Zone1 Hating Catholics (or the Original Church) is not from God

[1miseryindex]

Hatred has its place. It is good to hate evil. If you think the Catholic Church is evil (and most Protestants do because their pastors are always telling them it is), then it is understandable that you hate the RCC. But if you suspect or even begin to suspect that maybe what you've been taught all your life about the RCC is not true...

different story.

 

[1miseryindex]

If you hate Catholics because you hate Catholicism

you are not a Christian, objectively speaking. I have NEVER hated anyone, never refused to listen to someone, just because he or she is of a different Christian faith. True, I don't like listening to Mormons or JWs because they are not only WAY off on many things (heresy) but they refuse to admit that they could be... and that wears on a person.. But if someone in some other Christian community presents some truth to me re Scripture or what have you, I listen.

"My sheep hear My voice.."

Jesus speaks through many different kinds of people..

 

[IM2]

The Catholic Church is not the original church. Jesus didn't say God would send a Pope to intercede for us with God.

 

[1miseryindex]

The Catholic Church is not the original church.

Yes, it is.

By the way, don't change the topic, which is about hating Catholics.

but just for the sake of argument, which "church" do you say is the Original?

 

[LibertyKid]

The original church started with Christ. That original church, in case we don't understand history was still, at that time, VERY jewish. This is why Paul and Peter clashed in regarding if Gentiles should adhere to Old Covenant laws and traditions. What is funny is that the Catholic church SHOULD look to Paul as their first Pope, not Peter because Paul is more Catholic historically. Peter wanted Jews and Gentiles to still be very Jewish in traditions where Paul was like... F those traditions, Gentiles don't need to follow those Old Covenant tenants. But, here we are.

 

[1miseryindex]

The original church started with Christ. That original church, in case we don't understand history was still, at that time, VERY jewish. This is why Paul and Peter clashed in regarding if Gentiles should adhere to Old Covenant laws and traditions. What is funny is that the Catholic church SHOULD look to Paul as their first Pope, not Peter because Paul is more Catholic historically.

I guess you "forgot" that Peter was the one chosen to be the first pope by Christ himself?

"Thou art Peter and on this rock, I will build My Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it."

 

[LibertyKid]

I guess you "forgot" that Peter was the one chosen to be the first pope by Christ himself?

"Thou art Peter and on this rock, I will build My Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it."

And you completely missed my point and you're putting words in Jesus' mouth.

 

[1miseryindex]

And you completely missed my point and you're putting words in Jesus' mouth.

Well, let's see if the Protestants do that (not that the following is the ONLY answer I have.. not hardly)

hmmmmm

I recall this weird notion of

Once saved always saved... words found NOWHERE in Scripture (nor is the concept of such there).

No, we are told to WORK (OMG, the 4 letter word)

WORK out our salvation with

OMG again

fear and trembling (Phil 2:12)

 

[LibertyKid]

Well, let's see if the Protestants do that (not that the following is the ONLY answer I have.. not hardly)

hmmmmm

I recall this weird notion of

Once saved always saved... words found NOWHERE in Scripture (nor is the concept of such there).

No, we are told to WORK (OMG, the 4 letter word)

WORK out our salvation with

OMG again

fear and trembling (Phil 2:12)

This response is still ignoring my point.
Catholic church claims Peter as the first Pope. If this were correct as the RCC claims, than the RCC would be messianic Jews as Peter was still a.... Jew and argued with Paul about jewish traditions for Gentiles. Paul is more RCC than Peter was because the RCC is gentile. But keep claiming Peter as your first Pope.

 

[hadit]

I guess you "forgot" that Peter was the one chosen to be the first pope by Christ himself?

"Thou art Peter and on this rock, I will build My Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it."

I think you've forgotten what Peter had literally just said before that.

