George Zimmerman's bloody head

[Gadawg73]

If Zimmerman hadn't have got out of his car there would be no issue.
No question, all liability for a death lies with him.
It couldn't be more clear.

Could not be more clear you do not know the difference between the burden of proof in a civil liability case and a criminal case.
Wrongful death liability is in the civil courts. Preponderance of the evidence is the burden in those courts.
Criminal courts it is beyond a reasonable doubt.
In American liability is ONLY an issue in civil courts.
Liability has nothing to do with criminal charges.
But no offense to you as your post is typical of what is posted here. Most Americans do not have a clue as to the criminal code or the Constitution either.

 

[beagle9]

If Zimmerman hadn't have got out of his car there would be no issue.
No question, all liability for a death lies with him.
It couldn't be more clear.

Are there some supposed unwritten rules or guidelines in which to follow for any neighborhood watch captain I wonder, who in his task was to report on any suspicious looking characters in the neighborhood by calling 9-11, and this in order to report on what he thinks was a suspicious looking character in the area (all due to the crime in the area in which a watch person is appointed to police), and then when the person/suspect decides to flee the area once noticed he was being observed by this watch captain), the watch captain "Zimmerman" tries to keep him in his eyesights until the police arrive, but then the 911 operator fearing the unknown for Zimmerman (hearing his movement over the phone), asked if he is pursuing the suspect, Zimmerman said yes, where as this is when the operator tells Zimmerman "OK we don't need you to do that sir", in which Zimmerman replies and complies with the operator at that point "OK". After this we are all in unknown terrirtory for which we have only the one man dead and the other one injured as a result of (we don't actually know at this point what is beyond this time line exactly), because it is a puzzel trying to be put together, where many parts are misplaced and/or are even missing. Good luck everybody on figuring it out, as per all the post on this case in numbers there of, it is a doozy of a case for sure.

 

[beagle9]

We agree on that. Zimmerman and his wife left that out intentionally.
But since they did not spend any of it yet the act of deceit is not there.
Much ado about nothing. The system did their job. Big deal.
If I was the prosecutor I would have done the exact same thing. And I would ask again for the million dolar bond.
That is what they do. The scales of justice. Works for me.
But what argument is there to deny him bail on the 29th? He is not a flight risk.

He intentionally allowed the court to believe false information. That's not deceit? Since when did deceit require spending money? The judge, I think, explained it very clearly. Zimmerman has a demonstrated lack of respect for the law, and deceived the court already in this case. As such, his word is not sufficient to secure his appearance.

Yes, but looking at the human nature side of it, what would you had done if were Zimmerman looking to keep enough money to get a new start on, and this once this thing was all said and done ? Remember that these two people have been through it, couldn't even live at their home anylonger, and this out of fear of what was being done by those who already had come to conclusions themselves about Zimmerman, and this before they even knew the evidence or circumstances surrounding the case (i.e. spike lee and the panthers for example), doing what they were doing outside of the law, in which is no better than what they were accusing of Zimmerman to be doing that night as a watch captain for that community, where as they became just as guilty of the same thing they accuse Zimmerman of, in which could have gotten Zimmerman killed just as easy, but luckily it didn't for them, as they would now be going through the same situation themselves for their assumptive actions also.

 

[JimBowie1958]

We agree on that. Zimmerman and his wife left that out intentionally.
But since they did not spend any of it yet the act of deceit is not there.
Much ado about nothing. The system did their job. Big deal.
If I was the prosecutor I would have done the exact same thing. And I would ask again for the million dolar bond.
That is what they do. The scales of justice. Works for me.
But what argument is there to deny him bail on the 29th? He is not a flight risk.

He intentionally allowed the court to believe false information. That's not deceit? Since when did deceit require spending money? The judge, I think, explained it very clearly. Zimmerman has a demonstrated lack of respect for the law, and deceived the court already in this case. As such, his word is not sufficient to secure his appearance.

