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Honoring The Sacrifices Of The Soviet Union in WWII….Really?

rightwinger

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They could have done their dying closer to Moscow. The Cold War would have bene much less scary if the Iron Curtain was the Polish Russian border instead of in the middle of Germany.


NOt to mention generations of whole nations, avoiding totalitarian oppression and mass murder.
Well, they did
Stalingrad and Leningrad also

But once they defeated the Germans there, they had no choice but to fall back

Hitler was terrified of what the Russians would do. That is why most of his forces were on the Eastern Front

If he put those Divisions in the West, we never would have dislodged them
 

harmonica

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They could have done their dying closer to Moscow. The Cold War would have bene much less scary if the Iron Curtain was the Polish Russian border instead of in the middle of Germany.


NOt to mention generations of whole nations, avoiding totalitarian oppression and mass murder.
..we had a hard enough time getting where we did on the WestFront
...please detail how the Cold War would've been '''MUCH less scary'''
 

harmonica

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Well, they did
Stalingrad and Leningrad also

But once they defeated the Germans there, they had no choice but to fall back

Hitler was terrified of what the Russians would do. That is why most of his forces were on the Eastern Front

If he put those Divisions in the West, we never would have dislodged them
..if it wasn't for hitler putting his nose into it, it would've been even harder without those extra forces
 

Circe

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The war propaganda in support of the Marxists has never abated, and has led America to a precipice. Now, the truth.


1.An interesting and significant month, August.

August 20–25, 1944
Allied troops reach Paris. On August 25, Free French forces, supported by Allied troops, enter the French capital. By September, the Allies reach the German border; by December, virtually all of France, most of Belgium, and part of the southern Netherlands are liberated. World War II: Timeline.

Did you see any mention of Soviet troops there?


2. Government school propaganda provides two beliefs about the Soviets in WWII.

a. That they deserve gratitude and honor for their valiant efforts and great loses in the war

b. U.S. war propaganda had painted pipesmoking "Uncle Joe Stalin" as a friendly fellow, and the liberal propaganda left people to thinking of Communist Party members as lovable idealists.

Really???

There is no honor or credit due to the Soviet Union because they lost 20 million in the war. The glorification of the role that the Soviets played in WWII is unfounded, and almost entirely due to the neo-Marxist influence in our society due to Democrats/Liberals/Progressives doing public relations for them, as they share the same values and aims.

First: most of the Soviet loses were their troops killed by Stalin’s own forces. One reason they lost 20 million, while we lost 415,000 was due to the value that America placed on human life, and the lack of same interest by Bolsheviks: they don’t care about human life, a characteristic absorbed and propounded by the current Democrat Party.



3. "Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin"
Major Soviet Paper Says 20 Million Died As Victims of Stalin

And.....

World War II left over 27 million Soviet citizens dead....but only a fraction of them were killed by the Germans. Yet throughout the West. 'war crimes' is a phrase only attacked to the Nazis. When the Red Army marched, an NKVD army marched behind, with its own tanks, machine guns, firing forward....never allowing retreat. More than a million Soviet citizens joined the Nazis. Ask yourself this: why was it that the USSR, of all the Allies, had provided the enemy with thousands of recruits? Nearly one million Russian and other anti-Soviet men joined the enemy of their Soviet Army. "The Secret Betrayal" by Nikolai Tolstoy, p. 19-20.

And.....

"In 1945 Zhukov is reported to have said to US General Dwight D. Eisenhower, "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." The shear weight of numbers eventually drove the Germans back, along with the Soviet leadership's determination not to relent, whatever the cost."



Tom Clancy has a hero combat soldier exclaim his opinion about the thugs who ran the Soviet Union, the communists:

"Misha waved his hand, looking in annoyance at the way it shook. "I have never had much respect for the chekisti. When I was leading my men, they were there-behind us. They were very efficient at shooting prisoners-prisoners that real soldiers had taken. They were also rather good at murdering people who'd been forced to retreat. I even remember one case where a chekist lieutenant took command of a tank troop and led it into a fucking swamp. At least the Germans I killed were men, fighting men. I hated them, but I could respect them for the soldiers they were. Your kind, on the other hand… perhaps we simple soldiers never really understood who the enemy was. Sometimes I wonder who has killed more Russians, the Germans-or people like you?" “The Cardinal of the Kremlin,”p. 383



So those ‘great loses’ were not at the hands of the Germans, they were by their own leaders. Someone should have told Roosevelt.

Oh…wait….they did!

Love is blind.
All wrong. I see you have never read Churchill on WWII or any books about WWII.

The Soviet Union soaking up German soldiers' lives on the Eastern Front is probably why we, the allies, won WWII. And the allies sure knew this at the time and gave every assistance they could to Russia --- supplies, arms, and not as much as Stalin begged for, opening other fronts in the war.
 

