Good Samaritan Knifed Trying To Stop Gay Attack

[glockmail]

[1]When was Genesis written? Moses wrote it. Early man, even earlier than the days of Moses, had a concept of a day. Early Egyptians understood the cycles of light and darkness. …..

[2] The sun and moon are not both lights in the literal sense. The sun radiates light. The moon reflects light. If it were not for the sun or other light source, there would be no light for the moon to provide.
……..

[3] There you go. See? You can’t trust the Bible. Some authors messed up the names. Shucks. Whose translation and interpretation of that translation are we to trust? What Church or denomination is correct. (Catholic or Protestant (Baptist, Methodist, Calvinist, etc.))?

1. The story of Genesis was passed down through oral tradition for thousands of years. Moses didn’t write it.
2. Proof that taking things literally is nearly always incorrect.
3. The record indicates clearly that these were two different men, who accomplished two different tasks.

You are obviously not interested in the truth and I will therefore not entertain you with repeated responses to the same questions.

 

[mattskramer]

Okay. So glockmail no longer wants to discuss the Bible apologetics with me. He erroneously concludes that I’m not interested in the truth. The truth is that I am interested in the truth and still challenge him to give it to me in a pure and consistent manner. I’m still under the impression that the bible is cluttered with ambiguity, absurdity, and inconsistency to say the least. I’ll proceed and post my reply if only for the education of other interested people.

The story of Genesis was passed down through oral tradition for thousands of years. Moses didn’t write it.

Okay. So the story of Genesis was passed down. Many stories are passed down before being put on paper. Authors will sometimes correct the story as they write it. If Moses did not write the book of Genesis, then who wrote it? Shouldn’t the author have explained in his book that a “day”, as told by the ancient storytellers, was not really a day but a very long time? He should have replaced the word day with the “many days”. If I knew that I was writing a story that was told to me had a few technical impossibilities, I would make the necessary corrections.

Proof that taking things literally is nearly always incorrect.

Okay. So what passages are we to take literally and what passages are we to not take literally? Check out http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibc5.htm

The record indicates clearly that these were two different men, who accomplished two different tasks.

Who was chief of the captains? Was it Adino or Jashobeam? The apologetic web site http://www.lookinguntojesus.net/ata20050306.htm provides a lame cop-out. Saying that It has been admitted on previous occasions that copyist errors and textual corruptions can and do at times occur. …Also, the nature of the discrepancy regards material of very minor consequence.

Again, I ask you, what are you to trust?

 

[glockmail]

[1]...So glockmail no longer wants to discuss the Bible apologetics with me. He erroneously concludes that I’m not interested in the truth......

[2] Okay. So the story of Genesis was passed down. Many stories are passed down before being put on paper. Authors will sometimes correct the story as they write it. If Moses did not write the book of Genesis, then who wrote it? Shouldn’t the author have explained in his book that a “day”, as told by the ancient storytellers, was not really a day but a very long time? He should have replaced the word day with the “many days”. If I knew that I was writing a story that was told to me had a few technical impossibilities, I would make the necessary corrections.

[3] Okay. So what passages are we to take literally and what passages are we to not take literally? Check out http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibc5.htm

[4] Who was chief of the captains? Was it Adino or Jashobeam? The apologetic web site http://www.lookinguntojesus.net/ata20050306.htm provides a lame cop-out. Saying that It has been admitted on previous occasions that copyist errors and textual corruptions can and do at times occur. …Also, the nature of the discrepancy regards material of very minor consequence.

[5] Again, I ask you, what are you to trust?

1. **(points to “his” signature line)**
2. Traditions were that those who passed on the stories by “keepers of the text”, both oral and written, did so word-for-word. Several Keepers were checked against each other. The accuracy of the text has been proven through comparison of ancient texts of wide variations of age discovered at many different geographical locations. Changing the text for personal “interpretation” or “correction”, as you put it, was strictly forbidden. The reasons for this are quite apparent with our contemporary discussion. What incredible arrogance one would have to have in order to “interpret” the word of God for the rest of all mankind, or worse, to “correct” the Word.
3. This was already addressed in post 115 #3. A perfect example of you ignoring my reasonable answer and repeating an issue, which is why I refuse to entertain your repeated questions. Please come up with new ones.
4. I believe that source is worse than a cop-out, as it ignores the accuracy tenet that I explained for you in item 1 above. A better explanation is that the second reporter had a different perspective of who the chief was, or that there were more than one.
5. I trust the Bible, as it has never been proven incorrect, and has been proven consistent many times with the archeological record.