Yes, but looking at the human nature side of it, what would you had done if were Zimmerman looking to keep enough money to get a new start on, and this once this thing was all said and done ? Remember that these two people have been through it, couldn't even live at their home anylonger, and this out of fear of what was being done by those who already had come to conclusions themselves about Zimmerman, and this before they even knew the evidence or circumstances surrounding the case (i.e. spike lee and the panthers for example), doing what they were doing outside of the law, in which is no better than what Zimmerman was doing that night as a watch captain for that community, where as they became guilty of the same thing in which could have gotten Zimmerman killed just as easy, but luckily it didn't for them, as they would now be going through the same situation themselves for their assumptive actions also.

If you expect that jack ass to give you an honest answer you are wasting your time and lots of electrons.

 

[Liability]

If Zimmerman hadn't have got out of his car there would be no issue.
No question, all liability for a death lies with him.
It couldn't be more clear.

If that no-limit-nigga hadn't assaulted Zimmerman, there would be no issue.

Almost everyone on BOTH sides of the issue (and those firmly in the middle) consider you, Ariyucks, to be just a ******* lowlife scumbag asshole. Why the **** do you even bother to post? You have nothing useful, intelligent, funny or interesting to say. On your best days, all you do is suck dick.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Yes, but looking at the human nature side of it, what would you had done if were Zimmerman looking to keep enough money to get a new start on, and this once this thing was all said and done ?

That's a piss-poor excuse. It does not matter why he broke the law. The fact remains that Zimmerman willingly deceived the court. Why should the court believe that Zimmerman will appear, when he's already lied once so that he could get out of jail?

 

[Ariux]

That's a piss-poor excuse. It does not matter why he broke the law. The fact remains that Zimmerman willingly deceived the court. Why should the court believe that Zimmerman will appear, when he's already lied once so that he could get out of jail?

There's a reason Z's lawyer didn't immediately seek a new bail hearing. The dumb Jew-Hispanic has pissed on his credibility, especially regarding being a flight risk. He lied to the court about his funds and his a passport. Shame on that f-ing Democrat.

Doubly bad for Z is that he had already waived his right to a speedy trial, back when he thought he'd be waiting for trial outside of jail.

 

[WorldWatcher]

If Zimmerman hadn't have got out of his car there would be no issue.
No question, all liability for a death lies with him.
It couldn't be more clear.

Are there some supposed unwritten rules or guidelines in which to follow for any neighborhood watch captain I wonder, who in his task was to report on any suspicious looking characters in the neighborhood by calling 9-11, and this in order to report on what he thinks was a suspicious looking character in the area (all due to the crime in the area in which a watch person is appointed to police), and then when the person/suspect decides to flee the area once noticed he was being observed by this watch captain), the watch captain "Zimmerman" tries to keep him in his eyesights until the police arrive, but then the 911 operator fearing the unknown for Zimmerman (hearing his movement over the phone), asked if he is pursuing the suspect, Zimmerman said yes, where as this is when the operator tells Zimmerman "OK we don't need you to do that sir", in which Zimmerman replies and complies with the operator at that point "OK".

Actually, we know that Zimmerman did not comply with the dispatchers instructions based on situational awareness and time/distance analysis. The distances from Zimmerman truck, down Twin Trees Lane, up the sidewalk, and around the house to the back to arrive at the event site are known quantities. From the dispatcher recording it can be determined that Zimmerman's "OK" response to the dispatcher occurred 18-seconds after the sound of his exiting the truck. We also know by synchronizing his dispatcher call with those of the neighbors' 911 calls (they were to the same recording system) that the shot occurred approximately 3 minutes 30 seconds after the "OK" to the . Distance time analysis shows that Zimmerman could not have complied with the dispatcher as he ended up FARTHER from the truck then he would have traveled in 18-seconds.

We also have a witness reporting the Zimmerman approaching Martin.

After this we are all in unknown terrirtory for which we have only the one man dead and the other one injured as a result of (we don't actually know at this point what is beyond this time line exactly), because it is a puzzel trying to be put together, where many parts are misplaced and/or are even missing. Good luck everybody on figuring it out, as per all the post on this case in numbers there of, it is a doozy of a case for sure.

There are a couple of things that can be determined once some more information comes out.

