Greece tells banking cartel STICK IT

[sealybobo]

Greece voted down the knife that international banks had to their throat.

The Greeks are looking at tough times no matter how they voted, so the birthplace of Democracy kicked the fascist international banks in the face and they've said in one loud voice you aren't going to turn us into slaves.
Now those very banks will be FORCED to negotiate a more equitable settlement and payment package because they have no choice

For Europe to even put the oldest democracy in such jeopardy, while insane entities like Isis watch, is beyond unforgivable. You can't squeeze blood from an orange. No matter what, the various financial institutions HAVE to work out a deal with the Greeks.

I applaud the Greeks for standing their ground. They will climb out of this financial disaster, like America has had to climb out of the Bush/Republican financial disaster handed to it in 2008, and come out whole.

What they did today was give notice that you 'don't f#$k with democracy'.

Nonsense. The Greeks voted for the end of the austerity agenda in the last elections. Unavoidable is the collapse of the banks as the people try to get their money in the moment the government faces bankruptcy. The European countries and the IMF have saved Greece several times from that scenario but for Greece´s attempt to consolidate its finances. For years the Greeks knew that this would be coming and they did nothing about it. Now they want Europe to feed them for ever?

A bank never gives a loan to a person that will waste it in McDonald´s and gambling halls because this person will not be able to pay it back. This also applies for Greece and even the Euro fanatics start to realize that Greece is unwilling to play by the rules.

That's right baby never give a Greek alone. Lol and by the way I'm Greek. But the Greeks will be fine Europeans will love to go to Greece because it'll be cheap when they go back to the drachma. And Russia and spend its vacation dollars in Greece. Australia America Canada. Many people will go to Greece especially when it goes back to being cheap. I went to Greece over 15 years ago when they had the drachma and my thousand dollars was worth 1300. Since the euro it would cost me more money to go to Greece so I haven't gone back. Greece will be fine

 

[dcraelin]

Greece voted down the knife that international banks had to their throat.

The Greeks are looking at tough times no matter how they voted, so the birthplace of Democracy kicked the fascist international banks in the face and they've said in one loud voice you aren't going to turn us into slaves.
Now those very banks will be FORCED to negotiate a more equitable settlement and payment package because they have no choice

For Europe to even put the oldest democracy in such jeopardy, while insane entities like Isis watch, is beyond unforgivable. You can't squeeze blood from an orange. No matter what, the various financial institutions HAVE to work out a deal with the Greeks.

I applaud the Greeks for standing their ground. They will climb out of this financial disaster, like America has had to climb out of the Bush/Republican financial disaster handed to it in 2008, and come out whole.

What they did today was give notice that you 'don't f#$k with democracy'.

Remember the debt ceiling hostage and they scared us into thinking if we didn't give them what they wanted the economy would collapse? Same thing they're doing in Greece right now. Remember Detroit went bankrupt? It was a test case for the rich and powerful to see if they could get away with doing it Detroit next Hartford or your any day American city could be next. Why? How? Because they have already gotten away with it and will again. Most people don't even realize the 2007 TARP bailout was a bank robbery nothing more or less

Total investment by TARP 426 billion, total paid back 441 billion.

The tax payers made money on the bailout.

First off, that's not true. There was tons of money, hidden in the books, that was not counted as part of TARP.

But even if it was true... that's exactly what the banks want you focus on. Maybe.... MAYBE... this time we come out ahead. Then the next time the banks make billions in bad bets, they'll say "well last time you made money.... so bail us out even more this time!" Playing right into their hands. Like they have their hand up your butt, making you talk.

Oh make no mistake, there should have been laws passed immediately that the entire executive board at any company that does these types of things in the future will be facing a minimum of 10 years in jail. And fined 75% of their net worth. And companies like AIG and other large entities should be broken apart like Bell Telephone was. No argument here.

China's stock market has tanked and lost 3 trillion dollars in the still ongoing crash. China told all the CEO's of the largest companies that they can't sell any of their stock for the next six months.

In the U.S. these types of rules are across the board opposed by the Republicans. And that is the problem.

And I read China is actually going after corruption big time. During the TPA debate we kept hearing "we dont want China writing the rules"...while I think that's just a red-herring.....perhaps we DO want them writing the rules.

 

[sealybobo]

No, actually I'm not the fool. Not at all. I was completely against the bailouts from the very start. More importantly, I was against the policy that promoted sub-prime loans to begin with.

We didn't get robbed.

If I come to your home, and tell you "You have to give me $8 Million dollars, or..... your world will end somehow"....

and you go.... "DUR! Sure Sparky! Here you go!"

Did I "rob" you? Or were you dumber than forest gump, and voluntarily gave me the money?

Hint.... Gump.

We didn't get robbed. Government engaged in Socialism, and purchased bad assets for way over market price, by choice.

Governments can't get "robbed". You show me the time armed bandits, rush the congressional hall, and force politicians to write, sign, and pass legislation giving them the Federal Mint, and then.... ok government got robbed.

Greece certainly isn't getting "robbed". They could make the choice to spend less money than they collect in taxes... >TODAY< and walk away from the EU, without a loan, and there nothing the EU, ECB, or IMF could do about it.

They are making a choice. They WANT to borrow more money. Therefore they MUST follow the rules required to get those loans.

That's how life works. You want to borrow money from me? I'll loan it to you, but you gotta sign over title of your car as pledge for the money. "Well I don't want to do that!" .... ok.... then you don't get the money. "BUT I WANT YOUR MONEY!".... then you have to follow my rules..... "YOU ARE ROBBING ME!" no, you are making a choice.

That's all there is to it.

I really hate posting things more than once.

Comparing a country to 'some guy' is a red herring argument. There is no comparison. It may appear that way, it may sound good to say it, but it isn't. Nations and their interactions with each other are far far more complicated.

Greece has to come up with a plan and rather quickly and they will. When you have little choice you have little choice. And they are in for very tough times no matter which way the wind blows.

But what they did was, in the long run, a good thing. The large western banks have been engaged in predatory lending and banking practices since Bush took office. That is why the economy crashed.

And that is why Russia, China, Brazil and some other countries are meeting to establish an alternative international bank. You screw people enough times and threaten them and they will react.

It was never just some easy, "well you borrow $5 and yada yada..."

Woo ... what a load of self-reinforcing poop and yeah, if you borrow and sign on the dotted line in exchange for someone else's money, you need to live up to your end of the bargain. The fact that you recognize that Greece was always going to have to "come up with a plan" that would free up new loans makes you just as dim and pompous as Tsipras and Varoufakis and the chorus of A-holes screaming "Oxi! Oxi!"
Tsipras could have saved Greece a lot of economic damage by agreeing to the creditor's terms weeks ago but was having too much fun posing for pix, wagging his finger at smarter people (with far more integrity) and jetting around Europe on the public dime.
As "trustworthy" as Greece and Tsipras have proven themselves to be, this is one investor who won't anytime soon be parking any cash there.