 

[glockmail]

Still waiting Matts- Where has the Bible been proven wrong?

 

[CivilLiberty]

maybe im wrong, but it doesnt really sound like the guy was that afraid of gays if he attacked him. Why do people insist on using the world homophobic wrong? I dont see any fear. just aggression.

Fear often leads to aggression, and aggression is often the result of a phobia. Regardless, "homophobia" has come to be understood in that context, its roots notwithstanding.

The other words are "misohomo" or "homodious", neither of which are common colloquialisms.


CL

 

[mattskramer]

Still waiting Matts- Where has the Bible been proven wrong?

I already proved it to my satisfaction. A day is a day. People in the time of Moses understood what constituted a day. Moses supposedly listened to the storytellers and did not change or correct what they said. Therefore, as handed down, God created everything in 6 days and rested on day 7 (as if a god needs to rest). Yet, according to Isaiah 40:28, God never gets tired. There are so many contradictions. That alone is sufficient to prove that the Bible is wrong.

I found this interesting. Read Mark 4:31. Jesus is incorrect when he says that the mustard seed is the smallest seed. (The smallest seeds are found among the tropical, epiphytic orchids.) There are some lame excuses. People say that since it was a parable and because he was telling the people about a seed that they would be familiar with, we should excuse it. I disagree. Jesus said that the mustard seed was the smallest seed. He could have easily said that the small mustard seed grows to become greater than all herbs.

Okay. Perhaps we must take the time and circumstances into consideration. Those old Jews did not have the intelligence, science and technology that we have today. They did not have to global understanding that we have. Yet, if you have to make allowances here, where else can allowances be made? We are not to think of a day, as mentioned in Genesis, as a day but as a long time. Then what other passages are we not to take seriously and literally? Perhaps we should discount their attitude toward women, slavery, and homosexuality. Times have changed but are women still to remain silent in church matters? Is slavery still to be condoned? If not, then is homosexuality still a sin?

Is it still a sin to bear false witness? Yes. Does the Bible allow for mitigating and aggravating circumstances? No. Therefore, in Nazi Germany if a citizen were asked if he knows of any Jews that are hiding from the Gestapo, and that citizen said “No” when he knows of such Jews, he would be committing a sin. Please explain otherwise.

Besides, you never explained how Saul died. The passages contradict each other. Either Saul held the sword or someone else held the sword. Anyway, I’m satisfied that the Bible is inconsistent. I’m not going to entertain this debate much longer. Again, the Bible is cluttered with absurdities and inconsistencies.

 

[glockmail]

I already proved it to my satisfaction. .....

I can't much argue with one who is closed minded.

Amazing, though, how your burden of proof changes with your preconceived belief system.

 

[Kagom]

Closed mindedness can go both ways, glock.

 

[glockmail]

You appear to be inferring that I am closed minded on my position on the Bible, yet it is I who invite the challenge. What you see as my "closed mindedness" is really my faith and knowledge of the infallibility of the Bible. If you have read through my responses to Matt's cahllenges you would see that I have been correct at all times.

 

[mattskramer]

You appear to be inferring that I am closed minded on my position on the Bible, yet it is I who invite the challenge. What you see as my "closed mindedness" is really my faith and knowledge of the infallibility of the Bible. If you have read through my responses to Matt's cahllenges you would see that I have been correct at all times.

You have yet to respond to several of my points: Was the world created in a day, as written by Moses in the book Genesis? Did Saul thrust a spear into himself or someone else did it? If we are not to take seriously the claim Jesus made about the mustard seed being the smallest, then what are we to take seriously in the Bible? Does God get tired, as he supposedly did or day 7, or not?

 

[Kagom]

You appear to be inferring that I am closed minded on my position on the Bible, yet it is I who invite the challenge. What you see as my "closed mindedness" is really my faith and knowledge of the infallibility of the Bible. If you have read through my responses to Matt's cahllenges you would see that I have been correct at all times.

Actually, if I wanted to address you in regards to being closed minded, I would have done so.

 

[glockmail]

You have yet to respond to several of my points: Was the world created in a day, as written by Moses in the book Genesis? Did Saul thrust a spear into himself or someone else did it? If we are not to take seriously the claim Jesus made about the mustard seed being the smallest, then what are we to take seriously in the Bible? Does God get tired, as he supposedly did or day 7, or not?

