God is a Monstrous, Evil, Bloodthirsty Tyrant

[Sky Dancer]

why? a comment does not indicate a level of caring.

after all, i post to you.

QED

Absolutely true. All you care about is being hurtful. Go for it del. How does that feel to you? Good?

It wouldn't for me.

i know. it's hard being a perpetual victim.

What is God to you del? Does God love everyone, even the people you hate, like me? Hating the human beings behind the posts we don't agree with makes no sense to me.

Tell me all about your victim fantasies of me, del. How am I victim to you?

 

[del]

Absolutely true. All you care about is being hurtful. Go for it del. How does that feel to you? Good?

It wouldn't for me.

i know. it's hard being a perpetual victim.

What is God to you del? Does God love everyone, even the people you hate, like me? Hating the human beings behind the posts we don't agree with makes no sense to me.

you overrate your importance to a ludicrous degree.

to the extent that i have any feelings toward you at all, i guess pity would fit the best. thanks for asking

 

[Sky Dancer]

i know. it's hard being a perpetual victim.

What is God to you del? Does God love everyone, even the people you hate, like me? Hating the human beings behind the posts we don't agree with makes no sense to me.

you overrate your importance to a ludicrous degree.

to the extent that i have any feelings toward you at all, i guess pity would fit the best. thanks for asking

Thanks for you honesty dell. Since I don't need your pity, we have nothing more to say to each other. Pity is one of the most useless emotions on the planet.

 

[Si modo]

Absolutely true. All you care about is being hurtful. Go for it del. How does that feel to you? Good?

It wouldn't for me.

i know. it's hard being a perpetual victim.

What is God to you del? Does God love everyone, even the people you hate, like me? Hating the human beings behind the posts we don't agree with makes no sense to me.

Tell me all about your victim fantasies of me, del. How am I victim to you?

Many have pointed out your willful victimhood over the last several months.

 

[Si modo]

What is God to you del? Does God love everyone, even the people you hate, like me? Hating the human beings behind the posts we don't agree with makes no sense to me.

you overrate your importance to a ludicrous degree.

to the extent that i have any feelings toward you at all, i guess pity would fit the best. thanks for asking

Thanks for you honesty dell. Since I don't need your pity, we have nothing more to say to each other.

Did del hurt your feelings?

 

[Sky Dancer]

you overrate your importance to a ludicrous degree.

to the extent that i have any feelings toward you at all, i guess pity would fit the best. thanks for asking

Thanks for you honesty dell. Since I don't need your pity, we have nothing more to say to each other.

Did del hurt your feelings?

Good question. I'm considering it.

 

[del]

What is God to you del? Does God love everyone, even the people you hate, like me? Hating the human beings behind the posts we don't agree with makes no sense to me.

you overrate your importance to a ludicrous degree.

to the extent that i have any feelings toward you at all, i guess pity would fit the best. thanks for asking

Thanks for you honesty dell. Since I don't need your pity, we have nothing more to say to each other. Pity is one of the most useless emotions on the planet.

that's why i have so little of it

 

[Si modo]

Thanks for you honesty dell. Since I don't need your pity, we have nothing more to say to each other.

Did del hurt your feelings?

Good question. I'm considering it.

See, that is a big difference between you and me. I would not consider whether I was going to be hurt or not, because to do so would mean that I am making a conscious decision to BE hurt.

 

[Sky Dancer]

you overrate your importance to a ludicrous degree.

to the extent that i have any feelings toward you at all, i guess pity would fit the best. thanks for asking

Thanks for you honesty dell. Since I don't need your pity, we have nothing more to say to each other. Pity is one of the most useless emotions on the planet.

that's why i have so little of it

Save it for those who really need it. I don't del.

 

[daveman]

Absolutely true. All you care about is being hurtful. Go for it del. How does that feel to you? Good?

It wouldn't for me.

i know. it's hard being a perpetual victim.

What is God to you del? Does God love everyone, even the people you hate, like me? Hating the human beings behind the posts we don't agree with makes no sense to me.

