these 3 million people to become a market power?
Besides "monopsony" doesn't apply to the "worker" component. A monopsony occurs when a single firm has market power through its factors of production.
So how does raising these 3 million (of which half are between 16 and 25 years) will have ANY positive effect?

In 2014, about 1.3 million U.S. workers age 16 and over earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. Another 1.7 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together these workers make up 4 percent of all hourly paid workers.

What are the characteristics of minimum wage workers? - UC Davis Center for Poverty Research

These entry level jobs are the training ground for people with little skill sets or education.
The ONLY value these jobs have is NOT to make money but as entry jobs training people in the simple fundamentals that employers want which are:
1) be on time 2) be on the job 3) be able to follow orders.

Those are the three fundamental characteristics that entry jobs provide.

With your ignoring the realities of the market place where raising the minimum wage will replace with kiosks and robots at a much cheaper cost.

You are NOT improving these entry level workers chances to learn when you make it more financially attractive to have machines replace these entry level workers.

what about the reduced cost of social services and Labor being more able to afford higher rents, take another course, etc.

and, monopsony applies simply due to the legal jurisdiction of State or federal law.

Monopsony
What is a 'Monopsony'?
A monopsony, sometimes referred to as a buyer's monopoly, is a market condition similar to a monopoly. However, in a monopsony, a large buyer, not a seller, controls a large proportion of the market and drives prices down. A monopsony occurs when a single firm has market power through its factors of production. The firm is the sole purchaser for multiple sellers and drives down the price of the seller's products or services according to the amount of quantity that it demands

monopsony has nothing to do with "legal jurisdiction of State or federal law"

"what about the reduced cost of social services"
Again remember what is the total increase in NET income after payroll taxes... on $48.3 billion after payroll taxes $42 billion.
Well for sure the payroll taxes of 12.4% or about $ 6 billion... yea that well create demand!

Where are your facts by the way?

As to reduced cost of social services:
The welfare budget is comprised of 13 unique programs as described on the Safety Net Programs Page.
These programs spent $364 billion and $354 billion in 2016 and 2017, respectively
Welfare Budget

So let's assume all 3 million that will get the additional $7.75 or $42 Billion (after payroll taxes) ...
That will reduce IF they are not eligible any longer the $364 billion by 13%.... Nice contribution but again will cause more problems because
as shown already this money won't be spent on humans! Robots...are far cheaper than $15.00.


Flippy' The Fast Food Robot (Sort Of) Mans The Grill At Caliburger
It certainly helps that Flippy, a burger-flipping robot developed by Miso Robotics, shows no concern about the low wages, meager benefits or long hours that plague the industry. The robot is reportedly capable of grilling 150 burgers per hour runs about $60,000 per unit
'Flippy' The Fast Food Robot (Sort Of) Mans The Grill At Caliburger

Works 7 days a week.. 23 hours...(1 hour off for maintenance.
Last for 5 years. So working 7 days 2 23 hours five years equals 294,026 hours divided into cost: $60,000 plus annual maintenance costs of say $600/year: $0.21 (21¢/hour).
Seems like a very good compared to actually $15.93/hour (you forgot the employer pays 6.2% payroll taxes also)...

There is NOTHING NOTHING you can say to refute the above FACTS.
$15.00 minimum wage is fine at a STATE level based on the state's standard of living. Again it is wrong to have a one size fits all.
All this does is encourages employers who are paying the minimum wage to look for alternatives. They have to.

Hmmm...you know he's never going to learn anything.

we already covered this; Seattle and San Francisco are proof of the concept involving a form of monopsony.

 

[danielpalos]

The left wants to pioneer, raising the minimum wage to raise tax revenue, so the poor can help with taxes.

I can see a $15 minimum wage for heads of households. The problem with the $15 min is that jobs are lost, so kids can't find work.

Unemployment is natural under capitalism. It is why the left has a solution; unemployment compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment. A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation for being unemployed by capitalism's natural rate of unemployed at fourteen dollars an hour equivalent will solve that simple form of poverty; and, higher paid labor pays more in taxes and create more in demand.

AGAIN... how many people would GAIN from $15. wage????? Less than 3 million!
Q) How many people do you think work at minimum wage?
A) In 2014, about 1.3 million U.S. workers age 16 and over earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. Another 1.7 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together these workers make up 4 percent of all hourly paid workers. What are the characteristics of minimum wage workers? - UC Davis Center for Poverty Research
So let's raise ALL these 3 million people to $15.00/hour.
DO you think that solution will help the GDP????? Well guess what dummies!
The actual contribution would be 3 million times $7.75 X 2,080 hours and guess what a GREAT big difference to the GDP that makes??? 2/10ths of 1 percent!!!
$48.3 billion divided by $18.57 trillion equals 0.002%...WOW... what a gigantic difference!!!

