Honest question: Is supporting Communism over America “treason”?

[Quantum Windbag]

You equate trade with moving millions of jobs to China?

Yes, and so would you if you knew anything about economics. If we did not trade with them we could not buy anything made there, could we? That would make shipping jobs there a waste of money for anyone wanting to sell anything here in the US.

Hmm, let's see. China pays our politicians. They give subsidies and tax breaks to companies to move the China paid for by the American Middle class. They only need to pay their labor force a hundred bucks a month, their profits skyrocket. They pay American politicians. OK, that covers 2001 to 2008.

That they do.

1996 United States campaign finance controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Like I said, if you do not call the Democrats on it, all you are doing is blowing smoke. The difference between you and any honest person on the planet is that everyone else realizes the Ds are just as bad as the Rs.

Then you look at Clinton. He supported building communications in China and building "distribution centers". Why "distribution centers"? To send to China, "American made goods".

Wow! Do you actually believe that tripe?

So the difference between Clinton and Bush? Clinton opened their market so we could send them American goods. This helped create tens of millions of jobs here.

You got that last part right. It is really strange how you condemn making jobs in America at the same time you whine about making jobs in China.

Bush sent them jobs. And paid them to take those jobs. Once you put something like that in place, you can't just "stop it" overnight. You need congress to help make the change.

Paid them to take those jobs? What are you talking about now? All the money we borrowed from China during the Bush years, and you think we paid them for something?

Filibuster anyone?

Now what are you babbling about?

Elect more Republicans and it will only get worse. I just don't understand what the Republican sheeple get out of it. We know it won't be jobs or money. What do you people get supporting those rotten policies? Just curious.

Let me see.

US Federal Deficit As Percent Of GDP in United States 2000-2010 - Federal State Local

Funny, it looks like the Rs were bringing the deficit down, then it went rocketing up under the Ds. Why are you complaining about more of the same under the Rs when they obviously do a better job?

 

[mudwhistle]

How does Dean have 61 rep points?

Negged For RDeaning

Truth hurts.

All I see is extreme hyperbole...not truth.

 

[editec]

ANOTHER honest question:

Is supporting FREE TRADE over American interests TREASON?

 

[José]

Here's an even better question:

"How can I betray something I've never sworn allegiance to?" (meaning the average american civilian who just happened to have dropped from a vagina in North America).

This definition of treason is seriously screwed in the head

 

[José]

I mean... during our lives we enter into a series of implicit agreements like not stealing our parents money, but allegiance to a nation is something way more complex that involves adherence to a certain political ideology and therefore requires an explicit oath of allegiance (the one people are forced to parrot in school simply doesn't count).

What if I'm an american theocrat and plan the overthrow of the secular government?

Allegiance to nations and their political ideals does require an explicit oath.

 

[JBeukema]

US Federal Deficit As Percent Of GDP in United States 2000-2010 - Federal State Local

Funny, it looks like the Rs were bringing the deficit down, then it went rocketing up under the Ds. Why are you complaining about more of the same under the Rs when they obviously do a better job?

Now add the Long War to the calculations.

 

[Sallow]

Well yeah. That chart is misleading. GDP includes government spending.

 

[JBeukema]

Well yeah. That chart is misleading. GDP includes government spending.

Question: Deficit spending on bombs increases both GDP (by making stuff) and the deficit (by going into the red to do so), right?


So wouldn't any significant degree of federal deficit spending that results in anything being made (eg: bombs for the Long War) (directly by the government or indirectly via contracted manufacturers) render Deficit as a Percentage of GDP a rather unreliable and fickle measure?

 

[rdean]

I can't believe what I'm reading.

The lowest wages in China, depending on the province is 88.75 a month BY LAW. That is $1065.00 in a year.

-----------------------------------

The government in 2009 suspended its requirement that the lowest salaries be increased at least once every two years to help companies weather the impact of the global financial crisis,

China Provinces Raise Minimum Wages to Curb Disputes - BusinessWeek

July 1 (Bloomberg) -- At least nine Chinese provinces and cities will raise minimum wages from today by as much as a third after Premier Wen Jiabao called for measures to head off growing worker unrest in the world’s third-largest economy.

Beijing is increasing the lowest monthly salary employers may pay in the Chinese capital to 960 yuan ($142) from 800 yuan, according to the city government’s website. Central China’s Henan, the nation’s most populous province with almost 100 million residents, is raising its minimum wage by 33 percent to 600 yuan, the local government said on its website.