1. **IF** Zimmerman's story told to the police that night is that Martin was hiding and jumped him (which is the version which the father said during an interview), then that will conflict with a witness statement. That could be very damaging to Zimmerman because during the police interview it is unlikely that he would have known that Martin was on the telephone at the time.

2. **IF** Zimmerman's story is that Martin was on top, then we have Martin's height from the autopsy report as 71" (5'11") which means the length of his arms would be 22-24" depending on whether it was a measurement to the wrist or palm. Now, for one person to be leaning over another means the chest's were 12-18" apart when the shot was fired - yet the autopsy report shows a straight path front to back instead of the side shot which would have been natural in such a position and that there was no Gun Shot Residue on the front of Zimmerman's Jacket/Shirt.​

>>>>

 

[Ariux]

Actually, we know that Zimmerman did not comply with the dispatchers instructions based on situational awareness and time/distance analysis. The distances from Zimmerman truck, down Twin Trees Lane, up the sidewalk, and around the house to the back to arrive at the event site are known quantities. From the dispatcher recording it can be determined that Zimmerman's "OK" response to the dispatcher occurred 18-seconds after the sound of his exiting the truck. We also know by synchronizing his dispatcher call with those of the neighbors' 911 calls (they were to the same recording system) that the shot occurred approximately 3 minutes 30 seconds after the "OK" to the . Distance time analysis shows that Zimmerman could not have complied with the dispatcher as he ended up FARTHER from the truck then he would have traveled in 18-seconds.

WW, Shithead, may I call you Shithead? Why is it you think that three minutes shows that Zimmerman didn't comply with the meaningless request by the police operator... But, you don't think that three minutes shows anything about the intentions of that piece-of-shit Afro, Travyon? Specifically, that Trayvon chose to engage Zimmerman?

The shooting occurred only about 18-seconds distance from Zimmerman's car. Only the shit in your skull which you use as a poor substitute for a brain could conclude that the shooting occurred further away than that. Essentially, Zimmerman was parked in front of a building and the shooting happened behind that same building.

1. **IF** Zimmerman's story told to the police that night is that Martin was hiding and jumped him (which is the version which the father said during an interview), then that will conflict with a witness statement. That could be very damaging to Zimmerman because during the police interview it is unlikely that he would have known that Martin was on the telephone at the time.

Shithead, has anyone ever told you that you're a moron? Even your mom? Anything the ho on the phone claims happened is worthless. Even taking her word, it's still possible that Trayvon approached Zimmerman with Zimmerman being unaware of the approach, and Zimmerman interpreted that as being jumped.

 

[beagle9]

Yes, but looking at the human nature side of it, what would you had done if were Zimmerman looking to keep enough money to get a new start on, and this once this thing was all said and done ?

That's a piss-poor excuse. It does not matter why he broke the law. The fact remains that Zimmerman willingly deceived the court. Why should the court believe that Zimmerman will appear, when he's already lied once so that he could get out of jail?

His lie got him out of jail ?

 

[WorldWatcher]

The shooting occurred only about 18-seconds distance from Zimmerman's car.

The shooting was over 100 yards from the truck.


The world record for the 100 yard dash is about 9.1 seconds set in 1964 by a world class athlete. Zimmerman's booking height was 5'8" and the police report from that night lists him at 200 lbs. Finally, he was carrying on a conversation with the dispatcher during that time with audio indications of him sprinting. No way he covered 100+ yards in 18-seconds.


Heads are good for things other that hat racks.



>>>>

 

[beagle9]

If Zimmerman hadn't have got out of his car there would be no issue.
No question, all liability for a death lies with him.
It couldn't be more clear.

Are there some supposed unwritten rules or guidelines in which to follow for any neighborhood watch captain I wonder, who in his task was to report on any suspicious looking characters in the neighborhood by calling 9-11, and this in order to report on what he thinks was a suspicious looking character in the area (all due to the crime in the area in which a watch person is appointed to police), and then when the person/suspect decides to flee the area once noticed he was being observed by this watch captain), the watch captain "Zimmerman" tries to keep him in his eyesights until the police arrive, but then the 911 operator fearing the unknown for Zimmerman (hearing his movement over the phone), asked if he is pursuing the suspect, Zimmerman said yes, where as this is when the operator tells Zimmerman "OK we don't need you to do that sir", in which Zimmerman replies and complies with the operator at that point "OK".

