CDZ Homeless Problem Part II

[jwoodie]

Most of us agree that homelessness is, in large part, due to substance abuse and mental illness. One problem we face in addressing these issues is that these people can't be forced to participate in treatment programs unless they are an immediate danger to themselves or others.

Like it or not, the only way around this problem is to utilize the criminal justice system as a means for requiring participation in these programs, with the threat of incarceration for noncompliance.

If anyone has an alternative solution to this problem (which hasn't already been tried) please share it.

You provide them unconditional shelter regardless of how their issues manifest themselves so they have a place to go whether they are using/snapping or not. You have to inject stability in their lives before you can even begin to think about the other issues. Very few places will do that though because of the nature of our liability laws.

Perhaps unwittingly, you are essentially agreeing with me. We do need to provide them with permanent housing and treatment programs if they will voluntarily use them. The problem is that many (most?) of them will not.

Then what do we do? Ignore reality and let this problem keep growing? Under our legal system, we can't force people to act unless they are an imminent danger to themselves or others OR they fall within the criminal justice system.

That is why we have to criminalize and enforce vagrancy and public nuisance violations. If people refuse to accept or provide permanent housing for themselves, they should not be allowed to illegally camp in public places or make them unusable by others.

Arrest and the threat of incarceration are the only practical means of addressing this problem. If these people refuse to comply with (available) housing regulations on a voluntary basis, they should not be allowed to flaunt these laws to the detriment of themselves and society in general.

That does not mean throwing them in jail. What it does mean is that they will be provided with secure housing and required to participate in appropriate treatment programs as a condition of their emancipation.

 

[Dekster]

Most of us agree that homelessness is, in large part, due to substance abuse and mental illness. One problem we face in addressing these issues is that these people can't be forced to participate in treatment programs unless they are an immediate danger to themselves or others.

Like it or not, the only way around this problem is to utilize the criminal justice system as a means for requiring participation in these programs, with the threat of incarceration for noncompliance.

If anyone has an alternative solution to this problem (which hasn't already been tried) please share it.

You provide them unconditional shelter regardless of how their issues manifest themselves so they have a place to go whether they are using/snapping or not. You have to inject stability in their lives before you can even begin to think about the other issues. Very few places will do that though because of the nature of our liability laws.

Perhaps unwittingly, you are essentially agreeing with me. We do need to provide them with permanent housing and treatment programs if they will voluntarily use them. The problem is that many (most?) of them will not.

Then what do we do? Ignore reality and let this problem keep growing? Under our legal system, we can't force people to act unless they are an imminent danger to themselves or others OR they fall within the criminal justice system.

That is why we have to criminalize and enforce vagrancy and public nuisance violations. If people refuse to accept or provide permanent housing for themselves, they should not be allowed to illegally camp in public places or make them unusable by others.

Arrest and the threat of incarceration are the only practical means of addressing this problem. If these people refuse to comply with (available) housing regulations on a voluntary basis, they should not be allowed to flaunt these laws to the detriment of themselves and society in general.

That does not mean throwing them in jail. What it does mean is that they will be provided with secure housing and required to participate in appropriate treatment programs as a condition of their emancipation.

we don't know if they will use them as we have never really had no judgment shelters.

 

[jwoodie]

we don't know if they will use them as we have never really had no judgment shelters.

We DO know that many people eschew available shelters except in severe weather conditions.

P.S. What is a judgment shelter?

 

[Dekster]

we don't know if they will use them as we have never really had no judgment shelters.

We DO know that many people eschew available shelters except in severe weather conditions.

P.S. What is a judgment shelter?

Many people avoid shelters that have rules attached like don't come in here drunk and or high, yes.

 

[jwoodie]

Many people avoid shelters that have rules attached like don't come in here drunk and or high, yes.

So what, exactly, do you propose?

 

[Dekster]

Many people avoid shelters that have rules attached like don't come in here drunk and or high, yes.

So what, exactly, do you propose?

