Hell yes! It’s happening. China fears manufacturing exodus

[White 6]

China up close: Xi fears Japan-led manufacturing exodus from China

The year of the metal rat returns every 60 years -- and brings calamity with it

asia.nikkei.com

In Zhongnanhai, the area in central Beijing where leaders of the Chinese Communist Party and the state government have their offices, "there are now serious concerns over foreign companies withdrawing from China," a Chinese economic source said. "What has particularly been talked about is the clause in Japan's emergency economic package that encourages (and funds) the re-establishment of supply chains."


**** you China!

Let’s eat Sushi, NOT BATS!

They should be very afraid. It was foolish for the world, particularly the US to outsource majority of industrial production to the Communist Chinese in the first place. Maybe corona will be a wake up call., but kinda doubt it actually.

In regard to outsourcing, the decisions were made not by government but by individual businesses. Whoever provide the best product at the lowest price got the work. This is the heart of American capitalism. Why would an American business pay more money for the same work done in the US that can get done for less abroad. In a more socialist economy, government would pressure the business to hire American workers. In a more capitalist economy, government would support free market principals allowing the business to shift the work abroad to maximize profits. Siding with free market principals vs socialism is not a win win proposition.

Possibly because it is in our national interests to have a solid manufacturing base here for strategic purposes. What if it got to the point where all the anti-viral drugs were mainly manufactured in Communist China. Oops. We may have discovered and designed, but it appears, Communist China already makes the majority of anti-viral drugs for us. Not impressive at the moment, is it?

That kinda goes with the territory. If you allow private businesses to make decisions on what's best for their bottom line, they are going to buy from the lowest cost provider, even thou it's China.
BTW, antivirals are manufactured in a number of countries including the US. Both India and China tend to concentrate their manufacturing on high volume low cost generics. The US, UK, and EU countries concentrated on more high end products.

Good to know. I was just referring to articles lately saying most come from Communist China, like this one:
Where Your Drugs Come From: 90% of Many Common Drugs Made in China; FDA has Lost Control




American consumers have no idea that the majority of the over-the-counter drugs they buy come from China, where there are few regulations. The increasing dependence on China for active pharmaceutical ingredients and nutritional supplements is of growing concern. China is the world's largest manufacturer of bulk drugs and nutritional supplements and is now exporting a large portion of its production to the United States.

Where Your Drugs Come From: 90% of Many Common Drugs Made in China; FDA has Lost Control – American Jobs Alliance

The FDA conducts about 1000 inspections a year on foreign drug manufacturing facilities. This is about twice the number of inspections they do on US facilities. This is in addition to quality control inspections done by the US buyer of the drugs and those of other countries. Most all of these drugs are sold in a number countries, many of which have their own requirements which may include inspections. Drug recalls on prescription drugs are rare compared to other products. I have not seen anything to indicate that drugs manufactured in the US are any safer than those manufactured abroad. The companies that make these drugs are typically very large and supplying many countries including the country they are located in.

The real problem is that this kind of percentage of our drug supply went over there in the first place. Not exactly a labor intensive process. The usual cheap labor reason, not applying. Neither does the atmospheric pollution justification. I freely admit, I have no clue why so much of American drug supplies are manufactured in Communist China. Not in our best interests and hard to think it ever was.

 

[Flopper]

China up close: Xi fears Japan-led manufacturing exodus from China

The year of the metal rat returns every 60 years -- and brings calamity with it

asia.nikkei.com

In Zhongnanhai, the area in central Beijing where leaders of the Chinese Communist Party and the state government have their offices, "there are now serious concerns over foreign companies withdrawing from China," a Chinese economic source said. "What has particularly been talked about is the clause in Japan's emergency economic package that encourages (and funds) the re-establishment of supply chains."


**** you China!

Let’s eat Sushi, NOT BATS!

They should be very afraid. It was foolish for the world, particularly the US to outsource majority of industrial production to the Communist Chinese in the first place. Maybe corona will be a wake up call., but kinda doubt it actually.

In regard to outsourcing, the decisions were made not by government but by individual businesses. Whoever provide the best product at the lowest price got the work. This is the heart of American capitalism. Why would an American business pay more money for the same work done in the US that can get done for less abroad. In a more socialist economy, government would pressure the business to hire American workers. In a more capitalist economy, government would support free market principals allowing the business to shift the work abroad to maximize profits. Siding with free market principals vs socialism is not a win win proposition.

Possibly because it is in our national interests to have a solid manufacturing base here for strategic purposes. What if it got to the point where all the anti-viral drugs were mainly manufactured in Communist China. Oops. We may have discovered and designed, but it appears, Communist China already makes the majority of anti-viral drugs for us. Not impressive at the moment, is it?

That kinda goes with the territory. If you allow private businesses to make decisions on what's best for their bottom line, they are going to buy from the lowest cost provider, even thou it's China.
BTW, antivirals are manufactured in a number of countries including the US. Both India and China tend to concentrate their manufacturing on high volume low cost generics. The US, UK, and EU countries concentrated on more high end products.

Good to know. I was just referring to articles lately saying most come from Communist China, like this one:
Where Your Drugs Come From: 90% of Many Common Drugs Made in China; FDA has Lost Control




American consumers have no idea that the majority of the over-the-counter drugs they buy come from China, where there are few regulations. The increasing dependence on China for active pharmaceutical ingredients and nutritional supplements is of growing concern. China is the world's largest manufacturer of bulk drugs and nutritional supplements and is now exporting a large portion of its production to the United States.

Where Your Drugs Come From: 90% of Many Common Drugs Made in China; FDA has Lost Control – American Jobs Alliance

The FDA conducts about 1000 inspections a year on foreign drug manufacturing facilities. This is about twice the number of inspections they do on US facilities. This is in addition to quality control inspections done by the US buyer of the drugs and those of other countries. Most all of these drugs are sold in a number countries, many of which have their own requirements which may include inspections. Drug recalls on prescription drugs are rare compared to other products. I have not seen anything to indicate that drugs manufactured in the US are any safer than those manufactured abroad. The companies that make these drugs are typically very large and supplying many countries including the country they are located in.

The real problem is that this kind of percentage of our drug supply went over there in the first place. Not exactly a labor intensive process. The usual cheap labor reason, not applying. Neither does the atmospheric pollution justification. I freely admit, I have no clue why so much of American drug supplies are manufactured in Communist China. Not in our best interests and hard to think it ever was.

It's kind of a long story.
Like a lot of businesses in late 20th, century the pharmaceutical sector sought to cut overhead through mergers and elimination of middle management, etc which did increased profits significantly. The drive to reduce costs in the early 21st century drove manufacturing abroad. At that time most of our drugs came from Europe, Mexico, and the US. Also at this time, the demand for low cost pharmaceuticals was exploding in third world countries. This is when the drug companies discovery the potential of manufacturing in China and then India. Small manufacturing plants in China that were making OTC products began manufacturing prescription drugs. Demand throughout world for low cost drugs drove nearly all manufacturing to China and then India. The plants became gigantic and their large scale production made it impossible for developed nations to compete.

About 10 years ago, the major buyers in the US began consolidating. Their buying power was so great that they dictate prices to the manufactures pushing prices even lower which forced even more production to China. Today, the market is so consolidated that just four of these power buyers control over 90% of generic drug purchasing for the entire country. The same is happen but to lesser extent with brand name drugs.

The bottom line here is that pharmaceutical manufacturing in the US and Europe is limited to high end brand name drugs and this is very unlikely to change. Americans love being able to buy generics for $4 or $5 instead $50 or $60 or more. The drive to lower the cost of healthcare would make it almost impossible for goverment to tax these imports and drive the prices up, particularity in light of the fact, that pharmaceutical manufacturing is so highly automated that it would create relatively few jobs and the investment cost would be huge.

Opinion: Why Can't America Make Its Own Medicine Anymore?

The coronavirus outbreak is a good time to ask why our leaders sat by as so much of the US pharmaceutical industry was shipped abroad.

www.buzzfeednews.com

 

[White 6]

China up close: Xi fears Japan-led manufacturing exodus from China

The year of the metal rat returns every 60 years -- and brings calamity with it

asia.nikkei.com

In Zhongnanhai, the area in central Beijing where leaders of the Chinese Communist Party and the state government have their offices, "there are now serious concerns over foreign companies withdrawing from China," a Chinese economic source said. "What has particularly been talked about is the clause in Japan's emergency economic package that encourages (and funds) the re-establishment of supply chains."


**** you China!

Let’s eat Sushi, NOT BATS!

