Hoping for the worst

[CrusaderFrank]

Obama is the second wave of the attack

 

[Article 15]

Thats rich! After you guys spent eight years basing you strategy on how bad things were and using it to get into power you go around and claim the other side is doing it to you.

BTW, is things getting better? And have we had a terrorist attack? Yes and Yes so that means that Obama sucks and you know it.

really, nutbar? is that why everyone threw their support behind baby bush after 9.11? or did he have a 90% approval rating b/c the big bad liberals were pretending to hope for him to succeed?

stop projecting

I think most liberals couldn't stand how well the economy was doing up until 07 and exagerated every little thing in order to get into power because why would you change the person in office if there is nothing wrong.

BTW, I am hoping that Obama fails. I don't give a rats ass about him and his agenda but if he would just change his tune to a POLICY that I would like then I would change my mind but in the meantime I will keep hoping that he not only fails but accidently dies in office.

Fucking scumbag

 

[Cecilie1200]

Bush evil? Stubborn, incompetent and not very bright sure, but I don't believe he was evil. Republicans evil? Nope, not as a class, some are, but so are some Democrats.
Even some on the far right are not evil, but too many are.
Consider: liberals (generally) believe in the golden rule; conservatives (generally) believe gold rules.

,

That might be good for a sig. Other than that? Not much.

Rreally? You put a bunch of thought into that retort, huh?

As opposed to the deep cognition it took you to come up with "We're the good guys, and you're all greedy bastards"? Profound post THERE.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's not that the behavior of right wing Repubicans is more egregious then that of Democrats, it's simply a matter of fact that right wingers of all stripes are self righteous hypocrites and that alone makes them contemptable.

And since left-wingers never aspire to any sort of moral standard, they can't be accused of hypocrisy, right? Personally, I find THAT contemptible, but then, I'm busy aspiring to a moral standard.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's not that the behavior of right wing Repubicans is more egregious then that of Democrats, it's simply a matter of fact that right wingers of all stripes are self righteous hypocrites and that alone makes them contemptable.

yep, we are "contemptable" imperfect people trying to make it amongst the perfect people,, it ain't easy,, I tell ya.. oh and yes,, we imperfect are indeed "self righetous hypocrites"" gosh, man how did you get to be so perfect in your morals, your ethics, your compassion,, well in general your perfectedness?? were you born a democrat??

Most Americans were born democrats.

And then most of them grew up.

I claim not perfection, but neither do I claim avarice, bigotry and consorship as traditional values. Can you say the same WT?

Apparently, the big traditional values among Democrats are overweening pride and megalomania. If your ego gets any bigger, it'll be able to cause its own solar eclipse.

 

[Wry Catcher]

yep, we are "contemptable" imperfect people trying to make it amongst the perfect people,, it ain't easy,, I tell ya.. oh and yes,, we imperfect are indeed "self righetous hypocrites"" gosh, man how did you get to be so perfect in your morals, your ethics, your compassion,, well in general your perfectedness?? were you born a democrat??

Most Americans were born democrats. I claim not perfection, but neither do I claim avarice, bigotry and consorship as traditional values. Can you say the same WT?

Your post pretty much tells the tale. Didn't capitalize the "d" in Democrat. Oops! There goes the perfection thingy. I have no clue what consorship is. I am almost certain Wry Catcher doesn't know either. Avarice is mostly a Democratic fault, as they attempt to covet the wealth of anyone they think they can tax. Bigtory seems to be a mutual problem for Democrat and Republican alike. If you define it as a intolerance for opposing views, this thread begs for you to consider Democrats first and foremost.

You're really funny. I didn't capitalize the 'd' in democrat, because the sentence is about democracy and Americans, not about Democracy (the political party) and Americans. As for my error in spelling censorship, I plead guilty. If that's the best you've got - give yourself a hand.

 

[Ravi]

Hoping for the worst

The biggest terrorist attack happened when Obama was sworn into office. It'll take a lot to top that.

you know, X. i usually think you're kind of funny. but that's disgusting.

but thanks for proving maggie's point.

and as a resident of nyc, i think that comment truly beneath you

Except for the usually think you're funny part, I agree.

 

[MaggieMae]

Is it me or did the topic change on this thread? Why? Maggie Mae has decided that the accusation that most on the right are hoping for the worst isn't quite true? I mean if it is, where are the links? I seriously thought she was upset in part by my post about 'credible threats.' I guess not, as she's now backtracking. So why did she post this thread? Which threads was she talking about? Who are the haters of Americans to gain political advantage.