Actually, we know that Zimmerman did not comply with the dispatchers instructions based on situational awareness and time/distance analysis. The distances from Zimmerman truck, down Twin Trees Lane, up the sidewalk, and around the house to the back to arrive at the event site are known quantities. From the dispatcher recording it can be determined that Zimmerman's "OK" response to the dispatcher occurred 18-seconds after the sound of his exiting the truck. We also know by synchronizing his dispatcher call with those of the neighbors' 911 calls (they were to the same recording system) that the shot occurred approximately 3 minutes 30 seconds after the "OK" to the . Distance time analysis shows that Zimmerman could not have complied with the dispatcher as he ended up FARTHER from the truck then he would have traveled in 18-seconds.

We also have a witness reporting the Zimmerman approaching Martin.

After this we are all in unknown terrirtory for which we have only the one man dead and the other one injured as a result of (we don't actually know at this point what is beyond this time line exactly), because it is a puzzel trying to be put together, where many parts are misplaced and/or are even missing. Good luck everybody on figuring it out, as per all the post on this case in numbers there of, it is a doozy of a case for sure.

There are a couple of things that can be determined once some more information comes out.

1. **IF** Zimmerman's story told to the police that night is that Martin was hiding and jumped him (which is the version which the father said during an interview), then that will conflict with a witness statement. That could be very damaging to Zimmerman because during the police interview it is unlikely that he would have known that Martin was on the telephone at the time.

2. **IF** Zimmerman's story is that Martin was on top, then we have Martin's height from the autopsy report as 71" (5'11") which means the length of his arms would be 22-24" depending on whether it was a measurement to the wrist or palm. Now, for one person to be leaning over another means the chest's were 12-18" apart when the shot was fired - yet the autopsy report shows a straight path front to back instead of the side shot which would have been natural in such a position and that there was no Gun Shot Residue on the front of Zimmerman's Jacket/Shirt.​

>>>>

World, could it have been that Zimmerman somehow could have gotten himself off of the ground, and would have broke apart from the struggle before delivering the fatal shot that killed Martin (both being in a standing position at this point) ?

 

[Ariux]

The shooting occurred only about 18-seconds distance from Zimmerman's car.

The shooting was over 100 yards from the truck.


The world record for the 100 yard dash is about 9.1 seconds set in 1964 by a world class athlete. Zimmerman's booking height was 5'8" and the police report from that night lists him at 200 lbs. Finally, he was carrying on a conversation with the dispatcher during that time with audio indications of him sprinting. No way he covered 100+ yards in 18-seconds.
>>>>

Shithead, AKA WorldWatcher, it's trivial for a healthy person to move at half a world-record-pace, which is all your numbers require. In this case, given your numbers, would be about 11mph. Granted, Z was obese (because you're a shithead, you'll reject this the moment we're talking about whether obese Zimmerman would attempt to physically challenge the taller and ideal-weight ape-like Travyon), but 11mph isn't outside the possibility a young-ish obese man for 18 seconds.

The above math is irrelevant, Shithead. We're not talking about precisely 100 yards and 18 seconds. We're talking about something under 100 yards in 18 seconds vs. three minutes. There's no evidence that Zimmerman was ever very far from his car. But, Trayvon should have been long gone, unless he intended to confront Zimmerman - which proves you're a shithead.

 

[WorldWatcher]

The shooting occurred only about 18-seconds distance from Zimmerman's car.

The shooting was over 100 yards from the truck.


The world record for the 100 yard dash is about 9.1 seconds set in 1964 by a world class athlete. Zimmerman's booking height was 5'8" and the police report from that night lists him at 200 lbs. Finally, he was carrying on a conversation with the dispatcher during that time with audio indications of him sprinting. No way he covered 100+ yards in 18-seconds.
>>>>

Shithead, AKA WorldWatcher, it's trivial for a healthy person to move at half a world-record-pace, which is all your numbers require. In this case, given your numbers, would be about 11mph. Granted, Z was obese (because you're a shithead, you'll reject this the moment we're talking about whether obese Zimmerman would attempt to physically challenge the taller and ideal-weight ape-like Travyon), but 11mph isn't outside the possibility a young-ish obese man for 18 seconds.

