Gaza: the rights and wrongs

[DavidS]

Why do you think that is? If any other country were in the same position, the world community wouldn't say a word if the response was the same or worse.

Because we're Jewish. It's unfortunate that so many people in the world hate Jews.

 

[sky dancer]

I understand your position.

I'm telling you there IS no other way to deal with terrorists. They don't get nice if you give them what they want. They've already been OFFERED most of what they want.

They don't want anything but Israel's destruction. You can't negotiate with that. If there's even a chance of peace, it's with Fatah (though even that is a stretch), which means Hamas has to be disabled. There's no other way to do it.

Obama isn't going to tell Israel to take missiles without defending itself. Nor should he.[/QUOTE]

Of course not, Jill.

The problem we always have, is that we think we have control over other nation's destinies. Anytime we wish, we spout 'regime change' as the answer. We have a habit of sending the CIA into areas to 'promote regime change'.

I think that approach is bass ackwards.

We need to look at what happened in Northern Ireland for example.

 

[Ravi]

I'm starting to think the Palis should be wiped off the face of the earth. Unless they quit being assholes, of course.

 

[dilloduck]

I'm starting to think the Palis should be wiped off the face of the earth. Unless they quit being assholes, of course.

That's very loving of you. Get together with David.

 

[jillian]

Because we're Jewish. It's unfortunate that so many people in the world hate Jews.

That's for some... not all.

I think Dillo's actually right about this one... it has to do with strenght versus "perceived" weakness.

It's the ones who talk about how Israel should be in Utah who have the "jew issues". But it's important to realize that there are a lot of people who just want an even playing field -- not understanding that can't happen here. But it's why your language needs to be moderated on this issue. Most of us don't think all palestinians should be destoyed.... just Hamas. And not acknowledging the difference fails to explain to people why your pov is the only one possible.

 

[RodISHI]

I'm starting to think the Palis should be wiped off the face of the earth. Unless they quit being assholes, of course.

Ouch!

I hope Israel is securing safe houses for the families that desire peace as they are moving through Gaza.

 

[sky dancer]

That's for some... not all.

I think Dillo's actually right about this one... it has to do with strenght versus "perceived" weakness.

It's the ones who talk about how Israel should be in Utah who have the "jew issues". But it's important to realize that there are a lot of people who just want an even playing field -- not understanding that can't happen here. But it's why your language needs to be moderated on this issue. Most of us don't think all palestinians should be destoyed.... just Hamas. And not acknowledging the difference fails to explain to people why your pov is the only one possible.

Hmm. I haven't heard anyone suggest that Israel should be in Utah.

Israel exists in large part due to causes and conditions after WWII and the Holocaust.

Israel is surrounded by enemies, and the threat to the nation and to the Israel people is real.

Frankly, I'd rather see a group other than Hamas in power. Hamas is there now, is the governing body for the Palestinians, that's the situation.

We need to borrow some of what worked in Northern Ireland. It's quite difficult for the Palestinians to have the luxury of a new election in the middle of open warfare.

 

[sky dancer]

If the objective is to completey wipe out your enemey, why would Israel "moderate" its response?

God forbid one day you get cancer, I hope it never happens. I hope no one on this forum ever gets that horrible disease. But, God forbid, one day you get it. You find out you have cancer.

Do you tell your doctor, "Please, only moderately remove this cancer" or do you tell your doctor "Be as agressive as you can. Wipe it out, make sure that not one piece of this tumor is left inside of me! Give me radiation, give me chemo, go in there and use some f'ing dynamite if you have to, REMOVE THIS CANCER!"

The same thing is viewed from Israel's standpoint. The "Palestinan" people are not the cancer - Hamas is. Hamas is a cancer that looks to infect everyone. If Hamas had been elected in Gaza and had said "Israel, we will put down our guns and our rockets and we will negotiate peace with you" and I'm not talking about being allies or anything, but I'm saying an armistice where no side actually attacks the other. They let each other be. There would be no crisis, just as there isn't a crisis in the West Bank. But they decided not to do that.



Settlement expansion in the south? Israel is setting up new homes in Alabama and Georgia??? Do you mean Southern Israel? So confused. Do you mean Gaza? We withdrew from Gaza. Even though it is our land, we withdrew from it and gave it autonomy. This is what happened as a result of doing so. They fired rockets and killed and injured many Israelis.



What the hell are you talking about?? Apartheid?? In what Muslim countries are Jews allowed to hold seats in Parliament? In what Muslim country is the official second language Hebrew? In what country in the entire world, would it be acceptable for 10,000 rockets being fired and do nothing about it?



Completely disagree with you. The US's actual leadership this time around and finally taking the handcuffs off of Israel and allowing it to wipe out the cancer. Once the cancer is wiped out, healthy cells will be put back in and you'll have a healthy patient. But in order to fill the cavity, you've gotta drill away the decayed part of the tooth.



Last I heard, there were countries getting involved in the mix as far as dimplomacy, but not militarily. Have you heard differently?

I think your approach and cancer analogy won't work. You're suggesting shock and awe? Overwhelming force?

The problem is Hamas is well integrated into the civilian population. Too many civilians suffer while Israel shows overwhelming force.