Tell me all about your victim fantasies of me, del. How am I victim to you?

By claiming that people who disagree with your views hate you as a person.

You know, like you just did with del.

 

[koshergrl]

Well I suppose we will both know when we die. If I am right I will get to rub your nose in it in the afterlife, and if you are right neither of us will care. But my chances of being able to gloat about it seem better than yours.

Prove it.....when a person dies they're dead. That's why they call it dying. Do you reali e how goddam stupid it is for someone to actually talk about an afterlife. I'd sooner believe my neighbor was picked up by aliens and taken to another galaxy for a physical. Only two types of people believe in an afterlife. Those who were totally and helplessly brainwashed when they were an infant or small child and those who are very naive. 'Course the average IQ is 100. That means there are as many with an IQ below 100 as there are with one above. 100 ain't your sharpest knife in the drawer.

There is a show called "I survived: Beyond and Back" I believe it's on the Biography Channel. It tells the stories of people who have died and came back.... interesting stuff. The people were clinically dead... no heartbeat, no Brain activity.... Dead and brought back.

now... Could it be a chemical reaction that eases anxiety and fear that is involved in the process of dying? Possibly... but to sit there and say "I know there's nothing after death" is quite closed minded.

I love I Survived! I spent some time watching one episode after another (yes, including the "beyond and back") until there were no more left. I spent my time alternately in abject horror (random acts of incredible violence/terror/natural disaster/fire/rape/murder...I mean, it got to me after a while) and sobbing appreciation of just how smart, brave and tough people can be! I do believe every one of the "beyond and back" people walked away with a strong belief in God, including the ones who didn't have any previously.

 

[koshergrl]

i know. it's hard being a perpetual victim.

What is God to you del? Does God love everyone, even the people you hate, like me? Hating the human beings behind the posts we don't agree with makes no sense to me.

Tell me all about your victim fantasies of me, del. How am I victim to you?

By claiming that people who disagree with your views hate you as a person.

You know, like you just did with del.

She doesn't believe that. She does it to manipulate people.

Imagine how much fun to have to live with her. Or have her as a (shuddder) "counselor". The thought of Sky ******* with suicidal people gives me nightmares. Seriously. I imagine a lot of harm can be laid right at her door.

 

[Dragon]

Obviously, you didn't get much out of your study.

(Sigh.)

This is really a bit tangential, but --

"So you must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." - Matthew 5:48

"There is no one who always does what is right, not even one." - Psalm 14

"But God has a way to make people right with him without the law, and he has now shown us that way which the law and the prophets told us about. God makes people right with himself through their faith in Jesus Christ. This is true for all who believe in Christ, because all people are the same: Everyone has sinned and fallen short of God's glorious standard, and all need to be made right with God by his grace, which is a free gift. They need to be made free from sin through Jesus Christ." - Romans 3:21-24

The standard of behavior within Christianity flows from this. It is impossible, through self-discipline, to live up to the standard set by God. Everyone is sinful, everyone has been condemned to perpetual torture. Only through God's grace and forgiveness through faith in Jesus Christ is there any hope of redemption.

This is not anything obscure. It's taught in the Catholic Church and all mainstream and major Evangelical Protestant churches. When you say that God expects only that people do their best, you are either referring to a reasonable expectation for Christians and not for all mankind (whereas I was referring to the latter), or you are presenting your own views outside of standard Christian doctrine.

God, according to traditional Christian theology, condemns most of mankind to scream forever in horrible torture. He gives Christians a pass, although (according to some sects) not even all of them. In any case, most people aren't Christians, and so are condemned to eternal suffering.

These are the acts of a monstrous, evil, bloodthirsty tyrant -- and that is how traditional Christian theology sees God. That he offers forgiveness to those relatively few who will worship Christ does not make him a loving God.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Obviously, you didn't get much out of your study.

(Sigh.)