-------------------------------------------------

What is shocking.

Republicans would defend moving Amercan jobs and businesses to a communist country.

That Republicans would try to insist that China "isn't really" communist. That's insane.

That Republicans defend salaries of 88 and 142 dollars a month.

What is there to say? You guys are awful. Truly awful You can't possibly try to pass such bullshit off as "fair trade". And yet, there you are. Doing it.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Yes, the rulers call themselves communists. and the Democrats call themselves Liberals, the Republicans call themselves fiscal conservatives, and I hear RDean calls himself a woman on Friday nights.


That doesn't make any of it true.

The system won't permit multiple pos reps for the same post.


People who are dependent on labels earn the label "fool"

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Well yeah. That chart is misleading. GDP includes government spending.

How is that misleading? When you are discussing proportions, the thing that is a proportion of has to be there as part of the proportion. You can't say that including the milk fat in discussing 2% milk is misleading.

It is the most important part of the statistic.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

I can't believe what I'm reading.

The lowest wages in China, depending on the province is 88.75 a month BY LAW. That is $1065.00 in a year.

-----------------------------------

The government in 2009 suspended its requirement that the lowest salaries be increased at least once every two years to help companies weather the impact of the global financial crisis,

China Provinces Raise Minimum Wages to Curb Disputes - BusinessWeek

July 1 (Bloomberg) -- At least nine Chinese provinces and cities will raise minimum wages from today by as much as a third after Premier Wen Jiabao called for measures to head off growing worker unrest in the world’s third-largest economy.

Beijing is increasing the lowest monthly salary employers may pay in the Chinese capital to 960 yuan ($142) from 800 yuan, according to the city government’s website. Central China’s Henan, the nation’s most populous province with almost 100 million residents, is raising its minimum wage by 33 percent to 600 yuan, the local government said on its website.

-------------------------------------------------

What is shocking.

Republicans would defend moving Amercan jobs and businesses to a communist country.

That Republicans would try to insist that China "isn't really" communist. That's insane.

That Republicans defend salaries of 88 and 142 dollars a month.

What is there to say? You guys are awful. Truly awful You can't possibly try to pass such bullshit off as "fair trade". And yet, there you are. Doing it.

China was, because of the way the place was run prior to 1978, badly managed and in dire poverty.

It takes a while for impoverished places to come back up the the world standards when the place has been mismanaged on the scale china has for the last thousand years or so.

If Coolie wages bother you, you should be buying more Chinese stuff, rather than less, so as to raise wages there.

Participation in world markets is the best way to improve conditions in afflicted areas.

Your current argument is that since China is being less stupid, they should be punished and prevented from enjoying the fruits of their more intelligent behavior by keeping them in the dire conditions caused by the ancient stupid.

 

[rdean]

I can't believe what I'm reading.

The lowest wages in China, depending on the province is 88.75 a month BY LAW. That is $1065.00 in a year.

-----------------------------------

The government in 2009 suspended its requirement that the lowest salaries be increased at least once every two years to help companies weather the impact of the global financial crisis,

China Provinces Raise Minimum Wages to Curb Disputes - BusinessWeek

July 1 (Bloomberg) -- At least nine Chinese provinces and cities will raise minimum wages from today by as much as a third after Premier Wen Jiabao called for measures to head off growing worker unrest in the world’s third-largest economy.

Beijing is increasing the lowest monthly salary employers may pay in the Chinese capital to 960 yuan ($142) from 800 yuan, according to the city government’s website. Central China’s Henan, the nation’s most populous province with almost 100 million residents, is raising its minimum wage by 33 percent to 600 yuan, the local government said on its website.

-------------------------------------------------

What is shocking.

Republicans would defend moving Amercan jobs and businesses to a communist country.

That Republicans would try to insist that China "isn't really" communist. That's insane.

That Republicans defend salaries of 88 and 142 dollars a month.

What is there to say? You guys are awful. Truly awful You can't possibly try to pass such bullshit off as "fair trade". And yet, there you are. Doing it.

China was, because of the way the place was run prior to 1978, badly managed and in dire poverty.

It takes a while for impoverished places to come back up the the world standards when the place has been mismanaged on the scale china has for the last thousand years or so.

If Coolie wages bother you, you should be buying more Chinese stuff, rather than less, so as to raise wages there.

Participation in world markets is the best way to improve conditions in afflicted areas.

