Gallup: Conservatives Finish 2009 as No. 1 Ideological Group-so you know it is higher

[Neotrotsky]

Your opinions aren't fact, Neo. That's what you don't get, I think. What you believe only means something to you, not a thing to anyone else. Your opinions are not facts.

Yeah, for some odd reason he just fails to grasp that simple concept. LOL

He believes is so it must be true. LOL

Perhaps, if you one wants to limit themselves to some simplistic definition from "Websters"


Socialism can exist with enough gov't fiat
Indeed, enough regulation and gov't involvement, the gov't can, de facto "own" the means of production

Of course, for some odd reason, you fail to grasp that simple concept LOL

 

[drsmith1072]

I know difference of opinion may shock you; but we have not quite reached a total socialist state where difference of opinion may be frowned upon

Good news for you- we are slowing getting there

We are not talking about a difference of opinon you made a claim stated it was true (meaning it was based on fact) and I asked you to prove your claim. Despite your complete failure to offer anything of substance to support your BELIEF you continue to claim that it has been substantiated and is true merely because you say so. Sorry but that does not meet the burden of proof.

So do you have any answers to the questions I asked? What are you afraid of?? LOL

Well, we must talking of a difference of opinion since you do not agree with the statement.
Unless, you are saying that you have no stand on this issue.

The question has been asked and answered- However, your "badgering of the witness" is noted.

Yes, I did make a claim; yes I feel it is true; yes Papa Obama's policies are the proof
There is no failure here; except failure/unwillingness on your part to accept it.

Again, you saying it does not meet the "burden of proof" does not make it so.

Of course, it is curious that you have offered no information to show me why my opinion is not true

Funny how that works

How many times do you have to be told that your "feelings" and "beliefs" don't make it true before you will understand it??

AGAIN, for the slow such as yourself. I didn't say that you were WRONG in my statement but it's apparent that you don't know how to read. LOL
In order to PROVE a claim you have to offer PROOF which consists of FACTS that pertain to and support the discussion. You haven't offered any FACTS to support your claim. You just keep repeating it. LOL

 

[Neotrotsky]

NO they haven't been substantiated. I proved that when I provided your statements. You have offered the same unsubstantiated OPINION over and over again with no links and no facts to support your claims. Face it, you have NOTHING.

The funny thing is in the last sentence you claim that disagreeing with a statement does not make it false and yet you believe that if YOU agree with a statement that makes it true. LOL you are spinning so hard you forgot where you started LOL

Furthermore, I never said you were wrong. The part that you put in bold type was part of a WHOLE statement. So it's funny how you dishonestly focus only on the part that you try to spin as you take it out of context.
I said prove your statement or admit that you are wrong. So why are you so dishonest? Are you really that desperate to spin as you try to CYA? This desperation on your part shows that you are losing the argument and you know it. LOL

However, in one aspect you are correct.



I see nothing offered by you that one could reach this conclusion. that the statement is correct. But again, I am open to discussion of this idea.

So when are you going to offer anything of substance so we can discuss it? LOL

CYA from what- the statement stands and I do not run from it all



It has been offered; you prefer to keep saying it is nothing and that the statements are "wrong" but not saying why

Funny how that works

I never said it's nothing. So why so dishonest. I asked you to prove it and you have failed to do so. Got a link to support your claim?? How about anything factual?? Do you have anything other than your opinion which is all you have offered

BTW thanks for LYING yet again but I have already pointed out that I never said you were wrong.
Here it is for you again.

Furthermore, I never said you were wrong. The part that you put in bold type was part of a WHOLE statement. So it's funny how you dishonestly focus only on the part that you try to spin as you take it out of context.
I said prove your statement or admit that you are wrong. So why are you so dishonest? Are you really that desperate to spin as you try to CYA? This desperation on your part shows that you are losing the argument and you know it.

Now will you admit to your dishonesty or will you continue to LIE about my statement?

Why do you continue to try to put words into my mouth and attack me for things I never said?

