How about Hiring Those Vets?

[Adam's Apple]

Another example of hypocrisy?

Support the Troops? Then Hire a Veteran
By Debra J. Saunders, San Francisco Chronicle
April 6, 2008

A recent survey for the Department of Veterans Affairs found that 18 percent of vets just back from tours of duty are out of work - and a quarter of those with jobs earn less than $21,840 per year. In the first two years after leaving military service, the official unemployment rate for veterans was 9.5 percent - more than double the 4.3 percent rate for a group of demographically similar nonvets.

for full article:
www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2008/04/06/INLTVQUVR.DTL

 

[jillian]

Yes... I think the fake patriots with the Support Our Troops magnets on their cars are absolutely being hypocritical.

As for the rest...and what I'd have otherwise gotten out of the article had you not used the term hypocrits (instead of just acknowledging the problem), then I'd say yes... it's important that we take care of the people who are being forced to fight Bush's war. Absolutely.

 

[Gunny]

Yes... I think the fake patriots with the Support Our Troops magnets on their cars are absolutely being hypocritical.

As for the rest...and what I'd have otherwise gotten out of the article had you not used the term hypocrits (instead of just acknowledging the problem), then I'd say yes... it's important that we take care of the people who are being forced to fight Bush's war. Absolutely.

You're trying to oversimplify the problem. What skills do those vets possess and what markets are they trying to sell them?

I personally have had NO problem finding a job, and the fact I am a veteran has been to my plus since entering the civilian sector. Employers like vets. If nothing else, we have a disciplined work ethic we bring along pre-instilled and we aren't the ones that start whining when someone has to dig. On time means 0655, not 7:10-7-20 THEN start finding your tools.

There's a WHOLE lot more to this argument than simply blaming the system, that btw, you expect exactly WHAT out of? A guranteed job earning an upper-middle-income salary upon discharge, or what?

Most vets who get out after one hitch are around 22 years old. You were in law school at the time making HOW much, exactly?

 

[Diuretic]

There's an opening for an HR type entrepreneur. There's a company in the UK that makes a nice little earner out of finding ex-coppers jobs in private industry, I would think with the varied range of skills that military veterans would have that someone in the US should crank up a business finding them work.

 

[jillian]

You're trying to oversimplify the problem. What skills do those vets possess and what markets are they trying to sell them?

I personally have had NO problem finding a job, and the fact I am a veteran has been to my plus since entering the civilian sector. Employers like vets. If nothing else, we have a disciplined work ethic we bring along pre-instilled and we aren't the ones that start whining when someone has to dig. On time means 0655, not 7:10-7-20 THEN start finding your tools.

There's a WHOLE lot more to this argument than simply blaming the system, that btw, you expect exactly WHAT out of? A guranteed job earning an upper-middle-income salary upon discharge, or what?

Most vets who get out after one hitch are around 22 years old. You were in law school at the time making HOW much, exactly?

Actually, I graduated from law school when I was still 22.

My first job? Money was sucky... very sucky. But I worked through law school also for the state's attorney general's office. so I always made some money.

Thing is, after WWII vets came back to the GI Bill... they had cheap mortgages, job training, etc. Nothing wrong with doing that for today's vets.

BTW, I wasn't the one who raised the issue or made it a "hypocrisy" issue. Was merely responding to the point raised. That being said, I still think it's good for us as a society to take care of our vets.

 

[CSM]

Yes... I think the fake patriots with the Support Our Troops magnets on their cars are absolutely being hypocritical.

As for the rest...and what I'd have otherwise gotten out of the article had you not used the term hypocrits (instead of just acknowledging the problem), then I'd say yes... it's important that we take care of the people who are being forced to fight Bush's war. Absolutely.

So the fake patriots without magnets (like the idiots in Congress) are NOT hypocritical ... got it.

Which of our all volunteer military are being forced to fight? Must be that "secret" military composed of shanghied black/latinio kids that are missing from high schools across the country. That's the military without enough bullets, armor and stuff.

 

[Diuretic]

So the fake patriots without magnets (like the idiots in Congress) are NOT hypocritical ... got it.

Which of our all volunteer military are being forced to fight? Must be that "secret" military composed of shanghied black/latinio kids that are missing from high schools across the country. That's the military without enough bullets, armor and stuff.

They're ordered to fight aren't they?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

They're ordered to fight aren't they?

They ALL VOLUNTEERED to join the military. Further the war has been on since 2002 ( you remember Afghanistan don't you?". Except for career military most of the troops now have joined SINCE then. ALL BY CHOICE.

Let me break it down for you. When you volunteer you sign an 8 year contract. Stop Loss can not keep you even past those 8 years. So we are at the 6 year mark, not to many left from before the fighting began unless they REENLISTED. This would include the Guard as well, in fact more so since they do not generally join for 8 years.

But thanks for playing.

 

[CSM]

They're ordered to fight aren't they?

Like they didn't know they would be ordered to fight BEFORE they signed up. I suppose there are a few soldiers at Camp Dowhatyouwant who are disgruntled and did not expect to do anything except wear a uniform and collect a paycheck but most of those in the military knew and know full well what they were signing up for.