The above math is irrelevant, Shithead. We're not talking about precisely 100 yards and 18 seconds. We're talking about something under 100 yards in 18 seconds vs. three minutes. There's no evidence that Zimmerman was ever very far from his car. But, Trayvon should have been long gone, unless he intended to confront Zimmerman - which proves you're a shithead.

1. The truck was over 100 yards, not under.

2. Secondly, the claim I was responding to was that Zimmerman complied with the dispatcher at the 18-second point. Zimmerman would not have covered over 100 yards in that time while carrying on a conversation with the dispatcher during that time, the audio of Zimmerman's voice does not indicate he was running.

3. I agree, Zimmerman continued to move away from the truck after the 18-second replay to the dispatcher, which was my point to begin with.



>>>>

 

[WorldWatcher]

Are there some supposed unwritten rules or guidelines in which to follow for any neighborhood watch captain I wonder, who in his task was to report on any suspicious looking characters in the neighborhood by calling 9-11, and this in order to report on what he thinks was a suspicious looking character in the area (all due to the crime in the area in which a watch person is appointed to police), and then when the person/suspect decides to flee the area once noticed he was being observed by this watch captain), the watch captain "Zimmerman" tries to keep him in his eyesights until the police arrive, but then the 911 operator fearing the unknown for Zimmerman (hearing his movement over the phone), asked if he is pursuing the suspect, Zimmerman said yes, where as this is when the operator tells Zimmerman "OK we don't need you to do that sir", in which Zimmerman replies and complies with the operator at that point "OK".

Actually, we know that Zimmerman did not comply with the dispatchers instructions based on situational awareness and time/distance analysis. The distances from Zimmerman truck, down Twin Trees Lane, up the sidewalk, and around the house to the back to arrive at the event site are known quantities. From the dispatcher recording it can be determined that Zimmerman's "OK" response to the dispatcher occurred 18-seconds after the sound of his exiting the truck. We also know by synchronizing his dispatcher call with those of the neighbors' 911 calls (they were to the same recording system) that the shot occurred approximately 3 minutes 30 seconds after the "OK" to the . Distance time analysis shows that Zimmerman could not have complied with the dispatcher as he ended up FARTHER from the truck then he would have traveled in 18-seconds.

We also have a witness reporting the Zimmerman approaching Martin.

After this we are all in unknown terrirtory for which we have only the one man dead and the other one injured as a result of (we don't actually know at this point what is beyond this time line exactly), because it is a puzzel trying to be put together, where many parts are misplaced and/or are even missing. Good luck everybody on figuring it out, as per all the post on this case in numbers there of, it is a doozy of a case for sure.

There are a couple of things that can be determined once some more information comes out.

1. **IF** Zimmerman's story told to the police that night is that Martin was hiding and jumped him (which is the version which the father said during an interview), then that will conflict with a witness statement. That could be very damaging to Zimmerman because during the police interview it is unlikely that he would have known that Martin was on the telephone at the time.

2. **IF** Zimmerman's story is that Martin was on top, then we have Martin's height from the autopsy report as 71" (5'11") which means the length of his arms would be 22-24" depending on whether it was a measurement to the wrist or palm. Now, for one person to be leaning over another means the chest's were 12-18" apart when the shot was fired - yet the autopsy report shows a straight path front to back instead of the side shot which would have been natural in such a position and that there was no Gun Shot Residue on the front of Zimmerman's Jacket/Shirt.​

>>>>

World, could it have been that Zimmerman somehow could have gotten himself off of the ground, and would have broke apart from the struggle before delivering the fatal shot that killed Martin (both being in a standing position at this point) ?

The forensics, which I don't claim to be an expert on, show the barrel of the gun was pointed straight (perpendicular) to Martin's chest. That would call for an unnatural position of the hand/wrist when someone is supposedly on your chest, leaning over you, while their hands are on the side of your head flexing their arms to smash your head into the ground. The lack of GSR would be indicative of a straight arm shot with the gun discharged away and not over Zimmerman's jacket/shirt.

