Government Programs That Work

[Orange_Juice]

My nephew is a great example of government doing good. All through his school years his great teachers helped him to succeed and with the help of college aid he got through school with flying colors, went into the army for four years as an officer and is now one of the most important people in an engineering firm. He is a prime example of government doing well.

My grandmother two years ago had her hip replaced and is doing real well, thanks to medicare which took care of her, thank God! What would we have done had the government not been there to care for her in that tragic moment of need?

I have at least six family members enjoying a comfortable retirement on social security

It's six degrees below zero here today and I know there are people across America staying warm right now as I write this because government is helping them with their heating bills. Think of the misery those people would be in right now if they didn't get that help. The evil people out there that would heartlessly cut off the funding should be dragged out in the snow, stripped bare and left to die. They are just scum.

Did everyone see those rescue crews yesrterday save those people on that plane in the Hudson? Government workers they were.

Government just works

 

[DiamondDave]

Every day individuals ALSO helped out in NY.... water taxis... individuals just around on the scene... and all should be commended... whether they are hired as public servants in fire departments, Coast Guard, police, etc.. or if they just felt the need to help in a crisis and it was not their job to do so

And here's a novel idea.. help your own family out, your elders, etc... what did my family do when my maternal grandmother had hip and knee replacements and the medicare/medicaid programs did not provide all things? We helped with bills. We helped in getting her a motorized chair to use while she was rehab-ing. We helped and made sure she had a ramp to the front door and a motorized chair for her basement stairs...

And when it comes to your nephew... teachers doing their job that they are paid to do is a good thing... public school for minors is a good thing.... his volunteer service in the military is a good thing.. and if he earned scholarships or got student loans, that would be good things... but just handouts for the sake of handouts for education or anything else is not a job of the government... if a student truly wants it, they will work their way thru or earn a scholarship

As for heat... or housing or anything else... sounds like it is a personal need that you or anyone else has... and if you got to work a second or even third job to pay for the things you need in your life, so be it.. and if you feel the need to voluntarily help out charities that give a leg up to those in need for heating oil or whatever, great... that is your choice to support such a charity... it is noble to do so.... but it is not a function of the government to take your personal responsibilities over

Government programs for 'entitlements' are still some of the most inefficient and corrupt systems out there... let alone intruding into places of personal responsibility of individuals that is not a function of government in a free society

Government programs for military and national defense, where we have our soldiers doing their jobs and being trained for the future as well as for the job they are hired to do... all great... but that is a primary charge of the government to provide for the common defense

 

[Red Dawn]

Government programs for 'entitlements' are still some of the most inefficient and corrupt systems out there... let alone intruding into places of personal responsibility of individuals that is not a function of government in a free society

Government programs for military and national defense, where we have our soldiers doing their jobs and being trained for the future as well as for the job they are hired to do... all great... but that is a primary charge of the government to provide for the common defense

Then nominate republicans, and make it your party's national platform to eliminate social security, medicare, medicaid, and children's SCHIP health insurance. And make it clear to americans that you only want pentagon spending.

I'm cool with that. That would be fucking awesome

 

[DiamondDave]

Then nominate republicans, and make it your party's national platform to eliminate social security, medicare, medicaid, and children's SCHIP health insurance. And make it clear to americans that you only want pentagon spending.

I'm cool with that. That would be fucking awesome

Only want Pentagon spending? Nope... nice try.. Spending on the actual operations of government... Congress, courts, law enforcement, infrastructure, etc....

Eliminate social security as it sits currently? Hell yes.. .It's not a slush fund for Presidents to dip into at their leisure... It has been warped away from an insurance program for those who are old and cannot work... But personally I would be doing better investing the same money deducted on my own... Even if a portion were still taken to pay for those currently in the system....

And yes.. I do support charities for children in need of medical care over anything the government provides.. and I support those charities personally, including St. Jude's as well as local charities helping pay the bills of very ill children.. we're the most generous people on the planet and would be more so if our tax dollars were not mismanaged in government systems that inefficiently attempt to do the same job thanks to bureaucracy, greed, power seeking, etc... if the government were on the list ranking how charities line up on efficiency (what % of donations actually get to the cause not not overhead), it would be the lowest ranked on the list

And I support regulation of the insurance industry so that more people can actually include 'dependent' parents and grandparents on the health plans they have... no different than a child of yours under your personal care and people should be allowed to have the option of claiming their elderly family members... that would be change I fully support...

As for medical care for able bodied and able minded adults who are perfectly capable of providing for themselves, EVEN IF THEY DON'T.... nope.. that is what charities and personal responsibilities are for.. they don't take care of themselves... tough shit.. that is their responsibility and their choice

 

[sealybobo]

My nephew is a great example of government doing good. All through his school years his great teachers helped him to succeed and with the help of college aid he got through school with flying colors, went into the army for four years as an officer and is now one of the most important people in an engineering firm. He is a prime example of government doing well.