They should be very afraid. It was foolish for the world, particularly the US to outsource majority of industrial production to the Communist Chinese in the first place. Maybe corona will be a wake up call., but kinda doubt it actually.

In regard to outsourcing, the decisions were made not by government but by individual businesses. Whoever provide the best product at the lowest price got the work. This is the heart of American capitalism. Why would an American business pay more money for the same work done in the US that can get done for less abroad. In a more socialist economy, government would pressure the business to hire American workers. In a more capitalist economy, government would support free market principals allowing the business to shift the work abroad to maximize profits. Siding with free market principals vs socialism is not a win win proposition.

Possibly because it is in our national interests to have a solid manufacturing base here for strategic purposes. What if it got to the point where all the anti-viral drugs were mainly manufactured in Communist China. Oops. We may have discovered and designed, but it appears, Communist China already makes the majority of anti-viral drugs for us. Not impressive at the moment, is it?

That kinda goes with the territory. If you allow private businesses to make decisions on what's best for their bottom line, they are going to buy from the lowest cost provider, even thou it's China.
BTW, antivirals are manufactured in a number of countries including the US. Both India and China tend to concentrate their manufacturing on high volume low cost generics. The US, UK, and EU countries concentrated on more high end products.

Good to know. I was just referring to articles lately saying most come from Communist China, like this one:
Where Your Drugs Come From: 90% of Many Common Drugs Made in China; FDA has Lost Control




American consumers have no idea that the majority of the over-the-counter drugs they buy come from China, where there are few regulations. The increasing dependence on China for active pharmaceutical ingredients and nutritional supplements is of growing concern. China is the world's largest manufacturer of bulk drugs and nutritional supplements and is now exporting a large portion of its production to the United States.

Where Your Drugs Come From: 90% of Many Common Drugs Made in China; FDA has Lost Control – American Jobs Alliance

The FDA conducts about 1000 inspections a year on foreign drug manufacturing facilities. This is about twice the number of inspections they do on US facilities. This is in addition to quality control inspections done by the US buyer of the drugs and those of other countries. Most all of these drugs are sold in a number countries, many of which have their own requirements which may include inspections. Drug recalls on prescription drugs are rare compared to other products. I have not seen anything to indicate that drugs manufactured in the US are any safer than those manufactured abroad. The companies that make these drugs are typically very large and supplying many countries including the country they are located in.

The real problem is that this kind of percentage of our drug supply went over there in the first place. Not exactly a labor intensive process. The usual cheap labor reason, not applying. Neither does the atmospheric pollution justification. I freely admit, I have no clue why so much of American drug supplies are manufactured in Communist China. Not in our best interests and hard to think it ever was.

It's kind of a long story.
Like a lot of businesses in late 20th, century the pharmaceutical sector sought to cut overhead through mergers and elimination of middle management, etc which did increased profits significantly. The drive to reduce costs in the early 21st century drove manufacturing abroad. At that time most of our drugs came from Europe, Mexico, and the US. Also at this time, the demand for low cost pharmaceuticals was exploding in third world countries. This is when the drug companies discovery the potential of manufacturing in China and then India. Small manufacturing plants in China that were making OTC products began manufacturing prescription drugs. Demand throughout world for low cost drugs drove nearly all manufacturing to China and then India. The plants became gigantic and their large scale production made it impossible for developed nations to compete.

About 10 years ago, the major buyers in the US began consolidating. Their buying power was so great that they dictate prices to the manufactures pushing prices even lower which forced even more production to China. Today, the market is so consolidated that just four of these power buyers control over 90% of generic drug purchasing for the entire country. The same is happen but to lesser extent with brand name drugs.

The bottom line here is that pharmaceutical manufacturing in the US and Europe is limited to high end brand name drugs and this is very unlikely to change. Americans love being able to buy generics for $4 or $5 instead $50 or $60 or more. The drive to lower the cost of healthcare would make it almost impossible for goverment to tax these imports and drive the prices up, particularity in light of the fact, that pharmaceutical manufacturing is so highly automated that it would create relatively few jobs and the investment cost would be huge.

Opinion: Why Can't America Make Its Own Medicine Anymore?

The coronavirus outbreak is a good time to ask why our leaders sat by as so much of the US pharmaceutical industry was shipped abroad.

www.buzzfeednews.com

That is a really good, informative post! At the same time though, a highly automated production facility with few employees and postential for large ROI if favored by the government sounds right up alley for an existing American Drug company spin off. If the Communist Chinese can produce a $5 generic of a $50 name brand drug at a profit, than an American company should also be able to, unless they are determined not to compete with the name brand American product or forbidden by some law.

 

[Flopper]

China up close: Xi fears Japan-led manufacturing exodus from China

The year of the metal rat returns every 60 years -- and brings calamity with it

asia.nikkei.com

In Zhongnanhai, the area in central Beijing where leaders of the Chinese Communist Party and the state government have their offices, "there are now serious concerns over foreign companies withdrawing from China," a Chinese economic source said. "What has particularly been talked about is the clause in Japan's emergency economic package that encourages (and funds) the re-establishment of supply chains."


**** you China!

Let’s eat Sushi, NOT BATS!

They should be very afraid. It was foolish for the world, particularly the US to outsource majority of industrial production to the Communist Chinese in the first place. Maybe corona will be a wake up call., but kinda doubt it actually.

In regard to outsourcing, the decisions were made not by government but by individual businesses. Whoever provide the best product at the lowest price got the work. This is the heart of American capitalism. Why would an American business pay more money for the same work done in the US that can get done for less abroad. In a more socialist economy, government would pressure the business to hire American workers. In a more capitalist economy, government would support free market principals allowing the business to shift the work abroad to maximize profits. Siding with free market principals vs socialism is not a win win proposition.

Possibly because it is in our national interests to have a solid manufacturing base here for strategic purposes. What if it got to the point where all the anti-viral drugs were mainly manufactured in Communist China. Oops. We may have discovered and designed, but it appears, Communist China already makes the majority of anti-viral drugs for us. Not impressive at the moment, is it?

That kinda goes with the territory. If you allow private businesses to make decisions on what's best for their bottom line, they are going to buy from the lowest cost provider, even thou it's China.
BTW, antivirals are manufactured in a number of countries including the US. Both India and China tend to concentrate their manufacturing on high volume low cost generics. The US, UK, and EU countries concentrated on more high end products.

Good to know. I was just referring to articles lately saying most come from Communist China, like this one:
Where Your Drugs Come From: 90% of Many Common Drugs Made in China; FDA has Lost Control




American consumers have no idea that the majority of the over-the-counter drugs they buy come from China, where there are few regulations. The increasing dependence on China for active pharmaceutical ingredients and nutritional supplements is of growing concern. China is the world's largest manufacturer of bulk drugs and nutritional supplements and is now exporting a large portion of its production to the United States.

Where Your Drugs Come From: 90% of Many Common Drugs Made in China; FDA has Lost Control – American Jobs Alliance

The FDA conducts about 1000 inspections a year on foreign drug manufacturing facilities. This is about twice the number of inspections they do on US facilities. This is in addition to quality control inspections done by the US buyer of the drugs and those of other countries. Most all of these drugs are sold in a number countries, many of which have their own requirements which may include inspections. Drug recalls on prescription drugs are rare compared to other products. I have not seen anything to indicate that drugs manufactured in the US are any safer than those manufactured abroad. The companies that make these drugs are typically very large and supplying many countries including the country they are located in.

The real problem is that this kind of percentage of our drug supply went over there in the first place. Not exactly a labor intensive process. The usual cheap labor reason, not applying. Neither does the atmospheric pollution justification. I freely admit, I have no clue why so much of American drug supplies are manufactured in Communist China. Not in our best interests and hard to think it ever was.

It's kind of a long story.
Like a lot of businesses in late 20th, century the pharmaceutical sector sought to cut overhead through mergers and elimination of middle management, etc which did increased profits significantly. The drive to reduce costs in the early 21st century drove manufacturing abroad. At that time most of our drugs came from Europe, Mexico, and the US. Also at this time, the demand for low cost pharmaceuticals was exploding in third world countries. This is when the drug companies discovery the potential of manufacturing in China and then India. Small manufacturing plants in China that were making OTC products began manufacturing prescription drugs. Demand throughout world for low cost drugs drove nearly all manufacturing to China and then India. The plants became gigantic and their large scale production made it impossible for developed nations to compete.

About 10 years ago, the major buyers in the US began consolidating. Their buying power was so great that they dictate prices to the manufactures pushing prices even lower which forced even more production to China. Today, the market is so consolidated that just four of these power buyers control over 90% of generic drug purchasing for the entire country. The same is happen but to lesser extent with brand name drugs.

