Guantanamo-a disgrace to the human race

[Annie]

and what do you have to show they are not being treated humanely? All I can find shows they are being treated well and many of those released say the same.

As far as solicitors go, they are same as POW's, to be held til the end of conflict. Don't really think that will happen, since the war may go on for over 20 years. I do not think they should fall within the civil courts, but something should happen before too long, (for me within say 3 years), in the military rhelm.

 

[t63094]

---------------------------------------------------------------------
posted by IzeWideOpen

You make some fair points but do you not think that they should at least be kept in human conditions with access to an independent soliciter whilst getting a fair trial?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I am of the opinion that physically, the POW's in Gitmo are in adequately humane conditions. Mentally, well, how comfortable do we want them? We need information.

As for an independent solicitor, until their case has a disposition (i.e., release, trial, whatever), what good is that going to do them??

 

[dijetlo]

Originally posted by Kathianne
and what do you have to show they are not being treated humanely? All I can find shows they are being treated well and many of those released say the same.

This is from Amnesty International. There has been an ongoing controversy about how they are treated.
The fact that the prisoners can be tried by military tribunal and executed is the single strongest reason for the prisoners being allowed a lawyer.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by dijetlo
This is from Amnesty International. There has been an ongoing controversy about how they are treated.
The fact that the prisoners can be tried by military tribunal and executed is the single strongest reason for the prisoners being allowed a lawyer.

All I see in there is sleep deprivation techniques and isolation from family and lawyers. Big deal. That's heaven compared to the way their respective countries treat POW's. Maiming, beating, beheading, slit throats, sleeping in feces, no food or water... They can keep them there for the next 50 years and I wouldn't care any more than I do now.

 

[DKSuddeth]

All I see in there is sleep deprivation techniques and isolation from family and lawyers. Big deal. That's heaven compared to the way their respective countries treat POW's. Maiming, beating, beheading, slit throats, sleeping in feces, no food or water... They can keep them there for the next 50 years and I wouldn't care any more than I do now.

So, instead of maintaining OUR own principles and honor in the face of those that have no concern otherwise, we should sink down to their level, even if its only a tiny bit?

We all lose part of our humanity when we can not be concerned with how we treat even the lowliest of our population.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
So, instead of maintaining OUR own principles and honor in the face of those that have no concern otherwise, we should sink down to their level, even if its only a tiny bit?

We all lose part of our humanity when we can not be concerned with how we treat even the lowliest of our population.

If we sunk to their level all the prisoners would be dead.

We are doing what is necessary to ensure that there are no repeats of 9/11, and I applaud those for their efforts thus far.

 

[DKSuddeth]

If we sunk to their level all the prisoners would be dead.

so, lowering our standards, even the slightest bit, seems to be fine with you. should we change how america conducts itself in ALL of its affairs then?

We are doing what is necessary to ensure that there are no repeats of 9/11, and I applaud those for their efforts thus far.

how many times have you seen the ben franklin quote? Does it mean anything at all? or is thier wisdom no longer applicable?

 

[IzeWideOpen]

How can the US of A complain about the terrible treatment of their POWs if they continue to treat others like this. The word Hypocracy springs to mind.

 

[jon_forward]

They are not p.o.w.'s, they are terrorist and are being treated as such. They should have thought about what they were doing before they got caught. we are not like france or germany, push us and get pushed back....if it would not hurt or kill so many...all the way back to the stone age. They either need to join the human race or face going the way of the dodo bird.

 

[IzeWideOpen]

Originally posted by jon_forward
They are not p.o.w.'s, they are terrorist and are being treated as such. They should have thought about what they were doing before they got caught. we are not like france or germany, push us and get pushed back....if it would not hurt or kill so many...all the way back to the stone age. They either need to join the human race or face going the way of the dodo bird.

I wasnt refuring to the poeple at guantanamo as p.o.w.'s but they are human beings and desurve to be treated like humans.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by IzeWideOpen
I wasnt refuring to the poeple at guantanamo as p.o.w.'s but they are human beings and desurve to be treated like humans.

They are being treated like humans. They get three meals a day, they get to practice their religion, they aren't tortured, they even get access to treasonous U.S. Army Islamic chapains. And all in the sunny Carribean! What else could a baby-killing terrorist scumbag want?

 

[jon_forward]

they may actually be better off at gitmo than in their country. If left upto myself, they would not be getting treated so nicely!

 

[nbdysfu]

Two questions:
How is this sleep deprivation carried out?

Is it done to all prisoners or just the most suspect?

 

[DKSuddeth]

by jon_forward

They are not p.o.w.'s, they are terrorist and are being treated as such.

Not so, they are being held and interrogated to DETERMINE if they are terrorists, enemy combatants, or neither. Those that are being released have been determined that they are neither, and/or, they have no usable intelligence. Personally, theres something inherently wrong with imprisoning people for months just to determine what they are.

 

[nbdysfu]

I can agree with that. I don't want our law enforcement to start looking like a bad rendition of Terry Gilliam's "Brazil"

But I don't know if anyone was exactly zipped out of their quiet and peaceful living room.

Was anyone not pulled from a battlefield, or other suspicious circumstance? Is there no disclosure of that information?

 

[Annie]

I don't find most of the 'findings' of AI all that credible. They seem to concentrate on those that most closely follow the rules. It took years for them to come out and say Palestinian suicide bombers were wrong.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Was anyone not pulled from a battlefield, or other suspicious circumstance? Is there no disclosure of that information?

There is almost NO disclosure on most things and very little on the rest. No names or accountings of how and why they were taken because the administration uses 'national security' reasons as well as using Gitmo like a loophole to avoid the law and the constitution.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
There is almost NO disclosure on most things and very little on the rest. No names or accountings of how and why they were taken because the administration uses 'national security' reasons as well as using Gitmo like a loophole to avoid the law and the constitution.

I'm not sure how the law and the constitution apply in this case, as the prison area is not the USA and the prisoners are not Americans.

With no disclosure, that means all the horror stories being displayed would just be hearsay.

Until such time that a suspected terrorist is cleared 500%, they should be sitting right where they are at.

 

[DKSuddeth]

I'm not sure how the law and the constitution apply in this case, as the prison area is not the USA and the prisoners are not Americans.

Hopefully, thats what the USSC will determine. Personally, ANY military base needs to be considered US territory, just like any embassy would.

With no disclosure, that means all the horror stories being displayed would just be hearsay.

Of course it could be nothing more than hearsay, so was the holocaust until we investigated it. Not that i'm saying we're gassing muslims in Gitmo, but I would much rather there be openness and honesty about it instead of all the BS rumor milling.

Until such time that a suspected terrorist is cleared 500%, they should be sitting right where they are at.

Now, what do we use to make the determination of a suspected terrorist? Like in my other posts, some of these young boys even have been detained for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Should they have to wait 12 months before our military beauracracy make the determination they aren't terrorists?


The detainee issue in Gitmo needs to be delved into deeply with a microscope, make things right, and then take the ones that we DO find to be terrorists, try them and punish them according to the judicial system we have in the US.

 

[nbdysfu]

I have to side with DK in that there should at least be some kind of disclosure about where and why the inmates were detained.

The fact that they aren't US citizens and aren't on u.s. soil alone shouldn't justify their being treated as P.O.W.

However there are probably significant tactical reasons for doing so in the cases of many of the inmates, convincing them to give up to interrogation without resorting to physical torture. If they were in a sustained battlefield or in an isolated location with others who were guilty, being in the wrong place at the wrong time is pretty self-inflicted.