God vs Athiesm: Which Is More Rationale?

[PK1]

That's not what the OP said. Now you're making up stuff to prove your "God" methodology.
Getting desperate?

No, I was addressing your point. Chaos cannot naturally evolve into order. Do you worry all the oxygen atoms in the room will move to one corner? No, because we all know it can't do that naturally.

For the 3rd time, why don't you check out the concept of self-organization?
It's in Wikipedia ...

Self-organization is a process where some form of overall order or coordination arises out of the local interactions between smaller component parts of an initially disordered system. The process of self-organization can be spontaneous, and it is not necessarily controlled by any auxiliary agent outside of the system. It is often triggered by random fluctuations that are amplified by positive feedback. The resulting organization is wholly decentralized or distributed over all the components of the system. As such, the organization is typically robust and able to survive and, even, self-repair substantial damage or perturbations. Chaos theory discusses self-organization in terms of islands of predictability in a sea of chaotic unpredictability. Self-organization occurs in a variety of physical, chemical, biological, robotic, social, and cognitive systems.

So you do worry that all the oxygen atoms in your room will move to a corner.

You're not making sense, again.

Try reading up on self organization, it will make sense.

A "helluva" more sense than your "God"!
.

 

[Weatherman2020]

From the late great Frank Pastore.

 

[Weatherman2020]

No, I was addressing your point. Chaos cannot naturally evolve into order. Do you worry all the oxygen atoms in the room will move to one corner? No, because we all know it can't do that naturally.

For the 3rd time, why don't you check out the concept of self-organization?
It's in Wikipedia ...

Self-organization is a process where some form of overall order or coordination arises out of the local interactions between smaller component parts of an initially disordered system. The process of self-organization can be spontaneous, and it is not necessarily controlled by any auxiliary agent outside of the system. It is often triggered by random fluctuations that are amplified by positive feedback. The resulting organization is wholly decentralized or distributed over all the components of the system. As such, the organization is typically robust and able to survive and, even, self-repair substantial damage or perturbations. Chaos theory discusses self-organization in terms of islands of predictability in a sea of chaotic unpredictability. Self-organization occurs in a variety of physical, chemical, biological, robotic, social, and cognitive systems.

So you do worry that all the oxygen atoms in your room will move to a corner.

You're not making sense, again.

Try reading up on self organization, it will make sense.

A "helluva" more sense than your "God"!
.

Really? You think all the oxygen atoms in your room self organizing in a corner makes sense?

 

[Wyatt earp]

I
The conclusion that God exists doesn’t require faith. Atheism requires faith. It takes faith to believe in everything coming from nothing. It takes only reason to believe in everything coming from God.
]

If a child was raised on a deserted island with no exposure to religion- if she didn't believe in a god- how would that be 'faith'?

When I see water flowing in a river- it is not faith for me to acknowledge the river- even though I don't know where the river started.

As an atheist it doesn't take 'faith' for me to not believe in a god. No more than it takes 'faith' to not collect stamps.

But I do think it is a shame you have no faith in your god.

Missionaries once went into the depths of the Amazon and made first contact with a tribe that had never seen a Western. After working out languages they of course talked about Jesus. You know what they said? We've always known about Jesus, we just didn't know his name.

The evidence of God surrounds us.

LOL.......missionaries came to California and enslaved American Indians and forced them to worship Jesus.

They apparently didn't 'know' Jesus before then.

I guess they missed that imaginary 'evidence' also.

I do think it is a shame you have no faith in your god.

Determining the existence of God based upon the actions of humans is not intellectual, no matter how distorted you get the facts.

The 'existence' of god is predicated on faith- since there is no evidence of the existence of God except through faith.

No.. Its not about faith, not about luck...

Its about what you feel in your heart when you ask the man upstairs..

Or in my case every frickin time I think about mother Mary...

Chills go through my bones..

I can never explain it.


Its hard to explain, but the more years you live the more you don't doubt the existence of God.

You try to think logical, or maybe it was a coincidence...

This shit always pisses me off..

I swear to God life would be so easy if I died along time ago...dying is easy..

But God keeping you alive because you have a fucking attitude, don't really give a crap about no one but you..

And yet when push comes to shove..