You ask if Zimmerman could have somehow gotten himself off of the ground and broken from Martin and then drawn and fired his gun. That is one possibility, but would also require Martin to have gotten to his feet. Another possibility is that Zimmerman twisted and pushed Martin off to the side, both still on the ground but now separated by about 2 feet (arm-length). A shot fired in this type of position could still be "straight-arm" with the gun away from Zimmerman's jacket/shirt resulting in no GSR but close enough for the noted muzzle burns/stippling in the forensic/autopsy reports.



The above scenario's then are important as to determination of initial aggressor. Under Florida Statute (776.041) if Martin is the initial aggressor, the Zimmerman's immunity under self defense are never lost. However if Zimmerman was shown to be the initial aggressor **AND** he'd pushed Martin away **THEN** Zimmerman would have been under a requirement to attempt to disengage before the use of lethal force if such an opportunity (as measured by a reasonable person) presented itself. Such as Zimmerman pushing Martin away. Not committing to one scenario over the other at this piont. I just find that that there are questions (in my mind) I would hope the expert witnesses would address at the Self Defense Hearing or at the jury trial if it gets that far.

Google the law and you will see what I mean by that.



>>>>

 

[WorldWatcher]

>

I'm actually traveling tomorrow and have to get up at 05:00. So ya'll have fun. Will check back tomorrow night.

G'night.


>>>>

 

[beagle9]

Actually, we know that Zimmerman did not comply with the dispatchers instructions based on situational awareness and time/distance analysis. The distances from Zimmerman truck, down Twin Trees Lane, up the sidewalk, and around the house to the back to arrive at the event site are known quantities. From the dispatcher recording it can be determined that Zimmerman's "OK" response to the dispatcher occurred 18-seconds after the sound of his exiting the truck. We also know by synchronizing his dispatcher call with those of the neighbors' 911 calls (they were to the same recording system) that the shot occurred approximately 3 minutes 30 seconds after the "OK" to the . Distance time analysis shows that Zimmerman could not have complied with the dispatcher as he ended up FARTHER from the truck then he would have traveled in 18-seconds.

We also have a witness reporting the Zimmerman approaching Martin.




There are a couple of things that can be determined once some more information comes out.

1. **IF** Zimmerman's story told to the police that night is that Martin was hiding and jumped him (which is the version which the father said during an interview), then that will conflict with a witness statement. That could be very damaging to Zimmerman because during the police interview it is unlikely that he would have known that Martin was on the telephone at the time.

2. **IF** Zimmerman's story is that Martin was on top, then we have Martin's height from the autopsy report as 71" (5'11") which means the length of his arms would be 22-24" depending on whether it was a measurement to the wrist or palm. Now, for one person to be leaning over another means the chest's were 12-18" apart when the shot was fired - yet the autopsy report shows a straight path front to back instead of the side shot which would have been natural in such a position and that there was no Gun Shot Residue on the front of Zimmerman's Jacket/Shirt.​

>>>>

World, could it have been that Zimmerman somehow could have gotten himself off of the ground, and would have broke apart from the struggle before delivering the fatal shot that killed Martin (both being in a standing position at this point) ?

The forensics, which I don't claim to be an expert on, show the barrel of the gun was pointed straight (perpendicular) to Martin's chest. That would call for an unnatural position of the hand/wrist when someone is supposedly on your chest, leaning over you, while their hands are on the side of your head flexing their arms to smash your head into the ground. The lack of GSR would be indicative of a straight arm shot with the gun discharged away and not over Zimmerman's jacket/shirt.

You ask if Zimmerman could have somehow gotten himself off of the ground and broken from Martin and then drawn and fired his gun. That is one possibility, but would also require Martin to have gotten to his feet. Another possibility is that Zimmerman twisted and pushed Martin off to the side, both still on the ground but now separated by about 2 feet (arm-length). A shot fired in this type of position could still be "straight-arm" with the gun away from Zimmerman's jacket/shirt resulting in no GSR but close enough for the noted muzzle burns/stippling in the forensic/autopsy reports.



