Here is what the progressive economic ideology boils down to:

[Billy000]

No one working 40 hours a week should be living in poverty. Any economic policy should be focused on alleviating this.

None of this has anything to do with the goal of people just living on the government tit or being paid the same wage regardless of work. It’s about making a capitalistic economy more egalitarian. This is done by limiting - not ELIMINATING - the extremes of poverty and wealth. Republicans can’t seem to grasp the basic, obvious nuance between this and communism for some bizarre reason.

Here are some examples of solutions:

1) Investing in education
2) Investing in infrastructure
3) Raising the minimum wage
4) Socialized healthcare
5) Socialized childcare

And no, I don’t expect Biden to accomplish the objectives above.

https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/articles/2020-07-08/biden-sanders-release-progressive-unity-platform-for-democratic-party?context=amp

 

[Mac-7]

No one working 40 hours a week should be living in poverty. Any economic policy should be focused on alleviating this.

None of this has anything to do with the goal of people just living on the government tit or being paid the same wage regardless of work. It’s about making a capitalistic economy more egalitarian. This is done by limiting - not ELIMINATING - the extremes of poverty and wealth. Republicans can’t seem to grasp the basic, obvious nuance between this and communism for some bizarre reason.

Here are some examples of solutions:

1) Investing in education
2) Investing in infrastructure
3) Raising the minimum wage
4) Socialized healthcare
5) Socialized childcare

https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/articles/2020-07-08/biden-sanders-release-progressive-unity-platform-for-democratic-party?context=amp

Something for nothing, huh?

the liberal dream that never grows old

free tuition for students who would rather get high than study?

then after they leave college pay them $15 an hour to be a soda jerk at Starbucks?

how can a single mom with 3 children by 3 different men stay above the poverty level at such a low wage?

oh yeah, they get free babysitters till the kids are old enough to smoke dope and have kids of their own.

that sounds like a plan to me

 

[Andylusion]

No one working 40 hours a week should be living in poverty. Any economic policy should be focused on alleviating this.

None of this has anything to do with the goal of people just living on the government tit or being paid the same wage regardless of work. It’s about making a capitalistic economy more egalitarian. This is done by limiting - not ELIMINATING - the extremes of poverty and wealth. Republicans can’t seem to grasp the basic, obvious nuance between this and communism for some bizarre reason.

Here are some examples of solutions:

1) Investing in education
2) Investing in infrastructure
3) Raising the minimum wage
4) Socialized healthcare
5) Socialized childcare

1. So we already spend more money on education, than any other country on the face of the Earth.
Literally there is no country anywhere, that spends as much as we do on education.

Yet our schools pump out dumb as brick students. Apparently spending more money on education has not fixed this. So, not a solution. Simply isn't a solution.

Typical left-wing empty headed "throw money at it" ideology, that bankrupts countries. Not a win.

2. Infrastructure is only useful when it creates value. Greece famously poured billions into infrastructure, and it resulted in bankrupting the country.

Building a bridge that goes nowhere, does not create value for the economy. Again, this is just mindless "Throw money at it" problem solving.

3. Raising the minimum wage, has never caused economic growth in the history of the world.

Moreover, in the past everyone understood that a minimum wage destroys jobs. That is in fact why the first minimum wage laws were created, to destroy the jobs of Chinese, that were taking "white jobs" by being willing to work for less money. By creating the minimum wage, they prevented Chinese from getting white jobs.

And the same is true today. There is not a single city in the United States today, that has jacked up the minimum wage, and has not found that it reduced employment. Not one.

4. Right now, we already have Medicaid, and Medicare, and VA Hospitals, and government funded clinics.

Today, our government has over $200 Trillion in unfunded liabilities that we can't pay for, and you want to socialize the rest of health care? With what? Bankrupting the entire country?

5. Socialized Childcare? Why yes of course. We have trillions in debt, have unfunded liabilities that are in the hundreds of Trillions, why not give out more free stuff?

 

[Billy000]

No one working 40 hours a week should be living in poverty. Any economic policy should be focused on alleviating this.

None of this has anything to do with the goal of people just living on the government tit or being paid the same wage regardless of work. It’s about making a capitalistic economy more egalitarian. This is done by limiting - not ELIMINATING - the extremes of poverty and wealth. Republicans can’t seem to grasp the basic, obvious nuance between this and communism for some bizarre reason.

