Honestly folks how did we let this happen?

[TakeAStepBack]

When Bush asked the nation to change its laws so big government could get bigger and more invasive; and so that bureaucrats could have more access to our private communications, he argued that it was four our protection. He wanted us to trust in the competence and the ethics of big government. Not one Republican/libertarian questioned him. Not one Republican/libertarian brought up the law of unintended consequences. The Bush administration created the legal infrastructure for surveillance over the American people, and his base, the people we count on to curb the power of government, cheered him on.

Bull-*******-shit, fella. Every libertarian and even libert-conservatives were completely against the laws that allowed that to happen. making shit up to try and make it out like libertarians were complacent in republican big government schemes just makes you look totally ignorant of reality.

 

[aplcr0331]

It's somebody else's fault.

 

[ClosedCaption]

When Bush asked the nation to change its laws so big government could get bigger and more invasive; and so that bureaucrats could have more access to our private communications, he argued that it was four our protection. He wanted us to trust in the competence and the ethics of big government. Not one Republican/libertarian questioned him. Not one Republican/libertarian brought up the law of unintended consequences. The Bush administration created the legal infrastructure for surveillance over the American people, and his base, the people we count on to curb the power of government, cheered him on.

Bull-*******-shit, fella. Every libertarian and even libert-conservatives were completely against the laws that allowed that to happen. making shit up to try and make it out like libertarians were complacent in republican big government schemes just makes you look totally ignorant of reality.

Yeah I hear that a lot. All these people were really really against it but all those people were no where to be found to have a voice when it was happening.

Maybe everyone couldnt hear their opposition over the screams of calling anyone who questioned this as "terrorist sympathizers" and Karl Rove and Company saying everyone who opposed the "Unitary Executive" was "with the terrorist".

Despite no one hearing the repubs / libertarians opposition...it really did happen. A roach pissing on a cotton ball made more noise

 

[DGS49]

1. What we now call spying, the Founding Fathers would have laughed about. The arguments that it violates the 4th Amendment ("The right of the people to be secure...against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated...") are tenuous indeed. Any idea what the word, "unreasonable" means?

2. "Due process"? Are you shitting me? Do you think we gave the gooks we were shooting at in Vietnam "due process"? Any idea what the expression "enemy combatants" means?

3. Exactly. Congress needs to get on the stick and put a stop to this, and they are probably the only ones who can do it. And regardless of the number of Executive Orders, this president is regularly, blatantly, and illegally, re-writing the very legislation that he is sworn to "execute."

And we elected this bastard, twice.

Woe is us.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

YOu all claim how us libertarians are so insignificant and our numbers and ideas are small and stupid. Then you turn around and blame us that we weren't vocal enough for you to hear and stood by complacently while republicans made big government progressive policies that you all actually like as long as the democrats are doing it.

Your credibility on libertarians is fucked, pal. You have none.

 

[Katzndogz]

How did it happen? Very simple. In an effort to finally put slavery behind us we elected a black man as president. Every question as to his qualifications was dismissed by emphasizing racism. Once elected and by virtue of his skin color he could do no wrong. He was incapable of making a bad decision simply because he is black.

obama proved to be a very poor leader and a very poor human being. Because he is black we can't admit it and replace him . That's how it happened.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Honestly folks how did we let this happen?

(1) We let the Bush admin allow this because of our fear of the War on Terrorism.

(2) We let the BHO admin continue the practice.

 

[Mac1958]

If capitalism worked, there wouldn't be a $17 trillion national debt. The failure of humanity is faith in money.

I don't disagree.

Look at the bigger picture: A key component in capitalism is the responsibility of our "leaders" to maintain sound economic policy, and our "leaders" (party affiliation irrelevant) have been an abject failure in that area. That lack of responsibility has spread to our culture, where we purchase homes and cars and myriad other items on credit, just as our "leaders" do.

Capitalism has been a success not in the plastic shit we can buy from China, it has been a success in the opportunity it has given people to improve their own lives and its ability to create. However, it has been corrupted and distorted almost beyond recognition, and that's what I mean by it "working too well". We have taken a good thing and made a caricature of it. And now, in some ways, we've become caricatures ourselves.

