Govt"redistribution of wealth" is no more than theft and distribution of stolen goods

[bripat9643]

When the states established their union, they gave it a small set of legislative powers. Per art I, sec 8, congress has now power to redistribute wealth.

You're joking, right?

It says that, right next to the part where it says Congress shall have to power to regulate firearms.

Where does it say Congress shall have the power to regulate firearms?

 

[bripat9643]

[It's wrong to take someone else's stuff. I would have thought that most people would have learned this in kindergarten.

Actually, by kindergarten most kids have learned that the issue is much more subtle than that. In families "someone else's stuff" is a concept that requires distinction between individual property and rights, family property and rights and the reciprocal obligations of family membership (giving things, sharing things, not being selfish etc.).

For most kids, adapting the complexities of individual and community rights in the family is the basis for grasping the similar concepts in broader social context as they grow older. By high school time, most kids can explain the phrase "We, the people" and its plural implications in contrast to the French counterpart, The Rights of Man and Citizen.

For most of us, the bulwark of communitarian values was religion. Catholic, Protestant, Jew or Muslim, all of us who had religious instruction in youth were indoctrinated with the concept of charity, of the obligation to help the poor, the weak, the suffering etc. Americans used to have a strong, shared sense of "the right thing to do." Most of us still do.

But all that has been eaten away by consumer advertising and the corporate strategy of making money off individual greed and vanity. Since putting the issue in such simple terms reveals its profound immorality, scads of spinmeister and PR flaks have been paid to get on the airwaves and dress up the profit motive as the Holy Grail of America.

Angry, confused old white guys, seeing themselves left behind by an American society that no longer shares their attitudes toward women, guns, church, sex and a score of other things, fall for this corporate propaganda like ten pins. Grab all you can, fook anyone who tries to take it away from you, whoever dies with the most toys wins -- that's the American way and the meaning behind the Constitution. Yeah, right!

No wonder our country has been going down the crapper since Ronald Reagan blessed the new religion of solipsistic greed. Fortunately, the kids have seen through this bullsh!t and as the old guys die off, America is getting back on the tracks. Amen, brother!

"We" are not a family. There is no stuff that we share. The president is not the Dad of "we the people." America has been going down the crapper because of Stalinist morons like you who don't understand the meaning of "what's mine is mine, and what's yours is yours."

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Leave other members' families out of the discussion.

No, my cognitively challenged amigo, we are not a family. We are a society. The point I made, which clearly went over your curly little head is that children learn about society in extrapolation from their childhood experiences in family. You will amazed to learn that there is a thing called "psychology" which studies stuff like this and college guys even write books about it.

To say there is no stuff we share is to overlook everything from our history, our values and our citizenship to our streets, schools, courts and parks. If you had any idea of what you wrote you would see how silly it is. Your avatar says pretty much all I want to know about you. Why you are so angry and vulgarly abusive is a part of your personal sociopathy. Anyone who cannot see the continuum from family to society is either autistic or began his family life as a stain on some whorehouse bed sheet.

You need some professional help. Fortunately for you, Obamacare covers therapy for disabilities such as those your nasty, childish post displays.

To sum up, you proved absolutely nothing. You made a lot of claims that can't be proved one way or another. However, anyone who isn't a total douche bag and a congenital moron can see that your claims are absurd. Only Stalinists extrapolate from the family to society. Being a member of society imposes no obligations on me other than to leave the other members of society alone, and visa-versa.

The stuff we supposedly share is government property. We don't own it. The government does. Government decides who will use it and when.

The only "disability" I have is a filter that screens out bullshit. That means virtually everything you post.

 

[regent]

Has anyone come up with the name of a nation or nations that do not redistribute their nation's wealth? My bag is packed and I'm ready to go, so would someone come up with one or two names?

 

[Little-Acorn]

Has anyone come up with the name of a nation or nations that do not redistribute their nation's wealth? My bag is packed and I'm ready to go, so would someone come up with one or two names?

Has anyone come up with the name of a nation or nations where nobody ever robs a bank?