I know very smart rich people who live in Switzerland and argue with their Greek relatives.

I'll tell you what. They are starting to see Greece's points. Then I point out how here in America when the banks collapsed what a stupid bad deal we gave them.

They basically caused the collapse then demanded we take cuts while cutting their taxes.

The rich are shifting the tax burden more on us and middle class Republicans are to blame.

We should have said oxi.

Lower taxes had zero to do with the financial crisis in the US. This is absurd. There is no way you could reasonably connect the two.

If Greece actually practiced austerity a couple years ago, and actually cut their spending(which they haven't) when the financial crisis began, they would have never gotten to this point. Latvia followed the austerity program and is incredibly successful by comparison.

Are you saying that American national debt is not a problem?

 

[sealybobo]

When we got robbed by

LOL

Greece just blew themselves up, and you think it's a victory.

And told the banks to stick it? The banks? LOL

Dude the banks are fine. Greece is who is screwed.

Eurozone Debt Showdown Looms As Populists Surge To Power In Greek Elections - Forbes

The IMF and the ECB, have legal guarantees, that they will not take a loss. The IMF almost never takes a loss.

18% is bonds. That's retirement funds, and pension funds (unions). That's the public.

3% is Greek banks. So the public will eat that loss, if they default.

The Bank of Greece, is the tax payers.

1%... just ONE PERCENT, is foriegn banks.

60%, is the Eurozone...... Whose that? Tax payers.

So who do you think is going to get screwed if Greece defaults? Tax payers. Not the banks. Not the wealthy. Not the rich. Not "cartels". Not the 'multi-national corporations'.

It's going to be the Greek public.... the tax payers of the EU.... the pensioners and Unions. That's who is screwed.

You haven't done diddle jack squat to the banks. You have blown off your own foot.

Whatever chance Greece had of rebuilding their economy, was just flushed down the drain.

When they get kicked out of the EU Zone, no one will buy their goods, because there will be tariffs on them now, and custom duties, and all the jobs they have left, will vanish.

The left-wing always pulls out the biggest sword, swings it as hard as it can, only to slice off their own head. Greece is the latest victim of socialist suicide.

Same with the American bank bailout. We got robbed. Everyone knows that was not a good deal but the bankers told us if we didn't we'd be doomed. you my friend are a fool

No, actually I'm not the fool. Not at all. I was completely against the bailouts from the very start. More importantly, I was against the policy that promoted sub-prime loans to begin with.

We didn't get robbed.

If I come to your home, and tell you "You have to give me $8 Million dollars, or..... your world will end somehow"....

and you go.... "DUR! Sure Sparky! Here you go!"

Did I "rob" you? Or were you dumber than forest gump, and voluntarily gave me the money?

Hint.... Gump.

We didn't get robbed. Government engaged in Socialism, and purchased bad assets for way over market price, by choice.

Governments can't get "robbed". You show me the time armed bandits, rush the congressional hall, and force politicians to write, sign, and pass legislation giving them the Federal Mint, and then.... ok government got robbed.

Greece certainly isn't getting "robbed". They could make the choice to spend less money than they collect in taxes... >TODAY< and walk away from the EU, without a loan, and there nothing the EU, ECB, or IMF could do about it.

They are making a choice. They WANT to borrow more money. Therefore they MUST follow the rules required to get those loans.

That's how life works. You want to borrow money from me? I'll loan it to you, but you gotta sign over title of your car as pledge for the money. "Well I don't want to do that!" .... ok.... then you don't get the money. "BUT I WANT YOUR MONEY!".... then you have to follow my rules..... "YOU ARE ROBBING ME!" no, you are making a choice.

That's all there is to it.

When we got robbed by the banks that wasn't socialism that was capitalism gone wrong. Unregulated free market capitalism

That's not true. Capitalism had nothing to do with the fact that the Federal Reserve created a subprime bubble that eventually burst. The 08 crisis is one of the many examples of the failure of central economic planning. Former Fed Chair Greenspan thought he could get out of the Dot.Com bubble by creating a housing bubble. Artificially low interest rates created subprime loans that would have not existed in a free market, and this bad debt was spread throughout the economy, leading to the crash. It wasn't a lack of regulation, but state intervention, that caused the economic downturn.

Yeah, blame it on the state when the banksters risk our economic security worldwide. The state did not stop them from doing so, so blame it. Now, you get the auto bubble, nobody learned anything and all will blame those for the auto bubble they always blame. Lobbyism missing reality. Idiocy continues. You cannot smoke but put down the whole country instead! That should make the people angry but as soon as the gov´t has pulled the cigarettes out of their faces they start to talk of the "free market" that should be allowed to destroy itself as consequence of the free market. Time to turn one´s back to that craze, there are other things in the world that really deserve attention.

Yeah good point. It seems the bankers made another bad alone. Now are they going to come back to us telling us they need another loan because they're too big to fail? Meanwhile they're sitting on mounds of our cash that we loaned them from before.

It seems they are picking us off one at a time. Sooner or later our cities are going to be "bankrupted" and they'll ask us to take painful cuts. Who will we complain to? The Greeks?

 

[Bleipriester]

Greece voted down the knife that international banks had to their throat.

The Greeks are looking at tough times no matter how they voted, so the birthplace of Democracy kicked the fascist international banks in the face and they've said in one loud voice you aren't going to turn us into slaves.
Now those very banks will be FORCED to negotiate a more equitable settlement and payment package because they have no choice

For Europe to even put the oldest democracy in such jeopardy, while insane entities like Isis watch, is beyond unforgivable. You can't squeeze blood from an orange. No matter what, the various financial institutions HAVE to work out a deal with the Greeks.

I applaud the Greeks for standing their ground. They will climb out of this financial disaster, like America has had to climb out of the Bush/Republican financial disaster handed to it in 2008, and come out whole.

What they did today was give notice that you 'don't f#$k with democracy'.

Nonsense. The Greeks voted for the end of the austerity agenda in the last elections. Unavoidable is the collapse of the banks as the people try to get their money in the moment the government faces bankruptcy. The European countries and the IMF have saved Greece several times from that scenario but for Greece´s attempt to consolidate its finances. For years the Greeks knew that this would be coming and they did nothing about it. Now they want Europe to feed them for ever?

A bank never gives a loan to a person that will waste it in McDonald´s and gambling halls because this person will not be able to pay it back. This also applies for Greece and even the Euro fanatics start to realize that Greece is unwilling to play by the rules.

That's right baby never give a Greek alone. Lol and by the way I'm Greek. But the Greeks will be fine Europeans will love to go to Greece because it'll be cheap when they go back to the drachma. And Russia and spend its vacation dollars in Greece. Australia America Canada. Many people will go to Greece especially when it goes back to being cheap. I went to Greece over 15 years ago when they had the drachma and my thousand dollars was worth 1300. Since the euro it would cost me more money to go to Greece so I haven't gone back. Greece will be fine

If you try to convert 0 Euro into drachma, how many drachma will you get? Greece´s soft socialism that was embedded into capitalism, doesn´t work anymore because the money is away and nobody is willing to give more.

