Gay Marriage? NO Groundwork NO Deal!

[DarkFury]

In a gay marriage ONE parent is NOT a blood parent. You give them the RIGHT to collect child support from a NON blood parent whats to stop a blood parent from DEMANDING money from a step parent?

That makes zero sense. One parent is either the biological parent or one or both parents adopt a kid. The couple breaks up. The parent that is not biological leaves and that's it.
If one parent has adopted the kid and the other did not and the couple breaks up then the parent that did not adopt the kid leaves and that's it. If both adopt the child and they split up then one pays child support.

Exactly the same.

No it is not the same because in MOST cases BOTH parents are blood parents. So your law of equality has made unequal legal standing.

In order to be just ALL parties must be equal right? So by your argument a blood parent COULD get money out of a step parent.
Because two sets of rules for two different people would be NO different then Jim Crow laws based on race.

No. They can't get money out of a step parent. Nice try.

How is one NON blood parent different the another? You HAVE to take into account peoples greed PLUS lawyers greed.

On a side note.......Be it we disagree I DO thank you for your civility and thought you put into your comments and questions.
And I for one respect that.
Fury

Thank you right back.

If you and your partner have a child and you split up then one of you will pay child support.

If your ex partner marries a person of the same sex then that person is the step parent. If your ex partner marries a person of the opposite sex then that person is the step parent. You didn't stop being a parent. No change.

Adoption is done by one or two individuals. It's a legal document that says that the individual or couple are now considered biological parents and a new birth certificate listing the adoptive parents as the biological parents is issued. Not on the birth certificate? Not paying child support.
No change.

But that is NOT the way the law even works today. Here is a 2 minute video of a man PROVEN not to be the blood parent and STILL is under order to pay support.

Those legal steps need to be nailed down and I think the group that wants the law should be doing the nailing NOT just anybody to foot the bill. NOT you or I or anybody. That I think is a fair request.

 

[JoeB131]

[
I don't care if same sex marries, marry anyone/thing you want. But look at the legal mess first and fix it BEFORE not after.
Okay?

The problem with your shrill shreiking is that the legal mess that is STRAIGHT marriage wasn't fixed before we let straights get married. The Legal Messes, as you say, will be there regardless. And courts will make the best decisions they can.

 

[Disir]

That makes zero sense. One parent is either the biological parent or one or both parents adopt a kid. The couple breaks up. The parent that is not biological leaves and that's it.
If one parent has adopted the kid and the other did not and the couple breaks up then the parent that did not adopt the kid leaves and that's it. If both adopt the child and they split up then one pays child support.

Exactly the same.

No it is not the same because in MOST cases BOTH parents are blood parents. So your law of equality has made unequal legal standing.

In order to be just ALL parties must be equal right? So by your argument a blood parent COULD get money out of a step parent.
Because two sets of rules for two different people would be NO different then Jim Crow laws based on race.

No. They can't get money out of a step parent. Nice try.

How is one NON blood parent different the another? You HAVE to take into account peoples greed PLUS lawyers greed.

On a side note.......Be it we disagree I DO thank you for your civility and thought you put into your comments and questions.
And I for one respect that.
Fury

Thank you right back.

If you and your partner have a child and you split up then one of you will pay child support.

If your ex partner marries a person of the same sex then that person is the step parent. If your ex partner marries a person of the opposite sex then that person is the step parent. You didn't stop being a parent. No change.

Adoption is done by one or two individuals. It's a legal document that says that the individual or couple are now considered biological parents and a new birth certificate listing the adoptive parents as the biological parents is issued. Not on the birth certificate? Not paying child support.
No change.

But that is NOT the way the law even works today. Here is a 2 minute video of a man PROVEN not to be the blood parent and STILL is under order to pay support.

Those legal steps need to be nailed down and I think the group that wants the law should be doing the nailing NOT just anybody to foot the bill. NOT you or I or anybody. That I think is a fair request.

That is the way the law works today. It's up to that particular state and the court order can be changed. The paternity test will hold out. That's why they really are important.

How frequently has that occurred in that area?

 

[DarkFury]

No it is not the same because in MOST cases BOTH parents are blood parents. So your law of equality has made unequal legal standing.

In order to be just ALL parties must be equal right? So by your argument a blood parent COULD get money out of a step parent.
Because two sets of rules for two different people would be NO different then Jim Crow laws based on race.

No. They can't get money out of a step parent. Nice try.

How is one NON blood parent different the another? You HAVE to take into account peoples greed PLUS lawyers greed.

On a side note.......Be it we disagree I DO thank you for your civility and thought you put into your comments and questions.
And I for one respect that.
Fury

Thank you right back.

If you and your partner have a child and you split up then one of you will pay child support.

