He is the truth, a 60% on China is not enough.

[shockedcanadian]

Trump threatened a.60% tariff but is that really enough? Will his donors prevent him from doing even that? Some are suggesting that his donors will talk him out of it, claim it is just a negotiating tactic. A 100-200%.tariff would decimate Chinas economy and it is probably what would be required.

 

[Thunk]

Is not enough for what? Would be required for what?

China does things like devalue its own currency...a tariff, in that case, is just what the doctor ordered to level the playing field.

Some times they dump alot of cheap steel on the global market...that's another good time for a tariff.

But "enough" would depend on the event and its economic severity.

 

[JoeB131]

Trump threatened a.60% tariff but is that really enough? Will his donors prevent him from doing even that? Some are suggesting that his donors will talk him out of it, claim it is just a negotiating tactic. A 100-200%.tariff would decimate Chinas economy and it is probably what would be required.

There's a whole lot of problems with this thinking.

The first is that you really think that China pays a tariff. They don't. The end consumer does.

Second, the US isn't as big a player in China's economy as you think it is. We only represent 13% of their exports. 500 billion in an economy of 18 Trillion.

Third, the Chinese have already outwitted a lot of the last batch of Tariffs Trump put on by processing the goods though Latin American countries we have trade deals with.


Fourth, the US imports a lot of stuff INTO China and we can expect retalitory tariffs on those. About 151 Billion worth of stuff imported from the US into China. Except most of what we sell them they can find alternative sources for. Remember in 2020, Trump had to pay US Farmers for losses of pork and soy products because China took their businss elsewhere.

 

[Hellokitty]

There's a whole lot of problems with this thinking.

The first is that you really think that China pays a tariff. They don't. The end consumer does.

Second, the US isn't as big a player in China's economy as you think it is. We only represent 13% of their exports. 500 billion in an economy of 18 Trillion.

View attachment 1046611

Third, the Chinese have already outwitted a lot of the last batch of Tariffs Trump put on by processing the goods though Latin American countries we have trade deals with.


Fourth, the US imports a lot of stuff INTO China and we can expect retalitory tariffs on those. About 151 Billion worth of stuff imported from the US into China. Except most of what we sell them they can find alternative sources for. Remember in 2020, Trump had to pay US Farmers for losses of pork and soy products because China took their businss elsewhere.

1st when China devalues their currency they are paying for the tariffs,
2nd Europe didn't learn last time and is already talking about devaluing their currency in response to low output from China.
3rd the tariffs can be applies to Latin American countries.
4th retaliatory tariffs will make goods in the US cheaper.

 

[IM2]

Trump threatened a.60% tariff but is that really enough? Will his donors prevent him from doing even that? Some are suggesting that his donors will talk him out of it, claim it is just a negotiating tactic. A 100-200%.tariff would decimate Chinas economy and it is probably what would be required.

Tell this to your own Prime Minister. Your economy won't be fucked up by your idea.

 

[Captain Caveman]

There's a whole lot of problems with this thinking.

The first is that you really think that China pays a tariff. They don't. The end consumer does.

Second, the US isn't as big a player in China's economy as you think it is. We only represent 13% of their exports. 500 billion in an economy of 18 Trillion.

View attachment 1046611

Third, the Chinese have already outwitted a lot of the last batch of Tariffs Trump put on by processing the goods though Latin American countries we have trade deals with.


Fourth, the US imports a lot of stuff INTO China and we can expect retalitory tariffs on those. About 151 Billion worth of stuff imported from the US into China. Except most of what we sell them they can find alternative sources for. Remember in 2020, Trump had to pay US Farmers for losses of pork and soy products because China took their businss elsewhere.

All this cheap junk from China has created a world problem, throw away societies.

Things made in UK used to last, bombproof, solid. Now it's tacky crap from China that lasts a handful of uses, at best. And the irony is, folk whining about China on the world's stage in terms of being a potential military threat, then in the same breath, they fund China by using them. I try to avoid Chinese junk, sometimes you can't get away from the crap.

 

[JoeB131]

1st when China devalues their currency they are paying for the tariffs,
2nd Europe didn't learn last time and is already talking about devaluing their currency in response to low output from China.
3rd the tariffs can be applies to Latin American countries.
4th retaliatory tariffs will make goods in the US cheaper.

