Healthcare Monopoly

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Any claims that a government run option won't become a monopoly or that "competition is always a good thing" are complete nonsense. The fact is that a private healthcare provider can't possibly compete with a government run option. Let's look at the United States Postal Service, Amtrak, and the recent Cash for Clunkers program as examples. Any private business run as poorly as the USPS or Amtrak would have shut its doors long ago and quit being a burden on society, but because they're government run they can run at huge losses for as long as the government funnels our money into them and forces private competition out of the market. Cash for Clunkers proves the adage that "there's nothing so permanent as a temporary government program." After burning through $1 billion in a week the Cash for Clunkers program got more funding from the government to continue subverting market forces.

The point is that a government run healthcare option will be able to run at a devastating loss for years whereas a private option couldn't possibly do so. The government will simply be able to dump taxpayer money into the public option indefinitely while they undercut all of the private options, inevitably forcing them out of business.

I hope those vaunted anti-trust laws apply to the government option, but I won't hold my breath.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Yeah, it's interesting that the gubamint will not allow some mergers to prevent what it calls a monopoly but will gladly practice a monopoly for itself.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Yeah, it's interesting that the gubamint will not allow some mergers to prevent what it calls a monopoly but will gladly practice a monopoly for itself.

Well the only actual monopolies are government created, because they're the only ones in any position to actually create a monopoly. The Standard Oil and Microsoft "monopolies" are all myths.

 

[editec]

I completely agree that private insurance companies can't possibly compete with a government system.

Government systems (like medicade and medicare) are much more efficeintly run than private insurance companies are right now.

 

[Old Rocks]

You people are defending the worse ran Health Care System in the world. We pay the most and get the least results of any industrial nation in the world. Not only that, even little Costa Rica, hardly an industrial nation, exceeds us in all categories of health care. And there are, indeed, people going to Costa Rica, Americans included, to get medical care.

Our Health Care System works very well for the wealthy and those whose skills are valued by industry. For the rest, it fails miserably.

 

[GHook93]

...you have to be an idiot to want status quo. That seems to be what Rush, Hannity and all the others are calling for (and yes I listen to them). They try to put on little twists like private health accounts, but they come up with little solutions to:

(1) Medical Bills (even for the insured) being one of the largest causes of BK in America.
(2) The Burden on Small-Businesses: Small business get overly burdened by expensive healthcare, preventing companies from opening, making them less able to compete and survive against large ones.
(3) Pre-existing Restrictions Riders: Sorry KKK, but this is a serious problem. Private insurance companies will give you insurance, but not for the type of condition you need it for!
(4) The Uninsured and the under-insured! Yes they make up the bulk for America!
(5) Insurance for children: Say what you want, but these individuals are at the mercy what their parents get. They can't by themselves better their situation!
(6) Illegals getting Free Healthcare: Pelosi's plan doesn't address it, but neither does the current system. Why not a treat (even for a common cold) and then deport rule! I see nothing wrong with that.
(7) The Large Administration Costs for Doctors: You have internal collection, a team to fight with insurers, paper people etc. The costs are a major burden on the doctors that gets pushed onto us.
(8) Unpaid doctor bills: All hospitals have expensive yet ineffect internal collection teams. These teams, along with the unpaid bills are a major burden on the hospital, again these bills get pushed onto the people able to pay the bills!
(9) The Unemployed: People become unemployed and they lose their health insurance at that point (and please don't state COBRA, (1) COBRA is so damn expensive that its unaffordable and (2) you lost you income are you really going to be able to afford the same insurance that is now 4x what is was last month)
(10) The High Expense of Medical School:
(11) The High Cost of Malipractice Insurance:
(12) The High Cost of Medical malipractice insurance; however fairness to the injured still needs to be highly considered!