If your ex partner marries a person of the same sex then that person is the step parent. If your ex partner marries a person of the opposite sex then that person is the step parent. You didn't stop being a parent. No change.

Adoption is done by one or two individuals. It's a legal document that says that the individual or couple are now considered biological parents and a new birth certificate listing the adoptive parents as the biological parents is issued. Not on the birth certificate? Not paying child support.
No change.

But that is NOT the way the law even works today. Here is a 2 minute video of a man PROVEN not to be the blood parent and STILL is under order to pay support.

Those legal steps need to be nailed down and I think the group that wants the law should be doing the nailing NOT just anybody to foot the bill. NOT you or I or anybody. That I think is a fair request.

That is the way the law works today. It's up to that particular state and the court order can be changed. The paternity test will hold out. That's why they really are important.

How frequently has that occurred in that area?

If a person losses their home {he did} or their job it's one to many. The problem is you would be piling one failure on another.
Is it not better we learned from that and took care of those issues BEFORE it becomes a law suit?

 

[Disir]

No. They can't get money out of a step parent. Nice try.

How is one NON blood parent different the another? You HAVE to take into account peoples greed PLUS lawyers greed.

On a side note.......Be it we disagree I DO thank you for your civility and thought you put into your comments and questions.
And I for one respect that.
Fury

Thank you right back.

If you and your partner have a child and you split up then one of you will pay child support.

If your ex partner marries a person of the same sex then that person is the step parent. If your ex partner marries a person of the opposite sex then that person is the step parent. You didn't stop being a parent. No change.

Adoption is done by one or two individuals. It's a legal document that says that the individual or couple are now considered biological parents and a new birth certificate listing the adoptive parents as the biological parents is issued. Not on the birth certificate? Not paying child support.
No change.

But that is NOT the way the law even works today. Here is a 2 minute video of a man PROVEN not to be the blood parent and STILL is under order to pay support.

Those legal steps need to be nailed down and I think the group that wants the law should be doing the nailing NOT just anybody to foot the bill. NOT you or I or anybody. That I think is a fair request.

That is the way the law works today. It's up to that particular state and the court order can be changed. The paternity test will hold out. That's why they really are important.

How frequently has that occurred in that area?

If a person losses their home {he did} or their job it's one to many. The problem is you would be piling one failure on another.
Is it not better we learned from that and took care of those issues BEFORE it becomes a law suit?

Again. How frequently does that occur in this area?
One really good lawsuit will have these folks rethinking how they do this.

 

[DarkFury]

How is one NON blood parent different the another? You HAVE to take into account peoples greed PLUS lawyers greed.

On a side note.......Be it we disagree I DO thank you for your civility and thought you put into your comments and questions.
And I for one respect that.
Fury

Thank you right back.

If you and your partner have a child and you split up then one of you will pay child support.

If your ex partner marries a person of the same sex then that person is the step parent. If your ex partner marries a person of the opposite sex then that person is the step parent. You didn't stop being a parent. No change.

Adoption is done by one or two individuals. It's a legal document that says that the individual or couple are now considered biological parents and a new birth certificate listing the adoptive parents as the biological parents is issued. Not on the birth certificate? Not paying child support.
No change.

But that is NOT the way the law even works today. Here is a 2 minute video of a man PROVEN not to be the blood parent and STILL is under order to pay support.

Those legal steps need to be nailed down and I think the group that wants the law should be doing the nailing NOT just anybody to foot the bill. NOT you or I or anybody. That I think is a fair request.

That is the way the law works today. It's up to that particular state and the court order can be changed. The paternity test will hold out. That's why they really are important.

How frequently has that occurred in that area?

If a person losses their home {he did} or their job it's one to many. The problem is you would be piling one failure on another.
Is it not better we learned from that and took care of those issues BEFORE it becomes a law suit?

Again. How frequently does that occur in this area?
One really good lawsuit will have these folks rethinking how they do this.

Given the general greed of people and lawyers it WILL expand. Like I said I don't care who or what a person marries. Given the KNOWN and PROVEN problems they need to address them first.

I do not see it as asking to much just a legal contract AGREED and upheld by ALL states like marriage. Right now it's just patchwork with NO base platform. They NEED to build the platform.

Just because one group built something flawed is no reason to allow ANOTHER group to build something flawed. Would theirs be better? Could be but they have none right now.

 

[Disir]

He did not lose his house or his job.

I see it. He was in prison. It's a default and he had three years but could not find them, by the time that he did find them it was 2013. So the paternity test is new.
How many other states still use a default process?

 

[DarkFury]

He did not lose his house or his job.

I see it. He was in prison. It's a default and he had three years but could not find them, by the time that he did find them it was 2013. So the paternity test is new.
How many other states still use a default process?

