Historic High for WAGE earners

[Helios]

Wage levels increase as skill levels increase..

The same skill was required 10 years ago to flip a burger as is required today. How much, exactly, should a person be paid for a job that requires no thought process, no skill, no ambition, and that basically a robot can do?

Those at a higher level income must consistently reeducate themselves, stay with current technology, and be constantly thinking and learning.. More work = more pay.

Who are you to determine how much a factory worker gets paid vs. a computer analyst? I'm not advocating communism, but in a fair system of capitalism would give equal opportunity to each of them, and give each of them the means to secure health care, education and dare I say a house? Look at foreclosures in your state. The people are not able to take care of their own families due to government failure. Exploiting the working class = more pay.

 

[Shattered]

Who are you to determine how much a factory worker gets paid vs. a computer analyst? I'm not advocating communism, but in a fair system of capitalism would give equal opportunity to each of them, and give each of them the means to secure health care, education and dare I say a house? Look at foreclosures in your state. The people are not able to take care of their own families due to government failure. Exploiting the working class = more pay.

Hate to break it to you, but each and every one of us is born the same - naked and screaming. It's what we do after that that counts. If you're content to barely get buy with minimal effort in life, that's your problem. I'm not.

Foreclosures? Those are due to people spending more than they can afford, and not living within their means. If their means indicate they live in an apartment until they can save a reasonable amount of money before purshasing a house, then that's what they should do.

Fact is, people are too damned greedy and want everything for nothing, and when they start losing it, they expect everyone else to pick up the slack for their own mistakes.

I didn't buy a house until I was 35. Why? Because I didn't think I could afford it, no matter HOW good the numbers looked on paper.

 

[nibor]

The difference between our viewpoints being that I believe real income has actually declined, while you just believe it hasn't increased as much as the graph shows.

Well let's see fuel prices were more than 10 TIMES CHEAPER THAN TODAY IN REAL TERMS AT .25 CENTS PER GALLON TO DRIVE, HAUL, HEAT YOUR HOME AND RUN INDUSTRY, gee adjusted................I'd say divid by 10 and then tell us what has increased??????????

 

[rayboyusmc]

It's what we do after that that counts.

True for the person who busts his/her butt to start the fortune. Not necessarily true for those who inherit.

Today, the rich can get richer not necessarily through any work ethic of their own but because they own the people who make the laws that favor them.

More corporate tax breaks for breakfast please.

 

[Shattered]

True for the person who busts his/her butt to start the fortune. Not necessarily true for those who inherit.

Today, the rich can get richer not necessarily through any work ethic of their own but because they own the people who make the laws that favor them.

More corporate tax breaks for breakfast please.

Aw, quit yer whining.. If you were one of those people to which you refer, you sure as hell wouldn't be complaining..

 

[eots]

Aw, quit yer whining.. If you were one of those people to which you refer, you sure as hell wouldn't be complaining..

WHAT A STUPID RESPONSE...believe it or not everyone is not like you and some have concerns beyond only themselves

 

[Shattered]

WHAT A STUPID RESPONSE...believe it or not everyone is not like you and some have concerns beyond only themselves

It's not a stupid response. I'm one of those people that busted my ass for every single thing I have, and I STILL don't begrudge those who have more for less effort, so get off your high horse, and go piss up a rope, Captain Moron.

 

[Helios]

It's not a stupid response. I'm one of those people that busted my ass for every single thing I have, and I STILL don't begrudge those who have more for less effort, so get off your high horse, and go piss up a rope, Captain Moron.

I've had to work for everything I ever got in my life as well, and I don't hold any grudge against wealthy people on account of wealth. I only begrudge the men who manipulate politics through the use of their money.

 

[rayboyusmc]

Aw, quit yer whining.. If you were one of those people to which you refer, you sure as hell wouldn't be complaining..

So fukking typical response. I also worked for everything I have so I am not whining, friend, I am stating a frigging fact. And you have no idea what I would or wouldn't do. You are simply projecting your values on me or anyone who disagrees with you.

The gap between the very rich and the middle class and poor is growing more each day. 1 fucking percent of the people own 80% of the wealth. That isn't healthy or normal. How many of those whose fortunes have increased (Cheney, Blackwater, Haliburton) have got where they are not based on skills or smarts but on friends in power pulling the right strings for them. It's called corruption, crime etc.

Yes, I believe that if you bust your ass, you should get your just rewards. I don't believe that you should get all the breaks just because you have crooked friends in power.