 

[Steinlight]

When we got robbed by

LOL

Greece just blew themselves up, and you think it's a victory.

And told the banks to stick it? The banks? LOL

Dude the banks are fine. Greece is who is screwed.

Eurozone Debt Showdown Looms As Populists Surge To Power In Greek Elections - Forbes

The IMF and the ECB, have legal guarantees, that they will not take a loss. The IMF almost never takes a loss.

18% is bonds. That's retirement funds, and pension funds (unions). That's the public.

3% is Greek banks. So the public will eat that loss, if they default.

The Bank of Greece, is the tax payers.

1%... just ONE PERCENT, is foriegn banks.

60%, is the Eurozone...... Whose that? Tax payers.

So who do you think is going to get screwed if Greece defaults? Tax payers. Not the banks. Not the wealthy. Not the rich. Not "cartels". Not the 'multi-national corporations'.

It's going to be the Greek public.... the tax payers of the EU.... the pensioners and Unions. That's who is screwed.

You haven't done diddle jack squat to the banks. You have blown off your own foot.

Whatever chance Greece had of rebuilding their economy, was just flushed down the drain.

When they get kicked out of the EU Zone, no one will buy their goods, because there will be tariffs on them now, and custom duties, and all the jobs they have left, will vanish.

The left-wing always pulls out the biggest sword, swings it as hard as it can, only to slice off their own head. Greece is the latest victim of socialist suicide.

Same with the American bank bailout. We got robbed. Everyone knows that was not a good deal but the bankers told us if we didn't we'd be doomed. you my friend are a fool

No, actually I'm not the fool. Not at all. I was completely against the bailouts from the very start. More importantly, I was against the policy that promoted sub-prime loans to begin with.

We didn't get robbed.

If I come to your home, and tell you "You have to give me $8 Million dollars, or..... your world will end somehow"....

and you go.... "DUR! Sure Sparky! Here you go!"

Did I "rob" you? Or were you dumber than forest gump, and voluntarily gave me the money?

Hint.... Gump.

We didn't get robbed. Government engaged in Socialism, and purchased bad assets for way over market price, by choice.

Governments can't get "robbed". You show me the time armed bandits, rush the congressional hall, and force politicians to write, sign, and pass legislation giving them the Federal Mint, and then.... ok government got robbed.

Greece certainly isn't getting "robbed". They could make the choice to spend less money than they collect in taxes... >TODAY< and walk away from the EU, without a loan, and there nothing the EU, ECB, or IMF could do about it.

They are making a choice. They WANT to borrow more money. Therefore they MUST follow the rules required to get those loans.

That's how life works. You want to borrow money from me? I'll loan it to you, but you gotta sign over title of your car as pledge for the money. "Well I don't want to do that!" .... ok.... then you don't get the money. "BUT I WANT YOUR MONEY!".... then you have to follow my rules..... "YOU ARE ROBBING ME!" no, you are making a choice.

That's all there is to it.

When we got robbed by the banks that wasn't socialism that was capitalism gone wrong. Unregulated free market capitalism

That's not true. Capitalism had nothing to do with the fact that the Federal Reserve created a subprime bubble that eventually burst. The 08 crisis is one of the many examples of the failure of central economic planning. Former Fed Chair Greenspan thought he could get out of the Dot.Com bubble by creating a housing bubble. Artificially low interest rates created subprime loans that would have not existed in a free market, and this bad debt was spread throughout the economy, leading to the crash. It wasn't a lack of regulation, but state intervention, that caused the economic downturn.

Bush and the capitalist Republicans deregulated Wall Street we all know that deregulated the mortgage industry we all know that send jobs overseas Dave corporations tax rates in the Rich tax rates yes what you're saying is all true but there's so much more to it so much more that led to our downfall

Bush didn't deregulate the mortgage industry. Clinton repealed Glass Steagall(which he was right to do btw), but Glass Steagall had nothing to do with the financial collapse.

The main firms that collapsed were Lehman, Bear Sterns, and Merill Lynch, they were purely investment firms that weren't under Glass Steagall regulations. The bad debt of the financial crisis was caused by the inflationary monetary policy of the Fed.

Lower taxes don't push jobs overseas, and had nothing to do with the 08 crisis.

 

[Steinlight]

When we got robbed by

LOL

Greece just blew themselves up, and you think it's a victory.

And told the banks to stick it? The banks? LOL

Dude the banks are fine. Greece is who is screwed.

Eurozone Debt Showdown Looms As Populists Surge To Power In Greek Elections - Forbes

The IMF and the ECB, have legal guarantees, that they will not take a loss. The IMF almost never takes a loss.

18% is bonds. That's retirement funds, and pension funds (unions). That's the public.

3% is Greek banks. So the public will eat that loss, if they default.

The Bank of Greece, is the tax payers.

1%... just ONE PERCENT, is foriegn banks.

60%, is the Eurozone...... Whose that? Tax payers.

So who do you think is going to get screwed if Greece defaults? Tax payers. Not the banks. Not the wealthy. Not the rich. Not "cartels". Not the 'multi-national corporations'.

It's going to be the Greek public.... the tax payers of the EU.... the pensioners and Unions. That's who is screwed.

You haven't done diddle jack squat to the banks. You have blown off your own foot.

Whatever chance Greece had of rebuilding their economy, was just flushed down the drain.

When they get kicked out of the EU Zone, no one will buy their goods, because there will be tariffs on them now, and custom duties, and all the jobs they have left, will vanish.

The left-wing always pulls out the biggest sword, swings it as hard as it can, only to slice off their own head. Greece is the latest victim of socialist suicide.

Same with the American bank bailout. We got robbed. Everyone knows that was not a good deal but the bankers told us if we didn't we'd be doomed. you my friend are a fool

No, actually I'm not the fool. Not at all. I was completely against the bailouts from the very start. More importantly, I was against the policy that promoted sub-prime loans to begin with.

We didn't get robbed.

If I come to your home, and tell you "You have to give me $8 Million dollars, or..... your world will end somehow"....

and you go.... "DUR! Sure Sparky! Here you go!"

Did I "rob" you? Or were you dumber than forest gump, and voluntarily gave me the money?

Hint.... Gump.

We didn't get robbed. Government engaged in Socialism, and purchased bad assets for way over market price, by choice.

Governments can't get "robbed". You show me the time armed bandits, rush the congressional hall, and force politicians to write, sign, and pass legislation giving them the Federal Mint, and then.... ok government got robbed.

Greece certainly isn't getting "robbed". They could make the choice to spend less money than they collect in taxes... >TODAY< and walk away from the EU, without a loan, and there nothing the EU, ECB, or IMF could do about it.

They are making a choice. They WANT to borrow more money. Therefore they MUST follow the rules required to get those loans.

