CDZ Have to follow flip flop rules, if you want to reach success

[Figaro]

I think you all understand what I mean. Flip flop, changes of positions or views is like a main principle of the game of the majority of politicians.
Let's look at our lovely black guy, just for example.
Obama was against gay marriage in the time before he ran for higher office.

President Barack Obama s shifting stance on gay marriage PolitiFact

Obama had stated his support for legalizing gay marriage on a 1996 questionnaire while running for the Illinois state Senate. But he said repeatedly on the campaign trail in 2008 that he believed marriage should be between a man and a woman.

Wanna success? Change your positions depending on the situation

 

[Skull Pilot]

i find it funny that voters insist that people who are inflexible and rigid in their thinking are the best choice for leaders.

 

[Roadrunner]

i find it funny that voters insist that people who are inflexible and rigid in their thinking are the best choice for leaders.

I find it funny that somebody can be against suckin' a dick before they become for suckin' a dick.

 

[martybegan]

I think you all understand what I mean. Flip flop, changes of positions or views is like a main principle of the game of the majority of politicians.
Let's look at our lovely black guy, just for example.
Obama was against gay marriage in the time before he ran for higher office.

President Barack Obama s shifting stance on gay marriage PolitiFact

Obama had stated his support for legalizing gay marriage on a 1996 questionnaire while running for the Illinois state Senate. But he said repeatedly on the campaign trail in 2008 that he believed marriage should be between a man and a woman.

Wanna success? Change your positions depending on the situation

This is not "changing position." It is outright lying for political gain.

John D. Rockerfeller changed his position on prohibition. He still thought it was a good idea, but realized it would never work. Obama LIED.

 

[JoeB131]

This is not "changing position." It is outright lying for political gain.

John D. Rockerfeller changed his position on prohibition. He still thought it was a good idea, but realized it would never work. Obama LIED.

Do you really think there were people out there who voted for Obama over McCain because of the gay marriage issue?

Obama's position was the one a lot of Republicans and Democrats were pushing at the time when only one state legalized gay marriage. That civil unions were an acceptable alternative.

But upon further review, they really were the equivlent to Colored Water Fountains.

 

[martybegan]

This is not "changing position." It is outright lying for political gain.

John D. Rockerfeller changed his position on prohibition. He still thought it was a good idea, but realized it would never work. Obama LIED.

Do you really think there were people out there who voted for Obama over McCain because of the gay marriage issue?

Obama's position was the one a lot of Republicans and Democrats were pushing at the time when only one state legalized gay marriage. That civil unions were an acceptable alternative.

But upon further review, they really were the equivlent to Colored Water Fountains.

If he went balls to the wall on the gay marriage issue it would have probably lowered his black vote, not percentage wise, but turnout wise. More than likely not enough to cause him to lose.

But a lie is still a Lie. Tell me honestly, do you think he was telling the truth in 2008 when he said "Marriage is between a man and a woman"?

And its not the colored water fountains thing all over again. A civil union and a marriage would be different only in name. Colored water fountains were often lesser quality, lesser number, and hidden in the back.

 

[JoeB131]

If he went balls to the wall on the gay marriage issue it would have probably lowered his black vote, not percentage wise, but turnout wise. More than likely not enough to cause him to lose.

But a lie is still a Lie. Tell me honestly, do you think he was telling the truth in 2008 when he said "Marriage is between a man and a woman"?

And its not the colored water fountains thing all over again. A civil union and a marriage would be different only in name. Colored water fountains were often lesser quality, lesser number, and hidden in the back.

Two points, because this is CDZ, I'll try to be polite.

One, I don't think that blacks would have stayed home on him on this issue. The moment was too momentous. An African American on a national ticket? They didn't stay home on him in 2012 when his position "evolved".

Honestly, I think in 2008, he was pretty straightfoward. He was against DOMA because it was bad law, he was against Don't Ask Don't Tell.

A difference in name is a difference. Its' not the same thing, it doesn't hold the same importance in society. Clearly, separate but equal never is.

 

[JoeMoma]

Many politicians would sell their souls to be elected.

 

[martybegan]

If he went balls to the wall on the gay marriage issue it would have probably lowered his black vote, not percentage wise, but turnout wise. More than likely not enough to cause him to lose.

But a lie is still a Lie. Tell me honestly, do you think he was telling the truth in 2008 when he said "Marriage is between a man and a woman"?

And its not the colored water fountains thing all over again. A civil union and a marriage would be different only in name. Colored water fountains were often lesser quality, lesser number, and hidden in the back.

Two points, because this is CDZ, I'll try to be polite.

One, I don't think that blacks would have stayed home on him on this issue. The moment was too momentous. An African American on a national ticket? They didn't stay home on him in 2012 when his position "evolved".

Honestly, I think in 2008, he was pretty straightfoward. He was against DOMA because it was bad law, he was against Don't Ask Don't Tell.

A difference in name is a difference. Its' not the same thing, it doesn't hold the same importance in society. Clearly, separate but equal never is.

You didn't answer the question. Politifact has a good summary of his meandering position on the topic. I am talking about the interview where he said explicitly marriage was between a man and a woman.

President Barack Obama s shifting stance on gay marriage PolitiFact

If it would not have had such an impact in 2008 (or 2012 for that matter) why only now, when he is no longer up for election, is he changing his position?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

i find it funny that voters insist that people who are inflexible and rigid in their thinking are the best choice for leaders.

I find it funny that somebody can be against suckin' a dick before they become for suckin' a dick.

Yeah...thats not something most people have a change of heart about.

 

[JoeB131]

You didn't answer the question. Politifact has a good summary of his meandering position on the topic. I am talking about the interview where he said explicitly marriage was between a man and a woman.