Matthew 16

13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”
14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not [g]prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth [h]will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
20 Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.
21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.
22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, [i]“Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”
23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are [j]an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”

Yeshua's church is built on the fact that He is the Christ. Without that, it's just a Jewish sect.
And Peter is some Pope. He makes the statement on which Yeshua says He will build His church, then turns around and allows Satan to speak through him, very soon after supposedly being made Pope. Since the Pope is supposed to be infallible, how can he be so wrong?

 

[hadit]

Well, let's see if the Protestants do that (not that the following is the ONLY answer I have.. not hardly)

hmmmmm

I recall this weird notion of

Once saved always saved... words found NOWHERE in Scripture (nor is the concept of such there).

No, we are told to WORK (OMG, the 4 letter word)

WORK out our salvation with

OMG again

fear and trembling (Phil 2:12)

Of course, works are important. Show me your faith without works and I'll show you my faith BY my works. Works, however, are not what grants a person salvation, lest any man should boast. IOW, when you stand before God at the judgement, you can list all of the wonderful things you did in His name, but without a relationship, He will simply say, "Depart from me, you evildoers, I never knew you". It's all about who you know, not what you do.

Let's put it in terms we all can understand. A lifelong bachelor has a certain lifestyle in which he routinely picks up girls from bars and takes them home for anonymous sex, kicking them out in the morning and never seeing them again. He meets and falls in love with a girl.

1. Do we expect him to stop picking up girls because he is in love and wants his girl to know that she is special to him, or do we expect him to continue picking up girls for one-night stands, not caring at all what she thinks?
2. Does him no longer picking up girls make him be in love with the one girl, or do they tell us he's in love with the girl? IOW, does he stop picking up girls for one-night stands because he thinks that will make her fall in love with him, or does he stop doing it BECAUSE he is in love with her?

Thus it is with God. Nothing, and I repeat, nothing we can possibly do is ever good enough to earn salvation, nothing. Have I said there's nothing we can do? But when salvation is given to you after you accept it, there certainly should be behavior changes we see in your life that reflect the change in you. Instead of living for yourself alone, now you're living for Him, and that makes the difference.

 

[Meriweather]

Catholic church claims Peter as the first Pope. If this were correct as the RCC claims, than the RCC would be messianic Jews as Peter was still a.... Jew and argued with Paul about jewish traditions for Gentiles. Paul is more RCC than Peter was because the RCC is gentile. But keep claiming Peter as your first Pope.

Peter was a Jew. Peter was a Christian. Christ appointed Peter the keeper of the keys. When Judaism and Christianity separated, it might be said Christians 'claimed' Peter. Obviously, the Jews did not. Christians followed Peter's way who taught the way of Christ being one with God, a stumbling block for Jews.

Do you wish to "claim" Peter, too? There is enough of him to go around.

 

[LibertyKid]

Peter was a Jew. Peter was a Christian. Christ appointed Peter the keeper of the keys. When Judaism and Christianity separated, it might be said Christians 'claimed' Peter. Obviously, the Jews did not. Christians followed Peter's way who taught the way of Christ being one with God, a stumbling block for Jews.

Do you wish to "claim" Peter, too? There is enough of him to go around.

I believe one would want to claim "Jesus", not Peter or Paul. They were only vessels of the gospel at the time.

Some might say that Paul is more responsible for the overall growth of the Church than Peter. Peter certainly preached the sermon of his life on the day of Pentecost when 3000 came into the Judaic sect. However, the global growth is due to Paul.

The separation of the Church from Judaism might be an accidental effect of Paul's missionary journeys to the gentiles. Paul was still a jew and still observed the Jews traditions of the law. However, Paul understood that the laws did not save, thus why he didn't push gentiles to adhere to those same laws and rebuked Peter (the so called first RCC Pope) for trying to force gentiles into the same culinary restrictions and circumcision. I do believe that Peter understood and accepted the rebuke and didn't force Gentiles to the same "laws".