.

You must be living with a very different "capitalism" than we have on Planet Earth. On this planet, it has had the exact opposite effect.

I have no idea what this means.

You'll need to explain.

.

 

[ClosedCaption]

YOu all claim how us libertarians are so insignificant and our numbers and ideas are small and stupid. Then you turn around and blame us that we weren't vocal enough for you to hear and stood by complacently while republicans made big government progressive policies that you all actually like as long as the democrats are doing it.

Your credibility on libertarians is fucked, pal. You have none.

So many strawmen here.

Libertarians are insignificant AND they should have been more vocal. One doesnt stop the other from happening. No liberal that I know supports Obama doing the spying. Obama is the POTUS and he is a Dem. For you that is enough to assume that every Dems supports anything Obama does.

I'm telling you no. You will quote me and say I really mean "Yes". Thats how you work

 

[hatman]

This is simple a group people vote democrat no matter how bad their ideas are.
Then a another group of people vote republicans no matter how bad their ideas are.

Don't know what their ideas, ideals, or ethics are but if he's a got D or R next his name they got my vote! My team is always right yours is wrong child like mentality really dumbed-down
our nation.


And it never changes.

Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.
Jerry Garica

 

[KNB]

The current system is based on Cannabis prohibition and the monopolization of natural resources.

Legalize Cannabis Sativa again to allow the general public to provide for the general welfare, and end US dependence on corporations and foreign imports. This is how America pulled itself out of the Great Depression.

In 1942, with the US at war, foreign imports in the hands of our enemies, and our economy still reeling from the crash of 1929, the US Department of Agriculture legalized "Marihuana."

Three years later, the US was the #1 nuclear superpower on Earth. Cannabis Sativa, known as industrial hemp, demonized as a "dangerous" drug called "Marihuana", gave America the raw materials needed to sustain our society without foreign imports, and we helped stop two dictators and end global genocide.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngc0_mQ5tjE]Hemp For Victory (1942) U.S. Department of Agriculture - YouTube[/ame]

Vote Hemp: Why Hemp?: New Billion-Dollar Crop
The feasibility of converting Cannabis sat... [Bioresour Technol. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32725.pdf
http://evanmills.lbl.gov/pubs/pdf/cannabis-carbon-footprint.pdf
http://www.liq.wa.gov/publications/Marijuana/SEPA/5d_Environmental_Risks_and_Opportunities_in_Cannabis_Cultivation.pdf
http://pub.epsilon.slu.se/8415/1/prade_t_111102.pdf
UConn Biofuel Consortium
http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/59909/676695681.pdf?...1
https://lup.lub.lu.se/search/publication/1868648
http://lup.lub.lu.se/luur/download?func=downloadFile&recordOId=2856430&fileOId=2857088
Effect of harvest date on combustion related fuel properties of industrial hemp (Cannabis sativa L.) - Fuel - Tom 102, Numer Complete (2012) - Biblioteka Nauki - Yadda
https://www.uky.edu/Ag/AgEcon/pubs/res_other/hemp98.pdf
Hemp: A New Crop with New Uses for North America
http://www.nyu.edu/classes/keefer/EvergreenEnergy/kforbin.pdf
Industrial Hemp - Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada (AAFC)
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=93&ved=0CC0QFjACOFo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhumboldt-dspace.calstate.edu%2Fbitstream%2Fhandle%2F2148%2F1461%2FArnold_Jessica_M_Sp2013-r.pdf%3Fsequence%3D4&ei=UfTnUqLJNI-FogSHuIKoAg&usg=AFQjCNGePT2nLRH82rx6h817DYxZ6v-J3A&cad=rja
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=91&cad=rja&ved=0CCMQFjAAOFo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcore.kmi.open.ac.uk%2Fdownload%2Fpdf%2F2778292.pdf&ei=UfTnUqLJNI-FogSHuIKoAg&usg=AFQjCNFqhjiy8F4VRqHnZ08t7CZFDqLgXQ
Marijuana Timeline | Busted - America's War On Marijuana | FRONTLINE | PBS

Today, even American hemp is made in China.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

YOu all claim how us libertarians are so insignificant and our numbers and ideas are small and stupid. Then you turn around and blame us that we weren't vocal enough for you to hear and stood by complacently while republicans made big government progressive policies that you all actually like as long as the democrats are doing it.