President Barack Obama s shifting stance on gay marriage PolitiFact

If it would not have had such an impact in 2008 (or 2012 for that matter) why only now, when he is no longer up for election, is he changing his position?

So what? Again, changing from, "Well, I'll go along with civil unions" to "Well, we should call it marriage" isn't that big of a flip flop. or least it isn't when you guys are trying to get the gays to drink from the colored water fountain.

Second, he changed his position before the election of 2012. So if there was going to be a big fallout, it would have happened then. There wasn't. He only got 70% of hte gay vote in 2008, but he got 90% of it in 2012 based on ending DADT and supporting gay marriage.

By comparison, he only got 26% of the White Evangelical vote compared to 20% in 2012. So if he were truly "scheming", he'd have been better off embracing gay marriage in 2008.

 

[martybegan]

You didn't answer the question. Politifact has a good summary of his meandering position on the topic. I am talking about the interview where he said explicitly marriage was between a man and a woman.

President Barack Obama s shifting stance on gay marriage PolitiFact

If it would not have had such an impact in 2008 (or 2012 for that matter) why only now, when he is no longer up for election, is he changing his position?

So what? Again, changing from, "Well, I'll go along with civil unions" to "Well, we should call it marriage" isn't that big of a flip flop. or least it isn't when you guys are trying to get the gays to drink from the colored water fountain.

Second, he changed his position before the election of 2012. So if there was going to be a big fallout, it would have happened then. There wasn't. He only got 70% of hte gay vote in 2008, but he got 90% of it in 2012 based on ending DADT and supporting gay marriage.

By comparison, he only got 26% of the White Evangelical vote compared to 20% in 2012. So if he were truly "scheming", he'd have been better off embracing gay marriage in 2008.

You just can't admit he lied, can you? And in 2012 he was still spouting the "Marriage for straights, something else for gays" line.

So basically either HE was advocating for your 'colored water fountains" out of moral conviction, or he was lying. Which one is it?

 

[JoeB131]

You just can't admit he lied, can you? And in 2012 he was still spouting the "Marriage for straights, something else for gays" line.

So basically either HE was advocating for your 'colored water fountains" out of moral conviction, or he was lying. Which one is it?

who said it was an either or. Nor did he still advocate civil unions by 2012. He did come out for straight up marriage.

Sorry, guy, I just can't get worked up about a non-issue with a slight degree of difference.

 

[martybegan]

You just can't admit he lied, can you? And in 2012 he was still spouting the "Marriage for straights, something else for gays" line.

So basically either HE was advocating for your 'colored water fountains" out of moral conviction, or he was lying. Which one is it?

who said it was an either or. Nor did he still advocate civil unions by 2012. He did come out for straight up marriage.

Sorry, guy, I just can't get worked up about a non-issue with a slight degree of difference.

Fine, he was for it in 2012, and there was a drop in Black turnout. Correlation does not equal causation, but the numbers are there.

I guess you are OK with politicians lying as long as it fits your personal view of the Narrative. But it doesn't change the fact the he lied in 2008 about being against gay marriage.

 

[JoeB131]

Fine, he was for it in 2012, and there was a drop in Black turnout. Correlation does not equal causation, but the numbers are there.

There was a drop in ALL Turnout. if you weren't in a swing state, your voter participation rate dropped. 5 million people who came out in 2008 didn't bother in 2012, because they figured their votes didn't count.

I guess you are OK with politicians lying as long as it fits your personal view of the Narrative. But it doesn't change the fact the he lied in 2008 about being against gay marriage.

Or that he changed his mind. you know, people do that. Intelligent ones, anyway.

 

[martybegan]

Fine, he was for it in 2012, and there was a drop in Black turnout. Correlation does not equal causation, but the numbers are there.

There was a drop in ALL Turnout. if you weren't in a swing state, your voter participation rate dropped. 5 million people who came out in 2008 didn't bother in 2012, because they figured their votes didn't count.

I guess you are OK with politicians lying as long as it fits your personal view of the Narrative. But it doesn't change the fact the he lied in 2008 about being against gay marriage.

Or that he changed his mind. you know, people do that. Intelligent ones, anyway.

Twice? The simpler explanation is that he lied, because he supported it before he was against it before deciding to support it.

Just admit he lied, its not like it matters to you.

 

[JoeB131]

Twice? The simpler explanation is that he lied, because he supported it before he was against it before deciding to support it.

Just admit he lied, its not like it matters to you.

I've changed my mind on the death penalty about six times over the course of my life. because it isn't an easy question.

This isn't an easy question, either.

So he changed his mind on civil unions vs. Marriage, which you guys keep claiming isn't a big deal.

Until the black guy does it.

 

[NLT]

Obama
"I was against gay marriage before figured out I was already in one""

 

[martybegan]

Twice? The simpler explanation is that he lied, because he supported it before he was against it before deciding to support it.

Just admit he lied, its not like it matters to you.

I've changed my mind on the death penalty about six times over the course of my life. because it isn't an easy question.

This isn't an easy question, either.

So he changed his mind on civil unions vs. Marriage, which you guys keep claiming isn't a big deal.

Until the black guy does it.

So you can't admit he lied. Nice to know.

And bringing up the race card means you lose the argument, like you always do.

 

[JoeB131]

So you can't admit he lied. Nice to know.

And bringing up the race card means you lose the argument, like you always do.

Naw, it's just hilarious to see you guys get horribly upset about whether the black guy really meant it when he said he favored Civil Unions but not marriage....

But you don't show anywhere near this level of outrage that his predecessor said there were Weapons of Mass Destruction and 4500 people died.

I'd think the latter is far more serious than the former, don't you?