You say alright Lord I will " try to help a few and push your message "

 

[PK1]

If you don't understand how something in nature works ... and you want an EASY button to push, then there is ...
"God".

That lazy reasoning "method" is known in science & rational philosophy as "God of the gaps".

It's not only dishonest, but short-sighted. New scientific knowledge is emerging all the time, decreasing those gaps ... and also increasing them!

When you learn what you don't know after discovery, and are honest about it, then you are becoming more intellectually & emotionally mature.
- PK1

 

[Meriweather]

If God communicated to me when i'm fully conscious & not drunk or under drugs, and predicted for me tomorrow's winning lottery number ... then i would believe.

Then what you want is not God, but a Genie--a being someone uses to get what he/she wants.

What God is looking for are people He can use to accomplish His will. (We get to be the Genie. )

 

[PK1]

What God is looking for are people He can use to accomplish His will.

His "will" is your fantasy.
My will is to learn about reality.
.

 

[Weatherman2020]

If you don't understand how something in nature works ... and you want an EASY button to push, then there is ...
"God".

That lazy reasoning "method" is known in science & rational philosophy as "God of the gaps".

It's not only dishonest, but short-sighted. New scientific knowledge is emerging all the time, decreasing those gaps ... and also increasing them!

When you learn what you don't know after discovery, and are honest about it, then you are becoming more intellectually & emotionally mature.
- PK1

Sorry, I know no one in science who thinks all the oxygen atoms in a room can all move to one corner like you do.

 

[Wyatt earp]

If you don't understand how something in nature works ... and you want an EASY button to push, then there is ...
"God".

That lazy reasoning "method" is known in science & rational philosophy as "God of the gaps".

It's not only dishonest, but short-sighted. New scientific knowledge is emerging all the time, decreasing those gaps ... and also increasing them!

When you learn what you don't know after discovery, and are honest about it, then you are becoming more intellectually & emotionally mature.
- PK1

So what you are telling me is I am a god Damn genius? An Einstein?

A mother fucker who can drink a case of beer , hop in my truck..drive won't get caught.?

After 30 plus years?

I can tell the boss off at numerous jobs..and another one pops up instaniously ?

I can play with fire and I never get burned?

Dude again I am 51 years old and I have done a lot of evil things..

But in the end I always win.

So who has my back?

Not believing in God?

Or just lucky after 51 years?

 

[Meriweather]

His "will" is your fantasy.
My will is to learn about reality.

No fantasy. I find this kind of discussion works much better if people don't diagnose one another. You know nothing about me or my experiences so you desiring it to be only fantasy is pure wishful thinking on your part. Let's let everyone speak for themselves.

It does appear that we both might be interested in reality. Is your reality limited to physical evidence?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Now answer my question. Is there anything hat would make you believe God exists?

If God communicated to me when i'm fully conscious & not drunk or under drugs, and predicted for me tomorrow's winning lottery number ... then i would believe.

Ever see the movie Bruce Almighty? Great movie that shows why God doesn't answer all prayers with a yes.

 

[Abishai100]

Dream-Decisions

There's quite a bit of interest lately in fairy-tale and fantasy-mythology realm storytelling and film-making (e.g., the Harry Potter and Tolkien/Hobbit films).

Do wizards stir our interest in alternative mysticism?

 

[Weatherman2020]

Dream-Decisions

There's quite a bit of interest lately in fairy-tale and fantasy-mythology realm storytelling and film-making (e.g., the Harry Potter and Tolkien/Hobbit films).

Do wizards stir our interest in alternative mysticism?



View attachment 87158

Of which you can include Athiesm.

This thread is not about which faith is the right faith, but Christianity is about helping those in need. And when we can't help, we sit down and cry and pray with them.

 

[LuckyDuck]

Ahhh, which is more rational, the belief in invisible fairies, trolls, elves, leprechauns, ogres, deities and Santa Claus......
OR.....
the belief that science and the natural world are more rational.
I'll stick with science and the natural world.

 

[the_human_being]

There are a dozen theories even among evolutionist.

There may be details about the mechanism that remain to be worked out but the fact of evolution is a proven scientific fact.

No it isn't. The fact that you still have to work it out proves it is still only a theory. Which single theory that is being presented as fact by the evolutionists are you claiming to be the fact? There are so many I would like to know which one.

