George Bush's Eve Of Destruction

[Emmanuel_Z]

Hi all,

Hope this is the proper forum for it.

George Bush's Eve Of Destruction

This song combines Bush's post-9-11 Address to Congress with the old protest song. Recorded right before the invasion of Iraq, and remastered for its one-year anniversary. Hope it ends soon.

Let me know what you think!

 

[jimnyc]

Welcome to the board, Emmanuel

I believe those for and opposed to the war on terrorism hope that it ends as soon as humanly possible. Many will be at odds as to when that should be. Personally, I believe this war needs to continue until the world is safe once again and terrorism no longer affects policy and no longer instills fear throughout the world. I know, not an easy task, but it's a task that needs to be done. Appeasement is equivalent to a loss. Appeasement is exactly what the terrorists are looking for, and if they don't get their way they resort to violence.

Speaking from a musical perspective, I enjoyed the mix. Always enjoyed that 'ol song. Just an Fyi to anyone else that wants to listen: Click on lo-fi or hi-fi to stream the audio. Clicking on mp3 will bring you to a registration page.

 

[NewGuy]

Anyone posting tunes with their first post DESERVES a

 

[Emmanuel_Z]

Thanks, Jim, Newguy!

Jim - I believe that indeed, terrorism needs to be fought, but I'm inclined to pose questions about the way it's done. You say appeasement is what terrorists are looking for; I beg to differ. For the US to invade Iraq, and then to fall flat on its face, only to eventually be forced to leave the entire region - THAT is what they are looking for. They're halfway there now.

 

[DKSuddeth]

welcome to the board emmanuel

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Emmanuel_Z
Thanks, Jim, Newguy!

Jim - I believe that indeed, terrorism needs to be fought, but I'm inclined to pose questions about the way it's done. You say appeasement is what terrorists are looking for; I beg to differ. For the US to invade Iraq, and then to fall flat on its face, only to eventually be forced to leave the entire region - THAT is what they are looking for. They're halfway there now.

I would hardly say that the US has fallen on it's face. Saddam has been removed from power. His disgusting sons have been killed. Almost every other top official has been captured or killed. Hundreds upon hundreds of terrorists have been captured or killed. Hundreds of terrorist plots have been foiled due to the war on terrorism. The Iraqi people now have freedoms they haven't seen in 30 some odd years - or some that many never saw before the US removed Saddam. They have been given an opportunity to embrace freedom as citizens, not having it dictated to them by a madman.

The US isn't being forced to leave anywhere. They had objectives in mind and are reaching those goals. That is to free the people from an oppressive dictator and to give them an opportunity to understand and capitalize upon democracy. The goal has never wavered and the US has not retreated in any way. To stop Saddam from using and/or acquiring WMD. Whether the smoking gun has been found or not doesn't really matter. Saddam's objectives were clear, and now he'll never have the opportunity to realize his sick dreams.

The war on terrorism will be quite lengthy. The success thus far has been amazing, unless of course you concentrate on the negative and ignore the many positives.

 

[Emmanuel_Z]

Thanks DK, nice sig!

Jim,
I'm not saying the falling-on-the-face has already happened. What I'm trying to say, I suppose (though I hope I to be better at it when I convey it in music) is that Iraq never really had much to do with international terrorism, and that by Al Qaida's and the current American administration's design, it now does.
I respect your opinion, and of course there is a lot of truth in what you say. I hope it all turns out the way you describe, but I fear that as long as mosques are bombes, more terrorists are created every day.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Emmanuel_Z
Jim,
I'm not saying the falling-on-the-face has already happened. What I'm trying to say, I suppose (though I hope I to be better at it when I convey it in music) is that Iraq never really had much to do with international terrorism, and that by Al Qaida's and the current American administration's design, it now does.
I respect your opinion, and of course there is a lot of truth in what you say. I hope it all turns out the way you describe, but I fear that as long as mosques are bombes, more terrorists are created every day.

Iraq/Saddam did in fact support many international terrorist organizations. That alone wasn't the reason for the invasion though. There were many reasons that when lumped together created a recipe for disaster in Iraq. The US was able to put a nice dent into terrorist activities and remove an oppressive dictator all at once.