Your current argument is that since China is being less stupid, they should be punished and prevented from enjoying the fruits of their more intelligent behavior by keeping them in the dire conditions caused by the ancient stupid.

Are you saying you support communist China over the interests of the US?

 

[Baruch Menachem]

What are US interests in any part of the world from Pt Barrow to Tierra Del Fuego, from Novaya Zemla to Cape town?

US interests are peaceful interactions with all people of the world, trade free of coercion, free governments with a population living under a constitutional government. This really hasn't changed since 1783.

Labels don't matter, reality does.

An American is allowed to buy from whom he wants at a price mutually agreeable and without coercion.

You keep making the same false separation, as JB pointed out. The Chinese government is a bunch of greedy jackasses. But they are a better set of greedy jackasses than the previous bunch of bloodthirsty insane jackasses they took over from, who were better than the previous bunch, but not by much, who were a lot better than the bunch before them.

US interests in China are a free society and a wealthy population. Wealth is created by trade. (both sides get better off if both gain by the deal. Trade is not zero sum.)

The question is, what is better for the US, a huge country full of really pissed off people who are kept in deliberate poverty because of stupidity and paranoia on our side, or friendly relations with folks whose belief system is totally insane, but on a commercial basis, we can get along ok.

I mean, are you insisting that because I am protestent, I should be mad at the catholic next door and not deal with him? They guy is three times divorced and hasn't been to church in 20 years, but I am still, according to your formulation, obliged to be mad at him?

Your politics are stupid, bigoted and insane. And can only cause harm.

 

[rdean]

What are US interests in any part of the world from Pt Barrow to Tierra Del Fuego, from Novaya Zemla to Cape town?

US interests are peaceful interactions with all people of the world, trade free of coercion, free governments with a population living under a constitutional government. This really hasn't changed since 1783.

Labels don't matter, reality does.

An American is allowed to buy from whom he wants at a price mutually agreeable and without coercion.

You keep making the same false separation, as JB pointed out. The Chinese government is a bunch of greedy jackasses. But they are a better set of greedy jackasses than the previous bunch of bloodthirsty insane jackasses they took over from, who were better than the previous bunch, but not by much, who were a lot better than the bunch before them.

US interests in China are a free society and a wealthy population. Wealth is created by trade. (both sides get better off if both gain by the deal. Trade is not zero sum.)

The question is, what is better for the US, a huge country full of really pissed off people who are kept in deliberate poverty because of stupidity and paranoia on our side, or friendly relations with folks whose belief system is totally insane, but on a commercial basis, we can get along ok.????????????????????????

I mean, are you insisting that because I am protestent, I should be mad at the catholic next door and not deal with him? They guy is three times divorced and hasn't been to church in 20 years, but I am still, according to your formulation, obliged to be mad at him?

Your politics are stupid, bigoted and insane. And can only cause harm.

China lives under a constitutional government. You do realize their constitution is slightly different than ours? Right?

US interests in China are a free society

And the US has demonstrated this "how"?

You compare us and China to Protestants and catholics?

Your politics are stupid, bigoted and insane. And can only cause harm
And you are defending Republican policies that sent millions of jobs to China and ruined our economy? And I'm "insane"?

I don't know what to say. If I said you were stupid or crazy, you would just feel insulted. And the fact that you spent so much time writing out such nonsense proves that really believe in what you are saying. Perhaps if you printed out some of your posts and showed them to your parents, they could explain a few things. You can't possibly be an adult.

 

[rdean]

What is the difference between a computer chip used in an X-box and one used in a "cruise missile"?

Yes Deany, all computer chips are the same.

Go take your X-box and fire it towards Pashtun.

OH MY GOD! YOU DON'T KNOW! THAT'S HILARIOUS!

VIDEO games have become increasingly realistic, especially those involving armed combat. America’s armed forces have even used video games as recruitment and training tools. But the desire to play games is not the reason why the United States Air Force recently issued a procurement request for 2,200 Sony PlayStation 3 (PS3) video-game consoles. It intends to link them up to build a supercomputer that will run Linux, a free, open-source operating system. It will be used for research, including the development of high-definition imaging systems for radar, and will cost around one-tenth as much as a conventional supercomputer. The air force has already built a smaller computer from a cluster of 336 PS3s.