Your credibility on libertarians is fucked, pal. You have none.

So many strawmen here.

Libertarians are insignificant AND they should have been more vocal. One doesnt stop the other from happening. No liberal that I know supports Obama doing the spying. Obama is the POTUS and he is a Dem. For you that is enough to assume that every Dems supports anything Obama does.

I'm telling you no. You will quote me and say I really mean "Yes". Thats how you work

I could point to article, blog and thread in long lists where libertarians voiced their outrage, but it doesn't matter to you. You do not even know what libertarian means. We're insignificant, have no numbers, but she be more vocal against what you dislike, not out of principle, but out of partisanship. Again, you have no credit on libertarians. And you all raved and ranted when Bush was doing what Obama is now. The difference is you've shut up and accepted it because you elected the ****** doing it now. That's why you're just another modern day liberal hypocrite.

 

[ClosedCaption]

YOu all claim how us libertarians are so insignificant and our numbers and ideas are small and stupid. Then you turn around and blame us that we weren't vocal enough for you to hear and stood by complacently while republicans made big government progressive policies that you all actually like as long as the democrats are doing it.

Your credibility on libertarians is fucked, pal. You have none.

So many strawmen here.

Libertarians are insignificant AND they should have been more vocal. One doesnt stop the other from happening. No liberal that I know supports Obama doing the spying. Obama is the POTUS and he is a Dem. For you that is enough to assume that every Dems supports anything Obama does.

I'm telling you no. You will quote me and say I really mean "Yes". Thats how you work

I could point to article, blog and thread in long lists where libertarians voiced their outrage, but it doesn't matter to you.

Sure you could sparky! You could link to MILLIONS of them! MILLIONS!....of blogs and threads...Wait, your opposition was done from your mothers basement behind a keyboard Blogs and Threads

You do not even know what libertarian means. We're insignificant, have no numbers, but she be more vocal against what you dislike, not out of principle, but out of partisanship. Again, you have no credit on libertarians. And you all raved and ranted when Bush was doing what Obama is now. The difference is you've shut up and accepted it because you elected the ****** doing it now. That's why you're just another modern day liberal hypocrite.

Try talking about yourself for a change. Like I said I tell you I dont support Obama and you say that I do because if you had to debate what I say out of my mouth you wouldnt have your bail of hay to kick around no more.

You typed 2 sentences about proof of being against Spying, War etc then type a paragraph fighting your strawmen. Good work champ!

Keep on voicing your oppostition in blogs and Message Board threads...Dont want you to have to wash your face and put on clothes and stuff

 

[TakeAStepBack]

So many strawmen here.

Libertarians are insignificant AND they should have been more vocal. One doesnt stop the other from happening. No liberal that I know supports Obama doing the spying. Obama is the POTUS and he is a Dem. For you that is enough to assume that every Dems supports anything Obama does.

I'm telling you no. You will quote me and say I really mean "Yes". Thats how you work

I could point to article, blog and thread in long lists where libertarians voiced their outrage, but it doesn't matter to you.

Sure you could sparky! You could link to MILLIONS of them! MILLIONS!....of blogs and threads...Wait, your opposition was done from your mothers basement behind a keyboard Blogs and Threads

You do not even know what libertarian means. We're insignificant, have no numbers, but she be more vocal against what you dislike, not out of principle, but out of partisanship. Again, you have no credit on libertarians. And you all raved and ranted when Bush was doing what Obama is now. The difference is you've shut up and accepted it because you elected the ****** doing it now. That's why you're just another modern day liberal hypocrite.

Try talking about yourself for a change. Like I said I tell you I dont support Obama and you say that I do because if you had to debate what I say out of my mouth you wouldnt have your bail of hay to kick around no more.