The majority I am afraid. As you can see on the video she only had to list him on a document to start the nightmare.
THAT does need to be fixed. BUT it also points out there are other things that need to be nailed down by ANY group before just granting a change.

 

[Disir]

He did not lose his house or his job.

I see it. He was in prison. It's a default and he had three years but could not find them, by the time that he did find them it was 2013. So the paternity test is new.
How many other states still use a default process?

The majority I am afraid. As you can see on the video she only had to list him on a document to start the nightmare.
THAT does need to be fixed. BUT it also points out there are other things that need to be nailed down by ANY group before just granting a change.

Yep. They need to stop that shit.
Injustice by Default - Reason.com

It's old- 2004.

And none of this has anything to do with same sex marriage. None. In the future, could we just cut to the chase?

 

[DarkFury]

He did not lose his house or his job.

I see it. He was in prison. It's a default and he had three years but could not find them, by the time that he did find them it was 2013. So the paternity test is new.
How many other states still use a default process?

The majority I am afraid. As you can see on the video she only had to list him on a document to start the nightmare.
THAT does need to be fixed. BUT it also points out there are other things that need to be nailed down by ANY group before just granting a change.

Yep. They need to stop that shit.
Injustice by Default - Reason.com

Okay so as you can see I am not rabid against it I simply do not want to repeat the mistakes of the past. IF DNA can put you on death row then DNA should be able to get you out of child support, a system that is rife with lies and graft anyway.

The smartest thing would be to have them build a better platform and then use parts of that same platform to fix current problems.
Because support/custody and alimony are ALL going to be on the table.

Instead of fighting or demanding they should be building a better set of laws that can be adopted by ALL. And that IS what makes part of ANY group or movement. Improvement because you can.

 

[DarkFury]

He did not lose his house or his job.

I see it. He was in prison. It's a default and he had three years but could not find them, by the time that he did find them it was 2013. So the paternity test is new.
How many other states still use a default process?

The majority I am afraid. As you can see on the video she only had to list him on a document to start the nightmare.
THAT does need to be fixed. BUT it also points out there are other things that need to be nailed down by ANY group before just granting a change.

Yep. They need to stop that shit.
Injustice by Default - Reason.com

It's old- 2004.

And none of this has anything to do with same sex marriage. None. In the future, could we just cut to the chase?

Here is yet is another twist that somebody fell into it.

 

[Politico]

First off I want to say I truly could care less who or what you want to marry. What I DO care about is being EXPECTED to pay for it. And what you want YOU have done NO legal groundwork for.

IF justice is fair it MUST be equal and that IS what you are demanding equal right? But thus far you have REFUSED to do the work needed to keep me from paying for YOUR CHOICE. i as a tax payer should NOT be expected to clean up the mess YOUR choice will have on MY wallet.

1, Blood parent vs NON blood parent.
Who gets custody?
IF law is equal in order to be just are you not endangering Custody of ALL blood parents RIGHT to custody?

2, Child support
You are going to have to change the law so a BLOOD parent can get child support from a NON blood parent. THAT would endanger EVERY step parent on the planet and COULD lead to the total destruction of any and ALL marriages.

3, Death of the parents
IF BOTH parents were to die in some accident do you give custody and support to the BLOOD grandparents OR the NON blood grandparents?

These very points and many more await IF your DEMAND is met without thought. The tax payer should NOT have to clean up this mess. The people who WANT it should tackle those issues FIRST to show they have put the thought AND legal groundwork in BEFORE the issue.

Roe vs Wade STILL costs American tax payers about 40 million a year and it's not even close to being done. Lawyers WILL pick the wallets of tax payers clean on this simply because a group REFUSED to do the groundwork.

You want it? Fine BUT NO DEAL until you do the groundwork.

Say again?

Which part did you not understand?

The relationship of what you have posted to same sex marriage?

I don't care if same sex marries, marry anyone/thing you want. But look at the legal mess first and fix it BEFORE not after.
Okay?

What legal mess?

As crazy as the rant is the legal mess created by IVF. When any gay couple has a baby only one of them can be the biological parent.

 

[JoeB131]

Here is yet is another twist that somebody fell into it.

This was a case where a couple used a man as a sperm donor instead of going to a licenced clinic. And when they applied for welfare, they said, 'Who is the father". Oops. We know who the father is. Pay the fuck up.

Frankly, better him than the rest of us.

 

[Disir]

Say again?

Which part did you not understand?

The relationship of what you have posted to same sex marriage?

I don't care if same sex marries, marry anyone/thing you want. But look at the legal mess first and fix it BEFORE not after.
Okay?

What legal mess?

