Governments murder more people than criminals do. They also first disarm the people they want to murder.

[Auld Phart]

Ladders, lawnmowers, bathtubs and cars all serve important purposes, and are not specifically designed to kill. The only purpose of a gun is to kill.

The only purpose of a gun is to kill.

and defend

 

[Auld Phart]

If you can assure that only trained and responsible people can legally buy guns, and that nobody, including police will be confused about which person with a gun is the bad guy, and that individual sellers, AKA "straw buyers" won't be able to sell them to bad guys, I will join you in your goal to arm every responsible person.

and that individual sellers, AKA "straw buyers" won't be able to sell them to bad guys,

you might want to look up the definition of 'straw buyer'.

 

[2aguy]

We left dumb ass. We should have never been there to start, and it cost too much to stay with no advantage to our being there.

We had tanks, bombers, nukes....

They eventually drove us out with rifles and IEDs dumb ass.....

 

[BULLDOG]

and defend

And what form does this defense take, other than the very real ability to kill?

 

[2aguy]

And what form does this defense take, other than the very real ability to kill?

And yet in self defense with a gun......normal people rarely have to actually shoot, let alone kill anyone.....how do you explain that?

The criminals run away, surrender or are merely wounded, not killed.....and the victim survives the attack.....instead of being raped, robbed, beaten, stabbed or murdered.......

1.2 million times a year Americans use their legal guns to save lives.....versus about 250 criminals who are too stupid to run away, or surrender when facing a citizen armed with a gun...

Answer this, since you are so concerned about criminals...

A woman is grabbed by a violent serial rapist at a bus stop, a train platform or in her apartment...he plans on beating, raping and murdering her. She has a gun, and can stop the rape with the gun......
Do you want her to use that gun to stop the rape?
A woman stops an attack with a gun, a brutal rape, torture and murder...in a public space....if you had the ability to go back in time, and prevent her from having that gun...would you?

 

[BULLDOG]

you might want to look up the definition of 'straw buyer'.

A straw buyer is one who can legally pass a background check to buy a gun and then sells or otherwise conveys that legally purchased gun to someone who cannot pass a background check and is not allowed to posses a gun. If a straw buyer chooses to call himself an individual seller, he gains the added protection of not being required to know whether the receiver of the gun can legally possess the gun and has no legal obligation to find out. The straw-buyer/individual seller can not be prosecuted unless it can be proven that they knew the receiver of the gun was not allowed to possess a gun. It's important to repeat that there is no obligation to know or find out whether the receiver of the gun can legally possess the gun.

 

[BULLDOG]

We had tanks, bombers, nukes....

They eventually drove us out with rifles and IEDs dumb ass.....

They didn't drive us out. We chose to leave. We could have stayed there forever.

 

[Auld Phart]

They didn't drive us out. We chose to leave. We could have stayed there forever.

 

[BULLDOG]

And yet in self defense with a gun......normal people rarely have to actually shoot, let alone kill anyone.....how do you explain that?

The criminals run away, surrender or are merely wounded, not killed.....and the victim survives the attack.....instead of being raped, robbed, beaten, stabbed or murdered.......

1.2 million times a year Americans use their legal guns to save lives.....versus about 250 criminals who are too stupid to run away, or surrender when facing a citizen armed with a gun...

Answer this, since you are so concerned about criminals...

A woman is grabbed by a violent serial rapist at a bus stop, a train platform or in her apartment...he plans on beating, raping and murdering her. She has a gun, and can stop the rape with the gun......
Do you want her to use that gun to stop the rape?
A woman stops an attack with a gun, a brutal rape, torture and murder...in a public space....if you had the ability to go back in time, and prevent her from having that gun...would you?

If they run away, it is because of the very real possibility of being killed. Killing is the only thing a gun is designed to do. Can you name another purpose a gun is designed for?

 

[Auld Phart]

And what form does this defense take, other than the very real ability to kill?

 

[2aguy]

A straw buyer is one who can legally pass a background check to buy a gun and then sells or otherwise conveys that legally purchased gun to someone who cannot pass a background check and is not allowed to posses a gun. If a straw buyer chooses to call himself an individual seller, he gains the added protection of not being required to know whether the receiver of the gun can legally possess the gun and has no legal obligation to find out. The straw-buyer/individual seller can not be prosecuted unless it can be proven that they knew the receiver of the gun was not allowed to possess a gun. It's important to repeat that there is no obligation to know or find out whether the receiver of the gun can legally possess the gun.

No...actually, he doesn't get any protections if he knowingly buys a gun for a felon...you are lying.

You have been shown over and over that nothing you posted is true or accurate.....straw buyers are not normal people selling a handgun...they are people who decide to break the law buy selling to actual criminals...you have to make up the story of normal people selling their guns in order to hide the truth.....

Straw buyers are the typically friends, and family of the criminal.....usually baby mommas, mothers, grandmothers, sisters, who are paid or forced to buy the gun for the criminal...then you have people who decide to sell guns to criminals for profit....they too start out with clean records...

The other way criminals get guns is stealing them.....

In neither case does your demand for background checks prevent criminals from getting guns......

you are dishonest...you want gun registration, and you know that universal background checks will get you there.....

 

[BULLDOG]

No...actually, he doesn't get any protections if he knowingly buys a gun for a felon...you are lying.

You have been shown over and over that nothing you posted is true or accurate.....straw buyers are not normal people selling a handgun...they are people who decide to break the law buy selling to actual criminals...you have to make up the story of normal people selling their guns in order to hide the truth.....

Straw buyers are the typically friends, and family of the criminal.....usually baby mommas, mothers, grandmothers, sisters, who are paid or forced to buy the gun for the criminal...then you have people who decide to sell guns to criminals for profit....they too start out with clean records...