Here are some examples of solutions:

1) Investing in education
2) Investing in infrastructure
3) Raising the minimum wage
4) Socialized healthcare
5) Socialized childcare

https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/articles/2020-07-08/biden-sanders-release-progressive-unity-platform-for-democratic-party?context=amp

Something for nothing, huh?

the liberal dream that never grows old

free tuition for students who would rather get high than study?

then after they leave college pay them $15 an hour to be a soda jerk at Starbucks?

how can a single mom with 3 children by 3 different men stay above the poverty level at such a low wage?

oh yeah, they get free babysitters till the kids are old enough to smoke dope and have kids of their own.

that sounds like a plan to me

The usual emotional stereotype bullshit. Trust me I noticed you left our facts.

 

[Mac-7]

The usual emotional stereotype bullshit. Trust me I noticed you left our facts.

The facts are that government should not exist to wipe the noses of losers who make bad personal decisions in their lives

 

[Billy000]

No one working 40 hours a week should be living in poverty. Any economic policy should be focused on alleviating this.

None of this has anything to do with the goal of people just living on the government tit or being paid the same wage regardless of work. It’s about making a capitalistic economy more egalitarian. This is done by limiting - not ELIMINATING - the extremes of poverty and wealth. Republicans can’t seem to grasp the basic, obvious nuance between this and communism for some bizarre reason.

Here are some examples of solutions:

1) Investing in education
2) Investing in infrastructure
3) Raising the minimum wage
4) Socialized healthcare
5) Socialized childcare

1. So we already spend more money on education, than any other country on the face of the Earth.
Literally there is no country anywhere, that spends as much as we do on education.

Yet our schools pump out dumb as brick students. Apparently spending more money on education has not fixed this. So, not a solution. Simply isn't a solution.

Typical left-wing empty headed "throw money at it" ideology, that bankrupts countries. Not a win.

2. Infrastructure is only useful when it creates value. Greece famously poured billions into infrastructure, and it resulted in bankrupting the country.

Building a bridge that goes nowhere, does not create value for the economy. Again, this is just mindless "Throw money at it" problem solving.

3. Raising the minimum wage, has never caused economic growth in the history of the world.

Moreover, in the past everyone understood that a minimum wage destroys jobs. That is in fact why the first minimum wage laws were created, to destroy the jobs of Chinese, that were taking "white jobs" by being willing to work for less money. By creating the minimum wage, they prevented Chinese from getting white jobs.

And the same is true today. There is not a single city in the United States today, that has jacked up the minimum wage, and has not found that it reduced employment. Not one.

4. Right now, we already have Medicaid, and Medicare, and VA Hospitals, and government funded clinics.

Today, our government has over $200 Trillion in unfunded liabilities that we can't pay for, and you want to socialize the rest of health care? With what? Bankrupting the entire country?

5. Socialized Childcare? Why yes of course. We have trillions in debt, have unfunded liabilities that are in the hundreds of Trillions, why not give out more free stuff?

1) Property taxes pay for public schools and if property value is in the toilet, so are schools. Also, other countries have free tuition for higher education and their economies do quite well. Their national poverty rates are better than ours.

2) Only if it builds value? Bridges to nowhere? What the fuck are you talking about? You’re just parroting talking points clearly. You can’t even be an adult and say “yeah I think we can all agree improving our decaying power grid would be a good idea.” You’re just a lameass partisan.

3) There might be an initial shock to raising the minimum wage, but overall the economy stabilizes because if people have bigger paychecks, they are spending more money. That helps the economy. This is a consumer based economy after all. Republicans are apparently too stupid to realize economic growth doesn’t happen if all you do is stimulate supply. There must be demand to meet that supply. Do you notice how all the states who have raised their minimum wages aren’t shitholes like the red states that don’t?

4) Uh well right now not everyone qualifies for those programs so your point is stupid. Many other people are underinsured which means they can’t afford out of pocket expenses for critical health treatment. Are you just pretending our Heathcare system is great with or without ACA?

5) Do you realize how much we spend on defense? These programs can be paid for by closing corporate tax loopholes and reducing defense spending. We waste billions on that shit.

 

[forkup]

No one working 40 hours a week should be living in poverty. Any economic policy should be focused on alleviating this.