The bottom line here is that pharmaceutical manufacturing in the US and Europe is limited to high end brand name drugs and this is very unlikely to change. Americans love being able to buy generics for $4 or $5 instead $50 or $60 or more. The drive to lower the cost of healthcare would make it almost impossible for goverment to tax these imports and drive the prices up, particularity in light of the fact, that pharmaceutical manufacturing is so highly automated that it would create relatively few jobs and the investment cost would be huge.

Opinion: Why Can't America Make Its Own Medicine Anymore?

The coronavirus outbreak is a good time to ask why our leaders sat by as so much of the US pharmaceutical industry was shipped abroad.

www.buzzfeednews.com

That is a really good, informative post! At the same time though, a highly automated production facility with few employees and postential for large ROI if favored by the government sounds right up alley for an existing American Drug company spin off. If the Communist Chinese can produce a $5 generic of a $50 name brand drug at a profit, than an American company should also be able to, unless they are determined not to compete with the name brand American product or forbidden by some law.

Thanks
I would suspect that the company would still need price protection from the Chinese then the volume would be lower because it would not be able to compete in foreign markets.

If the concern is that the Chinese might cut off our supply of drugs, that would not happen but the price might be higher because we might have to buy those drugs through other countries that are importing from China. In reality, Chinese would simple raise price but not so much that we would go elsewhere to obtain them. If the price was too far out of line, India, Pakistan or some other low cost providers would move into the market. Making most drugs is not rocket science, developing them is. Making them at a low cause is the challenge.

 

[White 6]

China up close: Xi fears Japan-led manufacturing exodus from China

The year of the metal rat returns every 60 years -- and brings calamity with it

asia.nikkei.com

In Zhongnanhai, the area in central Beijing where leaders of the Chinese Communist Party and the state government have their offices, "there are now serious concerns over foreign companies withdrawing from China," a Chinese economic source said. "What has particularly been talked about is the clause in Japan's emergency economic package that encourages (and funds) the re-establishment of supply chains."


**** you China!

Let’s eat Sushi, NOT BATS!

They should be very afraid. It was foolish for the world, particularly the US to outsource majority of industrial production to the Communist Chinese in the first place. Maybe corona will be a wake up call., but kinda doubt it actually.

In regard to outsourcing, the decisions were made not by government but by individual businesses. Whoever provide the best product at the lowest price got the work. This is the heart of American capitalism. Why would an American business pay more money for the same work done in the US that can get done for less abroad. In a more socialist economy, government would pressure the business to hire American workers. In a more capitalist economy, government would support free market principals allowing the business to shift the work abroad to maximize profits. Siding with free market principals vs socialism is not a win win proposition.

Possibly because it is in our national interests to have a solid manufacturing base here for strategic purposes. What if it got to the point where all the anti-viral drugs were mainly manufactured in Communist China. Oops. We may have discovered and designed, but it appears, Communist China already makes the majority of anti-viral drugs for us. Not impressive at the moment, is it?

That kinda goes with the territory. If you allow private businesses to make decisions on what's best for their bottom line, they are going to buy from the lowest cost provider, even thou it's China.
BTW, antivirals are manufactured in a number of countries including the US. Both India and China tend to concentrate their manufacturing on high volume low cost generics. The US, UK, and EU countries concentrated on more high end products.

Good to know. I was just referring to articles lately saying most come from Communist China, like this one:
Where Your Drugs Come From: 90% of Many Common Drugs Made in China; FDA has Lost Control




American consumers have no idea that the majority of the over-the-counter drugs they buy come from China, where there are few regulations. The increasing dependence on China for active pharmaceutical ingredients and nutritional supplements is of growing concern. China is the world's largest manufacturer of bulk drugs and nutritional supplements and is now exporting a large portion of its production to the United States.

Where Your Drugs Come From: 90% of Many Common Drugs Made in China; FDA has Lost Control – American Jobs Alliance

The FDA conducts about 1000 inspections a year on foreign drug manufacturing facilities. This is about twice the number of inspections they do on US facilities. This is in addition to quality control inspections done by the US buyer of the drugs and those of other countries. Most all of these drugs are sold in a number countries, many of which have their own requirements which may include inspections. Drug recalls on prescription drugs are rare compared to other products. I have not seen anything to indicate that drugs manufactured in the US are any safer than those manufactured abroad. The companies that make these drugs are typically very large and supplying many countries including the country they are located in.

The real problem is that this kind of percentage of our drug supply went over there in the first place. Not exactly a labor intensive process. The usual cheap labor reason, not applying. Neither does the atmospheric pollution justification. I freely admit, I have no clue why so much of American drug supplies are manufactured in Communist China. Not in our best interests and hard to think it ever was.

It's kind of a long story.
Like a lot of businesses in late 20th, century the pharmaceutical sector sought to cut overhead through mergers and elimination of middle management, etc which did increased profits significantly. The drive to reduce costs in the early 21st century drove manufacturing abroad. At that time most of our drugs came from Europe, Mexico, and the US. Also at this time, the demand for low cost pharmaceuticals was exploding in third world countries. This is when the drug companies discovery the potential of manufacturing in China and then India. Small manufacturing plants in China that were making OTC products began manufacturing prescription drugs. Demand throughout world for low cost drugs drove nearly all manufacturing to China and then India. The plants became gigantic and their large scale production made it impossible for developed nations to compete.

About 10 years ago, the major buyers in the US began consolidating. Their buying power was so great that they dictate prices to the manufactures pushing prices even lower which forced even more production to China. Today, the market is so consolidated that just four of these power buyers control over 90% of generic drug purchasing for the entire country. The same is happen but to lesser extent with brand name drugs.

The bottom line here is that pharmaceutical manufacturing in the US and Europe is limited to high end brand name drugs and this is very unlikely to change. Americans love being able to buy generics for $4 or $5 instead $50 or $60 or more. The drive to lower the cost of healthcare would make it almost impossible for goverment to tax these imports and drive the prices up, particularity in light of the fact, that pharmaceutical manufacturing is so highly automated that it would create relatively few jobs and the investment cost would be huge.

Opinion: Why Can't America Make Its Own Medicine Anymore?

The coronavirus outbreak is a good time to ask why our leaders sat by as so much of the US pharmaceutical industry was shipped abroad.

www.buzzfeednews.com

That is a really good, informative post! At the same time though, a highly automated production facility with few employees and postential for large ROI if favored by the government sounds right up alley for an existing American Drug company spin off. If the Communist Chinese can produce a $5 generic of a $50 name brand drug at a profit, than an American company should also be able to, unless they are determined not to compete with the name brand American product or forbidden by some law.

Thanks
I would suspect that the company would still need price protection from the Chinese then the volume would be lower because it would not be able to compete in foreign markets.

If the concern is that the Chinese might cut off our supply of drugs, that would not happen but the price might be higher because we might have to buy those drugs through other countries that are importing from China. In reality, Chinese would simple raise price but not so much that we would go elsewhere to obtain them. If the price was too far out of line, India, Pakistan or some other low cost providers would move into the market. Making most drugs is not rocket science, developing them is. Making them at a low cause is the challenge.

Agreed. I would have no problem with price protection, due to strategic interests in medical production. As for cost of production, I see very little difference in the long run. High speed production is here already and applied to everything from Pringles to Coca Cola. Mixing and loading capsule does not sound intimidating.

 

[Flopper]

China up close: Xi fears Japan-led manufacturing exodus from China

The year of the metal rat returns every 60 years -- and brings calamity with it

asia.nikkei.com

In Zhongnanhai, the area in central Beijing where leaders of the Chinese Communist Party and the state government have their offices, "there are now serious concerns over foreign companies withdrawing from China," a Chinese economic source said. "What has particularly been talked about is the clause in Japan's emergency economic package that encourages (and funds) the re-establishment of supply chains."


**** you China!

Let’s eat Sushi, NOT BATS!

They should be very afraid. It was foolish for the world, particularly the US to outsource majority of industrial production to the Communist Chinese in the first place. Maybe corona will be a wake up call., but kinda doubt it actually.

In regard to outsourcing, the decisions were made not by government but by individual businesses. Whoever provide the best product at the lowest price got the work. This is the heart of American capitalism. Why would an American business pay more money for the same work done in the US that can get done for less abroad. In a more socialist economy, government would pressure the business to hire American workers. In a more capitalist economy, government would support free market principals allowing the business to shift the work abroad to maximize profits. Siding with free market principals vs socialism is not a win win proposition.