The other way criminals get guns is stealing them.....

In neither case does your demand for background checks prevent criminals from getting guns......

you are dishonest...you want gun registration, and you know that universal background checks will get you there.....

Your comprehension is lacking. This is a quote from my previous remark.

"The straw-buyer/individual seller can not be prosecuted unless it can be proven that they knew the receiver of the gun was not allowed to possess a gun."

The determining factor for legality is the same for all straw buyers/ individual sellers.

Of course universal background checks won't prevent all criminals from getting guns any more than seatbelts prevent all auto injuries, or pressure release valves can prevent all explosions in refineries.

 

[2aguy]

Your comprehension is lacking. This is a quote from my previous remark.

"The straw-buyer/individual seller can not be prosecuted unless it can be proven that they knew the receiver of the gun was not allowed to possess a gun."

The determining factor for legality is the same for all straw buyers/ individual sellers.

Of course universal background checks won't prevent all criminals from getting guns any more than seatbelts prevent all auto injuries, or pressure release valves can prevent all explosions in refineries.

And normal gun owners are not selling their guns enmasse to strangers...you doofus......straw buyers are buying the guns with the intent of buying them for criminals.....that is what you want to pretend to not understand....

Universal background checks won't stop this because the straw buyer can pass any background check and intends on using that fact to supply criminals with guns....

Another thing you want is a fee like in New York for background checks.....what this will do is attack gun collections for people who die.....so that simply selling the guns increases the cost by sometimes over 100 dollars......

You play a fool, but you want gun registration, which requires universal background checks first....

 

[BULLDOG]

And normal gun owners are not selling their guns enmasse to strangers...you doofus......straw buyers are buying the guns with the intent of buying them for criminals.....that is what you want to pretend to not understand....

Universal background checks won't stop this because the straw buyer can pass any background check and intends on using that fact to supply criminals with guns....

Another thing you want is a fee like in New York for background checks.....what this will do is attack gun collections for people who die.....so that simply selling the guns increases the cost by sometimes over 100 dollars......

You play a fool, but you want gun registration, which requires universal background checks first....

You have no idea how many straw/individual gun sales occur. How did you come up with $100+ for a background check? I still don't understand why you keep whining about gun registration. New gun sales don't require any federal registration.

 

[2aguy]

You have no idea how many straw/individual gun sales occur. How did you come up with $100+ for a background check? I still don't understand why you keep whining about gun registration. New gun sales don't require any federal registration.

Actually John Lott on the Colin Noir podcast stated that background checks cost 150 dollars in I think New York…… per gun not individual

Gun registration is the goal of universal background checks….. the only reqson you want them is to be able to demand gun registration.

 

[BULLDOG]

Actually John Lott on the Colin Noir podcast stated that background checks cost 150 dollars in I think New York…… per gun not individual

Gun registration is the goal of universal background checks….. the only reqson you want them is to be able to demand gun registration.

New York is really expensive. Even a tiny studio apartment starts at $2500 and goes way up from there. I'm not sure what New York prices would have to do with federal background checks though. You've been whining about federal gun registration for a long time. You should talk to your therapist about your unfounded fear.

 

[2aguy]

New York is really expensive. Even a tiny studio apartment starts at $2500 and goes way up from there. I'm not sure what New York prices would have to do with federal background checks though. You've been whining about federal gun registration for a long time. You should talk to your therapist about your unfounded fear.

The gun stores doing the check

New York is really expensive. Even a tiny studio apartment starts at $2500 and goes way up from there. I'm not sure what New York prices would have to do with federal background checks though. You've been whining about federal gun registration for a long time. You should talk to your therapist about your unfounded fear.

Moron….


There is another problem: Background checks make gun buyers and sellers pay for the costs of conducting them. In DC. and New York City, the total cost is at least $125. In Oregon, it is as low as $55.

These costs present a genuine obstacle to poor people living in high-crime, urban areas. The most likely, law-abiding victims of violent crimes are usually least able to afford these costs. It isn’t like gang members are going to pay these fees.

In the Billings Gazette and Montana Standard (Butte): New Background Check Bill is Flawed

Dr. John Lott has a new op-ed in the Billings Gazette and the Montana Standard (Butte) on Senator Jon Tester pushing for the new background check bill before the Senate. Let’s say a stalker threate…

crimeresearch.org

 

[BULLDOG]

The gun stores doing the check



Moron….


There is another problem: Background checks make gun buyers and sellers pay for the costs of conducting them. In DC. and New York City, the total cost is at least $125. In Oregon, it is as low as $55.

These costs present a genuine obstacle to poor people living in high-crime, urban areas. The most likely, law-abiding victims of violent crimes are usually least able to afford these costs. It isn’t like gang members are going to pay these fees.

In the Billings Gazette and Montana Standard (Butte): New Background Check Bill is Flawed

Dr. John Lott has a new op-ed in the Billings Gazette and the Montana Standard (Butte) on Senator Jon Tester pushing for the new background check bill before the Senate. Let’s say a stalker threate…

crimeresearch.org

So you found an op-ed piece by a well known gun nut. I wonder how hard it was to do that.

 

[maybelooking]

Its pretty glorious.

Even with Bulldog on Ignore I can see the beating he is taking in this thread!!!!!!!!

 

[boedicca]

A woman leaves a gun in her purse and puts it into a shopping cart where her toddler is riding. As the woman turns to retrieve laundry detergent from the shelf, the toddler takes the gun from his mothers purse and kills his mother, or worse, kills himself. If you could go back in time and prevent her from having that gun, would you?

So, one person is negligent and everyone else's rights should be taken away?

Yep. You're a lefty.