If it doesn't bother you that our country is being hijacked, that is just fukking fine. It isn't for me.

There are some people with money who still give a shit about those who have less. You probably wouldn't understand that. Then there are those who have money and don't want anyone else not in their class to have any. They need some one to look down on to feel better about themself. There always have been. There are also those who have been their pawns throughout history.

Something about the difference between some liberals and some conservatives.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

First I'll ask all of you.....................because it's very relevant to this discussion also.......................were you even alive during the early years represented by these graphs????????


Also WHAT adjustments were made for inflation......................

I was. And I will list things the average middle income family DID and DIDNT have.

Basically you would approach a house , with ONE car in the driveway, and the homes were usually quite modest to average.
In the living room sat a black and white tv, although color was becoming quite popular in the sixties. There would be ONE PHONE, a frig, oven, stove, dining table, and usual living room furniture. Some of the higher end ones had REAL HI FI STEREO units.

THATS about it.

NO:

ATV's
Four wheel drives or SUV's, NO SECOND CAR
No big screen tv, plasma,
no remotes
No microwave
No extras on the stereo equipment, aka, DVD, VCR, CD players, altough tapedecks became popular in the seventies

No video games
No phone for each person in the house, plus an extra HOME BASED phone
Teens rarely had cars HIGH SCHOOL parking lots are always overflowing these days, when I went to high school in the 70's, usuallly about half the lot was full. and there were MORE kids enrolled then, than now in my school

OK, baby is crying, I will finish later...

 

[Helios]

I was. And I will list things the average middle income family DID and DIDNT have.

Basically you would approach a house , with ONE car in the driveway, and the homes were usually quite modest to average.
In the living room sat a black and white tv, although color was becoming quite popular in the sixties. There would be ONE PHONE, a frig, oven, stove, dining table, and usual living room furniture. Some of the higher end ones had REAL HI FI STEREO units.

THATS about it.

NO:

ATV's
Four wheel drives or SUV's, NO SECOND CAR
No big screen tv, plasma,
no remotes
No microwave
No extras on the stereo equipment, aka, DVD, VCR, CD players, altough tapedecks became popular in the seventies

No video games
No phone for each person in the house, plus an extra HOME BASED phone
Teens rarely had cars HIGH SCHOOL parking lots are always overflowing these days, when I went to high school in the 70's, usuallly about half the lot was full. and there were MORE kids enrolled then, than now in my school

OK, baby is crying, I will finish later...

If you think ATV's, big screen TV's and fancy cars improve one's quality of life, or are any measure of economic welfare, you are beyond the point of no return. They are just things man, just things.


"The shit you own, ends up owning you."
-Chuck Palahniuk

 

[nibor]

I was. And I will list things the average middle income family DID and DIDNT have.

Basically you would approach a house , with ONE car in the driveway, and the homes were usually quite modest to average.
In the living room sat a black and white tv, although color was becoming quite popular in the sixties. There would be ONE PHONE, a frig, oven, stove, dining table, and usual living room furniture. Some of the higher end ones had REAL HI FI STEREO units.

THATS about it.

NO:

ATV's
Four wheel drives or SUV's, NO SECOND CAR
No big screen tv, plasma,
no remotes
No microwave
No extras on the stereo equipment, aka, DVD, VCR, CD players, altough tapedecks became popular in the seventies

No video games
No phone for each person in the house, plus an extra HOME BASED phone
Teens rarely had cars HIGH SCHOOL parking lots are always overflowing these days, when I went to high school in the 70's, usuallly about half the lot was full. and there were MORE kids enrolled then, than now in my school

OK, baby is crying, I will finish later...

Yep that's basically correct...............mostly because alot of that other stuff wasn't invented yet.....................now let's talk about quality of life, who was actually richer compared "graphically", as per dollar of income.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

If you think ATV's, big screen TV's and fancy cars improve one's quality of life, or are any measure of economic welfare, you are beyond the point of no return. They are just things man, just things.


"The shit you own, ends up owning you."
-Chuck Palahniuk

I believe the thread is about WAGES, not quality of life, try another response that is relevant.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Yep that's basically correct...............mostly because alot of that other stuff wasn't invented yet.....................now let's talk about quality of life, who was actually richer compared "graphically", as per dollar of income.

FQuality,?? See my post above.

As per dollar of income, is irrelevant. What is relevant, as far as wages go, the ability to buy and own, and the ability to get (whether paid for or not) health care and dental care.....