 

[auditor0007]

...you have to be an idiot to want status quo. That seems to be what Rush, Hannity and all the others are calling for (and yes I listen to them). They try to put on little twists like private health accounts, but they come up with little solutions to:

(1) Medical Bills (even for the insured) being one of the largest causes of BK in America.
(2) The Burden on Small-Businesses: Small business get overly burdened by expensive healthcare, preventing companies from opening, making them less able to compete and survive against large ones.
(3) Pre-existing Restrictions Riders: Sorry KKK, but this is a serious problem. Private insurance companies will give you insurance, but not for the type of condition you need it for!
(4) The Uninsured and the under-insured! Yes they make up the bulk for America!
(5) Insurance for children: Say what you want, but these individuals are at the mercy what their parents get. They can't by themselves better their situation!
(6) Illegals getting Free Healthcare: Pelosi's plan doesn't address it, but neither does the current system. Why not a treat (even for a common cold) and then deport rule! I see nothing wrong with that.
(7) The Large Administration Costs for Doctors: You have internal collection, a team to fight with insurers, paper people etc. The costs are a major burden on the doctors that gets pushed onto us.
(8) Unpaid doctor bills: All hospitals have expensive yet ineffect internal collection teams. These teams, along with the unpaid bills are a major burden on the hospital, again these bills get pushed onto the people able to pay the bills!
(9) The Unemployed: People become unemployed and they lose their health insurance at that point (and please don't state COBRA, (1) COBRA is so damn expensive that its unaffordable and (2) you lost you income are you really going to be able to afford the same insurance that is now 4x what is was last month)
(10) The High Expense of Medical School:
(11) The High Cost of Malipractice Insurance:
(12) The High Cost of Medical malipractice insurance; however fairness to the injured still needs to be highly considered!

Good to see someone here thinks that we need some serious changes. The main reason we are currently faced with a possible government takeover of our healthcare is that too many people have supported the status quo for too long. The argument that everything is fine as it is now wreaks of complete idiocy.

Number 10 on your list is also a much bigger issue than most will consider. With the cost of Medical School being so high, we have not increased the pool of doctors, and this is also driving up costs as it limits competetion.

 

[GHook93]

...you have to be an idiot to want status quo. That seems to be what Rush, Hannity and all the others are calling for (and yes I listen to them). They try to put on little twists like private health accounts, but they come up with little solutions to:

(1) Medical Bills (even for the insured) being one of the largest causes of BK in America.
(2) The Burden on Small-Businesses: Small business get overly burdened by expensive healthcare, preventing companies from opening, making them less able to compete and survive against large ones.
(3) Pre-existing Restrictions Riders: Sorry KKK, but this is a serious problem. Private insurance companies will give you insurance, but not for the type of condition you need it for!
(4) The Uninsured and the under-insured! Yes they make up the bulk for America!
(5) Insurance for children: Say what you want, but these individuals are at the mercy what their parents get. They can't by themselves better their situation!
(6) Illegals getting Free Healthcare: Pelosi's plan doesn't address it, but neither does the current system. Why not a treat (even for a common cold) and then deport rule! I see nothing wrong with that.
(7) The Large Administration Costs for Doctors: You have internal collection, a team to fight with insurers, paper people etc. The costs are a major burden on the doctors that gets pushed onto us.
(8) Unpaid doctor bills: All hospitals have expensive yet ineffect internal collection teams. These teams, along with the unpaid bills are a major burden on the hospital, again these bills get pushed onto the people able to pay the bills!
(9) The Unemployed: People become unemployed and they lose their health insurance at that point (and please don't state COBRA, (1) COBRA is so damn expensive that its unaffordable and (2) you lost you income are you really going to be able to afford the same insurance that is now 4x what is was last month)
(10) The High Expense of Medical School:
(11) The High Cost of Malipractice Insurance:
(12) The High Cost of Medical malipractice insurance; however fairness to the injured still needs to be highly considered!

Good to see someone here thinks that we need some serious changes. The main reason we are currently faced with a possible government takeover of our healthcare is that too many people have supported the status quo for too long. The argument that everything is fine as it is now wreaks of complete idiocy.

Number 10 on your list is also a much bigger issue than most will consider. With the cost of Medical School being so high, we have not increased the pool of doctors, and this is also driving up costs as it limits competetion.

I would like to say this. I don't like the Pelosi/Reid/Obama Plan, but I also HATE our current system! But many of the pundits make it seem its a black and white issue. We either keep our current system or go to socialized healthcare. I think there can be a compromise, where some of the issues mentioned can be addressed!

 

[GHook93]

Good to see someone here thinks that we need some serious changes. The main reason we are currently faced with a possible government takeover of our healthcare is that too many people have supported the status quo for too long. The argument that everything is fine as it is now wreaks of complete idiocy.

Number 10 on your list is also a much bigger issue than most will consider. With the cost of Medical School being so high, we have not increased the pool of doctors, and this is also driving up costs as it limits competetion.