MM, if I misstated your reasoning for the accusation, I apologize in advance.

The reason I'm not linking threads or naming names is because those very people would offer up zero contributions other than go on the attack against me, complete with their usual stream of foul language. They wouldn't try to justify their opinions, because there IS no justification for their tone. No, I wasn't talking about you in particular--just a whole string of threads that all seemed to convey that they are "at war" but with other Americans and that "winning" the war of Us vs. Them is what's important, not the myriad problems ALL OF US face.

 

[MaggieMae]

Continuing to post on poor retail numbers, employment/unemployment rates, economic trends, etc. isn't "Hoping for the worst in America," it's merely showing people that life isn't cotton candy, bunnies, and rainbows all day long. Reality has to be faced sooner or later.

Considering that every Democrat and leftist in sight was screeching that we were "in a recession" - if not a depression, from some of the loonier ones - a full year before we even had ONE quarter without growth, it's pretty rich to hear one of them now pissing her pants because conservatives/Republicans are daring to talk about bad news that's actually happening.

Of course, there are many excellent reasons that I have Maggie on ignore, and her utter hypocrisy is just one of them.

The point of my OP apparently flew right over your head. It's the TONE and the THREATS that I find a dangerous path for America to be on, not the differences of opinion by intelligent, well-intentioned people.

 

[MaggieMae]

MM, I'm curious if you are now saying those from the 'left' that did this ad nauseam to Bush and tied McCain to such, were wrong? Or is it just that Obama plays by different parameters?

I want the homeland safe, wth, I want every place safe and free from attacks. I want 'no more war.' I certainly want unemployment down and the economy up. I want all children to go to school in safe buildings, free from worry of any sort of attack, whether from crazies out to kill massive numbers or gang bangers. I would love to see everyone have a safe, secure home. No poverty, no hunger, no needs unmet. I can live with unmet wants, but needs?

The air of anger and discourse has existed for over a decade, which I've already alluded to. But, as someone pointed out, it never began immediately after an inauguration until now. Probably more and more people having access to inflammatory junk on the Internet plays a huge part. For example, I often will try to find the real source for some story making the rounds, and I will need to weed through several Google pages of mis or disinformation put up on the Internet about the story before I actually get to a few facts, which often prove that the followup stories have conveniently omitted something or embellished the story to suit the political agenda of whoever published it.

It would be so much more informative if you gave examples of what you are saying. In this particular instance, your thread, there are accusations without any sources, even from this site. You claim that there are numerous threads found in certain forums, without your naming the threads. Why? I'm left with the impression that it's spin for Obama.

It's not spin for Obama. Count me among the many other moderate Democrats who are finding it more and more difficult to continue to support his economic policies. And now I'm angry that he's asking for a war supplemental when he said that the war expenditures would be part of the DoD budget so that those amounts could be legitimately added to the deficit. I said I would give him a year and see if he and his team could pull us out of this economic mess, but I still don't see consumer confidence rising (which is what it will take for the economy visibly fall back into line). But that also doesn't mean I'm going to start shouting and rallying against him nor join the mob scene that would like to see him lynched.

 

[jillian]

The point of my OP apparently flew right over your head. It's the TONE and the THREATS that I find a dangerous path for America to be on, not the differences of opinion by intelligent, well-intentioned people.

of course it flew over her head. creepy cecile thinks everyone who disagrees with her is a...

ready....

wait for it....


leftist!

oh no! the horror.

I think you'll find she drank the kool aid undiluted.

 

[MaggieMae]

Thats rich! After you guys spent eight years basing you strategy on how bad things were and using it to get into power you go around and claim the other side is doing it to you.

BTW, is things getting better? And have we had a terrorist attack? Yes and Yes so that means that Obama sucks and you know it.

really, nutbar? is that why everyone threw their support behind baby bush after 9.11? or did he have a 90% approval rating b/c the big bad liberals were pretending to hope for him to succeed?

stop projecting

I think most liberals couldn't stand how well the economy was doing up until 07 and exagerated every little thing in order to get into power because why would you change the person in office if there is nothing wrong.

BTW, I am hoping that Obama fails. I don't give a rats ass about him and his agenda but if he would just change his tune to a POLICY that I would like then I would change my mind but in the meantime I will keep hoping that he not only fails but accidently dies in office.

