Hamas leader: Nations are recognizing Palestinian state due to ‘fruits of October 7’

[ShahdagMountains]

Because... you don't have one. You never really did. Judaism was never the dominant religion in the Levant, even before the Romans got tired of their nonsense and dispersed them.

Now, if America is so determined that there be a Jewish State, we should give them one of ours.. like Nebraska. Or Utah. Maybe Florida. Just displace all the Christians living there now. That would seem fair to me.

Utter asinine crap.

 

[JoeB131]

Utter asinine crap.

Nope, just pointing out the absurdity of our position.

We wouldn't give up our own land for the Jews, but we think the Palestinians should give up theirs.

 

[Shusha]

Nope, just pointing out the absurdity of our position.

We wouldn't give up our own land for the Jews, but we think the Palestinians should give up theirs.

Why should the Jewish people be forced to give up their land?

 

[JoeB131]

Why should the Jewish people be forced to give up their land?

Because it isn't their land. They stole it.

Now, because I'm not completely unreasonable, I would have no problem with a two-state solution that would fairly divide Palestine.

I don't think the Palestinians would go for it, you've murdered too many people they care about.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Because it isn't their land. They stole it.

Now, because I'm not completely unreasonable, I would have no problem with a two-state solution that would fairly divide Palestine.

I don't think the Palestinians would go for it, you've murdered too many people they care about.

Once again, nothing but bullshit from you. The so called Palestinians never had control of the land and there is no rational basis for claiming the Jews stole it from.

 

[JoeB131]

Once again, nothing but bullshit from you. The so called Palestinians never had control of the land and there is no rational basis for claiming the Jews stole it from.

Property ownership isn't a condition of citizenship.

If it were, we could disenfranchise 35% of the US population

 

[toomuchtime_]

Property ownership isn't a condition of citizenship.

If it were, we could disenfranchise 35% of the US population

Apparently you are as stupid as you are dishonest. Having control of the land has nothing to do with property ownership, and since the so called Palestinians never had control over the land, it could not have been stolen from them.

 

[Shusha]

Because it isn't their land. They stole it.

From where or what does the right to sovereign independence come from? If your objective argument is that the Arabs have a claim to self-determination leading to sovereign independence because they were living in that land and/or some of them would like (or have the right) to return to that land, my argument is that the Jewish people have the exact same claim. You keep trying to whisk away the Jewish claim with strawman arguments.

 

[JoeB131]

Apparently you are as stupid as you are dishonest. Having control of the land has nothing to do with property ownership, and since the so called Palestinians never had control over the land, it could not have been stolen from them.

Except they did have control of some land, the Jews stole it from them.

They are the indigenous people... the Zionists are the interlopers.

From where or what does the right to sovereign independence come from? If your objective argument is that the Arabs have a claim to self-determination leading to sovereign independence because they were living in that land and/or some of them would like (or have the right) to return to that land, my argument is that the Jewish people have the exact same claim. You keep trying to whisk away the Jewish claim with strawman arguments.

Because it's based on religious stupidity and Western guilt.

The only reason Israel exists is because the West felt bad about its inability to stop Hitler from killing half of Europe's Jews.

They just didn't feel bad enough to give away their own land. Let's give away someone else's.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Except they did have control of some land, the Jews stole it from them.

They are the indigenous people... the Zionists are the interlopers.



Because it's based on religious stupidity and Western guilt.

The only reason Israel exists is because the West felt bad about its inability to stop Hitler from killing half of Europe's Jews.

They just didn't feel bad enough to give away their own land. Let's give away someone else's.

As always, you have nothing to post but more lies. The only land the so called Palestinians had control over before 1948 was land they privately owned.

Israel exists because the Jews who lived there exercised their right of self determination by accepting the UN's Partition Resolution and effectively defended it when the Arabs launched a war of Extermination against the new state of Israel.

"War of Extermination​

An October 11, 1947 report on the pan-Arab summit in the Lebanese town of Aley,[9] by Akhbar al-Yom‘s editor Mustafa Amin, contained an interview he held with Arab League secretary-general Azzam. Titled, “A War of Extermination,” the interview read as follows (translated by Efraim Karsh; all ellipses are in the original text):

Abdul Rahman Azzam Pasha spoke to me about the horrific war that was in the offing… saying:

“I personally wish that the Jews do not drive us to this war, as this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre[10] or the Crusader wars. I believe that the number of volunteers from outside Palestine will be larger than Palestine’s Arab population, for I know that volunteers will be arriving to us from [as far as] India, Afghanistan, and China to win the honor of martyrdom for the sake of Palestine … You might be surprised to learn that hundreds of Englishmen expressed their wish to volunteer in the Arab armies to fight the Jews.

“This war will be distinguished by three serious matters. First—faith: as each fighter deems his death on behalf of Palestine as the shortest road to paradise; second, [the war] will be an opportunity for vast plunder. Third, it will be impossible to contain the zealous volunteers arriving from all corners of the world to avenge the martyrdom of the Palestine Arabs, and viewing the war as dignifying every Arab and every Muslim throughout the world …"

Azzam's Genocidal Threat

Of the countless threats of violence, made by Arab and Palestinian leaders in the run up to and in the wake of the November 29, 1947 partition resolution, none has resonated more widely than the warning by Abdul Rahman Azzam, the Arab League's first

www.meforum.org

 

[ShahdagMountains]

Except they did have control of some land, the Jews stole it from them.