You typed 2 sentences about proof of being against Spying, War etc then type a paragraph fighting your strawmen. Good work champ!

Keep on voicing your oppostition in blogs and Message Board threads...Dont want you to have to wash your face and put on clothes and stuff

Typical dishonest, modern day liberal hypocrite. Did I say millions? Of course not. but go ahead and insert it. Reason Mag ran article after article about it. Mises, though an economics school, voiced their disdain for the programs and elaborated on the economics of it. If one had enough brain power, they can find plenty of content from the jump that libertarians weren't on the republican progressive big government cheerleading squad.


Where is the voice of liberal outrage over Obama's use of the tools Bush left him? What about the lying? You guys have no credibility. You fall silent, you defend it and then sheepishly say "i do not support that" while you sit there silently and then accuse libertarians of not being vocal enough.
You have no outrage over it now. let me guess, you exhausted yourself being so vocal when Bush did it you lost your collective voices after Obama became the same.



Liars and hypocrites.

 

[JakeStarkey]

YOu all claim how us libertarians are so insignificant and our numbers and ideas are small and stupid. Then you turn around and blame us that we weren't vocal enough for you to hear and stood by complacently while republicans made big government progressive policies that you all actually like as long as the democrats are doing it.

Your credibility on libertarians is fucked, pal. You have none.

So many strawmen here.

Libertarians are insignificant AND they should have been more vocal. One doesnt stop the other from happening. No liberal that I know supports Obama doing the spying. Obama is the POTUS and he is a Dem. For you that is enough to assume that every Dems supports anything Obama does.

I'm telling you no. You will quote me and say I really mean "Yes". Thats how you work

I could point to article, blog and thread in long lists where libertarians voiced their outrage, but it doesn't matter to you. You do not even know what libertarian means. We're insignificant, have no numbers, but she be more vocal against what you dislike, not out of principle, but out of partisanship. Again, you have no credit on libertarians. And you all raved and ranted when Bush was doing what Obama is now. The difference is you've shut up and accepted it because you elected the ****** doing it now. That's why you're just another modern day liberal hypocrite.

You are comments are rambling and incoherent, TASB.

Pubs, Dems, and everyone else, for the greater part, of accepted what these administrations have done.

That is going to erase the Republic in to which I was born.

It also means that "libertarians", whatever that means because they can't agree on what it means, are simply a mildly interesting footnote in American history.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

So many strawmen here.

Libertarians are insignificant AND they should have been more vocal. One doesnt stop the other from happening. No liberal that I know supports Obama doing the spying. Obama is the POTUS and he is a Dem. For you that is enough to assume that every Dems supports anything Obama does.

I'm telling you no. You will quote me and say I really mean "Yes". Thats how you work

I could point to article, blog and thread in long lists where libertarians voiced their outrage, but it doesn't matter to you. You do not even know what libertarian means. We're insignificant, have no numbers, but she be more vocal against what you dislike, not out of principle, but out of partisanship. Again, you have no credit on libertarians. And you all raved and ranted when Bush was doing what Obama is now. The difference is you've shut up and accepted it because you elected the ****** doing it now. That's why you're just another modern day liberal hypocrite.

You are comments are rambling and incoherent, TASB.

Pubs, Dems, and everyone else, for the greater part, of accepted what these administrations have done.

That is going to erase the Republic in to which I was born.

It also means that "libertarians", whatever that means because they can't agree on what it means, are simply a mildly interesting footnote in American history.

Speaking of incoherent ramblings.....


Liars and hypocrites!

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Or more so, how did it happen.

1. The NSA is spying on people with out warrant in violation of the COTUS.

2. We are assassinating people with out due process using predator drones some of them US citizens.

3. Changing law though executive fiat.

Now, it doesn't matter when or who started this but this is where we are at, how did we let this happen?

You forgot to cite the Supreme Court cases ruling any of the above "unconstitutional."

And item 3 is meaningless absent a specific example and case citation.

It's also telling how you and others on the right perceive this as an "issue" when a Democrat is in the WH, where Republican presidents have done the same and more, with conservatives remaining silent.