It happens in every nation... just like govt taking people's wealth and handing it to others, happens in every nation.

Does that make it a "good" thing to do?

 

[Clementine]

But for the federal government and US constitution and laws thereof, your farmer has no property rights, no farmland, no apples to sell.

You libertarians occupy a fantasyland where rules, infrastructure and life in general come ready made and are at your disposal for exploitation. You stand on the shoulders of others...of the efforts of others. You are no island. Start showing a little goddam gratitude to the people that made your lifestyle possible.

Article I, Section 8, states:
"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States."

And the 16th Amendment states:
"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

It means defense spending since national security tops the list of responsibilities. Promoting the general welfare means keeping laws fair so everyone has an equal chance.

No where is there provisions to provide billions in foreign aid to hostile countries or a growing list of free shit.

Welfare meant providing the basics, not everything from a phone to internet. It's getting out of hand.

Government spends foolishly. They waste millions every year and yet nothing gets better because of it. That is because they don't want problems solved, they want more problems because it gives them more power to control us.

 

[Clementine]

Has anyone come up with the name of a nation or nations that do not redistribute their nation's wealth? My bag is packed and I'm ready to go, so would someone come up with one or two names?

Just move to Cuba. You'd be happy there because someone would control your every move. Isn't that what you want?

 

[regent]

Has anyone come up with the name of a nation or nations that do not redistribute their nation's wealth? My bag is packed and I'm ready to go, so would someone come up with one or two names?

Just move to Cuba. You'd be happy there because someone would control your every move. Isn't that what you want?

Sort of thinking of a nation that does not redistribute the wealth, can you name two, or even one? It's beginning to sound like all nations redistribute the wealth. Is that true?

 

[Clementine]

Sort of thinking of a nation that does not redistribute the wealth, can you name two, or even one? It's beginning to sound like all nations redistribute the wealth. Is that true?

There must be some reason millions come here each year. I don't see people wanting to get into Cuba or Mexico. Does Mexico do anything at all for their people? What about the shithole Muslim countries? Are they treating people well? Obama seems to think that Cuba knows how to treat people yet so many have been willing to die just to try and get out of there.

Depending on a person's mindset, they either want to go where they get the most freebies or they go where the opportunities are best. America currently has it all. You can come and start a business just so government can take more and more to give away freebies. We are starting to do too much redistribution. You cannot have equal outcomes by taking more from those who have done better.

Seriously, you should just move to one of those countries that passes out freebies just because you exist. Stop getting pissed because not everyone in the U.S. likes socialism or communism.

 

[BluesLegend]

All you mooching worthless sponges get down on your knees and thank me for working overtime to pay your share.

 

[Dragonlady]

To sum up, you proved absolutely nothing. You made a lot of claims that can't be proved one way or another. However, anyone who isn't a total douche bag and a congenital moron can see that your claims are absurd. Only Stalinists extrapolate from the family to society. Being a member of society imposes no obligations on me other than to leave the other members of society alone, and visa-versa.

The stuff we supposedly share is government property. We don't own it. The government does. Government decides who will use it and when.

The only "disability" I have is a filter that screens out bullshit. That means virtually everything you post.

You really do need to get away from the computer and out of your mother's basement.

There are no Stalinists. Americans are capitalists, and that is in no danger of changing. I haven't heard a single American politician say they support state ownership of industry, transportation, agriculture or mining.

You speak of government as if it were your enemy, not your servant. It's government "of the people, by the people, for the people", and if it isn't, it's up to you the people to change that.

You have no bullshit filter since you believe ever piece of conservative bullshit you've ever been told.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Has anyone come up with the name of a nation or nations that do not redistribute their nation's wealth? My bag is packed and I'm ready to go, so would someone come up with one or two names?

Has anyone come up with the name of a nation or nations where nobody ever robs a bank?

It happens in every nation... just like govt taking people's wealth and handing it to others, happens in every nation.

Does that make it a "good" thing to do?

 

[Clementine]

Has anyone come up with the name of a nation or nations that do not redistribute their nation's wealth? My bag is packed and I'm ready to go, so would someone come up with one or two names?