Well, if I misinterpreted your opinion as being say more left, for that I am sorry. I did not realize you have not taken a stand on this issue

Attack; dishonesty ? take it easy pal, I would not want you to feel "put upon"
(a little accusatory- don't you think)



Again, you can do all the "badgering the witness " you want
My "proof" are the policies of Papa Obama

 

[JakeStarkey]

Neo, socialism is a state-controlled economy with centralized planning and operation of services and personnel. Nothing like that is happening. Please (I am being really nice), your opinion is not fact.

 

[drsmith1072]

You do know that includes conservative republicans, democrats and independents don't you?? So i would hardly consider that a win for republicans. As for the increase being caused by an increase in independents calling themselves conservatives i wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that a lot of conservative republicans are now calling themselves independents?? Did the poll take into account this shift or did it ingore it??

First question I thought of as well.

Furthermore, in previous versions of this poll, gallup asked independents which party they felt more in line with and in the past versions of this polls democrats outnumbered republicans. Did this poll offer a similar question or did it ignore that this time??

They did. More of them leaned toward the Democrats.

ok, that's good on the "leaning toward democrats", because in one of the more recent polls presented on this board gallup left that question out. So it's nice that they included it in this one.

 

[Neotrotsky]

We are not talking about a difference of opinon you made a claim stated it was true (meaning it was based on fact) and I asked you to prove your claim. Despite your complete failure to offer anything of substance to support your BELIEF you continue to claim that it has been substantiated and is true merely because you say so. Sorry but that does not meet the burden of proof.

So do you have any answers to the questions I asked? What are you afraid of?? LOL

Well, we must talking of a difference of opinion since you do not agree with the statement.
Unless, you are saying that you have no stand on this issue.

The question has been asked and answered- However, your "badgering of the witness" is noted.

Yes, I did make a claim; yes I feel it is true; yes Papa Obama's policies are the proof
There is no failure here; except failure/unwillingness on your part to accept it.

Again, you saying it does not meet the "burden of proof" does not make it so.

Of course, it is curious that you have offered no information to show me why my opinion is not true

Funny how that works

How many times do you have to be told that your "feelings" and "beliefs" don't make it true before you will understand it??

AGAIN, for the slow such as yourself. I didn't say that you were WRONG in my statement but it's apparent that you don't know how to read. LOL
In order to PROVE a claim you have to offer PROOF which consists of FACTS that pertain to and support the discussion. You haven't offered any FACTS to support your claim. You just keep repeating it. LOL

How many times do you have to be told that your "feelings" and "beliefs" don't make it true before you will understand it??

How many times do you have to be told that my "feelings" and "beliefs" don't make it false before you will understand it??


For someone that is only seeking the "truth", you are rather argumentative and nasty.
""Methinks the lady doth protest too much" for someone that has no opinion on my position.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Neo, socialism is a state-controlled economy with centralized planning and operation of services and personnel. Nothing like that is happening. Please (I am being really nice), your opinion is not fact.

Nothing like that is happening?

Did you say that with a straight face? What color is the sky in your world?


Your are being nice- I appreciate that
Did you know that gov't fiat alone can act as a means towards socialism?


But again from before


Just curious....from before

Since the GOP is not in power and any movement in the polls towards them and conservatives is a reaction to the policies of the Democrats and Papa Obama, what do you see or expect the GOP to change?

Really, from a "Machiavellian" approach, at this rate the Dems and Papa Obama are going, the GOP does not have to do much

 

[JakeStarkey]

Neo, you can't have it both ways. You stated that socialism could operate outside of state control. It can't, and this government is not socialist.

Your opinion by itself does not count as fact, Neo.

 

[Polk]

Neo, you can't have it both ways. You stated that socialism could operate outside of state control. It can't, and this government is not socialist.

Your opinion by itself does not count as fact, Neo.

You don't understand. He wants to say it's socialist, but since it's not, he wants to define what "socialist" means. And we all know his opinion of what words mean is the highest standard.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Neo, you can't have it both ways. You stated that socialism could operate outside of state control. It can't, and this government is not socialist.

Your opinion by itself does not count as fact, Neo.

You don't understand. He wants to say it's socialist, but since it's not, he wants to define what "socialist" means. And we all know his opinion of what words mean is the highest standard.

Sure it can

Enough gov't dictates and regulations will allow the gov't to defacto "own the means of production"

This is not some new concept

Granted, many on the left find comfort and political protection by hanging on to some simplistic meaning of socialism, but it avoids reality.

