Georgia Supreme Court Rejects Trump-Aligned Effort To Require Poll Workers To Hand Count Ballots In November.

[WorldWatcher]

Horseshit.

This is not a hand count and it does not require hiring additional people. This is a procedure for securing the ballots and labeling the contents of the container, after the tabulation is complete, and before transferring them from the precinct to the place of storage.

The people in charge actually have to sign off that the contents are as claimed, which is a NO-BRAINER!


5. The poll manager and two witnesses who have been sworn as poll officers as provided in O.C.G.A. §§ 21-2-94 and 21-2-95 shall unseal and open each ballot box, remove the paper ballots from each ballot box, and place the paper ballots into a durable, portable, secure and sealable container to be provided for transport to the office of the election superintendent. A separate container shall be used for the paper ballots from each ballot box and the container shall be labelled with the polling place, ballot scanner serial number, the number assigned to the ballot scanner for that election, the count of the ballots from the tabulation tape, and the date and time that the ballot box was emptied. The container shall be sealed and signed by the poll manager and the same two witnesses such that it cannot be opened without breaking the seal. The poll manager and the two witnesses shall sign a label affixed to the container indicating that it contains all of the correct ballots from the indicated ballot box and no additional ballots.
Ga. Comp. R. & Regs. 183-1-12-.12

"Amendment to Rule 183-1-12.12(a)(5)"

Rule 183-1-12-.12(a)(5) 5. The poll manager and two witnesses who have been sworn as poll officers as provided in O.C.G.A. § 21-2-94 and 21-2-95 shall unseal and open each scanner ballot box, remove the paper ballots from each ballot box, record the date and time that the ballot box was emptied and present to three sworn precinct poll officers to independently count the total number of ballots removed from the scanner, sorting into stacks of 50 ballots, continuing until all of the ballots have been counted separately by each of the three poll officers. When all three poll officers arrive at the same total ballot count independently, they shall each sign a control document containing the polling place, ballot scanner serial number, election name, printed name with signature and date and time of the ballot hand count. If the numbers recorded on the precinct poll pads, ballot marking devices [BMDs] and scanner recap forms do not reconcile with the hand count ballot totals, the poll manager shall immediately determine the reason for the inconsistency; correct the inconsistency, if possible; and fully document the inconsistency or problem along with any corrective measures taken. A separate container shall be used for the hand counted paper ballots from each ballot box and the container shall be labelled with the polling place, ballot scanner serial number, the number assigned to the ballot scanner for that election, the scanner counts of the ballots from the tabulation tape, and the hand count ballot total as certified by the three poll officials. The container shall be sealed and signed by the poll manager and two of the three hand count poll officers such that it cannot be opened without breaking the seal. The poll manager and two witnesses shall sign a label affixed to the container indicating that it contains all the hand counted ballots from the indicated scanner box and no additional ballots.

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[ThisIsMe]

It does chaos at the last minute because none of it wasn’t funded or planned out, no procedures for the workers, the need for additional workers, no training materials, etc.

Fund the additional futures, provide training for the additional workers (which is paid time), and fund the additional work time as you need more people to get it done in the allotted time.

Last minute changes are of course to sow chaos.

WW

So then you agree the last minute changes in 2020 in some states, were to sow chaos as well?

 

[ThisIsMe]

We’ve had so boxes since the Civil War.

How are you going to fund video monitoring of every USPS box which are drop boxes?

WW

That’s up for the states to figure out, but if a state wants to do it, they shouldn’t be prohibited.

 

[WorldWatcher]

That’s up for the states to figure out, but if a state wants to do it, they shouldn’t be prohibited.

It's not the "State" it was the Election Board, and ya, if the "State" wants it "State" has to figure out funding for acquisition, installation, archiving, and maintenance. Technology ain't free.

They aren't prohibited. The stay is because of the last minute rule changes by the election board, these were not changes made by the legislature.

The intent was to require the removal of drop boxes because there was no video feed for this election. Clearly an attempt to suppress drop box voting***. Nothing is the legislature from mandating such a law in the future, or for the election board to go through the proper procedures of pubic hearings, agendas, and comment period.

WW

 

[WorldWatcher]

So then you agree the last minute changes in 2020 in some states, were to sow chaos as well?

No, I don't agree. To equate to the silliness of the Georgia Boards action right before an election to 2020 is not a good comparison.

The changes in 2020 were to address a world wide pandemic that was killing thousands of people a week. In 2020 over 350,000 people died in the US because of of COVID. To attempt to equate the two is just sick.