I also presume you are "forced" to do things because of the lifestyle you choose to live. Funny how that works.

 

[Diuretic]

They ALL VOLUNTEERED to join the military. Further the war has been on since 2002 ( you remember Afghanistan don't you?". Except for career military most of the troops now have joined SINCE then. ALL BY CHOICE.

Let me break it down for you. When you volunteer you sign an 8 year contract. Stop Loss can not keep you even past those 8 years. So we are at the 6 year mark, not to many left from before the fighting began unless they REENLISTED. This would include the Guard as well, in fact more so since they do not generally join for 8 years.

But thanks for playing.

Hey "yes" or "no" are good answers. How about you try one or the other instead of running off at the mouth?

I say again, I say again, "they're ordered to fight aren't they?"

 

[Diuretic]

Like they didn't know they would be ordered to fight BEFORE they signed up. I suppose there are a few soldiers at Camp Dowhatyouwant who are disgruntled and did not expect to do anything except wear a uniform and collect a paycheck but most of those in the military knew and know full well what they were signing up for.

I also presume you are "forced" to do things because of the lifestyle you choose to live. Funny how that works.

In my job or my lifestyle?

But again, I asked a question for a reason and I'm busting to descend on you blokes with my left hook but you're dancing around. Now, are they ordered to fight or do they pick their battles?

 

[CSM]

In my job or my lifestyle?

But again, I asked a question for a reason and I'm busting to descend on you blokes with my left hook but you're dancing around. Now, are they ordered to fight or do they pick their battles?

Not dancing...you are by ignoring the fact that they VOLUNTEERED to join KNOWING they would probably be ordered to fight. Also, being ordered to fight is not the same thing as being FORCED to fight.

That aside, they can always REFUSE to fight. Of course that would mean suffering the consequences but they have that choice. Then again, they could always bide their time and get the hell out when their enlistment is up.

I suppose now you are going to make this into an intolerably long and boring thread about semantics, the definition of the word 'forced' and even throw in a few jibes about rednecks, conservatives, warmongers and brain washed soldiers.

 

[Diuretic]

Not dancing...you are by ignoring the fact that they VOLUNTEERED to join KNOWING they would probably be ordered to fight. Also, being ordered to fight is not the same thing as being FORCED to fight.

That aside, they can always REFUSE to fight. Of course that would mean suffering the consequences but they have that choice. Then again, they could always bide their time and get the hell out when their enlistment is up.

I suppose now you are going to make this into an intolerably long and boring thread about semantics, the definition of the word 'forced' and even throw in a few jibes about rednecks, conservatives, warmongers and brain washed soldiers.

Do you see a social contract between these volunteers and the people who can order them to fight?

And I really find it uncomfortable insulting people for the work they choose to do so, no, I'll leave the personal put-downs out of it.

 

[CSM]

Do you see a social contract between these volunteers and the people who can order them to fight?

And I really find it uncomfortable insulting people for the work they choose to do so, no, I'll leave the personal put-downs out of it.

Atually, there is a contract signed when you enlist as well as an oath. Both of which are signed/taken VOLUNTARILY.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Do you see a social contract between these volunteers and the people who can order them to fight?

And I really find it uncomfortable insulting people for the work they choose to do so, no, I'll leave the personal put-downs out of it.

What part of freedom and volunteering do you not understand? Or are you suggesting people that willingly volunteer for a military that is currently at war just never expected to be sent to fight that war?

As for those few left that joined before this started, are you suggesting they had a reasonable expectation that joining the military would never involve them fighting in a war they may or may not approve of?

 

[Diuretic]

Atually, there is a contract signed when you enlist as well as an oath. Both of which are signed/taken VOLUNTARILY.

That's the legal contract of employment thing, but what about the implied duties on the employer? Are there any? Is there a clause which says, "We promise not to send you somewhere to be killed in an effort to enrich private corporations"?

 

[Diuretic]

What part of freedom and volunteering do you not understand? Or are you suggesting people that willingly volunteer for a military that is currently at war just never expected to be sent to fight that war?

As for those few left that joined before this started, are you suggesting they had a reasonable expectation that joining the military would never involve them fighting in a war they may or may not approve of?

What part of not expecting to be sacrificed to Mammon don't you understand?

 

[CSM]

Here ya go:

http://armyrotc.syr.edu/Files/forms/DD 004.pdf

You will notice that in the contract it does state that the signee could be ordered to fight. You will also notice that the contract specifically states the signee may be required to do things civilians ould not and that the signee is subject to different codes of conduct as well as judicial processes. There's a lot more there too but I know you can read, so have at it.

 

[CSM]

That's the legal contract of employment thing, but what about the implied duties on the employer? Are there any? Is there a clause which says, "We promise not to send you somewhere to be killed in an effort to enrich private corporations"?

You keep stretching like that and you will tear something.

 

[Diuretic]

You keep stretching like that and you will tear something.

So you disagree?