Read it again, ONE CAR per family. They didnt fail to own those things because they werent invented yet, they failed to own things because they were stretched to their economic limit, otherwise they all would have owned a bigger better more expensive : CAR, STEREO, HOUSE, etc. Those things were invented then, right"

Fact is, today we can produce them so much cheaper, anyone can own one. Under PRESIDENT Bush, we have continued to improve economically at all levels of income.

 

[Bern80]

You can talk all you like about the gap between the haves and the have nots. To know whether it's a problem you have to answer the question, why.

Those who complain about this gap between the haves and the have nots, why are the have nots the have nots? Are you and all the have nots you know doing everything they can to get rich? Didn't think so. They are like 99% of the people you and I see every day going about their daily routines at their 9-5 jobs. And you want to convince me that their not rich because the man is keeping them down? And don't give me this rich were born with a silver spoon crap. Roughly 80% of millionaires are first generation millionaires.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating for some of the new folks; We are an instant gratification society. Meaning given the choice between doing something hard or something easy, almost all of us are gonna pick easy. Unfortunately getting rich isn't easy. I think you can see the real problem.

 

[jillian]

You can talk all you like about the gap between the haves and the have nots. To know whether it's a problem you have to answer the question, why.

Those who complain about this gap between the haves and the have nots, why are the have nots the have nots? Are you and all the have nots you know doing everything they can to get rich? Didn't think so. They are like 99% of the people you and I see every day going about their daily routines at their 9-5 jobs. And you want to convince me that their not rich because the man is keeping them down? And don't give me this rich were born with a silver spoon crap. Roughly 80% of millionaires are first generation millionaires.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating for some of the new folks; We are an instant gratification society. Meaning given the choice between doing something hard or something easy, almost all of us are gonna pick easy. Unfortunately getting rich isn't easy. I think you can see the real problem.

Right... everyone has the same opportunities?

And it isn't only the have-nots who are concerned about the widening gap between rich and poor. A lot of haves understand what happens to society when there's no middle class. Democracy only exists where there's a vital middle class. There's also a little something called empathy and understanding... a knowledge that no everyone can "make it".

Our economy is a service economy. And even those jobs have been shipped overseas with impunity. No one supports a family properly on a Wal-Mart salary.

Now let's hear about how stupid they are if they can't get beyond Wal-Mart when all the mom and pop businesses closed when Wal-Mart came to town.

 

[Bern80]

Right... everyone has the same opportunities?

And it isn't only the have-nots who are concerned about the widening gap between rich and poor. A lot of haves understand what happens to society when there's no middle class. Democracy only exists where there's a vital middle class. There's also a little something called empathy and understanding... a knowledge that no everyone can "make it".

Our economy is a service economy. And even those jobs have been shipped overseas with impunity. No one supports a family properly on a Wal-Mart salary.

Now let's hear about how stupid they are if they can't get beyond Wal-Mart when all the mom and pop businesses closed when Wal-Mart came to town.

You didn't answer the question. Why REALLY are the have nots, the have nots?

 

[Shogun]

um, because wealth and opportunity are finite and trickle down economies work about as well at creating wealth as someone pissing on your head?

I'm pretty sure that it's not true that every middle to lower class citizen is a crack junky on welfare blowing disposable income on cable tv and smokes. Sorry, most of us just don't have the same types of opportunity that donald trump jr benefits from. Reducing the value of labor with outsourcing and mexicans won't make that any less true.

 

[jillian]

You didn't answer the question. Why REALLY are the have nots, the have nots?

I did answer.

But see Shogun's response above ^^^^^^

He said it much better than I could have.

 

[Bern80]

um, because wealth and opportunity are finite and trickle down economies work about as well at creating wealth as someone pissing on your head?

I'm pretty sure that it's not true that every middle to lower class citizen is a crack junky on welfare blowing disposable income on cable tv and smokes. Sorry, most of us just don't have the same types of opportunity that donald trump jr benefits from. Reducing the value of labor with outsourcing and mexicans won't make that any less true.

To Jillian as well as she is using your response:

You are assuming things of the rich that simply aren't true. The vast majority of the rich were not born to Donald Trumps. 80% of millionaires made themselves millionaires.

If your answer is the vast majority of people don't have the opportunity to be rich then yes I guess you did answer. Unfortunately it's the wrong answer. Think about the people you know in your life. Your family, friends and co-workers, person in the cubicle next to you. Why are they not rich? What nefarious force is there keeping them (or you for that matter) from getting rich?

In your make beleive world(s) by what method should the poor make themselves rich?