Correll

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Well, they did
Stalingrad and Leningrad also

But once they defeated the Germans there, they had no choice but to fall back

Hitler was terrified of what the Russians would do. That is why most of his forces were on the Eastern Front

If he put those Divisions in the West, we never would have dislodged them


So, no lend lease, after they win those battles, they don't have the trucks to advance or advance much slower.
 

Circe

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Oh, man, I got caught again ----- this is one of those antique threads. Why did the board start putting them up? I hate that.
 

Correll

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..we had a hard enough time getting where we did on the WestFront
...please detail how the Cold War would've been '''MUCH less scary'''


if the soviets had their tanks sitting in Russia instead of the middle of Germany, that would be less scary.
 

harmonica

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if the soviets had their tanks sitting in Russia instead of the middle of Germany, that would be less scary.
...doesn't matter where they are-----they still have bombers and nukes.....they would still be a threat ...they OWNED Poland!!! they'd go right through it
 

Correll

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...doesn't matter where they are-----they still have bombers and nukes.....they would still be a threat ...they OWNED Poland!!! they'd go right through it


This is based on one of my gripes about FDR, that he was way to friendly with the Soviet Union and Stalin.

I was discussing a way that WWII could have been handled better with regards to the post war situation.
 

rightwinger

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..we had a hard enough time getting where we did on the WestFront
...please detail how the Cold War would've been '''MUCH less scary'''
If he thinks the Cold War was scary, imagine the Cold War we would have had with Nazi Germany
 

rightwinger

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This is based on one of my gripes about FDR, that he was way to friendly with the Soviet Union and Stalin.

I was discussing a way that WWII could have been handled better with regards to the post war situation.
What did FDR give the Soviets that you disagree with?
 

harmonica

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This is based on one of my gripes about FDR, that he was way to friendly with the Soviet Union and Stalin.

I was discussing a way that WWII could have been handled better with regards to the post war situation.
THAT [ the war and post- war ] is/was VERY complicated......there was so much politics in it .....one of the reasons is because the Russians were not just going to let the other Allies do whatever they wanted--ESPECIALLY since the Russians bore the brunt of the death and destruction .....and the US could not bully them with the Atomic bomb
...AND, they knew the other Allies were not '''friendly'''
....no, the handling of the post-war was like the war---NOT a movie/NOT a board game/etc -very complicated ...and all the countries had MANY problems of their own--politically and logistically ......that's why there were so many civil wars after the war--Greece/Balkans/Korea/Vietnam/etc....much unrest without civil wars
WW2 was the most destructive and CONSTRUCTIVE war----many new nations and politics after the war
 

rightwinger

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if the soviets had their tanks sitting in Russia instead of the middle of Germany, that would be less scary.
The Soviets had to fight for every inch of land on the way to Germany
 

Correll

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Correll

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THAT [ the war and post- war ] is/was VERY complicated......there was so much politics in it .....one of the reasons is because the Russians were not just going to let the other Allies do whatever they wanted--ESPECIALLY since the Russians bore the brunt of the death and destruction .....and the US could not bully them with the Atomic bomb
...AND, they knew the other Allies were not '''friendly'''
....no, the handling of the post-war was like the war---NOT a movie/NOT a board game/etc -very complicated ...and all the countries had MANY problems of their own--politically and logistically ......that's why there were so many civil wars after the war--Greece/Balkans/Korea/Vietnam/etc....much unrest without civil wars
WW2 was the most destructive and CONSTRUCTIVE war----many new nations and politics after the war


I know. I still think that FDR still was too sympathetic to Stalin and the Soviet Union and did not give enough, if any consideration to the post war situation.
 

harmonica

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They could have done their dying closer to Moscow. The Cold War would have bene much less scary if the Iron Curtain was the Polish Russian border instead of in the middle of Germany.


NOt to mention generations of whole nations, avoiding totalitarian oppression and mass murder.
hey--hey --there is no way the Allies were going to get to the Polish border before the Russians........as I stated, it was hard enough to get where we did
 

rightwinger

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Lend lease and Eastern Europe.
Lend Lease worked
It allowed the Soviets to fight the Germans while we wouldn’t
If the Soviets did not occupy Eastern Europe, the Nazis would have

Choose your poison
 

harmonica

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I know. I still think that FDR still was too sympathetic to Stalin and the Soviet Union and did not give enough, if any consideration to the post war situation.
the Russians weren't going to give it up even if FDR wanted it
 

Correll

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The Soviets had to fight for every inch of land on the way to Germany


Yep. And if they did not have so much support from US, they would have gotten less of that land.


Would you have LIKED to see a free Eastern Europe during the 50s, 60s, 70s, and the 80s?
 

rightwinger

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Yep. And if they did not have so much support from US, they would have gotten less of that land.


Would you have LIKED to see a free Eastern Europe during the 50s, 60s, 70s, and the 80s?
What makes you think Eastern Europe would be free?

If the Soviets did not occupy it, the Nazis would have
 

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