Green Energy FAILURE... Full state in Australia in the dark....

[CrusaderFrank]

Did you know you cant restart the grid with just wind energy? I didnt....most likely the residents didnt either.
The South Australian black out — A grid on the edge. There were warnings that renewables made it vulnerable « JoNova

Jo Nova is hardly a credible source.

Lame. Facts inconvenient

The Warmers will huff and puff and force the grid back up

 

[Billy_Bob]

Did you know you cant restart the grid with just wind energy? I didnt....most likely the residents didnt either.
The South Australian black out — A grid on the edge. There were warnings that renewables made it vulnerable « JoNova

Jo Nova is hardly a credible source.

Says the man who thinks SKSPTICALSHITSCIENCE is! LOL

I think I will go with the engineers and PHD's I work with daily.. Who just happen to confirm JoNova and her understanding of how power grids work.. If California's grid were to fail today they too would have massive problems restarting it because enviro wackos down there have killed much of the BASE LOAD GENERATING CAPACITY.. Here's hoping for one good storm to prove a point, not to injure or have anyone die but that will sadly be the result when it does occur. Its not if it will occur but when...

 

[Billy_Bob]

Did you know you cant restart the grid with just wind energy? I didnt....most likely the residents didnt either.
The South Australian black out — A grid on the edge. There were warnings that renewables made it vulnerable « JoNova

Jo Nova is hardly a credible source.

Lame. Facts inconvenient

The Warmers will huff and puff and force the grid back up

They brought up a section of the grid they had base load generating capacity for then began to add sections of their grid slowly. They again ran into problems when their gas fired generators died from lack of fuel and the wind stopped blowing causing the second collapse. after two days and gasoline tankers sent to the various generator stations, the wind continued to blow long enough to bring the grid fully back on line. Needless to say their grid sits precariously on critical failure due to unreliable power sources. They are just one good wind storm from failure at all times..

Enviro Wacko engineering at its finest.

 

[Moonglow]

Comparison of major grid failures in United States and around the world (part 2)
POSTED DEC 27 2013 BY EDVARD IN SMART GRID, TRANSMISSION AND DISTRIBUTION WITH 0 COMMENTS

Comparison of major grid failures in United States and around the world, part 2 (on photo: Aug. 14, 2003 file photo, cars try to navigate their way through New York City during a blackout that hit U.S. and Canadian cities; via news.nationalpost.com)

Continued from first part: Comparison of major grid failures in United States and around the world (part 1)


A Breakdown of Major Grid Failures by Cause (cont.)
Table II – A Breakdown of Major Grid Failures by Cause

Main Causes US & Canada Europe International
Snow Storm 13 fails 3 fails 3 fails
Summer Storms 11 fails 2 fails 1 fail
Hurricane 8 fails None None
High Winds 8 fails 1 fail 3 fails
Unknown 3 fails 8 fails 11 fails
Substation 3 fails 2 fails 7 fails
Transmission Line Failures 3 fails 2 fails 4 fails
Lightning strike 2 fails None None
Heat wave 2 fails 2 fails 3 fails
Other 4 fails 7 fails 12 fails
Total: 57 fails 27 fails 44 fails
On the International side, about 1/5 of the power outages (9 of 44) were not given a cause in the reports. A similar problem exists for Europe.

Comparison of major grid failures in United States and around the world (part 2) | EEP

Are you going to try to blame all of these on green energy? Note that extreme weather events are the principle cause of grid failures. Silly Billy, you continue to establish the standard for stupidity.

Yep and every major area that fails is a liberal nightmare of cities where you have wasted the resources and failed to plan ahead...
You lying left wing sacks of shit..

Read the US Energy Policy Act of 2005 passed by a GOP president and Congress..

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Did you know you cant restart the grid with just wind energy? I didnt....most likely the residents didnt either.
The South Australian black out — A grid on the edge. There were warnings that renewables made it vulnerable « JoNova

Jo Nova is hardly a credible source.