Raising the minimum wage will also bump those on the low skill pay scale
Quoting how many people currently are making $7.25 ignores those who make less than $15 an hour. It also ignores those who make $15 to $20 an hour who will see positive pressure to raise wages

It will make a difference to those struggling at the lower pay scales

No actually what it will do is businesses will figure out how to do the same job with fewer people or with robots!

AGAIN raising the minimum wage for Mississippi is stupid and raising it to $15 in NYC is too low!

I'm all in favor of raising the minimum WAGE but on a STATE by STATE basis.
This stupidity of "one size fits all" has to stop. We have 50 states. The USA is a heterogeneous (for you that means varied) population so why are you so intent on forcing
on people in Mississippi a wage that is ludicrously high and a wage in NYC that will be ludicrously low?

does that hold true for ceo's and the one percent in those States? they should be, "poorer in those States".

 

[Thinker101]

How does making these 3 million people that add less than 2/10ths of 1% to the GDP will cause these 3 million people to become a market power?
Besides "monopsony" doesn't apply to the "worker" component. A monopsony occurs when a single firm has market power through its factors of production.
So how does raising these 3 million (of which half are between 16 and 25 years) will have ANY positive effect?

In 2014, about 1.3 million U.S. workers age 16 and over earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. Another 1.7 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together these workers make up 4 percent of all hourly paid workers.

What are the characteristics of minimum wage workers? - UC Davis Center for Poverty Research

These entry level jobs are the training ground for people with little skill sets or education.
The ONLY value these jobs have is NOT to make money but as entry jobs training people in the simple fundamentals that employers want which are:
1) be on time 2) be on the job 3) be able to follow orders.

Those are the three fundamental characteristics that entry jobs provide.

With your ignoring the realities of the market place where raising the minimum wage will replace with kiosks and robots at a much cheaper cost.

You are NOT improving these entry level workers chances to learn when you make it more financially attractive to have machines replace these entry level workers.

what about the reduced cost of social services and Labor being more able to afford higher rents, take another course, etc.

and, monopsony applies simply due to the legal jurisdiction of State or federal law.

Monopsony
What is a 'Monopsony'?
A monopsony, sometimes referred to as a buyer's monopoly, is a market condition similar to a monopoly. However, in a monopsony, a large buyer, not a seller, controls a large proportion of the market and drives prices down. A monopsony occurs when a single firm has market power through its factors of production. The firm is the sole purchaser for multiple sellers and drives down the price of the seller's products or services according to the amount of quantity that it demands

monopsony has nothing to do with "legal jurisdiction of State or federal law"

"what about the reduced cost of social services"
Again remember what is the total increase in NET income after payroll taxes... on $48.3 billion after payroll taxes $42 billion.
Well for sure the payroll taxes of 12.4% or about $ 6 billion... yea that well create demand!

Where are your facts by the way?

As to reduced cost of social services:
The welfare budget is comprised of 13 unique programs as described on the Safety Net Programs Page.
These programs spent $364 billion and $354 billion in 2016 and 2017, respectively
Welfare Budget

So let's assume all 3 million that will get the additional $7.75 or $42 Billion (after payroll taxes) ...
That will reduce IF they are not eligible any longer the $364 billion by 13%.... Nice contribution but again will cause more problems because
as shown already this money won't be spent on humans! Robots...are far cheaper than $15.00.


Flippy' The Fast Food Robot (Sort Of) Mans The Grill At Caliburger
It certainly helps that Flippy, a burger-flipping robot developed by Miso Robotics, shows no concern about the low wages, meager benefits or long hours that plague the industry. The robot is reportedly capable of grilling 150 burgers per hour runs about $60,000 per unit
'Flippy' The Fast Food Robot (Sort Of) Mans The Grill At Caliburger

Works 7 days a week.. 23 hours...(1 hour off for maintenance.
Last for 5 years. So working 7 days 2 23 hours five years equals 294,026 hours divided into cost: $60,000 plus annual maintenance costs of say $600/year: $0.21 (21¢/hour).
Seems like a very good compared to actually $15.93/hour (you forgot the employer pays 6.2% payroll taxes also)...

There is NOTHING NOTHING you can say to refute the above FACTS.
$15.00 minimum wage is fine at a STATE level based on the state's standard of living. Again it is wrong to have a one size fits all.
All this does is encourages employers who are paying the minimum wage to look for alternatives. They have to.

Hmmm...you know he's never going to learn anything.

we already covered this; Seattle and San Francisco are proof of the concept involving a form of monopsony.