This is really a bit tangential, but --

"So you must be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." - Matthew 5:48

"There is no one who always does what is right, not even one." - Psalm 14

"But God has a way to make people right with him without the law, and he has now shown us that way which the law and the prophets told us about. God makes people right with himself through their faith in Jesus Christ. This is true for all who believe in Christ, because all people are the same: Everyone has sinned and fallen short of God's glorious standard, and all need to be made right with God by his grace, which is a free gift. They need to be made free from sin through Jesus Christ." - Romans 3:21-24

The standard of behavior within Christianity flows from this. It is impossible, through self-discipline, to live up to the standard set by God. Everyone is sinful, everyone has been condemned to perpetual torture. Only through God's grace and forgiveness through faith in Jesus Christ is there any hope of redemption.

This is not anything obscure. It's taught in the Catholic Church and all mainstream and major Evangelical Protestant churches. When you say that God expects only that people do their best, you are either referring to a reasonable expectation for Christians and not for all mankind (whereas I was referring to the latter), or you are presenting your own views outside of standard Christian doctrine.

God, according to traditional Christian theology, condemns most of mankind to scream forever in horrible torture. He gives Christians a pass, although (according to some sects) not even all of them. In any case, most people aren't Christians, and so are condemned to eternal suffering.

These are the acts of a monstrous, evil, bloodthirsty tyrant -- and that is how traditional Christian theology sees God. That he offers forgiveness to those relatively few who will worship Christ does not make him a loving God.

I get your point. IMO, you are rejecting the notion of a God who would condemn most of his own Creations to hell. (Feel free to correct me if I'm off base)

It is the concept of God that you want to discuss. It is the concept of God as he is portrayed in the OT that you have a tough time with.

Not everyone views God the same way even those who call themselves Jews or Christians.

What is YOUR view of what God is or isn't?

 

[Dragon]

I get your point. IMO, you are rejecting the notion of a God who would condemn most of his own Creations to hell. (Feel free to correct me if I'm off base)

So far, so good.

It is the concept of God that you want to discuss. It is the concept of God as he is portrayed in the OT that you have a tough time with.

Not just the Old Testament, but parts of the New Testament as well, including the implications of that passage from Paul's letter to the Romans that I quoted above. Also, it's implied in traditional Christian doctrine: God condemns all mankind to Hell because all are sinful, but, because the sacrifice of Christ provides atonement on behalf of mankind, those who worship him get a pass. This is central to the Christian doctrine taught in most denominations.

Not everyone views God the same way even those who call themselves Jews or Christians.

Agreed. But many do. And it is that particular concept of God I wish to discuss, and point out that he is a monstrous, evil, bloodthirsty tyrant unworthy of worship.

One can call oneself a Christian and reject this concept of God (although some would say such people are not "real" Christians, including one or two people who have posted on this thread). It is by no means central to the teaching of Christ. But it is central to traditional Christianity.

What is YOUR view of what God is or isn't?

I have already expressed this and will go on doing so. I cannot, of course, lay it out in 25 words or less. God is too big to fit under my hat.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I get your point. IMO, you are rejecting the notion of a God who would condemn most of his own Creations to hell. (Feel free to correct me if I'm off base)

So far, so good.

It is the concept of God that you want to discuss. It is the concept of God as he is portrayed in the OT that you have a tough time with.

Not just the Old Testament, but parts of the New Testament as well, including the implications of that passage from Paul's letter to the Romans that I quoted above. Also, it's implied in traditional Christian doctrine: God condemns all mankind to Hell because all are sinful, but, because the sacrifice of Christ provides atonement on behalf of mankind, those who worship him get a pass. This is central to the Christian doctrine taught in most denominations.

Not everyone views God the same way even those who call themselves Jews or Christians.

Agreed. But many do. And it is that particular concept of God I wish to discuss, and point out that he is a monstrous, evil, bloodthirsty tyrant unworthy of worship.

One can call oneself a Christian and reject this concept of God (although some would say such people are not "real" Christians, including one or two people who have posted on this thread). It is by no means central to the teaching of Christ. But it is central to traditional Christianity.