^^ The reason why I don't need to post any names. They all come slinking out of the woodwork eventually and dig their own graves.

 

[MaggieMae]

Maggie, et al

Good post and very true, the same happened when Clinton won. That marked the start of it as the conservative media machine and years of corporate support for think tanks and editorial opinion has clouded the minds of many republicans and conservatives. Foes make some comfortable, gives them reason for living.

I don't remember it happening before Clinton and Bush Jr, while mediocre and a bit lost at first had things easy too. Bush criticisms didn't start till he squandered the surplus and invaded the wrong nation. Katrina didn't help either. Contrast with Haiti under the Obama administration.

It is change and the loss of power that get so republicans and conservatives up in arms. Clinton tried healthcare and gay acceptance in the military and the wingnuts went nuts. It is a difficult phenomenon to understand or even outline. I was talking to some friends just today who wondered how the right became so unreasonable. I don't know.

These are interesting and explain a bit. It could just be human nature rebels against things that don't fit their world view and reason has no place here. Hirschman even picks on we perfect people. LOL

Amazon.com: The Rhetoric of Reaction: Perversity, Futility, Jeopardy (9780674768680): Albert O. Hirschman: Books

Harvard University Press: The Rhetoric of Reaction : Perversity, Futility, Jeopardy by Albert O. Hirschman

Amazon.com: On Being Certain: Believing You Are Right Even When You're Not (9780312541521): Robert Burton: Books

Good points, and I'm glad you linked a few books because why would there have been written hundreds of articles (many by conservatives) and books discussing this very subject? It isn't just me, folks, who see this ugly atmosphere as being dangerous.

 

[MaggieMae]

Well, here's my 2 cents:

I think that there are certain media figures, such as Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glen Beck who pray silently every day for a major terrorist attack.

I truly believe this, as if it happened their ratings would skyrocket well beyond what they currently enjoy, and I believe that ratings is all they care about in the world.

I also believe that this secret desire bleeds out in the talking points that they disseminate to "the faithful" every day on their programs.

So, truthfully, I don't think the average Joe right-winger WANTS another 9-11, at least not consciously, but it seems like they do when looking at their statements.

I also firmly believe that Dick Cheney does in fact desperately want there to be another 9-11, so that his Vice Presidency will somehow be vindicated.

There are a few other radical members of the right-wing that want another 9-11 for their own reasons, but I think they are few and an far between.

Here's a few: Elliott Abrams Gary Bauer William J. Bennett Jeb Bush

Dick Cheney Eliot A. Cohen Midge Decter Paula Dobriansky Steve Forbes

Aaron Friedberg Francis Fukuyama Frank Gaffney Fred C. Ikle

Donald Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad I. Lewis Libby Norman Podhoretz

Dan Quayle Peter W. Rodman Stephen P. Rosen Henry S. Rowen

Donald Rumsfeld Vin Weber George Weigel Paul Wolfowitz

Good one! I'm betting most people who post on this board don't realize those are the signatories to The Project for a New American Century, aka PNAC, which called for US unilateral military intervention in the Middle East and neighboring regions, and which prompted the 2002 Bush Doctrine (National Security Policy) saying pretty much the same thing. Only one of those names, Francis Fukuyama, seemed to have a change of heart following the invasion of Iraq.

 

[MaggieMae]

hey fails, talk about smoke and mirrors, 2 wars run off the budget and tax cuts on top of that, why can't you simple morons admit the chickens finally came home to roost

Why can't you admit to yourself that that was the political strategy of the left during the Bush years. It was like every bit of good news was downplayed or not even played at all. The economy grew during the Bush years and those wars are done with so I would consider that a success. Its one thing to point out legitimate problems but to actually skewer the debate around a single strategy to get into power is just plain wrong.

How did the economy grow? Because Americans could have every material thing they wanted because they owned every charge card on earth? Businesses and industries continued to close and jobs continued to go overseas; wages remained stagnant; benefits were cut or eliminated. Wall Street was investing across the pond, not in this country. All during that time, we were creating a giant bubble. Yup, balloons always look pretty as they keep expanding, but eventually they can't hold anymore air, and they burst.

 

[MaggieMae]

really, nutbar? is that why everyone threw their support behind baby bush after 9.11? or did he have a 90% approval rating b/c the big bad liberals were pretending to hope for him to succeed?

stop projecting

I th most liberals couldn't stand how well the economy was doing up until 07 and exagerated every little thing in order to get into power because why would you change the person in office if there is nothing wrong.