Like a broken record.

 

[healthmyths]

I can see a $15 minimum wage for heads of households. The problem with the $15 min is that jobs are lost, so kids can't find work.

Unemployment is natural under capitalism. It is why the left has a solution; unemployment compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment. A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation for being unemployed by capitalism's natural rate of unemployed at fourteen dollars an hour equivalent will solve that simple form of poverty; and, higher paid labor pays more in taxes and create more in demand.

AGAIN... how many people would GAIN from $15. wage????? Less than 3 million!
Q) How many people do you think work at minimum wage?
A) In 2014, about 1.3 million U.S. workers age 16 and over earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. Another 1.7 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together these workers make up 4 percent of all hourly paid workers. What are the characteristics of minimum wage workers? - UC Davis Center for Poverty Research
So let's raise ALL these 3 million people to $15.00/hour.
DO you think that solution will help the GDP????? Well guess what dummies!
The actual contribution would be 3 million times $7.75 X 2,080 hours and guess what a GREAT big difference to the GDP that makes??? 2/10ths of 1 percent!!!
$48.3 billion divided by $18.57 trillion equals 0.002%...WOW... what a gigantic difference!!!

Raising the minimum wage will also bump those on the low skill pay scale
Quoting how many people currently are making $7.25 ignores those who make less than $15 an hour. It also ignores those who make $15 to $20 an hour who will see positive pressure to raise wages

It will make a difference to those struggling at the lower pay scales

No actually what it will do is businesses will figure out how to do the same job with fewer people or with robots!

AGAIN raising the minimum wage for Mississippi is stupid and raising it to $15 in NYC is too low!

I'm all in favor of raising the minimum WAGE but on a STATE by STATE basis.
This stupidity of "one size fits all" has to stop. We have 50 states. The USA is a heterogeneous (for you that means varied) population so why are you so intent on forcing
on people in Mississippi a wage that is ludicrously high and a wage in NYC that will be ludicrously low?

does that hold true for ceo's and the one percent in those States? they should be, "poorer in those States".

But they are NOT.... Their standard of living is lower because they :

a)have a lower state income tax for example in MS... 5% Vs. NY 8.82% Plus NYC has a 3% personal income tax (so right away $15/hr has 11% income tax deducted)
What Americans pay in state income taxes, ranked from highest to lowest

b)Cost of living index is lower in MS...84.0 % Vs HW 186% Cost of Living First Quarter 2018

So as for your socialistic tendencies to blame capitalists.."hold true for ceo's and the one percent in those States? Of course it holds true!
Why are you against CEOs making say 10 to 100 times the worker?
Do you have the same angst against these guys?

Why are you against CEOs that are the tops in their fields but you say NOTHING about these people?
I mean each are top performers and in all those evil corporations that you hate, some ONE person is basically responsible with penalty of going to JAIL if
any DECISIONS are against Federal/state/local laws. PLUS these top performer CEOs have to answer to people just as the below "performers" have to answer to and
YET I don't see any outcry against THESE below that totally depend on those poor minimum wage workers to buy the tickets,merechandise, etc. that pay their salaries!
Why are you NOT mentioning them? After all they CAN tell their sponsors ..Hey I'm not going to endorse your goods and take your millions if you don't raise the minimum wage!"
Why aren't you going after them also?

 

[healthmyths]

How does making these 3 million people that add less than 2/10ths of 1% to the GDP will cause these 3 million people to become a market power?
Besides "monopsony" doesn't apply to the "worker" component. A monopsony occurs when a single firm has market power through its factors of production.
So how does raising these 3 million (of which half are between 16 and 25 years) will have ANY positive effect?

In 2014, about 1.3 million U.S. workers age 16 and over earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. Another 1.7 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together these workers make up 4 percent of all hourly paid workers.

What are the characteristics of minimum wage workers? - UC Davis Center for Poverty Research

These entry level jobs are the training ground for people with little skill sets or education.
The ONLY value these jobs have is NOT to make money but as entry jobs training people in the simple fundamentals that employers want which are:
1) be on time 2) be on the job 3) be able to follow orders.

Those are the three fundamental characteristics that entry jobs provide.

With your ignoring the realities of the market place where raising the minimum wage will replace with kiosks and robots at a much cheaper cost.

You are NOT improving these entry level workers chances to learn when you make it more financially attractive to have machines replace these entry level workers.

what about the reduced cost of social services and Labor being more able to afford higher rents, take another course, etc.

and, monopsony applies simply due to the legal jurisdiction of State or federal law.