Lame. Facts inconvenient

The Warmers will huff and puff and force the grid back up

They brought up a section of the grid they had base load generating capacity for then began to add sections of their grid slowly. They again ran into problems when their gas fired generators died from lack of fuel and the wind stopped blowing causing the second collapse. after two days and gasoline tankers sent to the various generator stations, the wind continued to blow long enough to bring the grid fully back on line. Needless to say their grid sits precariously on critical failure due to unreliable power sources. They are just one good wind storm from failure at all times..

Enviro Wacko engineering at its finest.

But but but but but the carbon footprint!

 

[Moonglow]

Good thing a blackout has never occurred with coal fired power plants, that would be awful..

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Comparison of major grid failures in United States and around the world (part 2)
POSTED DEC 27 2013 BY EDVARD IN SMART GRID, TRANSMISSION AND DISTRIBUTION WITH 0 COMMENTS

Comparison of major grid failures in United States and around the world, part 2 (on photo: Aug. 14, 2003 file photo, cars try to navigate their way through New York City during a blackout that hit U.S. and Canadian cities; via news.nationalpost.com)

Continued from first part: Comparison of major grid failures in United States and around the world (part 1)


A Breakdown of Major Grid Failures by Cause (cont.)
Table II – A Breakdown of Major Grid Failures by Cause

Main Causes US & Canada Europe International
Snow Storm 13 fails 3 fails 3 fails
Summer Storms 11 fails 2 fails 1 fail
Hurricane 8 fails None None
High Winds 8 fails 1 fail 3 fails
Unknown 3 fails 8 fails 11 fails
Substation 3 fails 2 fails 7 fails
Transmission Line Failures 3 fails 2 fails 4 fails
Lightning strike 2 fails None None
Heat wave 2 fails 2 fails 3 fails
Other 4 fails 7 fails 12 fails
Total: 57 fails 27 fails 44 fails
On the International side, about 1/5 of the power outages (9 of 44) were not given a cause in the reports. A similar problem exists for Europe.

Comparison of major grid failures in United States and around the world (part 2) | EEP

Are you going to try to blame all of these on green energy? Note that extreme weather events are the principle cause of grid failures. Silly Billy, you continue to establish the standard for stupidity.

Yep and every major area that fails is a liberal nightmare of cities where you have wasted the resources and failed to plan ahead...
You lying left wing sacks of shit..

Read the US Energy Policy Act of 2005 passed by a GOP president and Congress..

But our power came back up...we'll see what happens in Australia

 

[Crick]

As you have reminded us many, many times, wind power will always require back up generation capacity. If you want to be able to cope with a black start with ANY power technology, you will have to configure the system to have that capacity. If the outage in Australia experienced this, it is not a failure of wind power, just of system design.

Read (from Wikipedia)

A black start is the process of restoring an electric power station or a part of an electric grid to operation without relying on the external transmission network.[1]

Normally, the electric power used within the plant is provided from the station's own generators. If all of the plant's main generators are shut down, station service power is provided by drawing power from the grid through the plant's transmission line. However, during a wide-area outage, off-site power supply from the grid will not be available. In the absence of grid power, a so-called black start needs to be performed to bootstrap the power grid into operation.

To provide a black start, some power stations have small diesel generators, normally called the black start diesel generator (BSDG), which can be used to start larger generators (of several megawatts capacity), which in turn can be used to start the main power station generators. Generating plants using steam turbines require station service power of up to 10% of their capacity for boiler feedwater pumps, boiler forced-draft combustion air blowers, and for fuel preparation. It is uneconomical to provide such a large standby capacity at each station, so black-start power must be provided over designated tie lines from another station. Often hydroelectric power plants are designated as the black-start sources to restore network interconnections. A hydroelectric station needs very little initial power to start (just enough to open the intake gates and provide excitation current to the generator field coils), and can put a large block of power on line very quickly to allow start-up of fossil-fueled or nuclear stations. Certain types of combustion turbine can be configured for black start, providing another option in places without suitable hydroelectric plants. [2]

 

[skookerasbil]

So what have we learned here?