What is YOUR view of what God is or isn't?

I have already expressed this and will go on doing so. I cannot, of course, lay it out in 25 words or less. God is too big to fit under my hat.

I may have missed the part where you explained your view of what God is and isn't. You're right, it's a big topic.

I am curious though, as to what you fear would happen if you were to just accept that some people view God differently from the way you do.

I agree with you, that it cannot be true, that God would condemn most of his creation to an eternal hell.

But my views are informed by many years of Buddhist teachings that even the hell realms are impermanent and that eventually, ALL beings, EACH and EVERY being without exception will become enlightened.

IMO, God is love, and no one who loves condemns another for eternity.

I find your view very interesting, and I'm sorry that you seem to take posters off track by angering so many of them.

 

[BluePhantom]

Agreed. But many do. And it is that particular concept of God I wish to discuss, and point out that he is a monstrous, evil, bloodthirsty tyrant unworthy of worship.

One can call oneself a Christian and reject this concept of God (although some would say such people are not "real" Christians, including one or two people who have posted on this thread). It is by no means central to the teaching of Christ. But it is central to traditional Christianity.

Well Christianity may be based on the teachings of Jesus but in actual practice the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Christianity are two completely different things. I would certainly agree that this concept of self-denial, self-sacrifice, fear of God, a jealous God, etc are unbelievably contrary to the concept of a loving God. I want a relationship with God because I have searched myself and determined that it reflects who I truly am and I want to do so out of joy and excitement. I have no interest in fostering a relationship with God that is based in "do it or else". I could not agree with you more. That's not a loving God....that's a tyrant.

 

[Dragon]

I am curious though, as to what you fear would happen if you were to just accept that some people view God differently from the way you do.

I like to define terms operationally, in terms of action. Thus "accept" can mean, as operationally defined:

1) Not punish
2) Not argue against

I am perfectly happy to "accept" that some people view God in this way in the first operational sense; I recommend no punishment for this belief. However, it is simply not appropriate, in my opinion, to "accept" in the sense of not arguing against it.

IMO, God is love, and no one who loves condemns another for eternity.

My point exactly.

I find your view very interesting, and I'm sorry that you seem to take posters off track by angering so many of them.

Whereas my sense is that if I had not angered them, I would not have expressed things with sufficient clarity. Their anger is the flip side of the fear that keeps their minds in chains.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I am curious though, as to what you fear would happen if you were to just accept that some people view God differently from the way you do.

I like to define terms operationally, in terms of action. Thus "accept" can mean, as operationally defined:

1) Not punish
2) Not argue against

I am perfectly happy to "accept" that some people view God in this way in the first operational sense; I recommend no punishment for this belief. However, it is simply not appropriate, in my opinion, to "accept" in the sense of not arguing against it.

IMO, God is love, and no one who loves condemns another for eternity.

My point exactly.

I find your view very interesting, and I'm sorry that you seem to take posters off track by angering so many of them.

Whereas my sense is that if I had not angered them, I would not have expressed things with sufficient clarity. Their anger is the flip side of the fear that keeps their minds in chains.

Dragon--

I doubt the people you've angered agree that their minds are in chains, or that they are fear motivated.

I do understand how anger creates a kind of clarity. In Buddhism, anger transformed to it's essence is clarity, and wisdom.

I get the sense that you're on a mission to wake them up, and I don't think they're interested in being roused from their beliefs.

I don't think you have to accept people in the sense of not arguing with them. But when you say such inflammatory things about their God of the Bible they may feel punished by you for their views.

Just sayin'....

 

[Dragon]

I doubt the people you've angered agree that their minds are in chains, or that they are fear motivated.

I am sure you are right. I am equally sure that I don't care.

I get the sense that you're on a mission to wake them up

Not necessarily. I am merely expressing certain truths. What people do with those truths is not my responsibility.

But when you say such inflammatory things about their God of the Bible they may feel punished by you for their views.

If they do, that's their problem. Honestly, I'm not here to get along with everyone.