 

[Meriweather]

Some might say that Paul is more responsible for the overall growth of the Church than Peter. Peter certainly preached the sermon of his life on the day of Pentecost when 3000 came into the Judaic sect. However, the global growth is due to Paul.

Growth was due to the Apostles, of which Paul was one. Let's go back to the three thousand--many of whom may have had great influence as well. Paul is well known in later years because of his letters. Spoken words may have had just as great an influence--especially among those who weren't even aware of Paul in his day and age.

The separation of the Church from Judaism might be an accidental effect of Paul's missionary journeys to the gentiles. Paul was still a jew and still observed the Jews traditions of the law. However, Paul understood that the laws did not save, thus why he didn't push gentiles to adhere to those same laws and rebuked Peter (the so called first RCC Pope) for trying to force gentiles into the same culinary restrictions and circumcision. I do believe that Peter understood and accepted the rebuke and didn't force Gentiles to the same "laws".

Basically, Paul worked within the Noachide laws for God Fearers (what Jews called Gentiles who attended at the Temple of synagogues). Basically Peter and Paul came to agree that no one had to become a Jew to become a follower of Christ. Christianity was 'catholic'--open and welcoming to all, not just a chosen group.

I believe one would want to claim "Jesus", not Peter or Paul. They were only vessels of the gospel at the time.

Jesus is Lord. Peter and all other popes, are followers of Jesus, the Lord. As you know, Catholics embrace Jesus as Lord and God, not a follower of anyone.

 

[1miseryindex]

This response is still ignoring my point.
Catholic church claims Peter as the first Pope. If this were correct as the RCC claims, than the RCC would be messianic Jews as Peter was still a.... Jew and argued with Paul about jewish traditions for Gentiles. Paul is more RCC than Peter was because the RCC is gentile. But keep claiming Peter as your first Pope.

you are misguided. And it would take all day and half the next to even BEGIN to disabuse you of your false information

 

[1miseryindex]

Peter was a Jew. Peter was a Christian. Christ appointed Peter the keeper of the keys. When Judaism and Christianity separated, it might be said Christians 'claimed' Peter. Obviously, the Jews did not. Christians followed Peter's way who taught the way of Christ being one with God, a stumbling block for Jews.

Do you wish to "claim" Peter, too? There is enough of him to go around.

He also died by crucifixion like his Master. . even upside down!

a martyr for the Church of Christ. We need to pray to him today and every day to

SAVE OUR CHURCH

from Burgman et al

 

[hadit]

He also died by crucifixion like his Master. . even upside down!

a martyr for the Church of Christ. We need to pray to him today and every day to

SAVE OUR CHURCH

from Burgman et al

He's not listening. There is only ONE name in which we are to pray, and it's not Petra.

 

[surada]

I guess you "forgot" that Peter was the one chosen to be the first pope by Christ himself?

"Thou art Peter and on this rock, I will build My Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it."

There's no evidence that Peter was ever in Rome. You're talking about tradition.

 

[Libby von H]

Hatred has its place. It is good to hate evil. If you think the Catholic Church is evil (and most Protestants do because their pastors are always telling them it is), then it is understandable that you hate the RCC. But if you suspect or even begin to suspect that maybe what you've been taught all your life about the RCC is not true...

different story.

Very good....It commits the horrible sin of accusing RCC of evil will rather than just --- as Christians are told time and again in the Bible to do--- to only see error

And this excuses them from turning the world that needs Jesus to attacking fellow believers. The number of Protestant Popes I've met over the years is extraordinary

 

[forkintheroad7]

The Catholic Church is not the original church. Jesus didn't say God would send a Pope to intercede for us with God.

Yes, the CC was/is the original Church founded by Christ. I have studied history. The CC is the only one that goes back to the very beginning of Christian history. Study the Church Fathers and you will see this is so (assuming u know anything about Catholicism? Most people do not, even Catholics don't always know much).

Eucharist is there (in the early teachings)
Confession to a priest, etc