We have learned that there actually are some bozo's out there who think wind and solar energy are more reliable than coal!!

 

[mamooth]

What we've learned, again, is that deniers instantly embrace any idiot conspiracy they see on WUWT, no mater how dumb or reality-defying it is. They're just fundamentally stupid people.

A hurricane-strength storm and several tornadoes knocked down major transmission towers and that brought the grid down. It's not rocket science, but it's too much for denier pea-brains to grasp. It would have happened no matter what the power source was. If some denier disagrees, maybe they can inform us how transferring coal-based power makes a transmission tower stronger than one which transfers wind-based power.

Deniers, do you all drink a big glass of stupid-juice every morning? Or is it that you're lying deliberately? Given the degree of your failure here, there are no other options.

 

[skookerasbil]

What we've learned, again, is that deniers instantly embrace any idiot conspiracy they see on WUWT, no mater how dumb or reality-defying it is. They're just fundamentally stupid people.

A hurricane-strength storm and several tornadoes knocked down major transmission towers and that brought the grid down. It's not rocket science, but it's too much for denier pea-brains to grasp. It would have happened no matter what the power source was. If some denier disagrees, maybe they can inform us how transferring coal-based power makes a transmission tower stronger than one which transfers wind-based power.

Deniers, do you all drink a big glass of stupid-juice every morning? Or is it that you're lying deliberately? Given the degree of your failure here, there are no other options.

But the "stupid-juice" drinkers are winning, s0n!!


"Brought the grid down"........lmao.....what grid?


[URL='http://s42.photobucket.com/user/baldaltima/media/Australia%20coal.png.html'][/URL]

s0n......you don't even recognize that to the regular viewer in here, you look like the institutionalized guy telling all the floor of 10 North that they are CIA.

 

[skookerasbil]

Just in case anybody missed Mamooth getting his clock cleaned!! Jackass paints a picture like Australia is some utopian renewables society............but I don't think so!!!


[URL=http://s42.photobucket.com/user/baldaltima/media/sanford-and-son-group-laugh-o.gif.html][/URL]

 

[Billy_Bob]

As you have reminded us many, many times, wind power will always require back up generation capacity. If you want to be able to cope with a black start with ANY power technology, you will have to configure the system to have that capacity. If the outage in Australia experienced this, it is not a failure of wind power, just of system design.

Read (from Wikipedia)

A black start is the process of restoring an electric power station or a part of an electric grid to operation without relying on the external transmission network.[1]

Normally, the electric power used within the plant is provided from the station's own generators. If all of the plant's main generators are shut down, station service power is provided by drawing power from the grid through the plant's transmission line. However, during a wide-area outage, off-site power supply from the grid will not be available. In the absence of grid power, a so-called black start needs to be performed to bootstrap the power grid into operation.

To provide a black start, some power stations have small diesel generators, normally called the black start diesel generator (BSDG), which can be used to start larger generators (of several megawatts capacity), which in turn can be used to start the main power station generators. Generating plants using steam turbines require station service power of up to 10% of their capacity for boiler feedwater pumps, boiler forced-draft combustion air blowers, and for fuel preparation. It is uneconomical to provide such a large standby capacity at each station, so black-start power must be provided over designated tie lines from another station. Often hydroelectric power plants are designated as the black-start sources to restore network interconnections. A hydroelectric station needs very little initial power to start (just enough to open the intake gates and provide excitation current to the generator field coils), and can put a large block of power on line very quickly to allow start-up of fossil-fueled or nuclear stations. Certain types of combustion turbine can be configured for black start, providing another option in places without suitable hydroelectric plants. [2]

CRICK DOESN'T HAVE A ******* CLUE.