None of this has anything to do with the goal of people just living on the government tit or being paid the same wage regardless of work. It’s about making a capitalistic economy more egalitarian. This is done by limiting - not ELIMINATING - the extremes of poverty and wealth. Republicans can’t seem to grasp the basic, obvious nuance between this and communism for some bizarre reason.

Here are some examples of solutions:

1) Investing in education
2) Investing in infrastructure
3) Raising the minimum wage
4) Socialized healthcare
5) Socialized childcare

https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/articles/2020-07-08/biden-sanders-release-progressive-unity-platform-for-democratic-party?context=amp

Something for nothing, huh?

the liberal dream that never grows old

free tuition for students who would rather get high than study?

then after they leave college pay them $15 an hour to be a soda jerk at Starbucks?

how can a single mom with 3 children by 3 different men stay above the poverty level at such a low wage?

oh yeah, they get free babysitters till the kids are old enough to smoke dope and have kids of their own.

that sounds like a plan to me

Who is claiming it is for nothing? Paying taxes to fund services is not nothing. I'm European. My wife is American. I pay a tax rate that would make you blanch. On the other hand that tax rate gives me access to services that would require an American citizen to be an actual millionaire to afford.

 

[Mac-7]

Do you realize how much we spend on defense? These programs can be paid for by closing corporate tax loopholes and reducing defense spending. We waste billions on that shit.

If you raise taxes on corporations they will raise prices to consumers and you accomplish nothing

then you will demand $20 and hour. Or $25 an hour for low skill jobs performed by incompetent people with little oncentive to work

if you cut defense spending that practically guarantees a major war with china someday or total capitulation to them andtheir agenda

I would rather have peace through a strong military that no aggressor is willing to challenge

 

[Mac-7]

Who is claiming it is for nothing? Paying taxes to fund services is not nothing. I'm European. My wife is American. I pay a tax rate that would make you blanch. On the other hand that tax rate gives me access to services that would require an American citizen to be an actual millionaire to afford.

I did not say that the Euro’s have to give up their socialist system and be like Americans

so please dont tell Americans that we should be more like you

 

[forkup]

Who is claiming it is for nothing? Paying taxes to fund services is not nothing. I'm European. My wife is American. I pay a tax rate that would make you blanch. On the other hand that tax rate gives me access to services that would require an American citizen to be an actual millionaire to afford.

I did not say that the Euro’s have to give up their socialist system and be like Americans

so please dont tell Americans that we should be more like you

I know it's uncomfortable to hear that the big socialist bogeyman is being implemented successfully throughout the world but you will have to deal.

You are making claims that are demonstrably false. And I'm more than happy to point out the flaws.

You made the choice to reply to an OP dealing with what the liberal economic policy actually is, not the caricature that is portrait by the right. I think my perspective is both useful in the discussion and relevant to the OP.

 

[Mac-7]

I know it's uncomfortable to hear that the big socialist bogeyman is being implemented successfully throughout the world but you will have to deal.

I have to do it your way because you say so?

when did the European Union pass that law?

 

[forkup]

I know it's uncomfortable to hear that the big socialist bogeyman is being implemented successfully throughout the world but you will have to deal.

I have to do it your way because you say so?

when did the European Union pass that law?

Nope I'm not claiming you have to do anything. I'm saying our way has an objectively better outcome for a large segment of the population. While making it objectively worse for a smaller segment ( the wealthy).

It's a tradeoff. Hence me objecting to your statement we are claiming something for nothing is possible.

As I said unlike you, I suspect, I have first hand experience in both societies.

 

[pknopp]

You forgot "investing in big corporations" while pretending to be someone else.

Dear Joe Biden: are you kidding me? | Erin Brockovich

 

[DBA]

No one working 40 hours a week should be living in poverty. Any economic policy should be focused on alleviating this.

None of this has anything to do with the goal of people just living on the government tit or being paid the same wage regardless of work. It’s about making a capitalistic economy more egalitarian. This is done by limiting - not ELIMINATING - the extremes of poverty and wealth. Republicans can’t seem to grasp the basic, obvious nuance between this and communism for some bizarre reason.