Monopsony
What is a 'Monopsony'?
A monopsony, sometimes referred to as a buyer's monopoly, is a market condition similar to a monopoly. However, in a monopsony, a large buyer, not a seller, controls a large proportion of the market and drives prices down. A monopsony occurs when a single firm has market power through its factors of production. The firm is the sole purchaser for multiple sellers and drives down the price of the seller's products or services according to the amount of quantity that it demands

monopsony has nothing to do with "legal jurisdiction of State or federal law"

"what about the reduced cost of social services"
Again remember what is the total increase in NET income after payroll taxes... on $48.3 billion after payroll taxes $42 billion.
Well for sure the payroll taxes of 12.4% or about $ 6 billion... yea that well create demand!

Where are your facts by the way?

As to reduced cost of social services:
The welfare budget is comprised of 13 unique programs as described on the Safety Net Programs Page.
These programs spent $364 billion and $354 billion in 2016 and 2017, respectively
Welfare Budget

So let's assume all 3 million that will get the additional $7.75 or $42 Billion (after payroll taxes) ...
That will reduce IF they are not eligible any longer the $364 billion by 13%.... Nice contribution but again will cause more problems because
as shown already this money won't be spent on humans! Robots...are far cheaper than $15.00.


Flippy' The Fast Food Robot (Sort Of) Mans The Grill At Caliburger
It certainly helps that Flippy, a burger-flipping robot developed by Miso Robotics, shows no concern about the low wages, meager benefits or long hours that plague the industry. The robot is reportedly capable of grilling 150 burgers per hour runs about $60,000 per unit
'Flippy' The Fast Food Robot (Sort Of) Mans The Grill At Caliburger

Works 7 days a week.. 23 hours...(1 hour off for maintenance.
Last for 5 years. So working 7 days 2 23 hours five years equals 294,026 hours divided into cost: $60,000 plus annual maintenance costs of say $600/year: $0.21 (21¢/hour).
Seems like a very good compared to actually $15.93/hour (you forgot the employer pays 6.2% payroll taxes also)...

There is NOTHING NOTHING you can say to refute the above FACTS.
$15.00 minimum wage is fine at a STATE level based on the state's standard of living. Again it is wrong to have a one size fits all.
All this does is encourages employers who are paying the minimum wage to look for alternatives. They have to.

Hmmm...you know he's never going to learn anything.

we already covered this; Seattle and San Francisco are proof of the concept involving a form of monopsony.

Like a broken record.

And I have NO problem with Seattle and San Francisco doing their own thing regarding $15.00!!!
LIKE A BROKEN record I have to keep repeating. The process of letting cities, states etc. set their OWN minimum wage is FINE with me!
How many times do I have to state this???

So PLEASE for once AGREE with me! I want $15.00/hr minimum wage... JUST not a federal "one size fits' all" approach.
What Seattle and San Francisco makes common logical sense FOR THEM!

And by the way if companies like Amazon want to nationally establish $15.00/hour that's fine by me because THEY made that decision. Not the state or Federal government!
If they want to pass that on to their ignorant customers while half of Amazon's sales are by 3rd party vendors AREN'T paying STATES' sales taxes that's their prerogative.

But again how many times must I repeat IT IS NOT a Federal issue!

Rent in Jackson MS 25% of what they are in San Francisco or 43% of Seattle!

Please look at the following comparisons: San Francisco Vs Jackson MS

Now Seattle WA VS Jackson MS

Cost of Living Comparison Between San Francisco, CA, United States And Jackson, MS, United States

 

[rightwinger]

The left wants to pioneer, raising the minimum wage to raise tax revenue, so the poor can help with taxes.

I can see a $15 minimum wage for heads of households. The problem with the $15 min is that jobs are lost, so kids can't find work.

Unemployment is natural under capitalism. It is why the left has a solution; unemployment compensation for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment. A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation for being unemployed by capitalism's natural rate of unemployed at fourteen dollars an hour equivalent will solve that simple form of poverty; and, higher paid labor pays more in taxes and create more in demand.

AGAIN... how many people would GAIN from $15. wage????? Less than 3 million!
Q) How many people do you think work at minimum wage?
A) In 2014, about 1.3 million U.S. workers age 16 and over earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. Another 1.7 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together these workers make up 4 percent of all hourly paid workers. What are the characteristics of minimum wage workers? - UC Davis Center for Poverty Research
So let's raise ALL these 3 million people to $15.00/hour.
DO you think that solution will help the GDP????? Well guess what dummies!
The actual contribution would be 3 million times $7.75 X 2,080 hours and guess what a GREAT big difference to the GDP that makes??? 2/10ths of 1 percent!!!
$48.3 billion divided by $18.57 trillion equals 0.002%...WOW... what a gigantic difference!!!