Possibly because it is in our national interests to have a solid manufacturing base here for strategic purposes. What if it got to the point where all the anti-viral drugs were mainly manufactured in Communist China. Oops. We may have discovered and designed, but it appears, Communist China already makes the majority of anti-viral drugs for us. Not impressive at the moment, is it?

That kinda goes with the territory. If you allow private businesses to make decisions on what's best for their bottom line, they are going to buy from the lowest cost provider, even thou it's China.
BTW, antivirals are manufactured in a number of countries including the US. Both India and China tend to concentrate their manufacturing on high volume low cost generics. The US, UK, and EU countries concentrated on more high end products.

Good to know. I was just referring to articles lately saying most come from Communist China, like this one:
Where Your Drugs Come From: 90% of Many Common Drugs Made in China; FDA has Lost Control




American consumers have no idea that the majority of the over-the-counter drugs they buy come from China, where there are few regulations. The increasing dependence on China for active pharmaceutical ingredients and nutritional supplements is of growing concern. China is the world's largest manufacturer of bulk drugs and nutritional supplements and is now exporting a large portion of its production to the United States.

Where Your Drugs Come From: 90% of Many Common Drugs Made in China; FDA has Lost Control – American Jobs Alliance

The FDA conducts about 1000 inspections a year on foreign drug manufacturing facilities. This is about twice the number of inspections they do on US facilities. This is in addition to quality control inspections done by the US buyer of the drugs and those of other countries. Most all of these drugs are sold in a number countries, many of which have their own requirements which may include inspections. Drug recalls on prescription drugs are rare compared to other products. I have not seen anything to indicate that drugs manufactured in the US are any safer than those manufactured abroad. The companies that make these drugs are typically very large and supplying many countries including the country they are located in.

The real problem is that this kind of percentage of our drug supply went over there in the first place. Not exactly a labor intensive process. The usual cheap labor reason, not applying. Neither does the atmospheric pollution justification. I freely admit, I have no clue why so much of American drug supplies are manufactured in Communist China. Not in our best interests and hard to think it ever was.

It's kind of a long story.
Like a lot of businesses in late 20th, century the pharmaceutical sector sought to cut overhead through mergers and elimination of middle management, etc which did increased profits significantly. The drive to reduce costs in the early 21st century drove manufacturing abroad. At that time most of our drugs came from Europe, Mexico, and the US. Also at this time, the demand for low cost pharmaceuticals was exploding in third world countries. This is when the drug companies discovery the potential of manufacturing in China and then India. Small manufacturing plants in China that were making OTC products began manufacturing prescription drugs. Demand throughout world for low cost drugs drove nearly all manufacturing to China and then India. The plants became gigantic and their large scale production made it impossible for developed nations to compete.

About 10 years ago, the major buyers in the US began consolidating. Their buying power was so great that they dictate prices to the manufactures pushing prices even lower which forced even more production to China. Today, the market is so consolidated that just four of these power buyers control over 90% of generic drug purchasing for the entire country. The same is happen but to lesser extent with brand name drugs.

The bottom line here is that pharmaceutical manufacturing in the US and Europe is limited to high end brand name drugs and this is very unlikely to change. Americans love being able to buy generics for $4 or $5 instead $50 or $60 or more. The drive to lower the cost of healthcare would make it almost impossible for goverment to tax these imports and drive the prices up, particularity in light of the fact, that pharmaceutical manufacturing is so highly automated that it would create relatively few jobs and the investment cost would be huge.

Opinion: Why Can't America Make Its Own Medicine Anymore?

The coronavirus outbreak is a good time to ask why our leaders sat by as so much of the US pharmaceutical industry was shipped abroad.

www.buzzfeednews.com

That is a really good, informative post! At the same time though, a highly automated production facility with few employees and postential for large ROI if favored by the government sounds right up alley for an existing American Drug company spin off. If the Communist Chinese can produce a $5 generic of a $50 name brand drug at a profit, than an American company should also be able to, unless they are determined not to compete with the name brand American product or forbidden by some law.

Thanks
I would suspect that the company would still need price protection from the Chinese then the volume would be lower because it would not be able to compete in foreign markets.

If the concern is that the Chinese might cut off our supply of drugs, that would not happen but the price might be higher because we might have to buy those drugs through other countries that are importing from China. In reality, Chinese would simple raise price but not so much that we would go elsewhere to obtain them. If the price was too far out of line, India, Pakistan or some other low cost providers would move into the market. Making most drugs is not rocket science, developing them is. Making them at a low cause is the challenge.

Agreed. I would have no problem with price protection, due to strategic interests in medical production. As for cost of production, I see very little difference in the long run. High speed production is here already and applied to everything from Pringles to Coca Cola. Mixing and loading capsule does not sound intimidating.

When I say the plants are automated, I don't mean they are run by just a few workers. The largest plants in China employ thousands of workers. One of the major reasons for the low prices is their huge volume. China and India supply almost all the low cost generics to whole world. If the US producers had a higher price then the government could tax the Chinese imports to protect these producers but their products would be too expensive to sell abroad.

I don't think we would ever have to worry about not being able to get the drugs we need, we just might have to pay a higher price.

 

[White 6]

China up close: Xi fears Japan-led manufacturing exodus from China

The year of the metal rat returns every 60 years -- and brings calamity with it

asia.nikkei.com

In Zhongnanhai, the area in central Beijing where leaders of the Chinese Communist Party and the state government have their offices, "there are now serious concerns over foreign companies withdrawing from China," a Chinese economic source said. "What has particularly been talked about is the clause in Japan's emergency economic package that encourages (and funds) the re-establishment of supply chains."


**** you China!

Let’s eat Sushi, NOT BATS!

They should be very afraid. It was foolish for the world, particularly the US to outsource majority of industrial production to the Communist Chinese in the first place. Maybe corona will be a wake up call., but kinda doubt it actually.

In regard to outsourcing, the decisions were made not by government but by individual businesses. Whoever provide the best product at the lowest price got the work. This is the heart of American capitalism. Why would an American business pay more money for the same work done in the US that can get done for less abroad. In a more socialist economy, government would pressure the business to hire American workers. In a more capitalist economy, government would support free market principals allowing the business to shift the work abroad to maximize profits. Siding with free market principals vs socialism is not a win win proposition.

Possibly because it is in our national interests to have a solid manufacturing base here for strategic purposes. What if it got to the point where all the anti-viral drugs were mainly manufactured in Communist China. Oops. We may have discovered and designed, but it appears, Communist China already makes the majority of anti-viral drugs for us. Not impressive at the moment, is it?

That kinda goes with the territory. If you allow private businesses to make decisions on what's best for their bottom line, they are going to buy from the lowest cost provider, even thou it's China.
BTW, antivirals are manufactured in a number of countries including the US. Both India and China tend to concentrate their manufacturing on high volume low cost generics. The US, UK, and EU countries concentrated on more high end products.

Good to know. I was just referring to articles lately saying most come from Communist China, like this one:
Where Your Drugs Come From: 90% of Many Common Drugs Made in China; FDA has Lost Control




American consumers have no idea that the majority of the over-the-counter drugs they buy come from China, where there are few regulations. The increasing dependence on China for active pharmaceutical ingredients and nutritional supplements is of growing concern. China is the world's largest manufacturer of bulk drugs and nutritional supplements and is now exporting a large portion of its production to the United States.

Where Your Drugs Come From: 90% of Many Common Drugs Made in China; FDA has Lost Control – American Jobs Alliance

The FDA conducts about 1000 inspections a year on foreign drug manufacturing facilities. This is about twice the number of inspections they do on US facilities. This is in addition to quality control inspections done by the US buyer of the drugs and those of other countries. Most all of these drugs are sold in a number countries, many of which have their own requirements which may include inspections. Drug recalls on prescription drugs are rare compared to other products. I have not seen anything to indicate that drugs manufactured in the US are any safer than those manufactured abroad. The companies that make these drugs are typically very large and supplying many countries including the country they are located in.

The real problem is that this kind of percentage of our drug supply went over there in the first place. Not exactly a labor intensive process. The usual cheap labor reason, not applying. Neither does the atmospheric pollution justification. I freely admit, I have no clue why so much of American drug supplies are manufactured in Communist China. Not in our best interests and hard to think it ever was.