My grandmother two years ago had her hip replaced and is doing real well, thanks to medicare which took care of her, thank God! What would we have done had the government not been there to care for her in that tragic moment of need?

I have at least six family members enjoying a comfortable retirement on social security

It's six degrees below zero here today and I know there are people across America staying warm right now as I write this because government is helping them with their heating bills. Think of the misery those people would be in right now if they didn't get that help. The evil people out there that would heartlessly cut off the funding should be dragged out in the snow, stripped bare and left to die. They are just scum.

Did everyone see those rescue crews yesrterday save those people on that plane in the Hudson? Government workers they were.

Government just works

Yes, we have to fight back when the GOP tries to say that government is the problem. It is, when they run it.

And yes, Republicans seem to pretend they didn't get any help along the way, regardless of if it was their daddy or the government. So if they got help from daddy, then the government should help the people who don't have the luxury of asking daddy.

Republicans act like they were abandoned in the woods and made it like Tarzan did.

But even Tarzan got help from the apes. If they didn't help, he would have died.

Remember the GOP bashed Hillary when she said, "it takes a village to raise a child". Republicans raised such a stink about that. So clearly they don't get it.


Ps. I heard yesterday that Bush's approval ratings first started to go down when he mentioned privatizing social security.

PPS. Notice the last 8 years. The GOP are more than ok with the government taking the losses from the "free market", but they want to privatize the profits. So our government the last few years has taken all the losses from Bushanomics and Corporate America has taken all the profits. And somehow they lost all the money? What the fuck!!!

No wonder government doesn't work.

Bush seemed determined to prove the government doesn't work.

PPPS. They also socialized the losses and privatized the profits when it came to Iraq. The soldiers took all the casualties and blackwater took all the profits. We paid for the reconstruction and the oil companies are taking all the profits.

Maybe we should privatize the army too?

 

[DiamondDave]

Yes, we have to fight back when the GOP tries to say that government is the problem. It is, when they run it.

And yes, Republicans seem to pretend they didn't get any help along the way, regardless of if it was their daddy or the government. So if they got help from daddy, then the government should help the people who don't have the luxury of asking daddy.

Republicans act like they were abandoned in the woods and made it like Tarzan did.

But even Tarzan got help from the apes. If they didn't help, he would have died.

Remember the GOP bashed Hillary when she said, "it takes a village to raise a child". Republicans raised such a stink about that. So clearly they don't get it.


Ps. I heard yesterday that Bush's approval ratings first started to go down when he mentioned privatizing social security.

PPS. Notice the last 8 years. The GOP are more than ok with the government taking the losses from the "free market", but they want to privatize the profits. So our government the last few years has taken all the losses from Bushanomics and Corporate America has taken all the profits. And somehow they lost all the money? What the fuck!!!

No wonder government doesn't work.

Bush seemed determined to prove the government doesn't work.

PPPS. They also socialized the losses and privatized the profits when it came to Iraq. The soldiers took all the casualties and blackwater took all the profits. We paid for the reconstruction and the oil companies are taking all the profits.

Maybe we should privatize the army too?

Yeah... NOBODY every worked their way to success

You fucking moron

 

[sealybobo]

Yeah... NOBODY every worked their way to success

You fucking moron

No one ever said that, fucking moron. What I said is that you have forgotten all the people/breaks that you got along the way.

I don't know you or your stinking life, but I assure you that you that someone has helped you along the way.

And so, not everyone is as fortunate as you. For those people, we have government.

Don't cry because you never needed welfare. One day you might, and that's what it is there for. And don't be a whiny bitch about others who do get it. Because they didn't get the same breaks you got along the way.

The breaks you deny ever getting.

 

[Red Dawn]

Yes, we have to fight back when the GOP tries to say that government is the problem. It is, when they run it.

As Dave and numerous other republicans have pointed out, they hate Medicare, Social Security, SCHIP, and medicaid, and they want to eliminate it. They pretty much hate everything in the government except the Pentagon.

You're right. Why in the fuck would you hire someone, to run government programs and who has a self professed hatred for them and wants to eliminate them?

That's just fucking stupid. Would General Motors hire a CEO who hated the company and wanted to eliminate it?

This is why republicans suck and governance, and why corruption is rampant on their watch. They don't give a shit about competent government.

 

[DiamondDave]

No one ever said that, fucking moron. What I said is that you have forgotten all the people/breaks that you got along the way.

I don't know you or your stinking life, but I assure you that you that someone has helped you along the way.

And so, not everyone is as fortunate as you. For those people, we have government.

Don't cry because you never needed welfare. One day you might, and that's what it is there for. And don't be a whiny bitch about others who do get it. Because they didn't get the same breaks you got along the way.