Here are some examples of solutions:

1) Investing in education
2) Investing in infrastructure
3) Raising the minimum wage
4) Socialized healthcare
5) Socialized childcare

https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/articles/2020-07-08/biden-sanders-release-progressive-unity-platform-for-democratic-party?context=amp

Something for nothing, huh?

the liberal dream that never grows old

free tuition for students who would rather get high than study?

then after they leave college pay them $15 an hour to be a soda jerk at Starbucks?

how can a single mom with 3 children by 3 different men stay above the poverty level at such a low wage?

oh yeah, they get free babysitters till the kids are old enough to smoke dope and have kids of their own.

that sounds like a plan to me

Who is claiming it is for nothing? Paying taxes to fund services is not nothing. I'm European. My wife is American. I pay a tax rate that would make you blanch. On the other hand that tax rate gives me access to services that would require an American citizen to be an actual millionaire to afford.

Do tell.

 

[j-mac]

No one working 40 hours a week should be living in poverty. Any economic policy should be focused on alleviating this.

None of this has anything to do with the goal of people just living on the government tit or being paid the same wage regardless of work. It’s about making a capitalistic economy more egalitarian. This is done by limiting - not ELIMINATING - the extremes of poverty and wealth. Republicans can’t seem to grasp the basic, obvious nuance between this and communism for some bizarre reason.

Here are some examples of solutions:

1) Investing in education
2) Investing in infrastructure
3) Raising the minimum wage
4) Socialized healthcare
5) Socialized childcare

https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/articles/2020-07-08/biden-sanders-release-progressive-unity-platform-for-democratic-party?context=amp

Something for nothing, huh?

the liberal dream that never grows old

free tuition for students who would rather get high than study?

then after they leave college pay them $15 an hour to be a soda jerk at Starbucks?

how can a single mom with 3 children by 3 different men stay above the poverty level at such a low wage?

oh yeah, they get free babysitters till the kids are old enough to smoke dope and have kids of their own.

that sounds like a plan to me

idiocracy.

 

[DBA]

1) Property taxes pay for public schools and if property value is in the toilet, so are schools. Also, other countries have free tuition for higher education and their economies do quite well. Their national poverty rates are better than ours.

They don’t just let anybody in either. Higher education is “rationed” to those who are making the grades to get in, otherwise, trade school it is. Are you prepared for the lack of diversity this would cause in our higher education system or would you mix in policies for racial diversity, leaving out many qualified candidates or forcing them to have to privately pay? Ironically, many of those that would be left to pay come from families who bear the brunt of funding those “free” higher education systems as their families may be “wealthy” by Socialists standards.

There might be an initial shock to raising the minimum wage, but overall the economy stabilizes because if people have bigger paychecks, they are spending more money. That helps the economy. This is a consumer based economy after all. Republicans are apparently too stupid to realize economic growth doesn’t happen if all you do is stimulate supply. There must be demand to meet that supply. Do you notice how all the states who have raised their minimum wages aren’t shitholes like the red states that don’t?

Do you all get your talking points from the same place? I have been to quite a few states in our great nation. The red states are by far the nicest overall. I live in a red state with tons of tourists. They don’t go to certain parts of the state because there are no attractions there, but I don’t live in an area where there is anything in particular that would attract tourists other than big corporations and yet most rave about how nice the area is. I have been to many big cities in blue states. Some nice areas and a lot of not nice areas. Because the cost of living is so high, the average family in the suburbs lives well below what an average family in my state would have. A higher minimum wage, particularly one blindly dictated to every state from the federal government, will kill small business or raise the price of goods and services nullifying the raise for those that got one and hurting those they already made more.

Uh well right now not everyone qualifies for those programs so your point is stupid. Many other people are underinsured which means they can’t afford out of pocket expenses for critical health treatment. Are you just pretending our Heathcare system is great with or without ACA?

The majority of those that couldn’t qualify before ACA, can’t afford the premiums of the ACA now. The lower middle doesn’t every get enough subsidies from the ACA to afford it. They are paying for those that are getting the ACA at a bargain. The vast majority of people in this country will pay more under ACA and those in the middle to upper classes can’t afford it. I priced it out for fun several years ago. Granted, we have a very good income, but the rate and the deductibles were enormous. My wife and I could finance two new Porsche 911 Turbo’s and come out quite a bit cheaper per month.