It's kind of a long story.
Like a lot of businesses in late 20th, century the pharmaceutical sector sought to cut overhead through mergers and elimination of middle management, etc which did increased profits significantly. The drive to reduce costs in the early 21st century drove manufacturing abroad. At that time most of our drugs came from Europe, Mexico, and the US. Also at this time, the demand for low cost pharmaceuticals was exploding in third world countries. This is when the drug companies discovery the potential of manufacturing in China and then India. Small manufacturing plants in China that were making OTC products began manufacturing prescription drugs. Demand throughout world for low cost drugs drove nearly all manufacturing to China and then India. The plants became gigantic and their large scale production made it impossible for developed nations to compete.

About 10 years ago, the major buyers in the US began consolidating. Their buying power was so great that they dictate prices to the manufactures pushing prices even lower which forced even more production to China. Today, the market is so consolidated that just four of these power buyers control over 90% of generic drug purchasing for the entire country. The same is happen but to lesser extent with brand name drugs.

The bottom line here is that pharmaceutical manufacturing in the US and Europe is limited to high end brand name drugs and this is very unlikely to change. Americans love being able to buy generics for $4 or $5 instead $50 or $60 or more. The drive to lower the cost of healthcare would make it almost impossible for goverment to tax these imports and drive the prices up, particularity in light of the fact, that pharmaceutical manufacturing is so highly automated that it would create relatively few jobs and the investment cost would be huge.

Opinion: Why Can't America Make Its Own Medicine Anymore?

The coronavirus outbreak is a good time to ask why our leaders sat by as so much of the US pharmaceutical industry was shipped abroad.

www.buzzfeednews.com

That is a really good, informative post! At the same time though, a highly automated production facility with few employees and postential for large ROI if favored by the government sounds right up alley for an existing American Drug company spin off. If the Communist Chinese can produce a $5 generic of a $50 name brand drug at a profit, than an American company should also be able to, unless they are determined not to compete with the name brand American product or forbidden by some law.

Thanks
I would suspect that the company would still need price protection from the Chinese then the volume would be lower because it would not be able to compete in foreign markets.

If the concern is that the Chinese might cut off our supply of drugs, that would not happen but the price might be higher because we might have to buy those drugs through other countries that are importing from China. In reality, Chinese would simple raise price but not so much that we would go elsewhere to obtain them. If the price was too far out of line, India, Pakistan or some other low cost providers would move into the market. Making most drugs is not rocket science, developing them is. Making them at a low cause is the challenge.

Agreed. I would have no problem with price protection, due to strategic interests in medical production. As for cost of production, I see very little difference in the long run. High speed production is here already and applied to everything from Pringles to Coca Cola. Mixing and loading capsule does not sound intimidating.

When I say the plants are automated, I don't mean they are run by just a few workers. The largest plants in China employ thousands of workers. One of the major reasons for the low prices is their huge volume. China and India supply almost all the low cost generics to whole world. If the US producers had a higher price then the government could tax the Chinese imports to protect these producers but their products would be too expensive to sell abroad.

I don't think we would ever have to worry about not being able to get the drugs we need, we just might have to pay a higher price.

You are all over this thing, that really I was not even aware of until Corona hit. Saw you location. Are you there in connection with that industry, the government or would it be better I didn't ask?

 

[Flopper]

China up close: Xi fears Japan-led manufacturing exodus from China

The year of the metal rat returns every 60 years -- and brings calamity with it

asia.nikkei.com

In Zhongnanhai, the area in central Beijing where leaders of the Chinese Communist Party and the state government have their offices, "there are now serious concerns over foreign companies withdrawing from China," a Chinese economic source said. "What has particularly been talked about is the clause in Japan's emergency economic package that encourages (and funds) the re-establishment of supply chains."


**** you China!

Let’s eat Sushi, NOT BATS!

They should be very afraid. It was foolish for the world, particularly the US to outsource majority of industrial production to the Communist Chinese in the first place. Maybe corona will be a wake up call., but kinda doubt it actually.

In regard to outsourcing, the decisions were made not by government but by individual businesses. Whoever provide the best product at the lowest price got the work. This is the heart of American capitalism. Why would an American business pay more money for the same work done in the US that can get done for less abroad. In a more socialist economy, government would pressure the business to hire American workers. In a more capitalist economy, government would support free market principals allowing the business to shift the work abroad to maximize profits. Siding with free market principals vs socialism is not a win win proposition.

Possibly because it is in our national interests to have a solid manufacturing base here for strategic purposes. What if it got to the point where all the anti-viral drugs were mainly manufactured in Communist China. Oops. We may have discovered and designed, but it appears, Communist China already makes the majority of anti-viral drugs for us. Not impressive at the moment, is it?

That kinda goes with the territory. If you allow private businesses to make decisions on what's best for their bottom line, they are going to buy from the lowest cost provider, even thou it's China.
BTW, antivirals are manufactured in a number of countries including the US. Both India and China tend to concentrate their manufacturing on high volume low cost generics. The US, UK, and EU countries concentrated on more high end products.

Good to know. I was just referring to articles lately saying most come from Communist China, like this one:
Where Your Drugs Come From: 90% of Many Common Drugs Made in China; FDA has Lost Control




American consumers have no idea that the majority of the over-the-counter drugs they buy come from China, where there are few regulations. The increasing dependence on China for active pharmaceutical ingredients and nutritional supplements is of growing concern. China is the world's largest manufacturer of bulk drugs and nutritional supplements and is now exporting a large portion of its production to the United States.

Where Your Drugs Come From: 90% of Many Common Drugs Made in China; FDA has Lost Control – American Jobs Alliance

The FDA conducts about 1000 inspections a year on foreign drug manufacturing facilities. This is about twice the number of inspections they do on US facilities. This is in addition to quality control inspections done by the US buyer of the drugs and those of other countries. Most all of these drugs are sold in a number countries, many of which have their own requirements which may include inspections. Drug recalls on prescription drugs are rare compared to other products. I have not seen anything to indicate that drugs manufactured in the US are any safer than those manufactured abroad. The companies that make these drugs are typically very large and supplying many countries including the country they are located in.

The real problem is that this kind of percentage of our drug supply went over there in the first place. Not exactly a labor intensive process. The usual cheap labor reason, not applying. Neither does the atmospheric pollution justification. I freely admit, I have no clue why so much of American drug supplies are manufactured in Communist China. Not in our best interests and hard to think it ever was.

It's kind of a long story.
Like a lot of businesses in late 20th, century the pharmaceutical sector sought to cut overhead through mergers and elimination of middle management, etc which did increased profits significantly. The drive to reduce costs in the early 21st century drove manufacturing abroad. At that time most of our drugs came from Europe, Mexico, and the US. Also at this time, the demand for low cost pharmaceuticals was exploding in third world countries. This is when the drug companies discovery the potential of manufacturing in China and then India. Small manufacturing plants in China that were making OTC products began manufacturing prescription drugs. Demand throughout world for low cost drugs drove nearly all manufacturing to China and then India. The plants became gigantic and their large scale production made it impossible for developed nations to compete.

About 10 years ago, the major buyers in the US began consolidating. Their buying power was so great that they dictate prices to the manufactures pushing prices even lower which forced even more production to China. Today, the market is so consolidated that just four of these power buyers control over 90% of generic drug purchasing for the entire country. The same is happen but to lesser extent with brand name drugs.

The bottom line here is that pharmaceutical manufacturing in the US and Europe is limited to high end brand name drugs and this is very unlikely to change. Americans love being able to buy generics for $4 or $5 instead $50 or $60 or more. The drive to lower the cost of healthcare would make it almost impossible for goverment to tax these imports and drive the prices up, particularity in light of the fact, that pharmaceutical manufacturing is so highly automated that it would create relatively few jobs and the investment cost would be huge.

Opinion: Why Can't America Make Its Own Medicine Anymore?

The coronavirus outbreak is a good time to ask why our leaders sat by as so much of the US pharmaceutical industry was shipped abroad.

www.buzzfeednews.com

That is a really good, informative post! At the same time though, a highly automated production facility with few employees and postential for large ROI if favored by the government sounds right up alley for an existing American Drug company spin off. If the Communist Chinese can produce a $5 generic of a $50 name brand drug at a profit, than an American company should also be able to, unless they are determined not to compete with the name brand American product or forbidden by some law.

Thanks
I would suspect that the company would still need price protection from the Chinese then the volume would be lower because it would not be able to compete in foreign markets.

If the concern is that the Chinese might cut off our supply of drugs, that would not happen but the price might be higher because we might have to buy those drugs through other countries that are importing from China. In reality, Chinese would simple raise price but not so much that we would go elsewhere to obtain them. If the price was too far out of line, India, Pakistan or some other low cost providers would move into the market. Making most drugs is not rocket science, developing them is. Making them at a low cause is the challenge.