That's how life works. You want to borrow money from me? I'll loan it to you, but you gotta sign over title of your car as pledge for the money. "Well I don't want to do that!" .... ok.... then you don't get the money. "BUT I WANT YOUR MONEY!".... then you have to follow my rules..... "YOU ARE ROBBING ME!" no, you are making a choice.

That's all there is to it.

When we got robbed by the banks that wasn't socialism that was capitalism gone wrong. Unregulated free market capitalism

That's not true. Capitalism had nothing to do with the fact that the Federal Reserve created a subprime bubble that eventually burst. The 08 crisis is one of the many examples of the failure of central economic planning. Former Fed Chair Greenspan thought he could get out of the Dot.Com bubble by creating a housing bubble. Artificially low interest rates created subprime loans that would have not existed in a free market, and this bad debt was spread throughout the economy, leading to the crash. It wasn't a lack of regulation, but state intervention, that caused the economic downturn.

Yeah, blame it on the state when the banksters risk our economic security worldwide. The state did not stop them from doing so, so blame it. Now, you get the auto bubble, nobody learned anything and all will blame those for the auto bubble they always blame. Lobbyism missing reality. Idiocy continues. You cannot smoke but put down the whole country instead! That should make the people angry but as soon as the gov´t has pulled the cigarettes out of their faces they start to talk of the "free market" that should be allowed to destroy itself as consequence of the free market. Time to turn one´s back to that craze, there are other things in the world that really deserve attention.

The Federal Reserve is a privately owned central bank. No one is defending bankers, they made bad decisions, and shouldn't have been bailed out. But your stupid and narrow minded populism that allows for massive deficit spending like in Greece is just as bad. Democratic Socialism and Corporatism are both failed economic models.

 

[Steinlight]

No, actually I'm not the fool. Not at all. I was completely against the bailouts from the very start. More importantly, I was against the policy that promoted sub-prime loans to begin with.

We didn't get robbed.

If I come to your home, and tell you "You have to give me $8 Million dollars, or..... your world will end somehow"....

and you go.... "DUR! Sure Sparky! Here you go!"

Did I "rob" you? Or were you dumber than forest gump, and voluntarily gave me the money?

Hint.... Gump.

We didn't get robbed. Government engaged in Socialism, and purchased bad assets for way over market price, by choice.

Governments can't get "robbed". You show me the time armed bandits, rush the congressional hall, and force politicians to write, sign, and pass legislation giving them the Federal Mint, and then.... ok government got robbed.

Greece certainly isn't getting "robbed". They could make the choice to spend less money than they collect in taxes... >TODAY< and walk away from the EU, without a loan, and there nothing the EU, ECB, or IMF could do about it.

They are making a choice. They WANT to borrow more money. Therefore they MUST follow the rules required to get those loans.

That's how life works. You want to borrow money from me? I'll loan it to you, but you gotta sign over title of your car as pledge for the money. "Well I don't want to do that!" .... ok.... then you don't get the money. "BUT I WANT YOUR MONEY!".... then you have to follow my rules..... "YOU ARE ROBBING ME!" no, you are making a choice.

That's all there is to it.

I really hate posting things more than once.

Comparing a country to 'some guy' is a red herring argument. There is no comparison. It may appear that way, it may sound good to say it, but it isn't. Nations and their interactions with each other are far far more complicated.

Greece has to come up with a plan and rather quickly and they will. When you have little choice you have little choice. And they are in for very tough times no matter which way the wind blows.

But what they did was, in the long run, a good thing. The large western banks have been engaged in predatory lending and banking practices since Bush took office. That is why the economy crashed.

And that is why Russia, China, Brazil and some other countries are meeting to establish an alternative international bank. You screw people enough times and threaten them and they will react.

It was never just some easy, "well you borrow $5 and yada yada..."

Woo ... what a load of self-reinforcing poop and yeah, if you borrow and sign on the dotted line in exchange for someone else's money, you need to live up to your end of the bargain. The fact that you recognize that Greece was always going to have to "come up with a plan" that would free up new loans makes you just as dim and pompous as Tsipras and Varoufakis and the chorus of A-holes screaming "Oxi! Oxi!"
Tsipras could have saved Greece a lot of economic damage by agreeing to the creditor's terms weeks ago but was having too much fun posing for pix, wagging his finger at smarter people (with far more integrity) and jetting around Europe on the public dime.
As "trustworthy" as Greece and Tsipras have proven themselves to be, this is one investor who won't anytime soon be parking any cash there.

I know very smart rich people who live in Switzerland and argue with their Greek relatives.

I'll tell you what. They are starting to see Greece's points. Then I point out how here in America when the banks collapsed what a stupid bad deal we gave them.

They basically caused the collapse then demanded we take cuts while cutting their taxes.

The rich are shifting the tax burden more on us and middle class Republicans are to blame.

We should have said oxi.

Lower taxes had zero to do with the financial crisis in the US. This is absurd. There is no way you could reasonably connect the two.

If Greece actually practiced austerity a couple years ago, and actually cut their spending(which they haven't) when the financial crisis began, they would have never gotten to this point. Latvia followed the austerity program and is incredibly successful by comparison.

Are you saying that American national debt is not a problem?

Of course its a problem, but it had nothing to do with the financial crisis.

The national debt is a problem, because if we continue with this increased spending, year after year, we could end up where Greece is down the road.

 

[Bleipriester]

When we got robbed by

Same with the American bank bailout. We got robbed. Everyone knows that was not a good deal but the bankers told us if we didn't we'd be doomed. you my friend are a fool

No, actually I'm not the fool. Not at all. I was completely against the bailouts from the very start. More importantly, I was against the policy that promoted sub-prime loans to begin with.

We didn't get robbed.

If I come to your home, and tell you "You have to give me $8 Million dollars, or..... your world will end somehow"....

and you go.... "DUR! Sure Sparky! Here you go!"

Did I "rob" you? Or were you dumber than forest gump, and voluntarily gave me the money?

Hint.... Gump.

We didn't get robbed. Government engaged in Socialism, and purchased bad assets for way over market price, by choice.

Governments can't get "robbed". You show me the time armed bandits, rush the congressional hall, and force politicians to write, sign, and pass legislation giving them the Federal Mint, and then.... ok government got robbed.

Greece certainly isn't getting "robbed". They could make the choice to spend less money than they collect in taxes... >TODAY< and walk away from the EU, without a loan, and there nothing the EU, ECB, or IMF could do about it.

They are making a choice. They WANT to borrow more money. Therefore they MUST follow the rules required to get those loans.

That's how life works. You want to borrow money from me? I'll loan it to you, but you gotta sign over title of your car as pledge for the money. "Well I don't want to do that!" .... ok.... then you don't get the money. "BUT I WANT YOUR MONEY!".... then you have to follow my rules..... "YOU ARE ROBBING ME!" no, you are making a choice.

That's all there is to it.