Has anyone come up with the name of a nation or nations where nobody ever robs a bank?

It happens in every nation... just like govt taking people's wealth and handing it to others, happens in every nation.

Does that make it a "good" thing to do?

It's one thing to have a safety net for people on hard times and permanent solutions for the elderly and disabled who cannot care for themselves. I have never heard anyone reject that.

We have gone too far. Now they have phones, internet, spending cash and permanent government housing. There is no temporary net anymore. Once on welfare, people find it difficult to get off because there is no smooth transition. If they find a job, they are dropped immediately from welfare and that means a period of a few months where they are left high and dry. Makes it scary to jump off the welfare wagon. Also, since many aren't taking advantage of programs, such as job training, they only qualify for minimum wage jobs and because of Obamacare, those are being offered part time. They would have to settle for less than what welfare offers.

The more government "helps" people, the more dependent and less likely people are to stand on their own feet again. It's all by design.

 

[Fishlore]

Has anyone come up with the name of a nation or nations that do not redistribute their nation's wealth? My bag is packed and I'm ready to go, so would someone come up with one or two names?

Has anyone come up with the name of a nation or nations where nobody ever robs a bank?

It happens in every nation... just like govt taking people's wealth and handing it to others, happens in every nation.

Does that make it a "good" thing to do?

Wealth distribution is the quintessential government activity. Every government does it and has always done. It is what governments do. There is no society on the planet in which property rights are absolute. Leaders distribute wealth taken from those with the most to those in need. It isn't just humans. Baboons do it. Bees do it. The funny thing is those people who think the idea is new.

 

[Dragonlady]

Has anyone come up with the name of a nation or nations that do not redistribute their nation's wealth? My bag is packed and I'm ready to go, so would someone come up with one or two names?

Has anyone come up with the name of a nation or nations where nobody ever robs a bank?

It happens in every nation... just like govt taking people's wealth and handing it to others, happens in every nation.

Does that make it a "good" thing to do?

It's one thing to have a safety net for people on hard times and permanent solutions for the elderly and disabled who cannot care for themselves. I have never heard anyone reject that.

We have gone too far. Now they have phones, internet, spending cash and permanent government housing. There is no temporary net anymore. Once on welfare, people find it difficult to get off because there is no smooth transition. If they find a job, they are dropped immediately from welfare and that means a period of a few months where they are left high and dry. Makes it scary to jump off the welfare wagon. Also, since many aren't taking advantage of programs, such as job training, they only qualify for minimum wage jobs and because of Obamacare, those are being offered part time. They would have to settle for less than what welfare offers.

The more government "helps" people, the more dependent and less likely people are to stand on their own feet again. It's all by design.

The current "safety net" exists because wages haven't pace with production or profits. The Republican solution hasn't been to raise the minimum wage, but rather to increase the earned income credits, in effect making the taxpayers subsidize the cheap labour.

But you don't want workers to get a fair shake. Until people can earn a living with one job, and manage to support their families with both parents working, taxpayers are going to continue to be on the hook for more and more basic necessities for poor families.

In the meantime, corporation continue to earn record profits, and CEO's get millions, and taxpayers foot the bill. But you keep on voting Republican.

 

[Centinel]

Wealth distribution is the quintessential government activity.

That is why the state is unethical. It does something that would be wrong for you or me to do.

 

[Little-Acorn]

It's one thing to have a safety net for people on hard times and permanent solutions for the elderly and disabled who cannot care for themselves. I have never heard anyone reject that.
We have gone too far.

The reason government should never engage in wealth "redistribution" (i.e. theft and distribution of stolen goods) is because THERE ARE NO LIMITS. Nothing to keep government to doing it more and more, until they have "gone too far". And then they keep right on going even farther, ad infinitum. Every time.

The ONLY way to prevent govt from "going too far", is to absolutely forbid them from starting in the first place.

Nothing else works. Govt will ALWAYS "go too far".