It is no more than a poor attempt to "spin" the slow but steady incremental steps towards a more socialist state.

 

[drsmith1072]

CYA from what- the statement stands and I do not run from it all



It has been offered; you prefer to keep saying it is nothing and that the statements are "wrong" but not saying why

Funny how that works

I never said it's nothing. So why so dishonest. I asked you to prove it and you have failed to do so. Got a link to support your claim?? How about anything factual?? Do you have anything other than your opinion which is all you have offered

BTW thanks for LYING yet again but I have already pointed out that I never said you were wrong.
Here it is for you again.

Furthermore, I never said you were wrong. The part that you put in bold type was part of a WHOLE statement. So it's funny how you dishonestly focus only on the part that you try to spin as you take it out of context.
I said prove your statement or admit that you are wrong. So why are you so dishonest? Are you really that desperate to spin as you try to CYA? This desperation on your part shows that you are losing the argument and you know it.

Now will you admit to your dishonesty or will you continue to LIE about my statement?

Why do you continue to try to put words into my mouth and attack me for things I never said?

Well, if I misinterpreted your opinion as being say more left, for that I am sorry. I did not realize you have not taken a stand on this issue

Attack; dishonesty ? take it easy pal, I would not want you to feel "put upon"
(a little accusatory- don't you think)



Again, you can do all the "badgering the witness " you want
My "proof" are the policies of Papa Obama

It's not a matter of misinterpretation it's a matter of blatant dishonesty on your part. The first time to falsely accused me of saying you were wrong because you took my comment out of context COULD have been taken as a mistake but then you repeated that mistake after being corrected which make it a LIE.
Then you tried to put words into my mouth on yet another occasion exposing your dishonesty even more. Your own posts have shown you to be dishonest so don't blame me if you as a "witness" get convicted of perjury or at least making false statements under oath. LOL

What policies?? Show how EVERY policy obama has enacted or supported has move this country to the left?? that is the ONLY way for you to prove your claim. So go ahead. PROVE IT.

 

[Neotrotsky]

Neo, you can't have it both ways. You stated that socialism could operate outside of state control. It can't, and this government is not socialist.

Your opinion by itself does not count as fact, Neo.

No I stated that socialism can exist with enough gov't fiat or dictates

Are we a "pure" socialist state as in some political science class 101 - of course not
Of course, even the old USSR was not a pure Communist state.

Are we making steps towards a socialist state- yes we are or should I say "Yes We Can"

 

[Polk]

Neo, you can't have it both ways. You stated that socialism could operate outside of state control. It can't, and this government is not socialist.

Your opinion by itself does not count as fact, Neo.

You don't understand. He wants to say it's socialist, but since it's not, he wants to define what "socialist" means. And we all know his opinion of what words mean is the highest standard.

Sure it can

Enough gov't dictates and regulations will allow the gov't to defacto "own the means of production"

This is not some new concept

Granted, many on the left find comfort and political protection by hanging on to some simplistic meaning of socialism, but it avoids reality.

It is no more than a poor attempt to "spin" the slow but steady incremental steps towards a more socialist state.

It's not a simplistic meaning. What you're saying could be true in the abstract, but would require a series of direct commands that don't exist in our nation.

 

[Neotrotsky]

I never said it's nothing. So why so dishonest. I asked you to prove it and you have failed to do so. Got a link to support your claim?? How about anything factual?? Do you have anything other than your opinion which is all you have offered

BTW thanks for LYING yet again but I have already pointed out that I never said you were wrong.
Here it is for you again.

Furthermore, I never said you were wrong. The part that you put in bold type was part of a WHOLE statement. So it's funny how you dishonestly focus only on the part that you try to spin as you take it out of context.
I said prove your statement or admit that you are wrong. So why are you so dishonest? Are you really that desperate to spin as you try to CYA? This desperation on your part shows that you are losing the argument and you know it.

Now will you admit to your dishonesty or will you continue to LIE about my statement?

Why do you continue to try to put words into my mouth and attack me for things I never said?