WW

 

[para bellum]

"Amendment to Rule 183-1-12.12(a)(5)"

Rule 183-1-12-.12(a)(5) 5. The poll manager and two witnesses who have been sworn as poll officers as provided in O.C.G.A. § 21-2-94 and 21-2-95 shall unseal and open each scanner ballot box, remove the paper ballots from each ballot box, record the date and time that the ballot box was emptied and present to three sworn precinct poll officers to independently count the total number of ballots removed from the scanner, sorting into stacks of 50 ballots, continuing until all of the ballots have been counted separately by each of the three poll officers. When all three poll officers arrive at the same total ballot count independently, they shall each sign a control document containing the polling place, ballot scanner serial number, election name, printed name with signature and date and time of the ballot hand count. If the numbers recorded on the precinct poll pads, ballot marking devices [BMDs] and scanner recap forms do not reconcile with the hand count ballot totals, the poll manager shall immediately determine the reason for the inconsistency; correct the inconsistency, if possible; and fully document the inconsistency or problem along with any corrective measures taken. A separate container shall be used for the hand counted paper ballots from each ballot box and the container shall be labelled with the polling place, ballot scanner serial number, the number assigned to the ballot scanner for that election, the scanner counts of the ballots from the tabulation tape, and the hand count ballot total as certified by the three poll officials. The container shall be sealed and signed by the poll manager and two of the three hand count poll officers such that it cannot be opened without breaking the seal. The poll manager and two witnesses shall sign a label affixed to the container indicating that it contains all the hand counted ballots from the indicated scanner box and no additional ballots.

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Thank you, I had not seen that. I was looking at the procedures in place at the time of the suit.

I agree that is cumbersome, but it was not the rule in effect at the time of the court's judgement. It is a proposed change, and it gave them a week to do the count after the polls closed.

Believe it or not, if that was to take effect on 10/24, I do agree with the court. Only because hand-counting in that manner is overly cumbersome when there are machines that can do the job faster and more accurately.

An independent count that is separate from the tabulators is still a good idea, and the sloppy documentation they had in 2020 has to end.

I will add this: As long as the ballots are printed on the same paper (which should always be the case), getting an accurate count is trivial even without a dedicated machine. Any electronic height gage or caliper or micrometer will give you an accurate thickness of a stack of ballots, and it is very simple to derive the count from the thickness of the stack.

So-called "ballot-on-demand", where plain paper ballots are allowed, should be done away with entirely. Ballots should be printed on official paper with anti-counterfeiting features like watermarks or other features that make counterfeiting more difficult.

Give ballots the same respect we give our currency.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Thank you, I had not seen that. I was looking at the procedures in place at the time of the suit.

I agree that is cumbersome, but it was not the rule in effect at the time of the court's judgement. It is a proposed change, and it gave them a week to do the count after the polls closed.

Believe it or not, if that was to take effect on 10/24, I do agree with the court. Only because hand-counting in that manner is overly cumbersome when there are machines that can do the job faster and more accurately.

An independent count that is separate from the tabulators is still a good idea, and the sloppy documentation they had in 2020 has to end.

I can agree that over time a separate machine count of ballots as part of the post election Quality Assurance process should not a problem once funding, the additional training, and the man-hours evaluated to determine if additional personnel are needed. It's the short time frame and unfunded mandate that is the problem.

I will add this: As long as the ballots are printed on the same paper (which should always be the case), getting an accurate count is trivial even without a dedicated machine. Any electronic height gage or caliper or micrometer will give you an accurate thickness of a stack of ballots, and it is very simple to derive the count from the thickness of the stack.

So-called "ballot-on-demand", where plain paper ballots are allowed, should be done away with entirely. Ballots should be printed on official paper with anti-counterfeiting features like watermarks or other features that make counterfeiting more difficult.

Give ballots the same respect we give our currency.

I can't speak for the whole country, but here in Virginia BOD (Ballot's on Demand) are not printed on plan paper, they are printed on the same security paper as regular ballots. Just the Ballot Stock is blank and procedures are in place so that Ballot Stock is controlled and accounted for.

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https://www.elections.virginia.gov/media/formswarehouse/ballot-on-demand-/Ballot-on-Demand-Systems_SecurityGuidanceDoc_rev8_23.pdf

 

[para bellum]

I can't speak for the whole country, but here in Virginia BOD (Ballot's on Demand) are not printed on plan paper, they are printed on the same security paper as regular ballots. Just the Ballot Stock is blank and procedures are in place so that Ballot Stock is controlled and accounted for.

That should be the standard everywhere, unfortunately it's not that way.

As long as the paper is consistent, getting an accurate count would be quick and easy by simply measuring the thickness of the stack. It would be more accurate than hand counting, and measuring devices with SPC outputs are commonplace. The person doing the counting would only have to press a button to record the count. A printout of the tally would be dropped into each box before it's sealed.

 

[para bellum]

I'm not the guy that says "get rid of the machines". To me, that is stupid. Machines are faster and more accurate than people.

I want ISO9001 compliant processes, designed so that people of average intelligence can get consistent and high-quality results.

I harp on it al the time. Quality is not about people, it's about process.