When we got robbed by the banks that wasn't socialism that was capitalism gone wrong. Unregulated free market capitalism

That's not true. Capitalism had nothing to do with the fact that the Federal Reserve created a subprime bubble that eventually burst. The 08 crisis is one of the many examples of the failure of central economic planning. Former Fed Chair Greenspan thought he could get out of the Dot.Com bubble by creating a housing bubble. Artificially low interest rates created subprime loans that would have not existed in a free market, and this bad debt was spread throughout the economy, leading to the crash. It wasn't a lack of regulation, but state intervention, that caused the economic downturn.

Yeah, blame it on the state when the banksters risk our economic security worldwide. The state did not stop them from doing so, so blame it. Now, you get the auto bubble, nobody learned anything and all will blame those for the auto bubble they always blame. Lobbyism missing reality. Idiocy continues. You cannot smoke but put down the whole country instead! That should make the people angry but as soon as the gov´t has pulled the cigarettes out of their faces they start to talk of the "free market" that should be allowed to destroy itself as consequence of the free market. Time to turn one´s back to that craze, there are other things in the world that really deserve attention.

The Federal Reserve is a privately owned central bank. No one is defending bankers, they made bad decisions, and shouldn't have been bailed out. But your stupid and narrow minded populism that allows for massive deficit spending like in Greece is just as bad. Democratic Socialism and Corporatism are both failed economic models.

There is no proper solution for when it has happened. There must be proper solution for when it has not yet happened.

 

[sealybobo]

Greece voted down the knife that international banks had to their throat.

The Greeks are looking at tough times no matter how they voted, so the birthplace of Democracy kicked the fascist international banks in the face and they've said in one loud voice you aren't going to turn us into slaves.
Now those very banks will be FORCED to negotiate a more equitable settlement and payment package because they have no choice

For Europe to even put the oldest democracy in such jeopardy, while insane entities like Isis watch, is beyond unforgivable. You can't squeeze blood from an orange. No matter what, the various financial institutions HAVE to work out a deal with the Greeks.

I applaud the Greeks for standing their ground. They will climb out of this financial disaster, like America has had to climb out of the Bush/Republican financial disaster handed to it in 2008, and come out whole.

What they did today was give notice that you 'don't f#$k with democracy'.

Nonsense. The Greeks voted for the end of the austerity agenda in the last elections. Unavoidable is the collapse of the banks as the people try to get their money in the moment the government faces bankruptcy. The European countries and the IMF have saved Greece several times from that scenario but for Greece´s attempt to consolidate its finances. For years the Greeks knew that this would be coming and they did nothing about it. Now they want Europe to feed them for ever?

A bank never gives a loan to a person that will waste it in McDonald´s and gambling halls because this person will not be able to pay it back. This also applies for Greece and even the Euro fanatics start to realize that Greece is unwilling to play by the rules.

That's right baby never give a Greek alone. Lol and by the way I'm Greek. But the Greeks will be fine Europeans will love to go to Greece because it'll be cheap when they go back to the drachma. And Russia and spend its vacation dollars in Greece. Australia America Canada. Many people will go to Greece especially when it goes back to being cheap. I went to Greece over 15 years ago when they had the drachma and my thousand dollars was worth 1300. Since the euro it would cost me more money to go to Greece so I haven't gone back. Greece will be fine

If you try to convert 0 Euro into drachma, how many drachma will you get? Greece´s soft socialism that was embedded into capitalism, doesn´t work anymore because the money is away and nobody is willing to give more.

Greece doesn't manufacture anything. That was also a problem back in America 2007. There's just so much more to the story that you guys are leaving out but I digress

 

[sealybobo]

I really hate posting things more than once.

Comparing a country to 'some guy' is a red herring argument. There is no comparison. It may appear that way, it may sound good to say it, but it isn't. Nations and their interactions with each other are far far more complicated.

Greece has to come up with a plan and rather quickly and they will. When you have little choice you have little choice. And they are in for very tough times no matter which way the wind blows.

But what they did was, in the long run, a good thing. The large western banks have been engaged in predatory lending and banking practices since Bush took office. That is why the economy crashed.

And that is why Russia, China, Brazil and some other countries are meeting to establish an alternative international bank. You screw people enough times and threaten them and they will react.

It was never just some easy, "well you borrow $5 and yada yada..."

Woo ... what a load of self-reinforcing poop and yeah, if you borrow and sign on the dotted line in exchange for someone else's money, you need to live up to your end of the bargain. The fact that you recognize that Greece was always going to have to "come up with a plan" that would free up new loans makes you just as dim and pompous as Tsipras and Varoufakis and the chorus of A-holes screaming "Oxi! Oxi!"
Tsipras could have saved Greece a lot of economic damage by agreeing to the creditor's terms weeks ago but was having too much fun posing for pix, wagging his finger at smarter people (with far more integrity) and jetting around Europe on the public dime.
As "trustworthy" as Greece and Tsipras have proven themselves to be, this is one investor who won't anytime soon be parking any cash there.

I know very smart rich people who live in Switzerland and argue with their Greek relatives.

I'll tell you what. They are starting to see Greece's points. Then I point out how here in America when the banks collapsed what a stupid bad deal we gave them.

They basically caused the collapse then demanded we take cuts while cutting their taxes.

The rich are shifting the tax burden more on us and middle class Republicans are to blame.

We should have said oxi.

Lower taxes had zero to do with the financial crisis in the US. This is absurd. There is no way you could reasonably connect the two.

If Greece actually practiced austerity a couple years ago, and actually cut their spending(which they haven't) when the financial crisis began, they would have never gotten to this point. Latvia followed the austerity program and is incredibly successful by comparison.

Are you saying that American national debt is not a problem?

Of course its a problem, but it had nothing to do with the financial crisis.

The national debt is a problem, because if we continue with this increased spending, year after year, we could end up where Greece is down the road.

Do you think we have a chance of solving the debt while cutting taxes on the rich? Then you should know it all adds up and it's all tied together

 

[sealybobo]

No leader in world history ever cut taxes on the rich while simultaneously starting two wars if you people think it wasn't on purpose your fools. They wanted to bankrupt America and they want to bankrupt greece so they can insist on their cuts and their bailouts for themselves because they're too big to fail

 

[Bleipriester]

Greece voted down the knife that international banks had to their throat.

The Greeks are looking at tough times no matter how they voted, so the birthplace of Democracy kicked the fascist international banks in the face and they've said in one loud voice you aren't going to turn us into slaves.
Now those very banks will be FORCED to negotiate a more equitable settlement and payment package because they have no choice

For Europe to even put the oldest democracy in such jeopardy, while insane entities like Isis watch, is beyond unforgivable. You can't squeeze blood from an orange. No matter what, the various financial institutions HAVE to work out a deal with the Greeks.

I applaud the Greeks for standing their ground. They will climb out of this financial disaster, like America has had to climb out of the Bush/Republican financial disaster handed to it in 2008, and come out whole.

What they did today was give notice that you 'don't f#$k with democracy'.