Well, if I misinterpreted your opinion as being say more left, for that I am sorry. I did not realize you have not taken a stand on this issue

Attack; dishonesty ? take it easy pal, I would not want you to feel "put upon"
(a little accusatory- don't you think)



Again, you can do all the "badgering the witness " you want
My "proof" are the policies of Papa Obama

It's not a matter of misinterpretation it's a matter of blatant dishonesty on your part. The first time to falsely accused me of saying you were wrong because you took my comment out of context COULD have been taken as a mistake but then you repeated that mistake after being corrected which make it a LIE.
Then you tried to put words into my mouth on yet another occasion exposing your dishonesty even more. Your own posts have shown you to be dishonest so don't blame me if you as a "witness" get convicted of perjury or at least making false statements under oath. LOL

What policies?? Show how EVERY policy obama has enacted or supported has move this country to the left?? that is the ONLY way for you to prove your claim. So go ahead. PROVE IT.

blatant dishonesty - please ?
Don't get your panties into a twist
We are having a discussion here- well I am - you are busy accusing me of everything
Next I will be blamed for the "Lindbergh kidnapping"

You do know that attacking me does not discredit my statements on Papa Obama?

I have done my part
Now you want a detailed list- part by part ? which 2000 page bill do you want me to start with?

Tell you what you give me detailed list of his plans, I will tell you why they are taking us towards a more socialist state. I say all of them how is that?



I am only guessing here- let me make that point- I don't want to be accused
It seems that you may not agree with my statement ( I know call me crazy )
It appears that most of your "resentment" comes from your inability to refute this statement.

Of course, I could be wrong and you do not support Papa Obama and his "goals"

 

[drsmith1072]

Well, we must talking of a difference of opinion since you do not agree with the statement.
Unless, you are saying that you have no stand on this issue.

The question has been asked and answered- However, your "badgering of the witness" is noted.

Yes, I did make a claim; yes I feel it is true; yes Papa Obama's policies are the proof
There is no failure here; except failure/unwillingness on your part to accept it.

Again, you saying it does not meet the "burden of proof" does not make it so.

Of course, it is curious that you have offered no information to show me why my opinion is not true

Funny how that works

How many times do you have to be told that your "feelings" and "beliefs" don't make it true before you will understand it??

AGAIN, for the slow such as yourself. I didn't say that you were WRONG in my statement but it's apparent that you don't know how to read. LOL
In order to PROVE a claim you have to offer PROOF which consists of FACTS that pertain to and support the discussion. You haven't offered any FACTS to support your claim. You just keep repeating it. LOL

How many times do you have to be told that your "feelings" and "beliefs" don't make it true before you will understand it??

How many times do you have to be told that my "feelings" and "beliefs" don't make it false before you will understand it??


For someone that is only seeking the "truth", you are rather argumentative and nasty.
""Methinks the lady doth protest too much" for someone that has no opinion on my position.

So you are now avoiding the debate. I wonder why? LOL

But yeah you are right, YOUR feelings and beliefs don't make it true or false. Now if you could please provide some FACTS to support your claim that would be greatly appreciated. Did you notice how you edited my statement and still made it apply to YOU. LOL

 

[Neotrotsky]

You don't understand. He wants to say it's socialist, but since it's not, he wants to define what "socialist" means. And we all know his opinion of what words mean is the highest standard.

Sure it can

Enough gov't dictates and regulations will allow the gov't to defacto "own the means of production"

This is not some new concept

Granted, many on the left find comfort and political protection by hanging on to some simplistic meaning of socialism, but it avoids reality.

It is no more than a poor attempt to "spin" the slow but steady incremental steps towards a more socialist state.

It's not a simplistic meaning. What you're saying could be true in the abstract, but would require a series of direct commands that don't exist in our nation.

Sure they do- what industry is not touch by gov't?
Mind you , this is not something the new administration has done by themselves
This slow incremental process has been going on for years under both Democrat and Republican administrations.

I believe Norman Thomas (Socialist Party presidential candidate in the 1940's) said it the best:


“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But under the name of Liberalism, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without knowing how it happened.”

 

[Neotrotsky]

How many times do you have to be told that your "feelings" and "beliefs" don't make it true before you will understand it??