Of course new terrorists will spring up - and they'll need to be put down as well. But the threat of other criminals taking over where the old left off isn't a good argument for ignoring terrorism. I think we all have fears with what the direction of terrorism but eliminating terrorism is the only way to remove that fear.

BTW - the mosque that was bombed the other day was reported to be filled with insurgents using it as a shield to attack US military.

 

[Emmanuel_Z]

If you don't try to look at it from the other side, you'll never make a balanced judgement.

So here, for your benefit, is the other side.

Saddam Hussein's regime and Al Qaida were enemies. When Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990, Osama offered Kuwait the aid of his Mujahedeen to fight against Iraq. Had Kuwait accepted this offer, our tale would have been drastically different.

As we all know, The US helped out there instead - but they left troops behind in the Holy Land. Now, please take a moment to imagine Mujahedeen fighters camping around Hollywood... thank you. Due to this (and of course the ongoing Israel-Palestine conflict), fundamentalism grew more widespread, and soon the attacks against the Americans started. The troops had to go, was the message. They didn't.

Al Qaida now is plotting to make the US 'a shadow of its former self'. They credit themselves for taking down the Soviet Union, and think they can take on another superpower. They've now taken over ten years to run efficiently. They hope to make Iraq for the US what Afghanistan was for the Soviets - a death trap.
In their wake come hundreds of thousands of people who don't necessarily think their society needs to be overwhelmed by capitalism.

Take away the reasons for the terrorism. Take away the misunderstandings. Take away the need to control the world. Then the world will take away the terrorists.

Peace!

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Emmanuel_Z
If you don't try to look at it from the other side, you'll never make a balanced judgement.

With all due respect, I have looked at it from the other side. I still come to the same conclusions - that the only way to remove terrorism is to remove the terrorists. Not to reason with them. Not to negotiate with them. Not to understand them. But to remove them.

 

[Emmanuel_Z]

Nelson Mandela should have been removed?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Emmanuel_Z
Nelson Mandela should have been removed?

Was he a terrorist?

 

[Hobbit]

Originally posted by Emmanuel_Z
If you don't try to look at it from the other side, you'll never make a balanced judgement.

So here, for your benefit, is the other side.

Saddam Hussein's regime and Al Qaida were enemies. When Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990, Osama offered Kuwait the aid of his Mujahedeen to fight against Iraq. Had Kuwait accepted this offer, our tale would have been drastically different.

As we all know, The US helped out there instead - but they left troops behind in the Holy Land. Now, please take a moment to imagine Mujahedeen fighters camping around Hollywood... thank you. Due to this (and of course the ongoing Israel-Palestine conflict), fundamentalism grew more widespread, and soon the attacks against the Americans started. The troops had to go, was the message. They didn't.

Al Qaida now is plotting to make the US 'a shadow of its former self'. They credit themselves for taking down the Soviet Union, and think they can take on another superpower. They've now taken over ten years to run efficiently. They hope to make Iraq for the US what Afghanistan was for the Soviets - a death trap.
In their wake come hundreds of thousands of people who don't necessarily think their society needs to be overwhelmed by capitalism.

Take away the reasons for the terrorism. Take away the misunderstandings. Take away the need to control the world. Then the world will take away the terrorists.

Peace!

Sure, maybe if we had left after Kuwait, we wouldn't have the problems we do now, but as of now, Al-Qaida hates us for being American, and for no other reason. We have to take them out or it will only get worse. As for Al-Qaida and Saddam hating each other, I have no doubt about that. However, Saddam still supported *other* terrorist organizations.

On a final note, we're not shoving democracy and capitalism down their throats. We're holding an election to let the people of Iraq define their own government. If they end up wanting an Islamic state, then politely ask us to leave, I have no doubt that we will. I just don't think they'll do that.

 

[insein]

Originally posted by Emmanuel_Z
Thanks, Jim, Newguy!

Jim - I believe that indeed, terrorism needs to be fought, but I'm inclined to pose questions about the way it's done. You say appeasement is what terrorists are looking for; I beg to differ. For the US to invade Iraq, and then to fall flat on its face, only to eventually be forced to leave the entire region - THAT is what they are looking for. They're halfway there now.