The breaks you deny ever getting.

Breaks??? Never took welfare, or a grant, or any entitlement... worked ungodly hours, trained on my own time, enlisted and served....

That is not getting breaks from someone else... that is doing something about your situation

And if I ever need help... I'll help myself.... and I'll do whatever I have to do... I don't take handouts

And don't give me that bullshit that 'everybody can't do it'.... it's libs like yourself who think that people are incapable without big mommy government.. you love to have them reliant on mommy government to keep them loyal to those giving the handout and punishing success

And the funny thing is we don't want to bring down the government or get rid of it... just bring it back to what it is supposed to be, instead of trying to morph it into a nanny state provider

Competent government is not government so big and in control of every aspect of your personal life....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

As Dave and numerous other republicans have pointed out, they hate Medicare, Social Security, SCHIP, and medicaid, and they want to eliminate it. They pretty much hate everything in the government except the Pentagon.

You're right. Why in the fuck would you hire someone, to run government programs and who has a self professed hatred for them and wants to eliminate them?

That's just fucking stupid. Would General Motors hire a CEO who hated the company and wanted to eliminate it?

This is why republicans suck and governance, and why corruption is rampant on their watch. They don't give a shit about competent government.

Meanwhile YOU support the continued theft of Social Security Funds by Government ever year, replaced with IOU's that they won't have the money to pay back when it is time to cash them. You support the Medicare system that almost never delivers what it promises and costs keep sky rocketing. You support the Illegal take over of our Public Schools by the Federal Government, which has lead to less education, less teachers and more Admin and paper pushers to fill out all the paper work required by the Federal Government.

Make that YOUR pledge and I will be happy also.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

The GOP are more than ok with the government taking the losses from the "free market", but they want to privatize the profits.

You can't blame the free market when we don't have a free market, sealy.

 

[seth1492]

Government programs that work? I think that the idea is that we already have to many big government programs that don;t work. People work, bureaucracy doesn't work well. I hope we see a Republican President soon after Obama so that someone can cut all of the programs he will be starting.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Government programs that work? I think that the idea is that we already have to many big government programs that don;t work. People work, bureaucracy doesn't work well. I hope we see a Republican President soon after Obama so that someone can cut all of the programs he will be starting.

You mean, cut all his programs so they can start their own.

 

[sealybobo]

You can't blame the free market when we don't have a free market, sealy.

That's right. They get it both ways. Socialize the losses and privatize the profits.

You guys called Obama a socialist when you all knew that our system is part socialism and part capitalism.

We have a progressive tax, correct? The rich pay more and the poor pay less? So we are already a socialist society? Not exactly you say?

Exactly.

So how do you know a really free market will work? Aren't you worried it won't? When has it ever been tried before in history?

 

[sealybobo]

You mean, cut all his programs so they can start their own.

Are you going after a Republican? I will gain so much respect for you if you go at him like I think you are doing.

Yea, cut Obama's programs so the next GOP president can start their own. No difference, except Dem programs go towards the masses and GOP programs go to the rich and never trickle down. AND, GOP programs are a lot more expensive.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

That's right. They get it both ways. Socialize the losses and privatize the profits.

You guys called Obama a socialist when you all knew that our system is part socialism and part capitalism.

We have a progressive tax, correct? The rich pay more and the poor pay less? So we are already a socialist society? Not exactly you say?

Exactly.

So how do you know a really free market will work? Aren't you worried it won't? When has it ever been tried before in history?

The freest market in American history was probably the Free Banking Era.

My point was, don't blame the free market for our economic problems when we don't have a free market.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Are you going after a Republican? I will gain so much respect for you if you go at him like I think you are doing.

Yea, cut Obama's programs so the next GOP president can start their own. No difference, except Dem programs go towards the masses and GOP programs go to the rich and never trickle down. AND, GOP programs are a lot more expensive.

I certainly am. Republicans prefer big government the same as Democrats do, they simply don't agree with the Democrats on how to grow government.

 

[auditor0007]

I can only laugh at the strigent ideologies of so many. Either government should be cut to the absolute core, or government is the answer for everything. Yes, government does work in many situations to the benefit of all people. However, too many times, the abuse that takes place within government is beyond belief.

Most programs could have their funding cut 25% and still be extremely effective. At the same time, some should just be cut all together. Why do we need a Department of Education? We don't trust the states to educate their own? Programs like SS and Medicare are necessary. Unfortunately, these programs have been abused to the full extent possible. Why have we allowed the government to use SS and Medicare funds to fund the general budget for the last 25+ years? Why have we left the age to collect those benefits the same as when the average lifespan was eight years shorter than it is now?

Government will only work as efficiently as voters demand. So long as we continue to argue one ideology over another as being the final solution, we will continue to feed the pig.