LOL.. you really should stop... But you wont...

They did not have sufficient generation to cold start the system.. They had to beg it from an adjacent state.. Now the regulatory commission has reissued all three licenses to the coal fired plants and reduced their "green" crap input to just 3%...

They have pulled those coal fired plants out of mothballs.... And many of the wind providers are about to go bankrupt...

 

[skookerasbil]

As you have reminded us many, many times, wind power will always require back up generation capacity. If you want to be able to cope with a black start with ANY power technology, you will have to configure the system to have that capacity. If the outage in Australia experienced this, it is not a failure of wind power, just of system design.

Read (from Wikipedia)

A black start is the process of restoring an electric power station or a part of an electric grid to operation without relying on the external transmission network.[1]

Normally, the electric power used within the plant is provided from the station's own generators. If all of the plant's main generators are shut down, station service power is provided by drawing power from the grid through the plant's transmission line. However, during a wide-area outage, off-site power supply from the grid will not be available. In the absence of grid power, a so-called black start needs to be performed to bootstrap the power grid into operation.

To provide a black start, some power stations have small diesel generators, normally called the black start diesel generator (BSDG), which can be used to start larger generators (of several megawatts capacity), which in turn can be used to start the main power station generators. Generating plants using steam turbines require station service power of up to 10% of their capacity for boiler feedwater pumps, boiler forced-draft combustion air blowers, and for fuel preparation. It is uneconomical to provide such a large standby capacity at each station, so black-start power must be provided over designated tie lines from another station. Often hydroelectric power plants are designated as the black-start sources to restore network interconnections. A hydroelectric station needs very little initial power to start (just enough to open the intake gates and provide excitation current to the generator field coils), and can put a large block of power on line very quickly to allow start-up of fossil-fueled or nuclear stations. Certain types of combustion turbine can be configured for black start, providing another option in places without suitable hydroelectric plants. [2]

CRICK DOESN'T HAVE A ******* CLUE.

LOL.. you really should stop... But you wont...

They did not have sufficient generation to cold start the system.. They had to beg it from an adjacent state.. Now the regulatory commission has reissued all three licenses to the coal fired plants and reduced their "green" crap input to just 3%...

They have pulled those coal fired plants out of mothballs.... And many of the wind providers are about to go bankrupt...

Ahh Crick........like the other nuts in here, I am always drawn to this spot on analogy with their arguments.......the skeptics of course, representing Sir Arthur!!

 

[SSDD]

As you have reminded us many, many times, wind power will always require back up generation capacity. If you want to be able to cope with a black start with ANY power technology, you will have to configure the system to have that capacity. If the outage in Australia experienced this, it is not a failure of wind power, just of system design.

Read (from Wikipedia)

A black start is the process of restoring an electric power station or a part of an electric grid to operation without relying on the external transmission network.[1]

Normally, the electric power used within the plant is provided from the station's own generators. If all of the plant's main generators are shut down, station service power is provided by drawing power from the grid through the plant's transmission line. However, during a wide-area outage, off-site power supply from the grid will not be available. In the absence of grid power, a so-called black start needs to be performed to bootstrap the power grid into operation.

To provide a black start, some power stations have small diesel generators, normally called the black start diesel generator (BSDG), which can be used to start larger generators (of several megawatts capacity), which in turn can be used to start the main power station generators. Generating plants using steam turbines require station service power of up to 10% of their capacity for boiler feedwater pumps, boiler forced-draft combustion air blowers, and for fuel preparation. It is uneconomical to provide such a large standby capacity at each station, so black-start power must be provided over designated tie lines from another station. Often hydroelectric power plants are designated as the black-start sources to restore network interconnections. A hydroelectric station needs very little initial power to start (just enough to open the intake gates and provide excitation current to the generator field coils), and can put a large block of power on line very quickly to allow start-up of fossil-fueled or nuclear stations. Certain types of combustion turbine can be configured for black start, providing another option in places without suitable hydroelectric plants. [2]

CRICK DOESN'T HAVE A ******* CLUE.