Consequently, the premise of your thread is disingenuous, and not a sincere expression of concern, but instead just another example of the conservative misery offensive.

 

[bedowin62]

Or more so, how did it happen.

1. The NSA is spying on people with out warrant in violation of the COTUS.

2. We are assassinating people with out due process using predator drones some of them US citizens.

3. Changing law though executive fiat.

Now, it doesn't matter when or who started this but this is where we are at, how did we let this happen?

You forgot to cite the Supreme Court cases ruling any of the above "unconstitutional."

And item 3 is meaningless absent a specific example and case citation.

It's also telling how you and others on the right perceive this as an "issue" when a Democrat is in the WH, where Republican presidents have done the same and more, with conservatives remaining silent.

Consequently, the premise of your thread is disingenuous, and not a sincere expression of concern, but instead just another example of the conservative misery offensive.

but Republicans havent "done the same; and more" leftard. obama has tripled the number of drone strikes; and when did Bush drone American citizens without so much as even a show trial in absentia?

 

[ClosedCaption]

I could point to article, blog and thread in long lists where libertarians voiced their outrage, but it doesn't matter to you.

Sure you could sparky! You could link to MILLIONS of them! MILLIONS!....of blogs and threads...Wait, your opposition was done from your mothers basement behind a keyboard Blogs and Threads

You do not even know what libertarian means. We're insignificant, have no numbers, but she be more vocal against what you dislike, not out of principle, but out of partisanship. Again, you have no credit on libertarians. And you all raved and ranted when Bush was doing what Obama is now. The difference is you've shut up and accepted it because you elected the ****** doing it now. That's why you're just another modern day liberal hypocrite.

Try talking about yourself for a change. Like I said I tell you I dont support Obama and you say that I do because if you had to debate what I say out of my mouth you wouldnt have your bail of hay to kick around no more.

You typed 2 sentences about proof of being against Spying, War etc then type a paragraph fighting your strawmen. Good work champ!

Keep on voicing your oppostition in blogs and Message Board threads...Dont want you to have to wash your face and put on clothes and stuff

Typical dishonest, modern day liberal hypocrite. Did I say millions? Of course not. but go ahead and insert it. Reason Mag ran article after article about it. Mises, though an economics school, voiced their disdain for the programs and elaborated on the economics of it. If one had enough brain power, they can find plenty of content from the jump that libertarians weren't on the republican progressive big government cheerleading squad.

The biggest "tell" that you dont have links is that you keep saying you can get links and you keep saying you have a bunch but you keep neglecting to link to anything.

Where is the voice of liberal outrage over Obama's use of the tools Bush left him? What about the lying? You guys have no credibility. You fall silent, you defend it and then sheepishly say "i do not support that" while you sit there silently and then accuse libertarians of not being vocal enough.
You have no outrage over it now. let me guess, you exhausted yourself being so vocal when Bush did it you lost your collective voices after Obama became the same.



Liars and hypocrites.

There you go again. When you're asked for proof you instead opt for "amazement" that liberals dont do some shit.

Asked for proof = 2 sentences

Strawman assumptions on what I "believe" = paragraph

If you didnt have strawmen you'd only be left with your 2 sentences about blogs and threads

 

[JakeStarkey]

I could point to article, blog and thread in long lists where libertarians voiced their outrage, but it doesn't matter to you. You do not even know what libertarian means. We're insignificant, have no numbers, but she be more vocal against what you dislike, not out of principle, but out of partisanship. Again, you have no credit on libertarians. And you all raved and ranted when Bush was doing what Obama is now. The difference is you've shut up and accepted it because you elected the ****** doing it now. That's why you're just another modern day liberal hypocrite.

You are comments are rambling and incoherent, TASB.

Pubs, Dems, and everyone else, for the greater part, of accepted what these administrations have done.

That is going to erase the Republic in to which I was born.

It also means that "libertarians", whatever that means because they can't agree on what it means, are simply a mildly interesting footnote in American history.

Speaking of incoherent ramblings.....Liars and hypocrites!

Incoherent and rambling, like I said.