Raising the minimum wage will also bump those on the low skill pay scale
Quoting how many people currently are making $7.25 ignores those who make less than $15 an hour. It also ignores those who make $15 to $20 an hour who will see positive pressure to raise wages

It will make a difference to those struggling at the lower pay scales

No actually what it will do is businesses will figure out how to do the same job with fewer people or with robots!

AGAIN raising the minimum wage for Mississippi is stupid and raising it to $15 in NYC is too low!

I'm all in favor of raising the minimum WAGE but on a STATE by STATE basis.
This stupidity of "one size fits all" has to stop. We have 50 states. The USA is a heterogeneous (for you that means varied) population so why are you so intent on forcing
on people in Mississippi a wage that is ludicrously high and a wage in NYC that will be ludicrously low?

If business could do the same job with fewer people or robots, they already would do it

We have had self serve gas since minimum wage was $2.80

 

[danielpalos]

How does making these 3 million people that add less than 2/10ths of 1% to the GDP will cause these 3 million people to become a market power?
Besides "monopsony" doesn't apply to the "worker" component. A monopsony occurs when a single firm has market power through its factors of production.
So how does raising these 3 million (of which half are between 16 and 25 years) will have ANY positive effect?

In 2014, about 1.3 million U.S. workers age 16 and over earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. Another 1.7 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together these workers make up 4 percent of all hourly paid workers.

What are the characteristics of minimum wage workers? - UC Davis Center for Poverty Research

These entry level jobs are the training ground for people with little skill sets or education.
The ONLY value these jobs have is NOT to make money but as entry jobs training people in the simple fundamentals that employers want which are:
1) be on time 2) be on the job 3) be able to follow orders.

Those are the three fundamental characteristics that entry jobs provide.

With your ignoring the realities of the market place where raising the minimum wage will replace with kiosks and robots at a much cheaper cost.

You are NOT improving these entry level workers chances to learn when you make it more financially attractive to have machines replace these entry level workers.

what about the reduced cost of social services and Labor being more able to afford higher rents, take another course, etc.

and, monopsony applies simply due to the legal jurisdiction of State or federal law.

Monopsony
What is a 'Monopsony'?
A monopsony, sometimes referred to as a buyer's monopoly, is a market condition similar to a monopoly. However, in a monopsony, a large buyer, not a seller, controls a large proportion of the market and drives prices down. A monopsony occurs when a single firm has market power through its factors of production. The firm is the sole purchaser for multiple sellers and drives down the price of the seller's products or services according to the amount of quantity that it demands

monopsony has nothing to do with "legal jurisdiction of State or federal law"

"what about the reduced cost of social services"
Again remember what is the total increase in NET income after payroll taxes... on $48.3 billion after payroll taxes $42 billion.
Well for sure the payroll taxes of 12.4% or about $ 6 billion... yea that well create demand!

Where are your facts by the way?

As to reduced cost of social services:
The welfare budget is comprised of 13 unique programs as described on the Safety Net Programs Page.
These programs spent $364 billion and $354 billion in 2016 and 2017, respectively
Welfare Budget

So let's assume all 3 million that will get the additional $7.75 or $42 Billion (after payroll taxes) ...
That will reduce IF they are not eligible any longer the $364 billion by 13%.... Nice contribution but again will cause more problems because
as shown already this money won't be spent on humans! Robots...are far cheaper than $15.00.


Flippy' The Fast Food Robot (Sort Of) Mans The Grill At Caliburger
It certainly helps that Flippy, a burger-flipping robot developed by Miso Robotics, shows no concern about the low wages, meager benefits or long hours that plague the industry. The robot is reportedly capable of grilling 150 burgers per hour runs about $60,000 per unit
'Flippy' The Fast Food Robot (Sort Of) Mans The Grill At Caliburger

Works 7 days a week.. 23 hours...(1 hour off for maintenance.
Last for 5 years. So working 7 days 2 23 hours five years equals 294,026 hours divided into cost: $60,000 plus annual maintenance costs of say $600/year: $0.21 (21¢/hour).
Seems like a very good compared to actually $15.93/hour (you forgot the employer pays 6.2% payroll taxes also)...

There is NOTHING NOTHING you can say to refute the above FACTS.
$15.00 minimum wage is fine at a STATE level based on the state's standard of living. Again it is wrong to have a one size fits all.
All this does is encourages employers who are paying the minimum wage to look for alternatives. They have to.

Hmmm...you know he's never going to learn anything.

we already covered this; Seattle and San Francisco are proof of the concept involving a form of monopsony.

Like a broken record.

only the right wing, never gets it.