I never said that everyone gets a fair trial. If everyone got a fair trial you wouldn't have innocent people languishing in prison for crimes they didn't commit. And I do keep an open mind, I just happen to believe the opposite of the evidence. No harm in that, and certainly no reason to call me a 'twit' simply because you disagree with me.
George Zimmerman's bloody head
- Thread starter MarcATL
- Start date
I never said that everyone gets a fair trial. If everyone got a fair trial you wouldn't have innocent people languishing in prison for crimes they didn't commit. And I do keep an open mind, I just happen to believe the opposite of the evidence. No harm in that, and certainly no reason to call me a 'twit' simply because you disagree with me.
California Girl
Rookie
- Oct 8, 2009
- 50,337
- 10,059
- 0
- Banned
- #3,522
There remains absolutely no evidence of wrong doing by Zimmerman. None. That's what the facts currently available show. Nothing. You are welcome to 'believe' otherwise but that just makes you stupid.
He was instructed to remain in his car until the cops arrived, yet he went after Trayvon. He is the one who initiated the confrontation, therefore, he is responsible for the death of Trayvon. You cannot put yourself in a dangerous situation and then expect to get away with killing someone. If he had stayed in his car, there would have been no confrontation and a 17 yr old kid would still be alive.
That is something Zimmerman is likely to get roasted for - assuming he testifies which is highly unlikely.
California Girl
Rookie
- Oct 8, 2009
- 50,337
- 10,059
- 0
- Banned
- #3,524
It would have been impossible for him to 'remain in his car' - he wasn't in his car when he called 911. He was not 'instructed' to remain anywhere. He was advised by the operator that they 'didn't need him to' follow Martin. At which point, he says, he stopped following Martin and started to return to his car.
According to Zimmerman's account - and there currently remains no evidence against his account - he stopped following Martin. At that point, the 'confrontation' was over. According to Zimmerman (and evidence, including witness statements) it was Martin who then confronted him. At that point, it's on Martin as to what happened.
idb
Gold Member
- Dec 26, 2010
- 14,986
- 2,590
- 265
It looks like you've already made up your mind, contrary to your earlier statement - liar.
California Girl
Rookie
- Oct 8, 2009
- 50,337
- 10,059
- 0
- Banned
- #3,526
No, I haven't. I have - on numerous occasions - said we do not have ALL the evidence so no one of a rational mind can decide guilt or innocence. What I do say, and will continue to say, is that - on the evidence available - there is nothing that suggests he is guilty of the charges he faces. I remain open minded... but I'm gonna call out the morons who are running with the 'trial by media' bullshit.
paperview
Life is Good
According to Zimmerman's account? You don't even have Zimmerman's account accurate. No wonder you're con-fused.
WorldWatcher
Platinum Member
First of all let me agree with you on a couple of basic points:
First we do not have all the evidence as yet, and that is what the legal process is for. All the evidence will be presented and then the Judge (self-defense hearing) and the Jury (if it goes all the way to trial) will review and then make their decision. That process should continue and the decision made on the fact and not the race baiting which has occurred from the pros and cons on the case.
Secondly, at this point in time and given the evidence that has been released to the pubic, it is my opinion that the state will have a difficult time making Murder 2 charges stick because they will have a responsibility to prove "depraved disregard for human life". Now if the Jury is allowed to consider lesser included charges, such as Manslaughter or Voluntary Homicide, then that could be problematic for Zimmerman.
With the above stated there are issues with the various version of Zimmerman story ones where more evidence may be forthcoming and evidence already released that will need to be explained in court by experts because they don't support Zimmerman's version of events.
You claim that there is no evidence that conflicts with his account, that is untrue. Here is some.
1. Your statement is incorrect, he didn't call "911" he called the non-emergency number (which really has no bearing on evidence).
2. Your statement is incorrect, review the audio of his call, his written statement, and his video reenactment, he was in his car when he called the dispatcher. First he followed Martin in his vehicle, then when Martin ran, he exited his truck and continued to follow on foot.
3. Watch the video reenactment and then compare to his written statement. In the statement he says Martin punched him in the face, knocking him down on his back and that Martin then mounted him. However in the video reenactment Zimmerman points out where Martin, supposedly, punched him and mounted him. However that is a long distance away from where Martin's body was actually found. (Which was much farther down the darkened sidewalk.)