1 - No, China devalues it's currency to keep their products competitive... it doesn't mean that they are paying tarrif. Sure, China devalued the Yuan, by a whopping 1.9%.

2- Meaningless to my point. China is most of the EU's biggest trading partner now.

3- We have trade agreements with these countries. You can't keep throwing out trade agreements because your industry is inefficient.

4 - No, they won't. Holy fucking shit, you winguts don't understand economics at all. If anything, a tariff will encourage US Manufacturers to NOT improve pricing. If they know they just have to get right below the tariff, what's the incentive for process improvement or price competitiveness?

All this cheap junk from China has created a world problem, throw away societies.

Things made in UK used to last, bombproof, solid. Now it's tacky crap from China that lasts a handful of uses, at best. And the irony is, folk whining about China on the world's stage in terms of being a potential military threat, then in the same breath, they fund China by using them. I try to avoid Chinese junk, sometimes you can't get away from the crap.

Well, let's look at that one.

When I was growing up in the 1970's, we had a TV that used tubes. It broke down frequently. I used to have to go to the store on the corner with a small bag of tubes to test them to see which one had burned out.

Now, compare that to a TV made in Asia. I owned a TV from Toshiba I bought about 1990. It didn't start crapping out until the Mid-Aughts. Survived two moves. I bought a second CRT TV that never broke down. The only reason I replaced it was most TV shows were being made in Hi-Def and wide screen. (I remember watching new epsides of shows where they blocked the actors so far apart in a conversation you could only see the space between them on screen.) The new Wide Screen I have has been going strong since 2013 or so, no issue. Only reason why I might be replacing it this year is for a bigger screen.

So, yeah, a lot of stuff is "Throw away" now in that it lasts longer than the technology and it's not practical to repair it.

 

[petro]

Biden already went further and went 100% on Chinese EV's...
WashingtonCNN —
The Biden administration said Friday that it has finalized tariff hikes on certain Chinese-made products that the president first announced in May.

The tariff rate will go up to 100% on electric vehicles, to 50% on solar cells and to 25% on electrical vehicle batteries, critical minerals, steel, aluminum, face masks and ship-to-shore cranes beginning September 27, according to the US Trade Representative’s Office.

Tariff hikes on other products, including semiconductor chips, are set to take effect over the next two years.

 

[Hellokitty]

1 - No, China devalues it's currency to keep their products competitive... it doesn't mean that they are paying tarrif. Sure, China devalued the Yuan, by a whopping 1.9%.

2- Meaningless to my point. China is most of the EU's biggest trading partner now.

3- We have trade agreements with these countries. You can't keep throwing out trade agreements because your industry is inefficient.

4 - No, they won't. Holy fucking shit, you winguts don't understand economics at all. If anything, a tariff will encourage US Manufacturers to NOT improve pricing. If they know they just have to get right below the tariff, what's the incentive for process improvement or price competitiveness?



Well, let's look at that one.

When I was growing up in the 1970's, we had a TV that used tubes. It broke down frequently. I used to have to go to the store on the corner with a small bag of tubes to test them to see which one had burned out.

View attachment 1046730

Now, compare that to a TV made in Asia. I owned a TV from Toshiba I bought about 1990. It didn't start crapping out until the Mid-Aughts. Survived two moves. I bought a second CRT TV that never broke down. The only reason I replaced it was most TV shows were being made in Hi-Def and wide screen. (I remember watching new epsides of shows where they blocked the actors so far apart in a conversation you could only see the space between them on screen.) The new Wide Screen I have has been going strong since 2013 or so, no issue. Only reason why I might be replacing it this year is for a bigger screen.

So, yeah, a lot of stuff is "Throw away" now in that it lasts longer than the technology and it's not practical to repair it.

Problem with your argument is what I laid out is what happen during TRUMP's 1st term.
Your argument from economist who went into hysterics telling people a can of campbell soup was going to cost $15 because of TRUMP aluminum tariffs didn't happen.