Nonsense. The Greeks voted for the end of the austerity agenda in the last elections. Unavoidable is the collapse of the banks as the people try to get their money in the moment the government faces bankruptcy. The European countries and the IMF have saved Greece several times from that scenario but for Greece´s attempt to consolidate its finances. For years the Greeks knew that this would be coming and they did nothing about it. Now they want Europe to feed them for ever?

A bank never gives a loan to a person that will waste it in McDonald´s and gambling halls because this person will not be able to pay it back. This also applies for Greece and even the Euro fanatics start to realize that Greece is unwilling to play by the rules.

That's right baby never give a Greek alone. Lol and by the way I'm Greek. But the Greeks will be fine Europeans will love to go to Greece because it'll be cheap when they go back to the drachma. And Russia and spend its vacation dollars in Greece. Australia America Canada. Many people will go to Greece especially when it goes back to being cheap. I went to Greece over 15 years ago when they had the drachma and my thousand dollars was worth 1300. Since the euro it would cost me more money to go to Greece so I haven't gone back. Greece will be fine

If you try to convert 0 Euro into drachma, how many drachma will you get? Greece´s soft socialism that was embedded into capitalism, doesn´t work anymore because the money is away and nobody is willing to give more.

Greece doesn't manufacture anything. That was also a problem back in America 2007. There's just so much more to the story that you guys are leaving out but I digress

Greece had years to to avoid this and did nothing. If you want to see our future in Europe, look at Greece. For what will the Greeks vote when there is no money left to make a decision on? The Greeks should now continue their austerity agenda for their own sake.

 

[sealybobo]

When we got robbed by

Same with the American bank bailout. We got robbed. Everyone knows that was not a good deal but the bankers told us if we didn't we'd be doomed. you my friend are a fool

No, actually I'm not the fool. Not at all. I was completely against the bailouts from the very start. More importantly, I was against the policy that promoted sub-prime loans to begin with.

We didn't get robbed.

If I come to your home, and tell you "You have to give me $8 Million dollars, or..... your world will end somehow"....

and you go.... "DUR! Sure Sparky! Here you go!"

Did I "rob" you? Or were you dumber than forest gump, and voluntarily gave me the money?

Hint.... Gump.

We didn't get robbed. Government engaged in Socialism, and purchased bad assets for way over market price, by choice.

Governments can't get "robbed". You show me the time armed bandits, rush the congressional hall, and force politicians to write, sign, and pass legislation giving them the Federal Mint, and then.... ok government got robbed.

Greece certainly isn't getting "robbed". They could make the choice to spend less money than they collect in taxes... >TODAY< and walk away from the EU, without a loan, and there nothing the EU, ECB, or IMF could do about it.

They are making a choice. They WANT to borrow more money. Therefore they MUST follow the rules required to get those loans.

That's how life works. You want to borrow money from me? I'll loan it to you, but you gotta sign over title of your car as pledge for the money. "Well I don't want to do that!" .... ok.... then you don't get the money. "BUT I WANT YOUR MONEY!".... then you have to follow my rules..... "YOU ARE ROBBING ME!" no, you are making a choice.

That's all there is to it.

When we got robbed by the banks that wasn't socialism that was capitalism gone wrong. Unregulated free market capitalism

That's not true. Capitalism had nothing to do with the fact that the Federal Reserve created a subprime bubble that eventually burst. The 08 crisis is one of the many examples of the failure of central economic planning. Former Fed Chair Greenspan thought he could get out of the Dot.Com bubble by creating a housing bubble. Artificially low interest rates created subprime loans that would have not existed in a free market, and this bad debt was spread throughout the economy, leading to the crash. It wasn't a lack of regulation, but state intervention, that caused the economic downturn.

Yeah, blame it on the state when the banksters risk our economic security worldwide. The state did not stop them from doing so, so blame it. Now, you get the auto bubble, nobody learned anything and all will blame those for the auto bubble they always blame. Lobbyism missing reality. Idiocy continues. You cannot smoke but put down the whole country instead! That should make the people angry but as soon as the gov´t has pulled the cigarettes out of their faces they start to talk of the "free market" that should be allowed to destroy itself as consequence of the free market. Time to turn one´s back to that craze, there are other things in the world that really deserve attention.

The Federal Reserve is a privately owned central bank. No one is defending bankers, they made bad decisions, and shouldn't have been bailed out. But your stupid and narrow minded populism that allows for massive deficit spending like in Greece is just as bad. Democratic Socialism and Corporatism are both failed economic models.

Deficit spending like we do on defense or pork projects? Remember pork? What ever happened to complaining about that? On fucking yea, the GOP control both houses. They love pork now.

You also don't send all your manufacturing jobs overseas unless you're practicing disaster capitalism. All those workers were paying their mortgages and taxes.

Republicans arent just intellectually dishonest with us I believe they're just as dishonest with themselves.

So much they don't get nor will they ever. They make the perfect sheep.

 

[sealybobo]

Greece voted down the knife that international banks had to their throat.

The Greeks are looking at tough times no matter how they voted, so the birthplace of Democracy kicked the fascist international banks in the face and they've said in one loud voice you aren't going to turn us into slaves.
Now those very banks will be FORCED to negotiate a more equitable settlement and payment package because they have no choice

For Europe to even put the oldest democracy in such jeopardy, while insane entities like Isis watch, is beyond unforgivable. You can't squeeze blood from an orange. No matter what, the various financial institutions HAVE to work out a deal with the Greeks.

I applaud the Greeks for standing their ground. They will climb out of this financial disaster, like America has had to climb out of the Bush/Republican financial disaster handed to it in 2008, and come out whole.

What they did today was give notice that you 'don't f#$k with democracy'.

Nonsense. The Greeks voted for the end of the austerity agenda in the last elections. Unavoidable is the collapse of the banks as the people try to get their money in the moment the government faces bankruptcy. The European countries and the IMF have saved Greece several times from that scenario but for Greece´s attempt to consolidate its finances. For years the Greeks knew that this would be coming and they did nothing about it. Now they want Europe to feed them for ever?

A bank never gives a loan to a person that will waste it in McDonald´s and gambling halls because this person will not be able to pay it back. This also applies for Greece and even the Euro fanatics start to realize that Greece is unwilling to play by the rules.

That's right baby never give a Greek alone. Lol and by the way I'm Greek. But the Greeks will be fine Europeans will love to go to Greece because it'll be cheap when they go back to the drachma. And Russia and spend its vacation dollars in Greece. Australia America Canada. Many people will go to Greece especially when it goes back to being cheap. I went to Greece over 15 years ago when they had the drachma and my thousand dollars was worth 1300. Since the euro it would cost me more money to go to Greece so I haven't gone back. Greece will be fine

If you try to convert 0 Euro into drachma, how many drachma will you get? Greece´s soft socialism that was embedded into capitalism, doesn´t work anymore because the money is away and nobody is willing to give more.