I did respond to the first two at length, and you did not like my answers, so you ignored them. I won't play "Lucy and the football" with you.

 

[mattskramer]

I did respond to the first two at length, and you did not like my answers, so you ignored them. I won't play "Lucy and the football" with you.

I am paying attention. You did not give a straight answer to the first two questions. The Bible passages, taken literally, clearly contradict each other.

Who wrote the book called Genesis?
From where did the authors get the information?
Finally, if it was understood, at the time of the writing, that God did not really create everything in one week, why didn’t the authors make appropriate corrections?

Who held the handle of the sword that killed Saul? It is still not clear although the answer should be quite simple. Ultimately, Saul held the handle or someone else did.

Let’s move on. God rested on the day 7, yet other Bible passages say that God does not get tired. Does God get tired or not?

Who was the direct mother of Cain’s children? The Bible does not mention any daughters from Adam and Eve. Yet, the world has over 6 billion humans. Was incest involved between Cain and Eve?

 

[glockmail]

I am paying attention. You did not give a straight answer to the first two questions. The Bible passages, taken literally, clearly contradict each other.

[1] Who wrote the book called Genesis?
From where did the authors get the information?
[2] Finally, if it was understood, at the time of the writing, that God did not really create everything in one week, why didn’t the authors make appropriate corrections?

[3] Who held the handle of the sword that killed Saul? It is still not clear although the answer should be quite simple. Ultimately, Saul held the handle or someone else did.

[4] Let’s move on. God rested on the day 7, yet other Bible passages say that God does not get tired. Does God get tired or not?

[5] Who was the direct mother of Cain’s children? The Bible does not mention any daughters from Adam and Eve. Yet, the world has over 6 billion humans. Was incest involved between Cain and Eve?

Again you repeat yourself. Is this the best that you can do? You have obviously never read the Bible, and are just copying information from a skeptic’s web site. As for the specific issue raised once again by you, these have already been answered previously as codified below:

1. Post 121 item 1.
2. Post 99 item 2; one does not correct something that is correct.
3. Post 115 item 6. Anyone with a 3rd grade reading comprehension can understand exactly what happened.

With your new issues:

4. You’ll need to point out specific passages, as you have proven to interpret things 180 degrees out of phase 100% of the time so far. I suspect that this is no different.
5. This is a very good question, and one that had stumped me until recently. When we read Genesis 1 we see that God first created man as an indigenous species. Then, in Genesis 2 God creates Adam and Eve, the first in a long line of families that are documented in later chapters: His chosen people. These are free to interact and marry the indigenous peoples, whose ancestors were created in Genesis 1.
Genesis 1:

27 God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 God blessed them, saying: "Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that move on the earth.”

Genesis 2:

7 the LORD God formed man out of the clay of the ground and blew into his nostrils the breath of life, and so man became a living being.
8 Then the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, and he placed there the man whom he had formed.
15 The LORD God then took the man and settled him in the garden of Eden, to cultivate and care for it.
22 The LORD God then built up into a woman the rib that he had taken from the man.

 

[glockmail]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=507012&postcount=1

Matts, please coninue this discussion on this new thread.

 

[mattskramer]

When we read Genesis 1 we see that God first created man as an indigenous species. Then, in Genesis 2 God creates Adam and Eve, the first in a long line of families that are documented in later chapters: His chosen people. These are free to interact and marry the indigenous peoples, whose ancestors were created in Genesis 1.

Okay. Help me get this straight. God created other people before he created Adam and Eve. Did these previous people also live in the garden? If not, isn't it unfair? Since Adam and Eve sinned and were removed from the Garden, did these other people, who were never in the garden, face the same fate? So, Adam and Eve were not the first people. God created man in Genesis 1. Later he created another man.

 

[glockmail]

Okay. Help me get this straight. God created other people before he created Adam and Eve. Did these previous people also live in the garden? If not, isn't it unfair? Since Adam and Eve sinned and were removed from the Garden, did these other people, who were never in the garden, face the same fate? So, Adam and Eve were not the first people. God created man in Genesis 1. Later he created another man.

Whoever told you life was fair?

BTW, lets continue this in the other thread.

 

[glockmail]

As the other thread got closed due to the actions of my biggest fan, I suggest that we continue back with this one.

 

[mattskramer]

As the other thread got closed due to the actions of my biggest fan, I suggest that we continue back with this one.

Shouldn’t God, of all beings, be fair?

 

[glockmail]

Shouldn’t God, of all beings, be fair?

Why?