 

[JoeB131]

Problem with your argument is what I laid out is what happen during TRUMP's 1st term.
Your argument from economist who went into hysterics telling people a can of campbell soup was going to cost $15 because of TRUMP aluminum tariffs didn't happen.

Trump's first term, he had people who knew what they were doing keeping him from doing anything too stupid.

And even then, he managed to fuck things up. His China Tariffs did more to contribute to inflation than anything Biden did. Not to mention when the Chinese stopped buying US Agricultural products, Trump had to spend billions to keep the farmers in business.

Trade wars are stupid. They never work. If your businesses can't compete, they need to be revamped so they can.

 

[Moonglow]

Trump threatened a.60% tariff but is that really enough? Will his donors prevent him from doing even that? Some are suggesting that his donors will talk him out of it, claim it is just a negotiating tactic. A 100-200%.tariff would decimate Chinas economy and it is probably what would be required.

Is Trump going to put Trump and his family products made in China on the tariff list? How about Elon's?

 

[Hellokitty]

Trade wars are stupid. They never work. If your businesses can't compete, they need to be revamped so they can.

Right the US can't compete with government over regulation, giveaway trade deals, illegal immigration and stupid wars.

 

[JoeB131]

Right the US can't compete with government over regulation, giveaway trade deals, illegal immigration and stupid wars.

Sure we can. We get rid of Eight Figure CEO salaries for companies that are failing, to start.

Here's the ugly little truth. Manufacturing jobs didn't disappear because of trade. They disappeared because of process improvement and automation.

 

[Hellokitty]

Sure we can. We get rid of Eight Figure CEO salaries for companies that are failing, to start.

Here's the ugly little truth. Manufacturing jobs didn't disappear because of trade. They disappeared because of process improvement and automation.

How about the government start by getting rid of sending billions to Ukraine and countries flooding our country will illegals before they start dictating salaries for private companies.

 

[Mac-7]

There's a whole lot of problems with this thinking.

The first is that you really think that China pays a tariff. They don't. The end consumer does.

Second, the US isn't as big a player in China's economy as you think it is. We only represent 13% of their exports. 500 billion in an economy of 18 Trillion.

View attachment 1046611

Third, the Chinese have already outwitted a lot of the last batch of Tariffs Trump put on by processing the goods though Latin American countries we have trade deals with.


Fourth, the US imports a lot of stuff INTO China and we can expect retalitory tariffs on those. About 151 Billion worth of stuff imported from the US into China. Except most of what we sell them they can find alternative sources for. Remember in 2020, Trump had to pay US Farmers for losses of pork and soy products because China took their businss elsewhere.

The stats used here are chinese

Accept them at face value at your own risk

We cant cut off trade with china overnight

but it is important to reduce it steadily

 

[Mac-7]

Sure we can. We get rid of Eight Figure CEO salaries for companies that are failing, to start.

Here's the ugly little truth. Manufacturing jobs didn't disappear because of trade. They disappeared because of process improvement and automation.

Wrong

Jobs went to china because of cheap labor and US workplace laws that do not exist in china

 

[JoeB131]

The stats used here are chinese

Accept them at face value at your own risk

We cant cut off trade with china overnight

but it is important to reduce it steadily

I'd trust China before I trust anything Trump says.

No, we don't need to cut off trade, we need to make our own industries more efficient.

 

[JoeB131]

Wrong

Jobs went to china because of cheap labor and US workplace laws that do not exist in china

wrong.

I've worked in manufacturing for the last 24 years, for a variety of companies, including one British and one Japanese company. (Ironically, they were probably be better ones I've worked for.)

If you worked in manufacturing, you'd know that process improvement is the biggest drive they have. Lean. Six Sigma, GMP, it's all geared towards the same goal. Making more product with less people.

I went to a corrugated box plant once, in the mid Teens... almost everything was automated, very few humans on the floor.

 

[Mac-7]

I'd trust China before I trust anything Trump says.

No, we don't need to cut off trade, we need to make our own industries more efficient.

We need to limit trade with china

And so do our allies

 

[Mac-7]

Lean. Six Sigma, GMP, it's all geared towards the same goal. Making more product with less people.

I dont have a problem with that

But we have lost plenty of industries to china and it makes America vulnerable