 

[bripat9643]

Has anyone come up with the name of a nation or nations that do not redistribute their nation's wealth? My bag is packed and I'm ready to go, so would someone come up with one or two names?

Has anyone come up with the name of a nation or nations where nobody ever robs a bank?

It happens in every nation... just like govt taking people's wealth and handing it to others, happens in every nation.

Does that make it a "good" thing to do?

Wealth distribution is the quintessential government activity. Every government does it and has always done. It is what governments do. There is no society on the planet in which property rights are absolute. Leaders distribute wealth taken from those with the most to those in need. It isn't just humans. Baboons do it. Bees do it. The funny thing is those people who think the idea is new.

I've never seen anything more wrong ore more idiotic posted in this forum. Before the 20th Century virtually no government redistributed wealth. I can't think of a single example. In fact, during the medieval period, European governments didn't even build roads.

In short, your theory of society is pure bullshit with zero empirical evidence to support it. Furthermore, your "everybody does it" argument wouldn't even convince a kid in grade school.

 

[Dragonlady]

Has anyone come up with the name of a nation or nations that do not redistribute their nation's wealth? My bag is packed and I'm ready to go, so would someone come up with one or two names?

Has anyone come up with the name of a nation or nations where nobody ever robs a bank?

It happens in every nation... just like govt taking people's wealth and handing it to others, happens in every nation.

Does that make it a "good" thing to do?

Wealth distribution is the quintessential government activity. Every government does it and has always done. It is what governments do. There is no society on the planet in which property rights are absolute. Leaders distribute wealth taken from those with the most to those in need. It isn't just humans. Baboons do it. Bees do it. The funny thing is those people who think the idea is new.

I've never seen anything more wrong ore more idiotic posted in this forum. Before the 20th Century virtually no government redistributed wealth. I can't think of a single example. In fact, during the medieval period, European governments didn't even build roads.

In short, your theory of society is pure bullshit with zero empirical evidence to support it. Furthermore, your "everybody does it" argument wouldn't even convince a kid in grade school.

Your grasp of history is non-existent.

Are your saying that prior to the 20th century, that kings and queens didn't levy taxes? That's absurd.

And then you harken back to medieval times, when life was good, when areas were protected by the local aristocrat, but even then the lords collected taxes from the peasants to pay for their protection.

Here's a clue for you: The Romans redistributed wealth. Taxes in Rome were used to ensure that every Roman had food, because the Romans were smart enough to know that the "headcount" as they referred to the lowest levels of society, greatly outnumber the ruling elite. The term "bread and circuses" stems from the Roman belief that the headcount needed to be fed and entertained, and they would be no trouble to their betters. 2000 years later, Republicans still haven't learned this lesson.

The 20th century, with it's horrible redistribution, saw the greatest period of wealth and greatest improvements in the standard of living in the First World, in history. For the first time, entire populations were literate, and capable of achieving their potential. The playing field was reasonably level, and entire nations prospered. And then Reagan came to power and the transfer of all of that wealth in the US, began.

Asking to reverse a transfer of wealth which has devastated the working poor and middle class is hardly communism or extremist.

 

[Centinel]

Asking to reverse a transfer of wealth which has devastated the working poor and middle class is hardly communism or extremist.

Well if you're advocating government force be used to take people's property and transfer it to others that would certainly be unethical and unjust.

 

[Fishlore]

You appear to be as

Wealth distribution is the quintessential government activity.

That is why the state is unethical. It does something that would be wrong for you or me to do.

You appear to be assuming that the ethical limits of the state and the individual are the same. A minute's reflection should show you how silly that idea is. The state, under our Constitution, is a communitarian entity established by "We, the People." The state is not a citizen, the kids are not the parents and corporations are not people too, my friend.

Conservatism was always a communitarian ideology, one which placed the welfare of the nation above that of the individual. Now we have reactionary anarchists who call themselves conservatives who cannot understand the function of government and society as anything more than oppressive restrictions on their solipsistic idea of freedom. This bizarre perversion of traditional conservative ideology is the result of the decay of the nation's public education system. Tragic.