BTW, I am hoping that Obama fails. I don't give a rats ass about him and his agenda but if he would just change his tune to a POLICY that I would like then I would change my mind but in the meantime I will keep hoping that he not only fails but accidently dies in office.

You hope he dies in office? You don't know jack shit about his policies; nor have any understanding of Western Philosophy, world or American history or current events. You exceed what I call willful ignorance and you disgust me! Your opinions are wothless for the words you post have the same substance as that of a parrot in a cage - yes, you appear to be that dumb.
The sad, and scary thing is, you're not alone. America won't fall because some assholes fly a few planes into buildings, or bomb an aircraft and kill a couple of hundred people, America will fall because stupid people like you hold opinions based on hate and fear and will sell the rights so many have died for for a little bit of security.

Exactly. A nation is only as good as its citizens. When countries face crises, if the people can only turn on each other like Neanderthals rather than trying to be a part of the solution, then they eventually retreat back to the caves.

 

[MaggieMae]

I want Obama to survive presidency. Indeed, I want him to come through with good health. I want him to help our economy. If he does that, I'll probably vote for him, though I don't expect either via his policies.

I don't want the US gov't to control banks, health care, auto industry, coal mines, etc. I want all those in private hands. I know the Europeans want and are comfortable with that, just don't think it's right for America. We're sort of contrarians, we want to say what we want, from government and/or employers. We're also comfortable saying that there are limits for both. We'll call those limits. Bottom line, governement/laws are coming from the people.

To be honest, I'm glad that so many people are waking up to the behemoth bureacracy government has become rather than being so complacent as it slowly has reached that point. We may disagree on specific issues and how best to deal with them, but awareness is the first step in accomplishing YOUR goals, as well as mine, so I appreciate your common sense comment. Once again, it's the people who are just angry, yet clueless, that seem to be outnumbering the rest of us who are truly concerned. When news cycles shift from some silly he said/she said nonsense every day it seems, the crazies appear to be winning. And that's scary.

 

[MaggieMae]

Yes, things are getting better

I wish!

They are not getting better... they will eventually, but they are not getting better despite what the Obama Administration has been saying since February. Things are not getting better. They will and most likely it will happen before the President leaves office even if he decides to only serve one term, but things are not yet getting better... at least not for those of us who are still worried about our jobs.

Immie

What can he do about jobs? He can't force businesses to hire. This is a vicious cycle, almost a Catch-22. Businesses are still afraid they won't have access to long-term credit they need to keep going successfully and therefore won't hire. So until credit starts flowing again, we're at a standstill. The big Wall Street financial institutions had a more profitable year than last year. So where are they investing those profits? That's the $64,000 question, not what Obama will "do" about jobs. He wouldn't have to do ANYTHING if the very institutions we boosted up from bankruptcy would start doing business as intended.

 

[MaggieMae]

It's not that the behavior of right wing Repubicans is more egregious then that of Democrats, it's simply a matter of fact that right wingers of all stripes are self righteous hypocrites and that alone makes them contemptable.

Guilty as charged.

Want to know what makes liberals contemptible? No, of course you don't, but I am going to tell you anyway... their insistence that the rest of us be tolerant towards them and their causes, but their down right refusal to tolerate us.

Immie

Huh? I tolerate you. I even like you. There are many who post on this board who have legitimate counter opinions which is fine.

 

[jillian]

Thats rich! After you guys spent eight years basing you strategy on how bad things were and using it to get into power you go around and claim the other side is doing it to you.

BTW, is things getting better? And have we had a terrorist attack? Yes and Yes so that means that Obama sucks and you know it.

really, nutbar? is that why everyone threw their support behind baby bush after 9.11? or did he have a 90% approval rating b/c the big bad liberals were pretending to hope for him to succeed?

stop projecting

I think most liberals couldn't stand how well the economy was doing up until 07 and exagerated every little thing in order to get into power because why would you change the person in office if there is nothing wrong.

BTW, I am hoping that Obama fails. I don't give a rats ass about him and his agenda but if he would just change his tune to a POLICY that I would like then I would change my mind but in the meantime I will keep hoping that he not only fails but accidently dies in office.

Really? And I'm thinking you're an insane troll.

so there ya go.