I see the cost of education in general is going to blow over! A bubble that burst and will continue to burst is the education loan industry. I work for a credit agency. I personally used to work with many student loan companies. I have no left (all out of business). There are no private student loan companies anymore. There are only FAFSA programs (Federally backed). Yet these loans don't cover roughly half. Private loans were needed to cover the rest. Yet with no one ever paying their private loans, big banks stopped offering them and student loan companies went belly up!

But the problem lies in colleges that increase tuitions every year to far exceed inflation. Something has to go!

But I digress! If any healthcare plan is theoritically going have doctors make less (but still a good amount of money), then being saddled with a monster load of debt (most of any profession) has to be changed.

Obama talked about a few years out of college in the public sector doing basically charity work to get some of the loan forgiven.

Law school has a very unattractive offer. 10 yrs in the public sector, while you pay for your student loans, at the end of 10 yrs your remaining balance gets forgiven! A worthless plan that helps very very few people.

I say free tuition to accredited institutions for ALL enrollees. However, for 3 yrs (yes only see yrs), unless you get an excemption, you must work in public (lower pay) position. 3 yrs is not bad for an education that cost upwards of $250K

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

When did I say I wanted the status quo? I think there definitely needs to be healthcare reform. However, it's in the opposite direction towards a more competitive market, not a government takeover. We need to get government out of the healthcare business all together. A free market's natural progression is towards higher quality and lower prices, it's when government gets involved that we see higher prices and stagnation of quality.

 

[GHook93]

When did I say I wanted the status quo? I think there definitely needs to be healthcare reform. However, it's in the opposite direction towards a more competitive market, not a government takeover. We need to get government out of the healthcare business all together. A free market's natural progression is towards higher quality and lower prices, it's when government gets involved that we see higher prices and stagnation of quality.

I honestly I am not that concerned with what you want. I care more about what I hear about people who can make decisions in this country. 6 yrs in Congress and I saw nothing that put forward, even though the problem was still there.

But you like others state you want more competition! How do we get that buddy? Deregulation of the industry! Deregulation of the industry worked wonders for the credit industry. What will happen with deregulations is you will have more companies doing more of the same, with the big guys still dictating things. Sorry but the health insurance industry is one area in which I think regulations are needed!

In most fiscal cases I take the conservative approach, but just saying deregulate is the answer to everything is a careless way to get things done!

Healthcare is an unique product/service! Its different than purchasing a car, getting a mortgage, buying a TV, getting a serious, etc. It needs to be treated as such!

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

When did I say I wanted the status quo? I think there definitely needs to be healthcare reform. However, it's in the opposite direction towards a more competitive market, not a government takeover. We need to get government out of the healthcare business all together. A free market's natural progression is towards higher quality and lower prices, it's when government gets involved that we see higher prices and stagnation of quality.

I honestly I am not that concerned with what you want. I care more about what I hear about people who can make decisions in this country. 6 yrs in Congress and I saw nothing that put forward, even though the problem was still there.

But you like others state you want more competition! How do we get that buddy? Deregulation of the industry! Deregulation of the industry worked wonders for the credit industry. What will happen with deregulations is you will have more companies doing more of the same, with the big guys still dictating things. Sorry but the health insurance industry is one area in which I think regulations are needed!

In most fiscal cases I take the conservative approach, but just saying deregulate is the answer to everything is a careless way to get things done!

Healthcare is an unique product/service! Its different than purchasing a car, getting a mortgage, buying a TV, getting a serious, etc. It needs to be treated as such!

Actually it's no different. The free market approach is superior to the government intervention approach. You say you don't like the way it is now, but you're willing to add more government to the mix when it's already highly government regulated. It makes no sense. More government can't solve the problems that too much government has created.

 

[GHook93]

When did I say I wanted the status quo? I think there definitely needs to be healthcare reform. However, it's in the opposite direction towards a more competitive market, not a government takeover. We need to get government out of the healthcare business all together. A free market's natural progression is towards higher quality and lower prices, it's when government gets involved that we see higher prices and stagnation of quality.

I honestly I am not that concerned with what you want. I care more about what I hear about people who can make decisions in this country. 6 yrs in Congress and I saw nothing that put forward, even though the problem was still there.

But you like others state you want more competition! How do we get that buddy? Deregulation of the industry! Deregulation of the industry worked wonders for the credit industry. What will happen with deregulations is you will have more companies doing more of the same, with the big guys still dictating things. Sorry but the health insurance industry is one area in which I think regulations are needed!