******************************************************
4. Forensics:
Here is the situation that we are led to believe. At the time of the shooting Martin is straddling Zimmerman on top with his hands on the sides of Zimmerman's head beating it against the ground. Now close your eyes and think for a minute. Matin's height (autopsy report) was 71" (5 foot 11 inches). I'm 5'11" and the length of my arms (shoulder to writs is about 22 inches), to the palms is about 24". Now someone on top of someone else wouldn't be leaning back to be able to beat someone's head in front of them on the ground - they would be leaning forward. So Zimmerman is under Martin and their chests are 12"-18" (maximum 22") between their chests.
A. Bullet Path: Lay on your back and imagine pulling a weapon from a hip holster. Your elbow will be at approximately 90 degrees. Release the weapon, pull the weapon, release the safety/**** the weapon, lift the weapon to contact the body of the person over you. The natural rotation of the arm will place the muzzle of the gun (a) more to the side, and (b) lower in the abdomen. That would provide a bullet path that should be (through Martin's body) from left to right and likely from lower to higher. Yet the autopsy report shows the bullet entered center of the chest (actually just left of center) and about 1" below the line between the nipples. That means Zimmerman had to bring the gun up between the bodies and then angle it "down" (relative to Z's body) toward his feet since Zimmerman's chest and Martin's chest were on two different planes. In a time of panic during a fight, such additional movement of the weapon and the odd wrist angle needed seems, IMHO, odd.
B. Lack of GSR: Again Zimmerman is below Martin and their chest are 12"-18" apart. If Zimmerman were to discharge a weapon in the tight space between the bodies then there blowback and gravity would have resulted in GSR being deposited on the chest area of Zimmerman's jacket and/or shirt. Yet forensic analysis of Zimmerman's clothes showed no GSR evidence on the chest area. (Chemical analysis found one microscopic particle of lead on the rear of Zimmerman's jacket upper right sleeve.)
B. Lack of GSR: Again Zimmerman is below Martin and their chest are 12"-18" apart. If Zimmerman were to discharge a weapon in the tight space between the bodies then there blowback and gravity would have resulted in GSR being deposited on the chest area of Zimmerman's jacket and/or shirt. Yet forensic analysis of Zimmerman's clothes showed no GSR evidence on the chest area. (Chemical analysis found one microscopic particle of lead on the rear of Zimmerman's jacket upper right sleeve.)
Now, from a logic stand point what do the combination of those two items possibly indicate? The scenario as indicated means that bullet path should have been different and that GSR should have been detected on Zimmerman's clothes. So the evidence is inconsistent with the story. So how do you arrive at a different path (straight on chest shot) and no GSR on the jacket. One possibility (<<-- Possibility), is that first the orientation of Zimmerman and Martin were (as a function of the body orientation were more parallel. The head to foot orientation could be the same or different, the important point is that the plane of their chests was more closely the same. Lack of GSR on the chest of Zimmerman could be achieved if Zimmerman's arm was extended away from his body and Zimmerman wasn't below the gun (to remove gravity causing particles to fall on him). This situation could (<<-- could) be achieved if Zimmerman and Martin were separated, for example Zimmerman pushed Martin off or if Martin was attempting to disengage. So if Zimmerman pushed Martin off to the side (creating separation) then Zimmerman pulls his weapon, extends his arm and shoots for center of mass. The accounts for a more straight path shot and the lack of GSR on Zimmerman's clothes.
[DISCLAIMER: Raw evidence has been released. Experts will be providing testimony at trial (for both the prosecution and defense) as to how forensic evidence can be interpreted. I would recommend watching the forensics section very closely.)
********************************************************
5. Time/distance analysis. If you take Zimmerman's statements about what happened and plot them as a function of time and distance, they do not match-up very well. In other words, Zimmerman could not have followed the paths that he described in the video from the time-stamped point where he exited the truck (dispatcher call) to the time stamped shoot being fired (neighbor 911 call) to the event spot in the measured time frame.
6. Phone calls. There are phone records showing that Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend during the event. However none of Zimmerman's versions of events account for Martin being on the phone. As a matter of fact records show Martin was on the phone talking to his girlfriend at the exact time he says that Martin attacked him.