 

[sealybobo]

Breaks??? Never took welfare, or a grant, or any entitlement... worked ungodly hours, trained on my own time, enlisted and served....

That is not getting breaks from someone else... that is doing something about your situation

And if I ever need help... I'll help myself.... and I'll do whatever I have to do... I don't take handouts

And don't give me that bullshit that 'everybody can't do it'.... it's libs like yourself who think that people are incapable without big mommy government.. you love to have them reliant on mommy government to keep them loyal to those giving the handout and punishing success

And the funny thing is we don't want to bring down the government or get rid of it... just bring it back to what it is supposed to be, instead of trying to morph it into a nanny state provider

Competent government is not government so big and in control of every aspect of your personal life....

I wish I could interview your family and friends to find out where, when and from who you got your handouts/hand up from. We all got them. Just some of us forget who helped us along the way. May not even have been a government program. It may have been a friend or neighbor. Well not all of us have friends and neighbors like that. Bush is the best example. If not for all the breaks he got in life, he'd be a drunken failure. So for people who don't have powerful friends and family like that, we have government. How about any christian charities? Any of them help you? Well not everyone gets help from their church either. And again, that's where government comes in.

Ok, how about the GI bill? Government program that works, right? Why should my tax dollars pay for your college? People who signed up did so knowing what the wages were. So why the fuck did we just pass a bill last year that gave veterans even more than what they were already getting? I'll tell you why. Because it was the right thing to do. So quit being a cheap fuck. Gotta spend money to make money.

 

[sealybobo]

I can only laugh at the strigent ideologies of so many. Either government should be cut to the absolute core, or government is the answer for everything. Yes, government does work in many situations to the benefit of all people. However, too many times, the abuse that takes place within government is beyond belief.

Most programs could have their funding cut 25% and still be extremely effective. At the same time, some should just be cut all together. Why do we need a Department of Education? We don't trust the states to educate their own? Programs like SS and Medicare are necessary. Unfortunately, these programs have been abused to the full extent possible. Why have we allowed the government to use SS and Medicare funds to fund the general budget for the last 25+ years? Why have we left the age to collect those benefits the same as when the average lifespan was eight years shorter than it is now?

Government will only work as efficiently as voters demand. So long as we continue to argue one ideology over another as being the final solution, we will continue to feed the pig.

Couldn't agree more. And I don't think us on the left want the government to pay for everything. That's just what the people on the right suggest.

What you said is EXACTLY right. I've been saying this for a long time. And Republicans did this same thing with Regulations. They said, "regulations are bad". Well the fact is, some are bad and some are good. But they never want to get into specifics, because to be honest, they want to cut out good regulations that protect us, because those regulations probably cost them money.

I think the GOP over the past 8 years, specifically 2000-2006, cut a lot of good programs so they could fund their own programs. And they spent a lot more of our money than liberals ever did on welfare.

How about funding inner city programs? Conservatives don't think that we should. I see the value in funding those programs. They do a lot of good.

And the government does have a role in business. Without government, there would be no middle class.

ThomHartmann.com - Democracy - Not "The Free Market" - Will Save America's Middle Class

1. There is no such thing as a "free market."

2. The "middle class" is the creation of government intervention in the marketplace, and won't exist without it (as millions of Americans and Europeans are discovering).

The conservative belief in "free markets" is a bit like the Catholic Church's insistence that the Earth was at the center of the Solar System in the Twelfth Century. It's widely believed by those in power, those who challenge it are branded heretics and ridiculed, and it is wrong.

In actual fact, there is no such thing as a "free market." Markets are the creation of government.

Governments provide a stable currency to make markets possible. They provide a legal infrastructure and court systems to enforce the contracts that make markets possible. They provide educated workforces through public education, and those workers show up at their places of business after traveling on public roads, rails, or airways provided by government. Businesses that use the "free market" are protected by police and fire departments provided by government, and send their communications - from phone to fax to internet - over lines that follow public rights-of-way maintained and protected by government.

And, most important, the rules of the game of business are defined by government. Any sports fan can tell you that football, baseball, or hockey without rules and referees would be a mess. Similarly, business without rules won't work.

Which explains why conservative economics wiped out the middle class during the period from 1880 to 1932, and why, when Reagan again began applying conservative economics, the middle class again began to vanish in America in the 1980s - a process that has dramatically picked up steam under George W. Bush.

The conservative mantra is "let the market decide." But there is no market independent of government, so what they're really saying is, "Stop corporations from defending workers and building a middle class, and let the corporations decide how much to pay for labor and how to trade." This is, at best, destructive to national and international economies, and, at worst, destructive to democracy itself.

Markets are a creation of government, just as corporations exist only by authorization of government. Governments set the rules of the market. And, since our government is of, by, and for We The People, those rules have historically been set to first maximize the public good resulting from people doing business.