Greece doesn't manufacture anything. That was also a problem back in America 2007. There's just so much more to the story that you guys are leaving out but I digress

Greece had years to to avoid this and did nothing. If you want to see our future in Europe, look at Greece. For what will the Greeks vote when there is no money left to make a decision on? The Greeks should now continue their austerity agenda for their own sake.

They control important ports. Tax ships. And be nicer to tourists. I'm a Greek American and I think Greeks are assholes. Personally I think they deserve what they're going through the arrogant bastards but I also don't like what the rich and powerful are doing all across the globe I believe they did it in a couple of Middle Eastern countries I can't remember which now I remember the french people had to take cuts before Detroit. Now Puerto Rico and Greece. Who's next? They're picking us off one at a time.

So part of me is proud of Greece. Oxi!

 

[Bleipriester]

When we got robbed by

No, actually I'm not the fool. Not at all. I was completely against the bailouts from the very start. More importantly, I was against the policy that promoted sub-prime loans to begin with.

We didn't get robbed.

If I come to your home, and tell you "You have to give me $8 Million dollars, or..... your world will end somehow"....

and you go.... "DUR! Sure Sparky! Here you go!"

Did I "rob" you? Or were you dumber than forest gump, and voluntarily gave me the money?

Hint.... Gump.

We didn't get robbed. Government engaged in Socialism, and purchased bad assets for way over market price, by choice.

Governments can't get "robbed". You show me the time armed bandits, rush the congressional hall, and force politicians to write, sign, and pass legislation giving them the Federal Mint, and then.... ok government got robbed.

Greece certainly isn't getting "robbed". They could make the choice to spend less money than they collect in taxes... >TODAY< and walk away from the EU, without a loan, and there nothing the EU, ECB, or IMF could do about it.

They are making a choice. They WANT to borrow more money. Therefore they MUST follow the rules required to get those loans.

That's how life works. You want to borrow money from me? I'll loan it to you, but you gotta sign over title of your car as pledge for the money. "Well I don't want to do that!" .... ok.... then you don't get the money. "BUT I WANT YOUR MONEY!".... then you have to follow my rules..... "YOU ARE ROBBING ME!" no, you are making a choice.

That's all there is to it.

When we got robbed by the banks that wasn't socialism that was capitalism gone wrong. Unregulated free market capitalism

That's not true. Capitalism had nothing to do with the fact that the Federal Reserve created a subprime bubble that eventually burst. The 08 crisis is one of the many examples of the failure of central economic planning. Former Fed Chair Greenspan thought he could get out of the Dot.Com bubble by creating a housing bubble. Artificially low interest rates created subprime loans that would have not existed in a free market, and this bad debt was spread throughout the economy, leading to the crash. It wasn't a lack of regulation, but state intervention, that caused the economic downturn.

Yeah, blame it on the state when the banksters risk our economic security worldwide. The state did not stop them from doing so, so blame it. Now, you get the auto bubble, nobody learned anything and all will blame those for the auto bubble they always blame. Lobbyism missing reality. Idiocy continues. You cannot smoke but put down the whole country instead! That should make the people angry but as soon as the gov´t has pulled the cigarettes out of their faces they start to talk of the "free market" that should be allowed to destroy itself as consequence of the free market. Time to turn one´s back to that craze, there are other things in the world that really deserve attention.

The Federal Reserve is a privately owned central bank. No one is defending bankers, they made bad decisions, and shouldn't have been bailed out. But your stupid and narrow minded populism that allows for massive deficit spending like in Greece is just as bad. Democratic Socialism and Corporatism are both failed economic models.

Deficit spending like we do on defense or pork projects? Remember pork? What ever happened to complaining about that? On fucking yea, the GOP control both houses. They love pork now.

You also don't send all your manufacturing jobs overseas unless you're practicing disaster capitalism. All those workers were paying their mortgages and taxes.

Republicans arent just intellectually dishonest with us I believe they're just as dishonest with themselves.

So much they don't get nor will they ever. They make the perfect sheep.

I agree but are the democrats better?

 

[Bleipriester]

Nonsense. The Greeks voted for the end of the austerity agenda in the last elections. Unavoidable is the collapse of the banks as the people try to get their money in the moment the government faces bankruptcy. The European countries and the IMF have saved Greece several times from that scenario but for Greece´s attempt to consolidate its finances. For years the Greeks knew that this would be coming and they did nothing about it. Now they want Europe to feed them for ever?

A bank never gives a loan to a person that will waste it in McDonald´s and gambling halls because this person will not be able to pay it back. This also applies for Greece and even the Euro fanatics start to realize that Greece is unwilling to play by the rules.

That's right baby never give a Greek alone. Lol and by the way I'm Greek. But the Greeks will be fine Europeans will love to go to Greece because it'll be cheap when they go back to the drachma. And Russia and spend its vacation dollars in Greece. Australia America Canada. Many people will go to Greece especially when it goes back to being cheap. I went to Greece over 15 years ago when they had the drachma and my thousand dollars was worth 1300. Since the euro it would cost me more money to go to Greece so I haven't gone back. Greece will be fine

If you try to convert 0 Euro into drachma, how many drachma will you get? Greece´s soft socialism that was embedded into capitalism, doesn´t work anymore because the money is away and nobody is willing to give more.

Greece doesn't manufacture anything. That was also a problem back in America 2007. There's just so much more to the story that you guys are leaving out but I digress

Greece had years to to avoid this and did nothing. If you want to see our future in Europe, look at Greece. For what will the Greeks vote when there is no money left to make a decision on? The Greeks should now continue their austerity agenda for their own sake.

They control important ports. Tax ships. And be nicer to tourists. I'm a Greek American and I think Greeks are assholes. Personally I think they deserve what they're going through the arrogant bastards but I also don't like what the rich and powerful are doing all across the globe I believe they did it in a couple of Middle Eastern countries I can't remember which now I remember the french people had to take cuts before Detroit. Now Puerto Rico and Greece. Who's next? They're picking us off one at a time.

So part of me is proud of Greece. Oxi!

Greece was not picked. It knowingly ran into bankruptcy and could get no more loans on the market.

 

[Andylusion]

When we got robbed by

Same with the American bank bailout. We got robbed. Everyone knows that was not a good deal but the bankers told us if we didn't we'd be doomed. you my friend are a fool

No, actually I'm not the fool. Not at all. I was completely against the bailouts from the very start. More importantly, I was against the policy that promoted sub-prime loans to begin with.

We didn't get robbed.

If I come to your home, and tell you "You have to give me $8 Million dollars, or..... your world will end somehow"....

and you go.... "DUR! Sure Sparky! Here you go!"

Did I "rob" you? Or were you dumber than forest gump, and voluntarily gave me the money?

Hint.... Gump.

We didn't get robbed. Government engaged in Socialism, and purchased bad assets for way over market price, by choice.

Governments can't get "robbed". You show me the time armed bandits, rush the congressional hall, and force politicians to write, sign, and pass legislation giving them the Federal Mint, and then.... ok government got robbed.