The FACT of evolution, accepted by the vast majority of scientists and supported by an overwhelming body of evidence is that all life is descended from a common ancestor

There is no FACT. Were you to read any of the several theories, you would find they are supported by words such as "may have", "might have", "could have", "it is possible" etc. Also there is no general agreement as to which theory is the single theory. When you claim a vast majority you say nothing at all. You only state the obvious that those are usually funded by a Liberal college who has an agenda. There are also many scientists, medical people, and others who do not support any of the many theories of evolution. I can also state that most mathematicians do not support any evolution theory. Your scientists are changing their own theories every day. I remember when my little science book proclaimed all dinosaurs to be cold blooded animals. They still are arguing whether or not eggs are good for consumption. There is even an argument going on concerning how the Grand Canyon was formed. Many support a worldwide flood, others a localized flood, while some claim no flood at all. About all scientists do is argue among themselves.

 

[the_human_being]

In other words you can't do the math. I understand. I am used to you scientific types that can't do math. The answer is infinity. The odds against it ever happening even over billions of years are so great that we have no number to express it.

You misuse math, a tool.
Math needs rational concepts to manipulate.

Mathematics can predict odds of occurrences. Math is a tool and is used to support many scientific facts - it simply will not support evolution.

Math supports evolution much better than a made up concept of "God ".

No, it really doesn't. Math actually disproves evolution.

No, math does not disprove "evolution"; as i said before, you have to establish valid concepts before using tools like math.
How do you use math to prove God exists? I'd love to see your equation.
LOL.

Google it. It's called the mathematics of probabilities. It is a course taught in college.

 

[Dr Grump]

Google it. It's called the mathematics of probabilities. It is a course taught in college.

There is absolutely no proof of a god. Only faith. There is plenty of scientific theory. And there are plenty of facts that support those positions. Don't believe me? There's this thing called gravity. It has been scientifically proven. Don't believe me? Get in a plane. Go to about 12,000 feet. Jump out without a parachute. See what happens. As you are falling to your certain death, ask your god to save you. See what happens.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Google it. It's called the mathematics of probabilities. It is a course taught in college.

There is absolutely no proof of a god. Only faith. There is plenty of scientific theory. And there are plenty of facts that support those positions. Don't believe me? There's this thing called gravity. It has been scientifically proven. Don't believe me? Get in a plane. Go to about 12,000 feet. Jump out without a parachute. See what happens. As you are falling to your certain death, ask your god to save you. See what happens.

Only the uneducated attempt to segregate science and God, the creator of science.

 

[turzovka]

Ahhh, which is more rational, the belief in invisible fairies, trolls, elves, leprechauns, ogres, deities and Santa Claus......
OR.....
the belief that science and the natural world are more rational.
I'll stick with science and the natural world.

Jonathan Swift (17th century English satirist) speaking of the achievements of science and its reflection upon its own laurels. ---- "And he, whose fortunes and dispositions have placed him in a convenient station to enjoy the fruits of this noble art; he that can with Epicurus content his ideas with the films and images that fly-off upon his senses from the superficies of things; such a man truly wise, creams off nature, leaving the sour and the dregs for philosophy and reason to lap up. This is the sublime and refined point of felicity, called, the possession of being well deceived; the serene peaceful state of being a fool among knaves."

What he is saying is that science is in the shallows while the answers to the purpose of life and what happens after death and the inexplicable manifestations that scream out supernatural --- all that is left for philosophy and reason to deal with. Theology is in the deep waters giving purpose and evidence for that purpose. By comparison, science’s value is nothing more than “a fool among knaves.”

 

[alang1216]

Sorry, but maybe 60% of scientists at best think species evolve into other species.

Really? Where does that number come from?

According to Wikipedia:

The vast majority of the scientific community and academia supports evolutionary theory as the only explanation that can fully account for observations in the fields of biology, paleontology, molecular biology, genetics, anthropology, and others.[19][20][21][22][23] One 1987 estimate found that "700 scientists ... (out of a total of 480,000 U.S. earth and life scientists) ... give credence to creation-science".[24] A 1991 Gallup poll found that about 5% of American scientists (including those with training outside biology) identified themselves as creationists.[25][26]