Military use of consumer technology: War games | The Economist | eyebeam.org

developing the cell chip from the PS3

Researchers Are Studying The Use Of The PlayStation 3 Cell chip To Track Tumor Growth | HighTech EDGE

I keep telling you guys to study some science, but NOOOOOO. Science is for elitists.

Do you know how stupid you guys just make yourselves look? Hmmm, I wonder if I could make this an entire thread. What a hoot!

This is why these guys should study science. Seriously. They laugh and point and when confronted with evidence they are wrong, either make personal attacks or run away.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

US Federal Deficit As Percent Of GDP in United States 2000-2010 - Federal State Local

Funny, it looks like the Rs were bringing the deficit down, then it went rocketing up under the Ds. Why are you complaining about more of the same under the Rs when they obviously do a better job?

Now add the Long War to the calculations.

Prove that it is not in there.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I can't believe what I'm reading.

The lowest wages in China, depending on the province is 88.75 a month BY LAW. That is $1065.00 in a year.

-----------------------------------

The government in 2009 suspended its requirement that the lowest salaries be increased at least once every two years to help companies weather the impact of the global financial crisis,

China Provinces Raise Minimum Wages to Curb Disputes - BusinessWeek

July 1 (Bloomberg) -- At least nine Chinese provinces and cities will raise minimum wages from today by as much as a third after Premier Wen Jiabao called for measures to head off growing worker unrest in the world’s third-largest economy.

Beijing is increasing the lowest monthly salary employers may pay in the Chinese capital to 960 yuan ($142) from 800 yuan, according to the city government’s website. Central China’s Henan, the nation’s most populous province with almost 100 million residents, is raising its minimum wage by 33 percent to 600 yuan, the local government said on its website.

-------------------------------------------------

What is shocking.

Republicans would defend moving Amercan jobs and businesses to a communist country.

That Republicans would try to insist that China "isn't really" communist. That's insane.

That Republicans defend salaries of 88 and 142 dollars a month.

What is there to say? You guys are awful. Truly awful You can't possibly try to pass such bullshit off as "fair trade". And yet, there you are. Doing it.

Politicians defend it rdean, that includes Democrats.

 

[rdean]

I can't believe what I'm reading.

The lowest wages in China, depending on the province is 88.75 a month BY LAW. That is $1065.00 in a year.

-----------------------------------

The government in 2009 suspended its requirement that the lowest salaries be increased at least once every two years to help companies weather the impact of the global financial crisis,

China Provinces Raise Minimum Wages to Curb Disputes - BusinessWeek

July 1 (Bloomberg) -- At least nine Chinese provinces and cities will raise minimum wages from today by as much as a third after Premier Wen Jiabao called for measures to head off growing worker unrest in the world’s third-largest economy.

Beijing is increasing the lowest monthly salary employers may pay in the Chinese capital to 960 yuan ($142) from 800 yuan, according to the city government’s website. Central China’s Henan, the nation’s most populous province with almost 100 million residents, is raising its minimum wage by 33 percent to 600 yuan, the local government said on its website.

-------------------------------------------------

What is shocking.

Republicans would defend moving Amercan jobs and businesses to a communist country.

That Republicans would try to insist that China "isn't really" communist. That's insane.

That Republicans defend salaries of 88 and 142 dollars a month.

What is there to say? You guys are awful. Truly awful You can't possibly try to pass such bullshit off as "fair trade". And yet, there you are. Doing it.

Politicians defend it rdean, that includes Democrats.

Yea, like one or two.

Do right wingers on this site defend it? 88 dollars a month?

 

[geauxtohell]

Definition of Treason:
n.
1. Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies.

Legal definition:
From the 'Lectric Law Library's Lexicon
Treason

TREASON
This word imports a betraying, treachery, or breach of allegiance.
The Constitution of the United States, Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort. This offence is punished with death. By the same article of the Constitution, no person shall be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

Legal Definition of Treason

Say you send millions of American Jobs to China, building up that communist country, as well as inventions and new technologies and that leads to a collapse here, would that be considered “treason”? If not, why not?

What about if you closed important industries, say, the only rare earths mine in the country? One that our military depends on, thereby possibly crippling our military. Would that be considered “treason”?

What if you asked foreign countries to send money here for political campaigns to keep jobs from returning to this country? Would that be considered “treason”?

At what point does bringing harm to this country turn from spite or greed, to “treason”?

No. There is absolutely nothing in the constitution that designates a certain political party or economic model.

"Socialism" is a bad word in this country, but only because it goes against our traditions and not our laws.