I see you watch CNN for your coverage then. The war is going very well. It is a success for many reasons. Quickness to despose the former regime. Relatively low casualty rate. Whats going on now is insurgency. An insurgency led mostly by terrorists. They are fighting hard because they know if Democracy gets a solid foothold in the Middle East and muslims can see real freedom then their ways of terrorizing people to follow them are over.

And Appeasment is never the answer. Nevil Chamberlain comes to mind. Something about Hitler will get bored when he captures the slovian countries and will leave us alone. Basically hiding in the corner of the lion cage and praying that he'll be too full to eat you when he's done with everyone else.

Despite what you see on CNN, the war is going good. there are some unforseen obstacles that have occurred. And they are being dealt with. Try to watch Fox along with CNN so you can see both sides of ....well....everything.

 

[insein]

Originally posted by Emmanuel_Z
Saddam Hussein's regime and Al Qaida were enemies. When Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990, Osama offered Kuwait the aid of his Mujahedeen to fight against Iraq. Had Kuwait accepted this offer, our tale would have been drastically different.

Ah yes but the enemy of my enemy is my Friend. In this case, Osama may not have liked Sadaam, but he hated the US even more. How else do you account for the al quada rendezvous in Baghdad to gain needed funds for the organization. Plus Sadaam supported other terrorist organizations. Not all terrorists are Al quada.

As we all know, The US helped out there instead - but they left troops behind in the Holy Land. Now, please take a moment to imagine Mujahedeen fighters camping around Hollywood... thank you. Due to this (and of course the ongoing Israel-Palestine conflict), fundamentalism grew more widespread, and soon the attacks against the Americans started. The troops had to go, was the message. They didn't.

There is quite a difference between the American army and the guerilla army of the Mujahedeen. The US army has been called upon for all sorts of conflicts over the last century. Plus it was a Coalition led by the UN to free Kuwait. The US are the biggest members of the UN and therefore are the largest part of that fighting force.

Al Qaida now is plotting to make the US 'a shadow of its former self'. They credit themselves for taking down the Soviet Union, and think they can take on another superpower. They've now taken over ten years to run efficiently. They hope to make Iraq for the US what Afghanistan was for the Soviets - a death trap.

Well al quada claims alot of things. They claim that when they kill americans and themselves that they goto heaven and receive 70 virgins and an eternal hard-on. History knows that Reagan brought the end to the Soviet union. I think ill trust history.

In their wake come hundreds of thousands of people who don't necessarily think their society needs to be overwhelmed by capitalism.

It also brought millions of people who want the choice. If they so choose to not be capitalist then so be it. But wouldnt it be nice to choose what you want instead of being forced at gun-point to take one side?

Take away the reasons for the terrorism. Take away the misunderstandings. Take away the need to control the world. Then the world will take away the terrorists.

Peace!

You can train a lion and you can make him tame, but he is still a lion. He can bite your head off at any time. Terrorism can not be negotiated with. It is not even a country. Its a group of individuals with an agenda. They just happen to use bombs to get their points across. Their point you ask? To kill as many people as possible. No peace in our time can be had when animals like these breath the same air as we.

 

[Annie]

Emmanuel_Z posted:

When Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990, Osama offered Kuwait the aid of his Mujahedeen to fight against Iraq. Had Kuwait accepted this offer, our tale would have been drastically different.

First off, WELCOME!

I've searced for this offer, but haven't found any credible source, can you help out?

 

[insein]

Originally posted by Kathianne
Emmanuel_Z posted:


First off, WELCOME!

I've searced for this offer, but haven't found any credible source, can you help out?

wouldnt that be convienant

 

[Annie]

wouldnt that be convenient?

Sorry, had to correct the spelling insein. I figure he's new, give it the benefit of the doubt....:

 

[Emmanuel_Z]

I've searced for this offer, but haven't found any credible source, can you help out?

I used another source myself, but some easy google research revealed the following:

Saudi Prince confirms Bin Laden offer in Pravda

 

[insein]

Ok a russian source was the only source you found. It wasnt even a news source. It was the equivalent to a fan site that finds information to serve their purposes such as moveon.org. I'd accept it better (albeit only slightly better due to their bias) if it came from CNN or CBS etc rather than an obscure overseas website.

What are your keywords in your google search that you use? It would be better to link your google search here. Then we can see some other sources.