The above scenario's then are important as to determination of initial aggressor. Under Florida Statute (776.041) if Martin is the initial aggressor, the Zimmerman's immunity under self defense are never lost. However if Zimmerman was shown to be the initial aggressor **AND** he'd pushed Martin away **THEN** Zimmerman would have been under a requirement to attempt to disengage before the use of lethal force if such an opportunity (as measured by a reasonable person) presented itself. Such as Zimmerman pushing Martin away. Not committing to one scenario over the other at this piont. I just find that that there are questions (in my mind) I would hope the expert witnesses would address at the Self Defense Hearing or at the jury trial if it gets that far.

Google the law and you will see what I mean by that.



>>>>

Yes if he (Zimmerman) had pushed away, it could have been the cause for disengaugement as you say between the two men after a serious struggle began, but would Zimmerman be in a frame of mind at this point, where he felt that maybe his life was still endanger due to the initial attack, and this because the push had to be made by him in order to get disengaugement, instead of it being made by Martin who could have disengauged also by such a push instead? Where as one of the pushes could have been in order to signal an end to hostilties at this point, and the other would have been to stop an attack that could have been life threatening. Otherwise if Martin would have pushed off to disengauge, it would have signaled an end to the attack by Martin, otherwise if Martin was the attacker in this senario, and so if Zimmerman would have made the push, then it would have been to save his life somehow by such a push being made. Right?

However, if Zimmerman would have attacked Martin lets say, then the push off by Zimmerman could have been a push to somehow get free in the struggle, and this would be because Martin had turned the tide back on him (Zimmerman), and this could have very well been because Martin somehow got the upper hand in the struggle after Zimmerman attacked him, but to shoot Martin after the disengaugement occurred and/or a lull came in the struggle, where Zimmerman was the initial aggressor, well doesn't make much since does it or does it ? I guess it all depends on the fury or anger built up between these two during the struggle, that caused the gun to come out, and a shot to get fired.

I guess it will go back to who was the initial agressor (threw the first punch or physically made the first contact) in the situation, where as all blame for the death will befall the individual that is proven to be the initial physical aggressor, who made physical contact with the other as an aggressor, and especially so if the initial physical aggressor was the one that was armed in the situation, when the other one wasn't. So it all comes down to who started the physical confrontation first, in which led to one man's death in the struggle that ensued afterwards. Everything else was legal for both men to be doing that night, up until the physical confrontation took place correct ?

 

[Contumacious]

That's a piss-poor excuse. It does not matter why he broke the law. The fact remains that Zimmerman willingly deceived the court. Why should the court believe that Zimmerman will appear, when he's already lied once so that he could get out of jail?

There's a reason Z's lawyer didn't immediately seek a new bail hearing. .

Yes, there is.

1- The ******* judge - Kenneth Lester - is corrupt and willing to be manipulated by the prosecution

2- the ****** demanded that GZ pay bail even though prosecutor Corey's information accusation is a sham; GZ should have been released on his own recognizance ,

3- Instead they found pretexts in order to incarcerate him hoping to force him to cop a plea ; Prosecutor Corey knows that while he is locked up , she can coerce a jailer or another inmate to produce an affidavit claiming that GZ admitted to them that he began the altercation;

.

 

[Gadawg73]

What the girl friend did or did not hear on the phone is hearsay testimony.
None of it is admissable.

 

[Ariux]

Yes, there is.

1- The ******* judge - Kenneth Lester - is corrupt and willing to be allowed to be manipulated by the prosecution

2- the ****** demanded that GZ pay bail even though prosecutor Corey's information accusation is a sham; GZ should have been released on his own recognizance ,

3- Instead they found pretexts in order to incarcerate him hoping to force him to cop a plea ; Prosecutor Corey knows that while he is locked up , she can coerce a jailer or another inmate to produce an affidavit claiming that GZ admitted to them that he began the altercation;

.

You may be right. First, the governor went Prosecutor shopping to find one who would charge Zimmerman. Then the Prosecutor went judge shopping to find one who would entertain a perjurous Probable Cause affidavit. The judge and the Prosecutor are both corrupt.