Do you realize how much we spend on defense? These programs can be paid for by closing corporate tax loopholes and reducing defense spending. We waste billions on that shit.

We need a strong national defense. Our enemies LOVE Democrats in the US. They build, while we tear in down.

Only if it builds value? Bridges to nowhere? What the fuck are you talking about? You’re just parroting talking points clearly. You can’t even be an adult and say “yeah I think we can all agree improving our decaying power grid would be a good idea.” You’re just a lameass partisan.

Necessary infrastructure upgrades are ok. Doing infrastructure upgrades for the sake of helping the economy by the government spending money to private contractors is just another hair brained idiotic idea by leftists. Just another way to funnel money through the government and then redistribute it as they see fit.

 

[Mac-7]

It's a tradeoff. Hence me objecting to your statement we are claiming something for nothing is possible.

So you are saying that you are a rich person and you are better off after having your wealth tsken than you were by keeping it?

I dont believe that.

but we come from two different places

the Old World and the New

yours a feudal society of kings and serfs

And me the offspring of free men

Men and women who braved the danger and hardship of conquoring a new land because they wanted a better life

and you?

the residue that the adventurous people left behind

 

[forkup]

No one working 40 hours a week should be living in poverty. Any economic policy should be focused on alleviating this.

None of this has anything to do with the goal of people just living on the government tit or being paid the same wage regardless of work. It’s about making a capitalistic economy more egalitarian. This is done by limiting - not ELIMINATING - the extremes of poverty and wealth. Republicans can’t seem to grasp the basic, obvious nuance between this and communism for some bizarre reason.

Here are some examples of solutions:

1) Investing in education
2) Investing in infrastructure
3) Raising the minimum wage
4) Socialized healthcare
5) Socialized childcare

https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/articles/2020-07-08/biden-sanders-release-progressive-unity-platform-for-democratic-party?context=amp

Something for nothing, huh?

the liberal dream that never grows old

free tuition for students who would rather get high than study?

then after they leave college pay them $15 an hour to be a soda jerk at Starbucks?

how can a single mom with 3 children by 3 different men stay above the poverty level at such a low wage?

oh yeah, they get free babysitters till the kids are old enough to smoke dope and have kids of their own.

that sounds like a plan to me

Who is claiming it is for nothing? Paying taxes to fund services is not nothing. I'm European. My wife is American. I pay a tax rate that would make you blanch. On the other hand that tax rate gives me access to services that would require an American citizen to be an actual millionaire to afford.

Do tell.

-Ok, let's start with affordable access to ALL levels of education.
-The ability to ask and receive care at home from everything from people who cook, clean, nurses, physical therapists and doctors (yes our doctors still do housecalls if required.) And even childcare if necessary.
-Affordable healthcare for ( nearly) all conditions.
-Paid maternity and paternity leave for up to 3 months per child to be taken up before their 12 birthdday. (optional)
-A living wage if you get unemployed or sick. Meaning you will be able to pay the bills but nothing extra.
-The ability to get free reschooling if you get unemployed without losing benefits. This in areas where there's a labor shortage.
-Trade schools don't exist since we learn trades at high school level for those who don't go to college.
-Oh and we don't have schooldistricts so we can send our kids to what we find is the best school.

 

[forkup]

It's a tradeoff. Hence me objecting to your statement we are claiming something for nothing is possible.

So you are saying that you are a rich person and you are better off after having your wealth tsken than you were by keeping it?

I dont believe that.

but we come from two different places

the Old World and the New

yours a feudal society of kings and serfs

And me the offspring of free men

Men and women who braved the danger and hardship of conquoring a new land because they wanted a better life

and you?

the residue that the adventurous people left behind

Both condescending and putting up strawmen? Kudos!

First I didn't say rich people are better of if they have their wealth taken. I said explicitly that they weren't.

What I did say was that we as a society pit the prioritiy in the needs of those that are the weakest by demanding from the strongest that they contribute a proportionally higher part of their income.

To make it less abstract. We find it more important that a poor person can still enjoy good health and is capable of giving his children the highest level of education that their intellect can sustain. Than we find it important that a wealthy person can take their fourth vacation abroad.

To be clear we have rich people and we have poor people but there is simply a smaller gap between them.

 

[Markle]

No one working 40 hours a week should be living in poverty. Any economic policy should be focused on alleviating this.