In most fiscal cases I take the conservative approach, but just saying deregulate is the answer to everything is a careless way to get things done!

Healthcare is an unique product/service! Its different than purchasing a car, getting a mortgage, buying a TV, getting a serious, etc. It needs to be treated as such!

Actually it's no different. The free market approach is superior to the government intervention approach. You say you don't like the way it is now, but you're willing to add more government to the mix when it's already highly government regulated. It makes no sense. More government can't solve the problems that too much government has created.

I said it was regulated, but highly. The insurance companies have more than enough power to anal rape anyone of us and then deny coverage when we go to the hospital to sew up our no-no holes!

I wouldn't mind more competition in the private sector, if it didn't mean lowering the bar to allow more and more insurance companies to fuck more and more of us!

 

[Jay Canuck]

 

[Jay Canuck]

Medical bills underlie 60 percent of U.S. bankrupts: study

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Medical bills are behind more than 60 percent of U.S. personal bankruptcies, U.S. researchers reported on Thursday in a report they said demonstrates that healthcare reform is on the wrong track.

More than 75 percent of these bankrupt families had health insurance but still were overwhelmed by their medical debts, the team at Harvard Law School, Harvard Medical School and Ohio University reported in the American Journal of Medicine.

"Unless you're Warren Buffett, your family is just one serious illness away from bankruptcy," Harvard's Dr. David Himmelstein, an advocate for a single-payer health insurance program for the United States, said in a statement.

"For middle-class Americans, health insurance offers little protection," he added.

CANCELED COVERAGE

"Nationally, a quarter of firms cancel coverage immediately when an employee suffers a disabling illness; another quarter do so within a year," the report reads.

Medical bills underlie 60 percent of U.S. bankrupts: study | U.S. | Reuters

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

If the government got out of the way then free competition would drive medical care costs down.

 

[auditor0007]

...you have to be an idiot to want status quo. That seems to be what Rush, Hannity and all the others are calling for (and yes I listen to them). They try to put on little twists like private health accounts, but they come up with little solutions to:

(1) Medical Bills (even for the insured) being one of the largest causes of BK in America.
(2) The Burden on Small-Businesses: Small business get overly burdened by expensive healthcare, preventing companies from opening, making them less able to compete and survive against large ones.
(3) Pre-existing Restrictions Riders: Sorry KKK, but this is a serious problem. Private insurance companies will give you insurance, but not for the type of condition you need it for!
(4) The Uninsured and the under-insured! Yes they make up the bulk for America!
(5) Insurance for children: Say what you want, but these individuals are at the mercy what their parents get. They can't by themselves better their situation!
(6) Illegals getting Free Healthcare: Pelosi's plan doesn't address it, but neither does the current system. Why not a treat (even for a common cold) and then deport rule! I see nothing wrong with that.
(7) The Large Administration Costs for Doctors: You have internal collection, a team to fight with insurers, paper people etc. The costs are a major burden on the doctors that gets pushed onto us.
(8) Unpaid doctor bills: All hospitals have expensive yet ineffect internal collection teams. These teams, along with the unpaid bills are a major burden on the hospital, again these bills get pushed onto the people able to pay the bills!
(9) The Unemployed: People become unemployed and they lose their health insurance at that point (and please don't state COBRA, (1) COBRA is so damn expensive that its unaffordable and (2) you lost you income are you really going to be able to afford the same insurance that is now 4x what is was last month)
(10) The High Expense of Medical School:
(11) The High Cost of Malipractice Insurance:
(12) The High Cost of Medical malipractice insurance; however fairness to the injured still needs to be highly considered!

Good to see someone here thinks that we need some serious changes. The main reason we are currently faced with a possible government takeover of our healthcare is that too many people have supported the status quo for too long. The argument that everything is fine as it is now wreaks of complete idiocy.

Number 10 on your list is also a much bigger issue than most will consider. With the cost of Medical School being so high, we have not increased the pool of doctors, and this is also driving up costs as it limits competetion.

I would like to say this. I don't like the Pelosi/Reid/Obama Plan, but I also HATE our current system! But many of the pundits make it seem its a black and white issue. We either keep our current system or go to socialized healthcare. I think there can be a compromise, where some of the issues mentioned can be addressed!

This is the type of discussion we need. I'm so tired of everyone who has one simple answer to this massively complex problem. Unfortunately, most of our elected representatives mirror those who post here.