As crazy as the rant is the legal mess created by IVF. When any gay couple has a baby only one of them can be the biological parent.

Has one? That is dependent on state laws. You have state laws that gay or straight you aren't allowed to adopt if you are single. Or you are allowed to adopt if you are gay but you cannot be in a relationship.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

First off I want to say I truly could care less who or what you want to marry. What I DO care about is being EXPECTED to pay for it. And what you want YOU have done NO legal groundwork for.

IF justice is fair it MUST be equal and that IS what you are demanding equal right? But thus far you have REFUSED to do the work needed to keep me from paying for YOUR CHOICE. i as a tax payer should NOT be expected to clean up the mess YOUR choice will have on MY wallet.

1, Blood parent vs NON blood parent.
Who gets custody?
IF law is equal in order to be just are you not endangering Custody of ALL blood parents RIGHT to custody?

2, Child support
You are going to have to change the law so a BLOOD parent can get child support from a NON blood parent. THAT would endanger EVERY step parent on the planet and COULD lead to the total destruction of any and ALL marriages.

3, Death of the parents
IF BOTH parents were to die in some accident do you give custody and support to the BLOOD grandparents OR the NON blood grandparents?

These very points and many more await IF your DEMAND is met without thought. The tax payer should NOT have to clean up this mess. The people who WANT it should tackle those issues FIRST to show they have put the thought AND legal groundwork in BEFORE the issue.

Roe vs Wade STILL costs American tax payers about 40 million a year and it's not even close to being done. Lawyers WILL pick the wallets of tax payers clean on this simply because a group REFUSED to do the groundwork.

You want it? Fine BUT NO DEAL until you do the groundwork.

Law doesn't ask for, nor does it require a show of hands. So shut the heck up and get back to work you lousy prole.

 

[Disir]

He did not lose his house or his job.

I see it. He was in prison. It's a default and he had three years but could not find them, by the time that he did find them it was 2013. So the paternity test is new.
How many other states still use a default process?

The majority I am afraid. As you can see on the video she only had to list him on a document to start the nightmare.
THAT does need to be fixed. BUT it also points out there are other things that need to be nailed down by ANY group before just granting a change.

Yep. They need to stop that shit.
Injustice by Default - Reason.com

It's old- 2004.

And none of this has anything to do with same sex marriage. None. In the future, could we just cut to the chase?

Here is yet is another twist that somebody fell into it.

That case, governed by Kansas state laws, does in fact, indicate that same sex marriage would have prevented the problem. These are all state issues.

Clearly they need to be discussed at the national level but these changes are at the state level or it needs to go to the Supreme court. It would be absolutely lovely if this could be addressed during the election cycle.

In fact, a well put together petition at the White House might initiate some conversation. No, I don't really believe that. But, it might have the advantage of showing that there are more people, by numbers, that recognize this is an issue that needs to be addressed. This, in turn, might motivate others. In fact, the people that you are saying no deal to could be, if worded a bit better, would be allies at least in situations like the one mentioned above.

 

[Disir]

Here is yet is another twist that somebody fell into it.

This was a case where a couple used a man as a sperm donor instead of going to a licenced clinic. And when they applied for welfare, they said, 'Who is the father". Oops. We know who the father is. Pay the fuck up.

Frankly, better him than the rest of us.

Not ok.

 

[Syriusly]

First off I want to say I truly could care less who or what you want to marry. What I DO care about is being EXPECTED to pay for it. And what you want YOU have done NO legal groundwork for.

Gay couples 'pay' for every straight couple that is married- no one asks whether they want to 'pay' for others to have what they can't have.

The 'legal' groundwork? In three states, the laws were put in place by direct vote- what other legal groundwork do you expect?

In the remainder, Federal courts have overturned state laws which prohibited same gender marriage on constitutional grounds- so in those states, same gender couples now follow the exact same legal framework as my wife and I follow.

That is a good thing.

 

[Syriusly]

1, Blood parent vs NON blood parent.
Who gets custody?
IF law is equal in order to be just are you not endangering Custody of ALL blood parents RIGHT to custody?.

Existing law covers this question.
Married couple that requires a sperm donation to have children?
Married couple that requires a surrogate mother to have children?
Married couple that adopts?

All covered under existing law- what applies to opposite gender couples will also apply to same gender couples.

 

[Syriusly]

2, Child support
You are going to have to change the law so a BLOOD parent can get child support from a NON blood parent. THAT would endanger EVERY step parent on the planet and COULD lead to the total destruction of any and ALL marriages.
.

Again- covered by existing law that already applies to every couple who uses any kind fertility assistance.

What marriage will do is provide additional protections for children- since the children of the marriage will be covered by marriage law- just like the children of straight couples already are.