Greece certainly isn't getting "robbed". They could make the choice to spend less money than they collect in taxes... >TODAY< and walk away from the EU, without a loan, and there nothing the EU, ECB, or IMF could do about it.

They are making a choice. They WANT to borrow more money. Therefore they MUST follow the rules required to get those loans.

That's how life works. You want to borrow money from me? I'll loan it to you, but you gotta sign over title of your car as pledge for the money. "Well I don't want to do that!" .... ok.... then you don't get the money. "BUT I WANT YOUR MONEY!".... then you have to follow my rules..... "YOU ARE ROBBING ME!" no, you are making a choice.

That's all there is to it.

When we got robbed by the banks that wasn't socialism that was capitalism gone wrong. Unregulated free market capitalism

That's not true. Capitalism had nothing to do with the fact that the Federal Reserve created a subprime bubble that eventually burst. The 08 crisis is one of the many examples of the failure of central economic planning. Former Fed Chair Greenspan thought he could get out of the Dot.Com bubble by creating a housing bubble. Artificially low interest rates created subprime loans that would have not existed in a free market, and this bad debt was spread throughout the economy, leading to the crash. It wasn't a lack of regulation, but state intervention, that caused the economic downturn.

Yeah, blame it on the state when the banksters risk our economic security worldwide. The state did not stop them from doing so, so blame it. Now, you get the auto bubble, nobody learned anything and all will blame those for the auto bubble they always blame. Lobbyism missing reality. Idiocy continues. You cannot smoke but put down the whole country instead! That should make the people angry but as soon as the gov´t has pulled the cigarettes out of their faces they start to talk of the "free market" that should be allowed to destroy itself as consequence of the free market. Time to turn one´s back to that craze, there are other things in the world that really deserve attention.

Yeah good point. It seems the bankers made another bad alone. Now are they going to come back to us telling us they need another loan because they're too big to fail? Meanwhile they're sitting on mounds of our cash that we loaned them from before.

It seems they are picking us off one at a time. Sooner or later our cities are going to be "bankrupted" and they'll ask us to take painful cuts. Who will we complain to? The Greeks?

I don't understand any of this.

How do you blame banks, for government spending more money than they collect in taxes?

The private banks are not asking for a bailout. Greece is asking for a bailout.

 

[sealybobo]

That's right baby never give a Greek alone. Lol and by the way I'm Greek. But the Greeks will be fine Europeans will love to go to Greece because it'll be cheap when they go back to the drachma. And Russia and spend its vacation dollars in Greece. Australia America Canada. Many people will go to Greece especially when it goes back to being cheap. I went to Greece over 15 years ago when they had the drachma and my thousand dollars was worth 1300. Since the euro it would cost me more money to go to Greece so I haven't gone back. Greece will be fine

If you try to convert 0 Euro into drachma, how many drachma will you get? Greece´s soft socialism that was embedded into capitalism, doesn´t work anymore because the money is away and nobody is willing to give more.

Greece doesn't manufacture anything. That was also a problem back in America 2007. There's just so much more to the story that you guys are leaving out but I digress

Greece had years to to avoid this and did nothing. If you want to see our future in Europe, look at Greece. For what will the Greeks vote when there is no money left to make a decision on? The Greeks should now continue their austerity agenda for their own sake.

They control important ports. Tax ships. And be nicer to tourists. I'm a Greek American and I think Greeks are assholes. Personally I think they deserve what they're going through the arrogant bastards but I also don't like what the rich and powerful are doing all across the globe I believe they did it in a couple of Middle Eastern countries I can't remember which now I remember the french people had to take cuts before Detroit. Now Puerto Rico and Greece. Who's next? They're picking us off one at a time.

So part of me is proud of Greece. Oxi!

Greece was not picked. It knowingly ran into bankruptcy and could get no more loans on the market.

In America some states pay more into the federal government than they receive in some states receive more than they pay in. I guess Greece will just be one of those states in Europe that takes more than they give. If they're like in America greece would be a red state.

 

[sealybobo]

When we got robbed by

No, actually I'm not the fool. Not at all. I was completely against the bailouts from the very start. More importantly, I was against the policy that promoted sub-prime loans to begin with.

We didn't get robbed.

If I come to your home, and tell you "You have to give me $8 Million dollars, or..... your world will end somehow"....

and you go.... "DUR! Sure Sparky! Here you go!"

Did I "rob" you? Or were you dumber than forest gump, and voluntarily gave me the money?

Hint.... Gump.

We didn't get robbed. Government engaged in Socialism, and purchased bad assets for way over market price, by choice.

Governments can't get "robbed". You show me the time armed bandits, rush the congressional hall, and force politicians to write, sign, and pass legislation giving them the Federal Mint, and then.... ok government got robbed.

Greece certainly isn't getting "robbed". They could make the choice to spend less money than they collect in taxes... >TODAY< and walk away from the EU, without a loan, and there nothing the EU, ECB, or IMF could do about it.

They are making a choice. They WANT to borrow more money. Therefore they MUST follow the rules required to get those loans.

That's how life works. You want to borrow money from me? I'll loan it to you, but you gotta sign over title of your car as pledge for the money. "Well I don't want to do that!" .... ok.... then you don't get the money. "BUT I WANT YOUR MONEY!".... then you have to follow my rules..... "YOU ARE ROBBING ME!" no, you are making a choice.

That's all there is to it.

When we got robbed by the banks that wasn't socialism that was capitalism gone wrong. Unregulated free market capitalism

That's not true. Capitalism had nothing to do with the fact that the Federal Reserve created a subprime bubble that eventually burst. The 08 crisis is one of the many examples of the failure of central economic planning. Former Fed Chair Greenspan thought he could get out of the Dot.Com bubble by creating a housing bubble. Artificially low interest rates created subprime loans that would have not existed in a free market, and this bad debt was spread throughout the economy, leading to the crash. It wasn't a lack of regulation, but state intervention, that caused the economic downturn.

Yeah, blame it on the state when the banksters risk our economic security worldwide. The state did not stop them from doing so, so blame it. Now, you get the auto bubble, nobody learned anything and all will blame those for the auto bubble they always blame. Lobbyism missing reality. Idiocy continues. You cannot smoke but put down the whole country instead! That should make the people angry but as soon as the gov´t has pulled the cigarettes out of their faces they start to talk of the "free market" that should be allowed to destroy itself as consequence of the free market. Time to turn one´s back to that craze, there are other things in the world that really deserve attention.

Yeah good point. It seems the bankers made another bad alone. Now are they going to come back to us telling us they need another loan because they're too big to fail? Meanwhile they're sitting on mounds of our cash that we loaned them from before.

It seems they are picking us off one at a time. Sooner or later our cities are going to be "bankrupted" and they'll ask us to take painful cuts. Who will we complain to? The Greeks?

I don't understand any of this.

How do you blame banks, for government spending more money than they collect in taxes?

The private banks are not asking for a bailout. Greece is asking for a bailout.

If you don't get it then vote na. I'm voting oxi