I suppose if you don't care about Palestianian suffering you can just bomb the people out of existence altogether. This is NOT the position of most Israelis or Palestinians. The civilians want peace.

Unfortunately, even if all the Palestinians were wiped off the face of the earth--especially Hamas, then Israel will have to fight Egypt and Syria next.

 

[dilloduck]

Hmm. I haven't heard anyone suggest that Israel should be in Utah.

Israel exists in large part due to causes and conditions after WWII and the Holocaust.

Israel is surrounded by enemies, and the threat to the nation and to the Israel people is real.

Frankly, I'd rather see a group other than Hamas in power. Hamas is there now, is the governing body for the Palestinians, that's the situation.

We need to borrow some of what worked in Northern Ireland. It's quite difficult for the Palestinians to have the luxury of a new election in the middle of open warfare.

Perhaps Israel AND the US could honestly and humbly stop and engage in a conversation with the rest of the world and ask THEM what is an acceptable way to protect it's citizens. I'd love to hear the answers.

 

[sky dancer]

Because we're Jewish. It's unfortunate that so many people in the world hate Jews.

That's BS, David. I don't come to my position on the Middle East peace process out of hating Jews. Quite the contrary.

I don't hate Israel either. I want Israel to survive. It's on a path of destruction IMO.

 

[dilloduck]

Because we're Jewish. It's unfortunate that so many people in the world hate Jews.

That's you problem right there----it's your behavior and attitudes that make people uncomfortable---NOT your damn bloodline.

 

[sky dancer]

Perhaps Israel AND the US could honestly and humbly stop and engage in a conversation with the rest of the world and ask THEM what is an acceptable way to protect it's citizens. I'd love to hear the answers.

I've never said that Israel doesn't have a sovereign right to protects its citizens.

I'm stating that Israel is not protecting them and the integrity of the nation if it isn't seeking a cease fire. The US needs to be working toward that immediate goal.

 

[dilloduck]

I've never said that Israel doesn't have a sovereign right to protects its citizens.

I'm stating that Israel is not protecting them and the integrity of the nation if it isn't seeking a cease fire. The US needs to be working toward that immediate goal.

But it never does---it only supports resolutions that favor Israel. The US is far to pro Israel to be the deal broker here. Hell--we PAY for the whole damn thing,.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Perhaps Israel AND the US could honestly and humbly stop and engage in a conversation with the rest of the world and ask THEM what is an acceptable way to protect it's citizens. I'd love to hear the answers.

Didn't you really mean to say Israel should ask the rest of the world what effective way of protecting its citizens it finds most acceptable? That question has been out there for years, and so far none of Israel's critics has wanted to answer it because none of them can think and way that would be both effective and acceptable to "the rest of the world."

 

[Truthmatters]

They are using the Bush tactic. They are trying to kill ideas with guns and bombs. Hamas is not just the name of a group. Its the name of a set of Ideas. You can hate those ideas all you want but trying to just kill everyone who believes them is not going to work.

 

[sky dancer]

But it never does---it only supports resolutions that favor Israel. The US is far to pro Israel to be the deal broker here. Hell--we PAY for the whole damn thing,.

We give Israel 3 billion dollars in military aid.

Obama will take our policy in a different direction. I'm looking forward to seeing how he does that. This will likely be Hillary's first business as Secretary of State.

I think it's good that she has some experience having worked in Northern Ireland.

 

[sky dancer]

They are using the Bush tactic. They are trying to kill ideas with guns and bombs. Hamas is not just the name of a group. Its the name of a set of Ideas. You can hate those ideas all you want but trying to just kill everyone who believes them is not going to work.

We forget it's the people who bleed.

 

[jillian]

They are using the Bush tactic. They are trying to kill ideas with guns and bombs. Hamas is not just the name of a group. Its the name of a set of Ideas. You can hate those ideas all you want but trying to just kill everyone who believes them is not going to work.

No one's trying to "kill ideas". They're trying to stop missiles.

And stupidity and lying like that is why you got negged.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

That's you problem right there----it's your behavior and attitudes that make people uncomfortable---NOT your damn bloodline.

BULLSHIT. I guess you never learned any history did you. Jews are attacked all over the world BECAUSE they are Jews. And have been for 2000 years at least.

 

[Sunni Man]

If the objective is to completey wipe out your enemey, why would Israel "moderate" its response?

God forbid one day you get cancer, I hope it never happens. I hope no one on this forum ever gets that horrible disease. But, God forbid, one day you get it. You find out you have cancer.

Do you tell your doctor, "Please, only moderately remove this cancer" or do you tell your doctor "Be as agressive as you can. Wipe it out, make sure that not one piece of this tumor is left inside of me! Give me radiation, give me chemo, go in there and use some f'ing dynamite if you have to, REMOVE THIS CANCER!"

Actually DavidS, your analogy is pretty good. I think I will use it on the other forums I post on, but with one minor change.

Israel and Zionism are the cancer that must be eradicated from the World.

Zionism is a horrible disease and needs to be agressively wiped out. The tumor called Israel is bringing nothing but death to the World body and must be cut out, burned off, or removed, in any way possible for the welfare of humanity. Only when Israel is history and Zionism destroyed will the Earth have a change to achieve Peace and Justice for all people.