LOL.. you really should stop... But you wont...

They did not have sufficient generation to cold start the system.. They had to beg it from an adjacent state.. Now the regulatory commission has reissued all three licenses to the coal fired plants and reduced their "green" crap input to just 3%...

They have pulled those coal fired plants out of mothballs.... And many of the wind providers are about to go bankrupt...

Ahh Crick........like the other nuts in here, I am always drawn to this spot on analogy with their arguments.......the skeptics of course, representing Sir Arthur!!

It's just a scratch...

 

[skookerasbil]

As you have reminded us many, many times, wind power will always require back up generation capacity. If you want to be able to cope with a black start with ANY power technology, you will have to configure the system to have that capacity. If the outage in Australia experienced this, it is not a failure of wind power, just of system design.

Read (from Wikipedia)

A black start is the process of restoring an electric power station or a part of an electric grid to operation without relying on the external transmission network.[1]

Normally, the electric power used within the plant is provided from the station's own generators. If all of the plant's main generators are shut down, station service power is provided by drawing power from the grid through the plant's transmission line. However, during a wide-area outage, off-site power supply from the grid will not be available. In the absence of grid power, a so-called black start needs to be performed to bootstrap the power grid into operation.

To provide a black start, some power stations have small diesel generators, normally called the black start diesel generator (BSDG), which can be used to start larger generators (of several megawatts capacity), which in turn can be used to start the main power station generators. Generating plants using steam turbines require station service power of up to 10% of their capacity for boiler feedwater pumps, boiler forced-draft combustion air blowers, and for fuel preparation. It is uneconomical to provide such a large standby capacity at each station, so black-start power must be provided over designated tie lines from another station. Often hydroelectric power plants are designated as the black-start sources to restore network interconnections. A hydroelectric station needs very little initial power to start (just enough to open the intake gates and provide excitation current to the generator field coils), and can put a large block of power on line very quickly to allow start-up of fossil-fueled or nuclear stations. Certain types of combustion turbine can be configured for black start, providing another option in places without suitable hydroelectric plants. [2]

CRICK DOESN'T HAVE A ******* CLUE.

LOL.. you really should stop... But you wont...

They did not have sufficient generation to cold start the system.. They had to beg it from an adjacent state.. Now the regulatory commission has reissued all three licenses to the coal fired plants and reduced their "green" crap input to just 3%...

They have pulled those coal fired plants out of mothballs.... And many of the wind providers are about to go bankrupt...

Ahh Crick........like the other nuts in here, I am always drawn to this spot on analogy with their arguments.......the skeptics of course, representing Sir Arthur!!

It's just a scratch...

lol......."oh then.......we'll call it a draw!!"

 

[SSDD]

A draw.........yeah....that's the ticket.

 

[Crick]

As you have reminded us many, many times, wind power will always require back up generation capacity. If you want to be able to cope with a black start with ANY power technology, you will have to configure the system to have that capacity. If the outage in Australia experienced this, it is not a failure of wind power, just of system design.

Read (from Wikipedia)

A black start is the process of restoring an electric power station or a part of an electric grid to operation without relying on the external transmission network.[1]

Normally, the electric power used within the plant is provided from the station's own generators. If all of the plant's main generators are shut down, station service power is provided by drawing power from the grid through the plant's transmission line. However, during a wide-area outage, off-site power supply from the grid will not be available. In the absence of grid power, a so-called black start needs to be performed to bootstrap the power grid into operation.