7. Girlfriends Testimony - contested. Whether the girlfriend will be able to testify to what Martin told her is yet to be determined. Defense will move to exclude, the prosecution will move to include - that will be up to the Judge. If included it provides two things: (a) direct evidence that conflicts with Zimmerman's version of the initial contact, and (b) evidence that Zimmerman followed and confronted Martin.
8. Girlfriends Testimony non-contested. Even if her testimony about Martin's side of the conversation is excluded, she will still be able to testify about multiple things which are damaging to Zimmerman's story. She will of course be able to testify that the call occurred and phone records will show Martin was talking to her at the time Zimmerman says he was being attacked which is independently supported by phone records. Secondly she will be able to testify to what she directly heard which will include Zimmerman's voice and what he said. This would not be hearsay, and Zimmerman can elect to take the stand to provide his side of what he said.
9. Addresses. This will be an interesting one to watch. There are only three streets in the community Zimmerman lived in for over 2-years (Retreat View Circle, Twin Trees Lane, and Long Oak Way) and for which he was the Neighborhood Watch Captin. Yet he claimed after the event that he couldn't remember the name of 1 of 2 streets (2 since he was not on the street he lived on). Now he claimed he was looking for an address, he he proceed around behind houses to find and address into a darkened area where (a) there are no street signs, and (b) there are no house numbers. Street signs are located at intersections. The two nearest intersections where Retreat View Circle/Twin Trees Lane which was West, back the way they had come or Twin Trees Lane/Long Oak Way which was South from where his truck was parked. He traveled East. In addition his truck was parked across the street from a street lamp providing illumination and looking at the reenactment video you can clearly see that each house has (a) numbers mounted next to the garage and (b) lights next to the garage door. Yet he went behind the houses to a darkened area to find an address? Make no sense.
10. Stopping. You claim he stopped when the dispatcher told him not to follow Martin and that he returned to his truck. That dispatcher statement was 18-seconds after the exiting the truck. It is incorrect to state that Zimmerman's stopped and begain returning to his truck per his own statements (written, audio, and video) which clearly show that under his own words he continued away from the truck to the darkened area behind the houses.
OK, well that's about all I've got off the top of my head. Inconsistencies, conflicting accounts, direct forensics that undermine his story. I'll be more than happy to let letal system play this out and for Zimmerman to make his self-defense case to the Judge and, if it goes that far, to the jury of his peers that will decide the case.
>>>>
Last edited:
Inthemiddle
Rookie
- Oct 4, 2011
- 6,354
- 675
- 0
- Banned
- #3,529
I realize that's what you believe. But it's of no ******* consequence.
beagle9
Diamond Member
- Nov 28, 2011
- 51,368
- 20,782
- 2,290
You believed Casey Anthony was innocent eh? Good googly moogly, I really feel sorry for anyone who feels this way, but then again I don't feel sorry for someone that feels this way at all either, I just feel sadness for them.
There is no way that woman was innocent, but due to many many trial problems, technicailities and so on and so forth (creating a circus atmosphere and a confusion of great magnitude to boot), somehow it ended up going her way so very shockingly. OJ was also guilty to, and he also escaped justice in that case just as well, and all because of yet another sad case that ended up tainted, but everyone knows now that he done it alright, and he had help doing it as most did find out or learned also in that trial. These are most of the nations opinions upon these trials, yet it is that judicial proceedings were brought in these cases, and rules were followed as best as they could be, thus rendering the verdicts that were given in which people did abide by afterwards, just as it should be.
These people even though not convicted will now live their own hell on earth for what they have done, and trust me they are living in hell now upon this earth, because they know in their minds they are guilty, where as the hell they now are living is found now cemented forever into their own minds. I look for Casey Anthony to possibly commit suicide someday maybe, unless she uses this time to stay away from the devil as long as she can, in which will be the only reason she keeps herself going until the terrible day of judgement in which will come finally, and this by the one who does see directly into her soul as well as the rest of these peoples souls who are guilty as well. People can run, but they can't hide from the one who knows, no matter what happens upon this earth for them.