Agreed. I would have no problem with price protection, due to strategic interests in medical production. As for cost of production, I see very little difference in the long run. High speed production is here already and applied to everything from Pringles to Coca Cola. Mixing and loading capsule does not sound intimidating.

When I say the plants are automated, I don't mean they are run by just a few workers. The largest plants in China employ thousands of workers. One of the major reasons for the low prices is their huge volume. China and India supply almost all the low cost generics to whole world. If the US producers had a higher price then the government could tax the Chinese imports to protect these producers but their products would be too expensive to sell abroad.

I don't think we would ever have to worry about not being able to get the drugs we need, we just might have to pay a higher price.

You are all over this thing, that really I was not even aware of until Corona hit. Saw you location. Are you there in connection with that industry, the government or would it be better I didn't ask?

No, but I have been to China a number of times on business. I can tell you that what most Americans seem to think about the Chinese people is mostly wrong. The government stays pretty much out of private business, although when I was there, the government levied a lot fees and taxes on business. I understand that's been reduced a lot. Most Chinese I dealt with spoke English but knew next nothing about the US. There seem to be far less regulations on business in China compared to the US. However for an American doing business in China that is not the case. The relationship between people and the government seemed rather strange to me. In spike of having almost no political freedoms, and a government notorious for human rights abuse, the people seemed very satisfied with the government. I never once got the impression that anyone was in fear of the government. I actually think most people felt a great deal of pride in the government. Employment is not much different than the US other than than wages are a lot lower compared to the US. Education is extremely important in China and it's not just having a degree. You're expected to demonstration your skills. Workers seem to change jobs quite often even for very small increases in pay.

 

[White 6]

China up close: Xi fears Japan-led manufacturing exodus from China

The year of the metal rat returns every 60 years -- and brings calamity with it

asia.nikkei.com

In Zhongnanhai, the area in central Beijing where leaders of the Chinese Communist Party and the state government have their offices, "there are now serious concerns over foreign companies withdrawing from China," a Chinese economic source said. "What has particularly been talked about is the clause in Japan's emergency economic package that encourages (and funds) the re-establishment of supply chains."


**** you China!

Let’s eat Sushi, NOT BATS!

They should be very afraid. It was foolish for the world, particularly the US to outsource majority of industrial production to the Communist Chinese in the first place. Maybe corona will be a wake up call., but kinda doubt it actually.

In regard to outsourcing, the decisions were made not by government but by individual businesses. Whoever provide the best product at the lowest price got the work. This is the heart of American capitalism. Why would an American business pay more money for the same work done in the US that can get done for less abroad. In a more socialist economy, government would pressure the business to hire American workers. In a more capitalist economy, government would support free market principals allowing the business to shift the work abroad to maximize profits. Siding with free market principals vs socialism is not a win win proposition.

Possibly because it is in our national interests to have a solid manufacturing base here for strategic purposes. What if it got to the point where all the anti-viral drugs were mainly manufactured in Communist China. Oops. We may have discovered and designed, but it appears, Communist China already makes the majority of anti-viral drugs for us. Not impressive at the moment, is it?

That kinda goes with the territory. If you allow private businesses to make decisions on what's best for their bottom line, they are going to buy from the lowest cost provider, even thou it's China.
BTW, antivirals are manufactured in a number of countries including the US. Both India and China tend to concentrate their manufacturing on high volume low cost generics. The US, UK, and EU countries concentrated on more high end products.

Good to know. I was just referring to articles lately saying most come from Communist China, like this one:
Where Your Drugs Come From: 90% of Many Common Drugs Made in China; FDA has Lost Control




American consumers have no idea that the majority of the over-the-counter drugs they buy come from China, where there are few regulations. The increasing dependence on China for active pharmaceutical ingredients and nutritional supplements is of growing concern. China is the world's largest manufacturer of bulk drugs and nutritional supplements and is now exporting a large portion of its production to the United States.

Where Your Drugs Come From: 90% of Many Common Drugs Made in China; FDA has Lost Control – American Jobs Alliance

The FDA conducts about 1000 inspections a year on foreign drug manufacturing facilities. This is about twice the number of inspections they do on US facilities. This is in addition to quality control inspections done by the US buyer of the drugs and those of other countries. Most all of these drugs are sold in a number countries, many of which have their own requirements which may include inspections. Drug recalls on prescription drugs are rare compared to other products. I have not seen anything to indicate that drugs manufactured in the US are any safer than those manufactured abroad. The companies that make these drugs are typically very large and supplying many countries including the country they are located in.

The real problem is that this kind of percentage of our drug supply went over there in the first place. Not exactly a labor intensive process. The usual cheap labor reason, not applying. Neither does the atmospheric pollution justification. I freely admit, I have no clue why so much of American drug supplies are manufactured in Communist China. Not in our best interests and hard to think it ever was.

It's kind of a long story.
Like a lot of businesses in late 20th, century the pharmaceutical sector sought to cut overhead through mergers and elimination of middle management, etc which did increased profits significantly. The drive to reduce costs in the early 21st century drove manufacturing abroad. At that time most of our drugs came from Europe, Mexico, and the US. Also at this time, the demand for low cost pharmaceuticals was exploding in third world countries. This is when the drug companies discovery the potential of manufacturing in China and then India. Small manufacturing plants in China that were making OTC products began manufacturing prescription drugs. Demand throughout world for low cost drugs drove nearly all manufacturing to China and then India. The plants became gigantic and their large scale production made it impossible for developed nations to compete.

About 10 years ago, the major buyers in the US began consolidating. Their buying power was so great that they dictate prices to the manufactures pushing prices even lower which forced even more production to China. Today, the market is so consolidated that just four of these power buyers control over 90% of generic drug purchasing for the entire country. The same is happen but to lesser extent with brand name drugs.

The bottom line here is that pharmaceutical manufacturing in the US and Europe is limited to high end brand name drugs and this is very unlikely to change. Americans love being able to buy generics for $4 or $5 instead $50 or $60 or more. The drive to lower the cost of healthcare would make it almost impossible for goverment to tax these imports and drive the prices up, particularity in light of the fact, that pharmaceutical manufacturing is so highly automated that it would create relatively few jobs and the investment cost would be huge.

Opinion: Why Can't America Make Its Own Medicine Anymore?

The coronavirus outbreak is a good time to ask why our leaders sat by as so much of the US pharmaceutical industry was shipped abroad.

www.buzzfeednews.com

That is a really good, informative post! At the same time though, a highly automated production facility with few employees and postential for large ROI if favored by the government sounds right up alley for an existing American Drug company spin off. If the Communist Chinese can produce a $5 generic of a $50 name brand drug at a profit, than an American company should also be able to, unless they are determined not to compete with the name brand American product or forbidden by some law.

Thanks
I would suspect that the company would still need price protection from the Chinese then the volume would be lower because it would not be able to compete in foreign markets.

If the concern is that the Chinese might cut off our supply of drugs, that would not happen but the price might be higher because we might have to buy those drugs through other countries that are importing from China. In reality, Chinese would simple raise price but not so much that we would go elsewhere to obtain them. If the price was too far out of line, India, Pakistan or some other low cost providers would move into the market. Making most drugs is not rocket science, developing them is. Making them at a low cause is the challenge.

Agreed. I would have no problem with price protection, due to strategic interests in medical production. As for cost of production, I see very little difference in the long run. High speed production is here already and applied to everything from Pringles to Coca Cola. Mixing and loading capsule does not sound intimidating.

When I say the plants are automated, I don't mean they are run by just a few workers. The largest plants in China employ thousands of workers. One of the major reasons for the low prices is their huge volume. China and India supply almost all the low cost generics to whole world. If the US producers had a higher price then the government could tax the Chinese imports to protect these producers but their products would be too expensive to sell abroad.

I don't think we would ever have to worry about not being able to get the drugs we need, we just might have to pay a higher price.

You are all over this thing, that really I was not even aware of until Corona hit. Saw you location. Are you there in connection with that industry, the government or would it be better I didn't ask?

No, but I have been to China a number of times on business. I can tell you that what most Americans seem to think about the Chinese people is mostly wrong. The government stays pretty much out of private business, although when I was there, the government levied a lot fees and taxes on business. I understand that's been reduced a lot. Most Chinese I dealt with spoke English but knew next nothing about the US. There seem to be far less regulations on business in China compared to the US. However for an American doing business in China that is not the case. The relationship between people and the government seemed rather strange to me. In spike of having almost no political freedoms, and a government notorious for human rights abuse, the people seemed very satisfied with the government. I never once got the impression that anyone was in fear of the government. I actually think most people felt a great deal of pride in the government. Employment is not much different than the US other than than wages are a lot lower compared to the US. Education is extremely important in China and it's not just having a degree. You're expected to demonstration your skills. Workers seem to change jobs quite often even for very small increases in pay.