To provide a black start, some power stations have small diesel generators, normally called the black start diesel generator (BSDG), which can be used to start larger generators (of several megawatts capacity), which in turn can be used to start the main power station generators. Generating plants using steam turbines require station service power of up to 10% of their capacity for boiler feedwater pumps, boiler forced-draft combustion air blowers, and for fuel preparation. It is uneconomical to provide such a large standby capacity at each station, so black-start power must be provided over designated tie lines from another station. Often hydroelectric power plants are designated as the black-start sources to restore network interconnections. A hydroelectric station needs very little initial power to start (just enough to open the intake gates and provide excitation current to the generator field coils), and can put a large block of power on line very quickly to allow start-up of fossil-fueled or nuclear stations. Certain types of combustion turbine can be configured for black start, providing another option in places without suitable hydroelectric plants. [2]

CRICK DOESN'T HAVE A ******* CLUE.

LOL.. you really should stop... But you wont...

They did not have sufficient generation to cold start the system.. They had to beg it from an adjacent state.. Now the regulatory commission has reissued all three licenses to the coal fired plants and reduced their "green" crap input to just 3%...

They have pulled those coal fired plants out of mothballs.... And many of the wind providers are about to go bankrupt...

Since you seem to lack the ability to read, I repeat. ALL energy technologies with the exception of hydroelectric and combustion turbines require additional sources to allow a black start. The problem is NOT exclusive to wind as you'd like to have us believe. It is you that hasn't a ******* clue.

From Wikipedia.

 

[SSDD]

As you have reminded us many, many times, wind power will always require back up generation capacity. If you want to be able to cope with a black start with ANY power technology, you will have to configure the system to have that capacity. If the outage in Australia experienced this, it is not a failure of wind power, just of system design.

Read (from Wikipedia)

A black start is the process of restoring an electric power station or a part of an electric grid to operation without relying on the external transmission network.[1]

Normally, the electric power used within the plant is provided from the station's own generators. If all of the plant's main generators are shut down, station service power is provided by drawing power from the grid through the plant's transmission line. However, during a wide-area outage, off-site power supply from the grid will not be available. In the absence of grid power, a so-called black start needs to be performed to bootstrap the power grid into operation.

To provide a black start, some power stations have small diesel generators, normally called the black start diesel generator (BSDG), which can be used to start larger generators (of several megawatts capacity), which in turn can be used to start the main power station generators. Generating plants using steam turbines require station service power of up to 10% of their capacity for boiler feedwater pumps, boiler forced-draft combustion air blowers, and for fuel preparation. It is uneconomical to provide such a large standby capacity at each station, so black-start power must be provided over designated tie lines from another station. Often hydroelectric power plants are designated as the black-start sources to restore network interconnections. A hydroelectric station needs very little initial power to start (just enough to open the intake gates and provide excitation current to the generator field coils), and can put a large block of power on line very quickly to allow start-up of fossil-fueled or nuclear stations. Certain types of combustion turbine can be configured for black start, providing another option in places without suitable hydroelectric plants. [2]

CRICK DOESN'T HAVE A ******* CLUE.

LOL.. you really should stop... But you wont...

They did not have sufficient generation to cold start the system.. They had to beg it from an adjacent state.. Now the regulatory commission has reissued all three licenses to the coal fired plants and reduced their "green" crap input to just 3%...

They have pulled those coal fired plants out of mothballs.... And many of the wind providers are about to go bankrupt...

Since you seem to lack the ability to read, I repeat. ALL energy technologies with the exception of hydroelectric and combustion turbines require additional sources to allow a black start. The problem is NOT exclusive to wind as you'd like to have us believe. It is you that hasn't a ******* clue.

From Wikipedia.

The point here crick...is that an entire australian state is in the dark because their idiot elected officials decided to trust green energy to supply their needs....arguing over black starts is doing notthing but splitting hairs, and does not address the prime issue which is the unreliability of so called renewable energy....

 

[Crick]

If they are in the bind you claim they are in, I agree someone made a mistake. But having alternate supplies to enable a black start is not a requirement unique to wind power. And given that hydroelectric can do a black start, you'll have to explain why a large wind facility couldn't as well.