These are my opinions, but I will abide by the verdicts rendered even though I dis-agreed with them big time ( as so many millions of others in America and out in the world dis-agreed with such verdicts to), but like everyone should, it best they do abide by them on into the future in order to keep the laws intact, and the judicial system running regardless of it's human falibilities.
bobgnote
Rookie
- Nov 24, 2008
- 1,258
- 38
- 0
- Banned
- #3,531
Thank you, Chief, for the best impromptu recount, of State v. GZ consensus information.
What a contrast, between that and the 200+ pages, of GZ-weazy rants, which I believe reflect, on how courts actually operate, with arranged convictions or arranged immunity, for those discriminated, either for or against, whereby judges and attorneys simply decide which facts and law will apply, so they can make a lot of money, including off continuances and prison industry.
But in State v. GZ, the Feds and the public are watching. This trial might be straight. Thanks to paperview and WorldWatcher, this thread is straight, after 236 pages.
What a contrast, between that and the 200+ pages, of GZ-weazy rants, which I believe reflect, on how courts actually operate, with arranged convictions or arranged immunity, for those discriminated, either for or against, whereby judges and attorneys simply decide which facts and law will apply, so they can make a lot of money, including off continuances and prison industry.
But in State v. GZ, the Feds and the public are watching. This trial might be straight. Thanks to paperview and WorldWatcher, this thread is straight, after 236 pages.
Last edited:
Againsheila
Gold Member
What about the witness that saw trayvon on top of zimmerman?
- Banned
- #3,533
You got it! You get out of your car near the lions on an African safari, what follows is on you. Just like getting out of the car with a f-ing cold (coon/Afro) nearby! F-ing animals. However, your analogy fails in that shooting a lion in self-defense would go unchallenged. Our laws treat Afros like people, because of obsessive lobbying by animal rights nuts.
Noomi, I'm glad we finally found something we agree on.
Againsheila
Gold Member
When and where did that happen?
WorldWatcher
Platinum Member
1. Just because a person is on top during a struggle, does not mean that person started it - only that at point in time they are "winning".
2. What about the witness that say Zimmerman on top of Martin?
>>>>
Againsheila
Gold Member
You mean the one who didn't see anything? The one that came out after the fact and told a complete fib? That one? Or the one that changed his story after his mom talked to him?
freedombecki
Let's go swimmin'!
I agree with you. But what puts me in Zimmerman's corner is the attending police report noting that Zimmerman's claims were backed up with evidence they found.
- Banned
- #3,538
That's nonsense. We have enough evidence to know beyond a reasonable doubt that both Zimmerman is innocent and that there isn't any unknown evidence which would show Zimmerman to be guilty.
We don't have all the evidence? Hypothetically, what evidence might we not have that could change the picture? Maybe Martians came to Earth and brainwashed us to make us think Zimmerman shot in self-defense?
WorldWatcher
Platinum Member
The one that saw the one on top rise after the shooting.
You mean "John" who first claimed he saw an MMA style beating and then retracted it - no, not him.
Since the witness is a full grown female, then no it wouldn't be the 13-year old boy.
>>>>
Contumacious
Radical Freedom
Christopher Serino, cop who said George Zimmerman should be charged, is transferred from investigative unit
(CBS) SANFORD, Fla. - The Sanford Police Department investigator who informed his superiors that he believed there was enough evidence to charge George Zimmerman with manslaughter for the shooting death of Trayvon Martin is being transferred from the investigative unit to the patrol division.
gee, such an oustanding detective , is going back to the beat.........., I wonder why
Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
.
(CBS) SANFORD, Fla. - The Sanford Police Department investigator who informed his superiors that he believed there was enough evidence to charge George Zimmerman with manslaughter for the shooting death of Trayvon Martin is being transferred from the investigative unit to the patrol division.
gee, such an oustanding detective , is going back to the beat.........., I wonder why
Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
.
Similar threads
New Topics
-
-
They Used Recycled Photos and Claimed They Showed a Girl's School in Iran- Started by excalibur
- Replies: 11
-
Tearful Olympian (and former Canadian who left for freedom) Kaillie Humphries awards Trump for supporting women's sport- Started by shockedcanadian
- Replies: 4
-
Well, this is what happens when the Emperor Has No Clothes. Or, the Greatest Dissent, Ever
- Started by excalibur
- Replies: 4