AGAIN, for the slow such as yourself. I didn't say that you were WRONG in my statement but it's apparent that you don't know how to read. LOL
In order to PROVE a claim you have to offer PROOF which consists of FACTS that pertain to and support the discussion. You haven't offered any FACTS to support your claim. You just keep repeating it. LOL

How many times do you have to be told that your "feelings" and "beliefs" don't make it true before you will understand it??

How many times do you have to be told that my "feelings" and "beliefs" don't make it false before you will understand it??


For someone that is only seeking the "truth", you are rather argumentative and nasty.
""Methinks the lady doth protest too much" for someone that has no opinion on my position.

So you are now avoiding the debate. I wonder why? LOL

But yeah you are right, YOUR feelings and beliefs don't make it true or false. Now if you could please provide some FACTS to support your claim that would be greatly appreciated. Did you notice how you edited my statement and still made it apply to YOU. LOL

Not at all- I am waiting for one

 

[drsmith1072]

Well, if I misinterpreted your opinion as being say more left, for that I am sorry. I did not realize you have not taken a stand on this issue

Attack; dishonesty ? take it easy pal, I would not want you to feel "put upon"
(a little accusatory- don't you think)



Again, you can do all the "badgering the witness " you want
My "proof" are the policies of Papa Obama

It's not a matter of misinterpretation it's a matter of blatant dishonesty on your part. The first time to falsely accused me of saying you were wrong because you took my comment out of context COULD have been taken as a mistake but then you repeated that mistake after being corrected which make it a LIE.
Then you tried to put words into my mouth on yet another occasion exposing your dishonesty even more. Your own posts have shown you to be dishonest so don't blame me if you as a "witness" get convicted of perjury or at least making false statements under oath. LOL

What policies?? Show how EVERY policy obama has enacted or supported has move this country to the left?? that is the ONLY way for you to prove your claim. So go ahead. PROVE IT.

blatant dishonesty - please ?
Don't get your panties into a twist
We are having a discussion here- well I am - you are busy accusing me of everything
Next I will be blamed for the "Lindbergh kidnapping"

You do know that attacking me does not discredit my statements on Papa Obama?

I have done my part
Now you want a detailed list- part by part ? which 2000 page bill do you want me to start with?

Tell you what you give me detailed list of his plans, I will tell you why they are taking us towards a more socialist state. I say all of them how is that?



I am only guessing here- let me make that point- I don't want to be accused
It seems that you may not agree with my statement ( I know call me crazy )
It appears that most of your "resentment" comes from your inability to refute this statement.

Of course, I could be wrong and you do not support Papa Obama and his "goals"

you repeated a false allegation after being shown that it was untrue. To me that is blatant dishonesty.

Furthermore you are NOT having a discussion you are "accusing" me of things i have shown to be false while whining as you try to claim I am accusing you. The difference is that I have shown PROOF of your dishonesty and how you took a comment I made out of context.

Furthermore, didn't I ask you for specific policies that show EVERYTHING obama has done has moved us to the left? So where are your links?? Where are your facts?? You keep claiming his policies show that everything he has done has taken us to the left so please put up or shut up.

It's YOUR claim the burden of providing the proof is on YOU. Stop running away coward and back up your claim OR admit that you are wrong.
Those are the only two choice left to an honest person in your self created situation. However, I have already shown that you are dishonest so I really don't expect honesty from you.

I have had fun playing with you as you spun out of countrol but I have to go for now. oh and on a closing note here is one that proves you WRONG.
How is obama sending more troops AGAINST the wishes of a decent portion of his base taking this country to the left?? Answer: it doesn't.
Oops there is at least ONE policy that is not left of center so that proves you WRONG.

Enjoy your weekend. HAHA

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Now they just need to show up in these coming elections. If they do,it shouldn't be too difficult to route the inept Socialists. We'll see i guess.

 

[Polk]

Sure it can

Enough gov't dictates and regulations will allow the gov't to defacto "own the means of production"

This is not some new concept

Granted, many on the left find comfort and political protection by hanging on to some simplistic meaning of socialism, but it avoids reality.

It is no more than a poor attempt to "spin" the slow but steady incremental steps towards a more socialist state.

It's not a simplistic meaning. What you're saying could be true in the abstract, but would require a series of direct commands that don't exist in our nation.

Sure they do- what industry is not touch by gov't?

That some regulations exist isn't the same as government control of the industry.