Interesting perspective. I have never been to a communist country, never considered even visiting one, and still won't.

 

[Flopper]

China up close: Xi fears Japan-led manufacturing exodus from China

The year of the metal rat returns every 60 years -- and brings calamity with it

asia.nikkei.com

In Zhongnanhai, the area in central Beijing where leaders of the Chinese Communist Party and the state government have their offices, "there are now serious concerns over foreign companies withdrawing from China," a Chinese economic source said. "What has particularly been talked about is the clause in Japan's emergency economic package that encourages (and funds) the re-establishment of supply chains."


**** you China!

Let’s eat Sushi, NOT BATS!

They should be very afraid. It was foolish for the world, particularly the US to outsource majority of industrial production to the Communist Chinese in the first place. Maybe corona will be a wake up call., but kinda doubt it actually.

In regard to outsourcing, the decisions were made not by government but by individual businesses. Whoever provide the best product at the lowest price got the work. This is the heart of American capitalism. Why would an American business pay more money for the same work done in the US that can get done for less abroad. In a more socialist economy, government would pressure the business to hire American workers. In a more capitalist economy, government would support free market principals allowing the business to shift the work abroad to maximize profits. Siding with free market principals vs socialism is not a win win proposition.

Possibly because it is in our national interests to have a solid manufacturing base here for strategic purposes. What if it got to the point where all the anti-viral drugs were mainly manufactured in Communist China. Oops. We may have discovered and designed, but it appears, Communist China already makes the majority of anti-viral drugs for us. Not impressive at the moment, is it?

That kinda goes with the territory. If you allow private businesses to make decisions on what's best for their bottom line, they are going to buy from the lowest cost provider, even thou it's China.
BTW, antivirals are manufactured in a number of countries including the US. Both India and China tend to concentrate their manufacturing on high volume low cost generics. The US, UK, and EU countries concentrated on more high end products.

Good to know. I was just referring to articles lately saying most come from Communist China, like this one:
Where Your Drugs Come From: 90% of Many Common Drugs Made in China; FDA has Lost Control




American consumers have no idea that the majority of the over-the-counter drugs they buy come from China, where there are few regulations. The increasing dependence on China for active pharmaceutical ingredients and nutritional supplements is of growing concern. China is the world's largest manufacturer of bulk drugs and nutritional supplements and is now exporting a large portion of its production to the United States.

Where Your Drugs Come From: 90% of Many Common Drugs Made in China; FDA has Lost Control – American Jobs Alliance

The FDA conducts about 1000 inspections a year on foreign drug manufacturing facilities. This is about twice the number of inspections they do on US facilities. This is in addition to quality control inspections done by the US buyer of the drugs and those of other countries. Most all of these drugs are sold in a number countries, many of which have their own requirements which may include inspections. Drug recalls on prescription drugs are rare compared to other products. I have not seen anything to indicate that drugs manufactured in the US are any safer than those manufactured abroad. The companies that make these drugs are typically very large and supplying many countries including the country they are located in.

The real problem is that this kind of percentage of our drug supply went over there in the first place. Not exactly a labor intensive process. The usual cheap labor reason, not applying. Neither does the atmospheric pollution justification. I freely admit, I have no clue why so much of American drug supplies are manufactured in Communist China. Not in our best interests and hard to think it ever was.

It's kind of a long story.
Like a lot of businesses in late 20th, century the pharmaceutical sector sought to cut overhead through mergers and elimination of middle management, etc which did increased profits significantly. The drive to reduce costs in the early 21st century drove manufacturing abroad. At that time most of our drugs came from Europe, Mexico, and the US. Also at this time, the demand for low cost pharmaceuticals was exploding in third world countries. This is when the drug companies discovery the potential of manufacturing in China and then India. Small manufacturing plants in China that were making OTC products began manufacturing prescription drugs. Demand throughout world for low cost drugs drove nearly all manufacturing to China and then India. The plants became gigantic and their large scale production made it impossible for developed nations to compete.

About 10 years ago, the major buyers in the US began consolidating. Their buying power was so great that they dictate prices to the manufactures pushing prices even lower which forced even more production to China. Today, the market is so consolidated that just four of these power buyers control over 90% of generic drug purchasing for the entire country. The same is happen but to lesser extent with brand name drugs.

The bottom line here is that pharmaceutical manufacturing in the US and Europe is limited to high end brand name drugs and this is very unlikely to change. Americans love being able to buy generics for $4 or $5 instead $50 or $60 or more. The drive to lower the cost of healthcare would make it almost impossible for goverment to tax these imports and drive the prices up, particularity in light of the fact, that pharmaceutical manufacturing is so highly automated that it would create relatively few jobs and the investment cost would be huge.

Opinion: Why Can't America Make Its Own Medicine Anymore?

The coronavirus outbreak is a good time to ask why our leaders sat by as so much of the US pharmaceutical industry was shipped abroad.

www.buzzfeednews.com

That is a really good, informative post! At the same time though, a highly automated production facility with few employees and postential for large ROI if favored by the government sounds right up alley for an existing American Drug company spin off. If the Communist Chinese can produce a $5 generic of a $50 name brand drug at a profit, than an American company should also be able to, unless they are determined not to compete with the name brand American product or forbidden by some law.

Thanks
I would suspect that the company would still need price protection from the Chinese then the volume would be lower because it would not be able to compete in foreign markets.

If the concern is that the Chinese might cut off our supply of drugs, that would not happen but the price might be higher because we might have to buy those drugs through other countries that are importing from China. In reality, Chinese would simple raise price but not so much that we would go elsewhere to obtain them. If the price was too far out of line, India, Pakistan or some other low cost providers would move into the market. Making most drugs is not rocket science, developing them is. Making them at a low cause is the challenge.

Agreed. I would have no problem with price protection, due to strategic interests in medical production. As for cost of production, I see very little difference in the long run. High speed production is here already and applied to everything from Pringles to Coca Cola. Mixing and loading capsule does not sound intimidating.

When I say the plants are automated, I don't mean they are run by just a few workers. The largest plants in China employ thousands of workers. One of the major reasons for the low prices is their huge volume. China and India supply almost all the low cost generics to whole world. If the US producers had a higher price then the government could tax the Chinese imports to protect these producers but their products would be too expensive to sell abroad.

I don't think we would ever have to worry about not being able to get the drugs we need, we just might have to pay a higher price.

You are all over this thing, that really I was not even aware of until Corona hit. Saw you location. Are you there in connection with that industry, the government or would it be better I didn't ask?

No, but I have been to China a number of times on business. I can tell you that what most Americans seem to think about the Chinese people is mostly wrong. The government stays pretty much out of private business, although when I was there, the government levied a lot fees and taxes on business. I understand that's been reduced a lot. Most Chinese I dealt with spoke English but knew next nothing about the US. There seem to be far less regulations on business in China compared to the US. However for an American doing business in China that is not the case. The relationship between people and the government seemed rather strange to me. In spike of having almost no political freedoms, and a government notorious for human rights abuse, the people seemed very satisfied with the government. I never once got the impression that anyone was in fear of the government. I actually think most people felt a great deal of pride in the government. Employment is not much different than the US other than than wages are a lot lower compared to the US. Education is extremely important in China and it's not just having a degree. You're expected to demonstration your skills. Workers seem to change jobs quite often even for very small increases in pay.

Interesting perspective. I have never been to a communist country, never considered even visiting one, and still won't.

Other than China, I have never been to any other Communist country. I had a chance to go to Cuba not long ago but it didn't work out.

Over the years I mentioned going to China, and when I shared my experience many people seem to think I'm lying, or a Communist. That's when I decide that most Americans have a rather distorted view of the country. It seems many people's opinion of the Chinese people has been formed by propaganda that came out of the mid 20th century, a peasant squatting by the road with his rice bowl in hand and enslaved masses serving the Communist government. That may have been true 50 or 60 years ago, I don't know. Today most of the country is defined as middle class. To be middle class in China today which is about 60% of the population, means you would make enough money to afford shelter, food, and have some disposable income. You wouldn't be able to afford a car so you would either walk, ride buses, or bike. You most probably would work rather long hours 45 to 50 hours a week, would live in a very small apartment by US standards, eat a lot of meals out, watch movies either on TV or in theaters, and probably be taking some kind of educational course. If you were an upper middle class worker you could afford a car or vacations abroad or a nice apartment. Very few people accumulate wealth during their life. Where 50 years ago, 100% of the people were employed in the public sector, only about 20% are today. Most people have far less interest in politics than Americans. Only 6% of the population are members of the communist party. Also, the Chinese outlook on life and their philosophies are a lot different than most Americans. The government espouses state atheism but has become very tolerate of religion. About half the population are atheist and the remainder claims a half dozen different religions.