Giving them their own apartment with no bills so they have their place to go to no matter what is raining down in their life

 

[jwoodie]

Giving them their own apartment with no bills so they have their place to go to no matter what is raining down in their life

So when the weather is good they can still camp on public property and shit on the sidewalk? Meanwhile, their apartments stand empty...

P.S. Would you also provide room service so that their apartments don't turn into roach infested shit holes?

 

[badger2]

Homeless Part II Drug Report

14 Aug 2019 Canada, 30 oz. Fentanyl
https://www.quintnews.com/2019/08/14/213904

14 Aug 2019 Rhode Island 2 Kilos Fentanyl
https//turnto10.com/news/local/providence-police-makes-million-dollar-drug-bust

 

[danielpalos]

Many people avoid shelters that have rules attached like don't come in here drunk and or high, yes.

So what, exactly, do you propose?

Equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation in our at-will employment States.

 

[badger2]

17 Aug 2019 Reno: Hantavirus
Hantavirus case reported in south Reno

 

[badger2]

Supossedly, California's Proposition 47 is the cause of homelessness. The article can be retrieved by typing the URL in the spacebar. Note the deceptive lower case "l" (lower case L) in the URL:

26 Aug 2019 Indiana Attorney General Exposes the Real Reason Behind California's Homeless Crisis
msn.com/en-us/news/us/indiana-attorney-general-exposes-the-real-reason-behind-californias-homeless-crisis/vi-AAGlLFD

 

[danielpalos]

Supossedly, California's Proposition 47 is the cause of homelessness. The article can be retrieved by typing the URL in the spacebar. Note the deceptive lower case "l" (lower case L) in the URL:

26 Aug 2019 Indiana Attorney General Exposes the Real Reason Behind California's Homeless Crisis
msn.com/en-us/news/us/indiana-attorney-general-exposes-the-real-reason-behind-californias-homeless-crisis/vi-AAGlLFD

a lack of equality is the problem. drugs can only "ameliorate the condition."

 

[badger2]

4 Sept 2019 Federal Government Trying To Outlaw Tiny Homes and RV Living
(URL should function if typed in the spacebar)
www.offgridsurvival.com/federalgovernment-outlaw-tiny-homes
'....The proposed regulations, entitled "FR-5877-P-01 Manufactured Home Procedural and Enforcement Regulations; Revision of Exemption for Recreational Vehicles," will redefine the industry, and force HUD regulations on those that live the lifestyle.'

 

[danielpalos]

We could have fewer homeless with equal protection of the law for unemployment compensation in our at-will employment States.

I can't imagine anyone who doesn't actually like living outdoors, staying outdoors if they had recourse to an income for simply being unemployed.

 

[badger2]

Many would opt for semi-out-of-doors housing though this comes under codes and zoning laws. These types may not meet the standards of many states:

Eugene Tiny Home Village

 

[danielpalos]

...i would rather let moden women "break me in for modern times" and share housing expenses, than Have to live outdoors all the time.

 

[badger2]

One goal would be self-sufficiency of the villagers rather than rely on donations (a polite-sounding variant of panhandling), which could likely involve the vetting of potential residents. The problem is lack of affordable housing, and in this Eugene case, the wait list may be up to 6 years long, suggesting that the real estate racket in America is a disease:

 

[badger2]

One goal would be to not have to share expenses so as to give the violence of capitalism the firm slap in the face it deserves. Are the costs of these units above suspicion?

 

[badger2]

Sadly in the the video in post #137, the reader can hear her say "a place to rent," at timepoint 8:00. Therefore, another goal comes into view: ownership. There are many who would place a high value on that goal, especially since buying includes the option of the transfer of equity when selling. At death, this equity would be part of the owner's estate, not part of the landlord's estate.

 

[badger2]

URL will function if typed into the spacebar. This is an interesting report to critique.
9 hours ago
20 Reasons You Don't Want To Live In A Tiny Home
msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/20-reasons-you-dont-want-to-live-in-a-tiny-house/ss-AAH1K5f?Ii=BBnbfcN