They are the indigenous people... the Zionists are the interlopers.



Because it's based on religious stupidity and Western guilt.

The only reason Israel exists is because the West felt bad about its inability to stop Hitler from killing half of Europe's Jews.

They just didn't feel bad enough to give away their own land. Let's give away someone else's.

You’re beyond all help.

 

[Shusha]

Because it's based on religious stupidity and Western guilt.

The only reason Israel exists is because the West felt bad about its inability to stop Hitler from killing half of Europe's Jews.

They just didn't feel bad enough to give away their own land. Let's give away someone else's.

Yep. As expected, you totally bounced off my point. What criteria gives rise to a right to self-determination in the form of sovereignty and statehood?

 

[ShahdagMountains]

Yep. As expected, you totally bounced off my point. What criteria gives rise to a right to self-determination in the form of sovereignty and statehood?

Being a terrorist seems a good place to start.

Keir Starmer seems to think so.

 

[Shusha]

Being a terrorist seems a good place to start.

Keir Starmer seems to think so.

As does Mark Carney. I'm embarrassed for my country.

 

[JoeB131]

As always, you have nothing to post but more lies. The only land the so called Palestinians had control over before 1948 was land they privately owned.

Israel exists because the Jews who lived there exercised their right of self determination by accepting the UN's Partition Resolution and effectively defended it when the Arabs launched a war of Extermination against the new state of Israel.

The UN had no business giving away Palestinian Land because they felt guilty about Hitler.

So here's the analogy I like to use. You live in a home that has been in your family for generations. Then one day, you find out someone has taken title to your home through mortgage fraud, and they throw you out into the street.

Then they "generously" let you live in the unheated garage.

Are you going to feel grateful to those people, or are you really going to resent them?

You’re beyond all help.

You're concession is duly noted.

Yep. As expected, you totally bounced off my point. What criteria gives rise to a right to self-determination in the form of sovereignty and statehood?

Actually having your own land that you've lived on for centuries. If you are an immigrant, you are a guest. If you are immigrant that starts demanding shit out of the people who are already there, then you are a really bad guest.

Being a terrorist seems a good place to start.

Keir Starmer seems to think so.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

The UN had no business giving away Palestinian Land because they felt guilty about Hitler.

So here's the analogy I like to use. You live in a home that has been in your family for generations. Then one day, you find out someone has taken title to your home through mortgage fraud, and they throw you out into the street.

Then they "generously" let you live in the unheated garage.

Are you going to feel grateful to those people, or are you really going to resent them?




You're concession is duly noted.


Actually having your own land that you've lived on for centuries. If you are an immigrant, you are a guest. If you are immigrant that starts demanding shit out of the people who are already there, then you are a really bad guest.


One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Oh that one.

Think you’re being original?

Yawn.

 

[JoeB131]

Oh that one.

Think you’re being original?

Yawn.

Still a great analogy.

I don't know why you are so keen to live next door to people who want to murder you.

That seems... stupid.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

Still a great analogy.

I don't know why you are so keen to live next door to people who want to murder you.

That seems... stupid.

You haven’t got a clue.

No point trying to explain anything to you.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The UN had no business giving away Palestinian Land because they felt guilty about Hitler.

So here's the analogy I like to use. You live in a home that has been in your family for generations. Then one day, you find out someone has taken title to your home through mortgage fraud, and they throw you out into the street.

Then they "generously" let you live in the unheated garage.

Are you going to feel grateful to those people, or are you really going to resent them?




You're concession is duly noted.


Actually having your own land that you've lived on for centuries. If you are an immigrant, you are a guest. If you are immigrant that starts demanding shit out of the people who are already there, then you are a really bad guest.


One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

As always nothing but lies from you ever. Both the Ottoman Empire and the British Empire kept careful records of land ownership and neither had any records of land being stolen from Arabs in Palestine by Jews, but they do have detailed records of large land sales by wealthy land owning Arab families to Jews. So the people already living in Palestine suffered no losses because of the arrival of Jewish immigrants.

The fact is that before 1948 the Arabs living in Palestine did not regard themselves as a distinct people, but only as Muslims and only about half identified even as Arabs. They were not seen by the Arab/Muslim world as a distinct people or by the rest of the world. They had no government of their own, no laws of their own, no culture of their own, which means they were not a people and therefore had no rights as a people, but only individual rights as provided by whatever power was in charge, Ottoman Turks or the British. So again, they suffered no losses because of the arrival of the Jewish immigrants.

Saying one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter is just plain stupid.

Terrorism is defined as, "the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a Government or civilian population in furtherance of political or social objectives."

So a freedom fighter can also be a terrorist. When you use that statement what you are saying is that no action can be so horrible, so savage, so bestial as to be unacceptable to you if the perpetrator believes he has a good reason for committing it.

 

[Shusha]

Actually having your own land that you've lived on for centuries.

Okay. The Jewish people have lived in that land for thousands of years. Check. Criteria met.