Because I was born and raised in America, I would never want to live in China. It is too different but it is an interest place to visit.

 

[Asclepias]

I find it profoundly amusing that no liberals think it’s a good that China will lose some manufacturing over this.

Why is that, do you guys think, specifically?

My only conclusion is that liberals hate America and anything good for America is perceived by liberals as being bad.

I could give a **** what manufacturing China loses. I dont live there. I hope you dont think they will make the same items in the US at the same price do you?

 

[Flopper]

I find it profoundly amusing that no liberals think it’s a good that China will lose some manufacturing over this.

Why is that, do you guys think, specifically?

My only conclusion is that liberals hate America and anything good for America is perceived by liberals as being bad.

I could give a **** what manufacturing China loses. I dont live there. I hope you dont think they will make the same items in the US at the same price do you?

China's loses are not America's gains. A survey by the American Chamber of Commerce revealed Americans are buying 12% less from China. Most of that business is going to other Asian countries such as Vietnam, Taiwan, Bangladesh or South Korea. Only 6% of that business has returned to the US. Importers that elected to buy American stated that factors other than the tariffs were responsible for shifting from China to the US. The primary reason state with staying with Chinese imports was, "It's not easy to find suppliers outside of China that can manufacture the same goods with the same quality and for a cheaper price.

 

[ColonelAngus]

I find it profoundly amusing that no liberals think it’s a good that China will lose some manufacturing over this.

Why is that, do you guys think, specifically?

My only conclusion is that liberals hate America and anything good for America is perceived by liberals as being bad.

I could give a **** what manufacturing China loses. I dont live there. I hope you dont think they will make the same items in the US at the same price do you?

China's loses are not America's gains. A survey by the American Chamber of Commerce revealed Americans are buying 12% less from China. Most of that business is going to other Asian countries such as Vietnam, Taiwan, Bangladesh or South Korea. Only 6% of that business has returned to the US. Importers that elected to buy American stated that factors other than the tariffs were responsible for shifting from China to the US. The primary reason state with staying with Chinese imports was, "It's not easy to find suppliers outside of China that can manufacture the same goods with the same quality and for a cheaper price.

We need another strategic partner to manufacture our shit.

 

[Flopper]

I find it profoundly amusing that no liberals think it’s a good that China will lose some manufacturing over this.

Why is that, do you guys think, specifically?

My only conclusion is that liberals hate America and anything good for America is perceived by liberals as being bad.

I could give a **** what manufacturing China loses. I dont live there. I hope you dont think they will make the same items in the US at the same price do you?

China's loses are not America's gains. A survey by the American Chamber of Commerce revealed Americans are buying 12% less from China. Most of that business is going to other Asian countries such as Vietnam, Taiwan, Bangladesh or South Korea. Only 6% of that business has returned to the US. Importers that elected to buy American stated that factors other than the tariffs were responsible for shifting from China to the US. The primary reason state with staying with Chinese imports was, "It's not easy to find suppliers outside of China that can manufacture the same goods with the same quality and for a cheaper price.

We need another strategic partner to manufacture our shit.

A lot easier said than done.

 

[Asclepias]

I find it profoundly amusing that no liberals think it’s a good that China will lose some manufacturing over this.

Why is that, do you guys think, specifically?

My only conclusion is that liberals hate America and anything good for America is perceived by liberals as being bad.

I could give a **** what manufacturing China loses. I dont live there. I hope you dont think they will make the same items in the US at the same price do you?

China's loses are not America's gains. A survey by the American Chamber of Commerce revealed Americans are buying 12% less from China. Most of that business is going to other Asian countries such as Vietnam, Taiwan, Bangladesh or South Korea. Only 6% of that business has returned to the US. Importers that elected to buy American stated that factors other than the tariffs were responsible for shifting from China to the US. The primary reason state with staying with Chinese imports was, "It's not easy to find suppliers outside of China that can manufacture the same goods with the same quality and for a cheaper price.

I agree its not necessarily americas gain. I know that means higher prices here in the US for the same or lower quality if manufactured here in the US. However, there are other asian countries like south korea, taiwan, or the philippines that could take up the slack.

 

[Flopper]

I find it profoundly amusing that no liberals think it’s a good that China will lose some manufacturing over this.

Why is that, do you guys think, specifically?

My only conclusion is that liberals hate America and anything good for America is perceived by liberals as being bad.

I could give a **** what manufacturing China loses. I dont live there. I hope you dont think they will make the same items in the US at the same price do you?

China's loses are not America's gains. A survey by the American Chamber of Commerce revealed Americans are buying 12% less from China. Most of that business is going to other Asian countries such as Vietnam, Taiwan, Bangladesh or South Korea. Only 6% of that business has returned to the US. Importers that elected to buy American stated that factors other than the tariffs were responsible for shifting from China to the US. The primary reason state with staying with Chinese imports was, "It's not easy to find suppliers outside of China that can manufacture the same goods with the same quality and for a cheaper price.

I agree its not necessarily americas gain. I know that means higher prices here in the US for the same or lower quality if manufactured here in the US. However, there are other asian countries like south korea, taiwan, or the philippines that could take up the slack.

If it only results in higher prices and lower quality without bringing jobs back to America, then what has it accomplished?

 

[Asclepias]

I find it profoundly amusing that no liberals think it’s a good that China will lose some manufacturing over this.

Why is that, do you guys think, specifically?

My only conclusion is that liberals hate America and anything good for America is perceived by liberals as being bad.

I could give a **** what manufacturing China loses. I dont live there. I hope you dont think they will make the same items in the US at the same price do you?

China's loses are not America's gains. A survey by the American Chamber of Commerce revealed Americans are buying 12% less from China. Most of that business is going to other Asian countries such as Vietnam, Taiwan, Bangladesh or South Korea. Only 6% of that business has returned to the US. Importers that elected to buy American stated that factors other than the tariffs were responsible for shifting from China to the US. The primary reason state with staying with Chinese imports was, "It's not easy to find suppliers outside of China that can manufacture the same goods with the same quality and for a cheaper price.

I agree its not necessarily americas gain. I know that means higher prices here in the US for the same or lower quality if manufactured here in the US. However, there are other asian countries like south korea, taiwan, or the philippines that could take up the slack.

If it only results in higher prices and lower quality without bringing jobs back to America, then what has it accomplished?

It would only result in higher prices and lower quality if the jobs were brought back to the US. If the jobs went elsewhere, say S.Korea, then it would only punish China.

 

[Flopper]

I find it profoundly amusing that no liberals think it’s a good that China will lose some manufacturing over this.

Why is that, do you guys think, specifically?

My only conclusion is that liberals hate America and anything good for America is perceived by liberals as being bad.

I could give a **** what manufacturing China loses. I dont live there. I hope you dont think they will make the same items in the US at the same price do you?

China's loses are not America's gains. A survey by the American Chamber of Commerce revealed Americans are buying 12% less from China. Most of that business is going to other Asian countries such as Vietnam, Taiwan, Bangladesh or South Korea. Only 6% of that business has returned to the US. Importers that elected to buy American stated that factors other than the tariffs were responsible for shifting from China to the US. The primary reason state with staying with Chinese imports was, "It's not easy to find suppliers outside of China that can manufacture the same goods with the same quality and for a cheaper price.

I agree its not necessarily americas gain. I know that means higher prices here in the US for the same or lower quality if manufactured here in the US. However, there are other asian countries like south korea, taiwan, or the philippines that could take up the slack.

If it only results in higher prices and lower quality without bringing jobs back to America, then what has it accomplished?

It would only result in higher prices and lower quality if the jobs were brought back to the US. If the jobs went elsewhere, say S.Korea, then it would only punish China.

The goal should be to change behavior which rarely happens when attempting to punish a nation. Though punishment of a 6 year old may result in a change of behavior it rarely works with nations. The reason for this is that the leadership in the targeted nation can not be seen to cow down before another power. Ask yourself, what did we accomplish in Cuba after over 50 years of punishing economic sanctions or 30 years of sanctions against Iran or the punishing provisions against Germany in the Treaty of Versailles.