Four hard truths of health care reform

[Quantum Windbag]

That's not a technicality, that's the entire point of the discussion.

Actually, the entire point of the discussion is the only way the employer can actually keep a grandfathered plan is if he doesn't hire any new people.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Obama said that it would reduce people's premiums, period. Now he is saying that it will reduce the increase, which is also a lie. Either way, he lied.

Actually you're wrong which is no surprise.
Obamacare will lower premiums significantly by at least 14%
HHS: Health care reform is already working - J. Lester Feder - POLITICO.com
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/assets_c/2009/12/healthcoststable.html
Study: Repealing The Mandate Will Increase Premiums By 25 Percent | ThinkProgress

 

[Greenbeard]

Actually, the entire point of the discussion is the only way the employer can actually keep a grandfathered plan is if he doesn't hire any new people.

Do you read anything before speaking, ever? The statute, the regulations, anything?

The rightwing blogs that tell you what to think don't count.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Obama said that it would reduce people's premiums, period. Now he is saying that it will reduce the increase, which is also a lie. Either way, he lied.

Actually you're wrong which is no surprise.
Obamacare will lower premiums significantly by at least 14%
HHS: Health care reform is already working - J. Lester Feder - POLITICO.com
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/assets_c/2009/12/healthcoststable.html
Study: Repealing The Mandate Will Increase Premiums By 25 Percent | ThinkProgress

I am wrong? Obama didn't say premiums would go down and the deficit would go down by $1 trillion? Can you tell me who this is then, because he could get rich as a double for Obama.

RealClearPolitics - Video - Obama Says Health Premiums Will Go Down

 

[starcraftzzz]

Obama said that it would reduce people's premiums, period. Now he is saying that it will reduce the increase, which is also a lie. Either way, he lied.

Actually you're wrong which is no surprise.
Obamacare will lower premiums significantly by at least 14%
HHS: Health care reform is already working - J. Lester Feder - POLITICO.com
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/assets_c/2009/12/healthcoststable.html
Study: Repealing The Mandate Will Increase Premiums By 25 Percent | ThinkProgress

I am wrong? Obama didn't say premiums would go down and the deficit would go down by $1 trillion? Can you tell me who this is then, because he could get rich as a double for Obama.

RealClearPolitics - Video - Obama Says Health Premiums Will Go Down

Yes you are wrong because every study of the effects on obamacare show that premiums will decrease because of it.
Come back when you are ready to face reality

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Actually you're wrong which is no surprise.
Obamacare will lower premiums significantly by at least 14%
HHS: Health care reform is already working - J. Lester Feder - POLITICO.com
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/assets_c/2009/12/healthcoststable.html
Study: Repealing The Mandate Will Increase Premiums By 25 Percent | ThinkProgress

I am wrong? Obama didn't say premiums would go down and the deficit would go down by $1 trillion? Can you tell me who this is then, because he could get rich as a double for Obama.

RealClearPolitics - Video - Obama Says Health Premiums Will Go Down

Yes you are wrong because every study of the effects on obamacare show that premiums will decrease because of it.
Come back when you are ready to face reality

Every study? I personally have posted links to at least one study that says premiums will increase, so I know every study doesn't say that, even if all the ones you have read do. In addition to that, common sense tells anyone with a brain that requiring insurance to cover everything from hangnails to brain transplants is not going to reduce the cost of premiums.

I have faced reality, you are the one that believes in unicorns and rainbows.

 

[starcraftzzz]

I am wrong? Obama didn't say premiums would go down and the deficit would go down by $1 trillion? Can you tell me who this is then, because he could get rich as a double for Obama.

RealClearPolitics - Video - Obama Says Health Premiums Will Go Down

Yes you are wrong because every study of the effects on obamacare show that premiums will decrease because of it.
Come back when you are ready to face reality

Every study? I personally have posted links to at least one study that says premiums will increase, so I know every study doesn't say that, even if all the ones you have read do. In addition to that, common sense tells anyone with a brain that requiring insurance to cover everything from hangnails to brain transplants is not going to reduce the cost of premiums.

I have faced reality, you are the one that believes in unicorns and rainbows.

I see the problem here is that you think an opinion piece whit no analysis and number crunching as equal to an actual study

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yes you are wrong because every study of the effects on obamacare show that premiums will decrease because of it.
Come back when you are ready to face reality

Every study? I personally have posted links to at least one study that says premiums will increase, so I know every study doesn't say that, even if all the ones you have read do. In addition to that, common sense tells anyone with a brain that requiring insurance to cover everything from hangnails to brain transplants is not going to reduce the cost of premiums.

I have faced reality, you are the one that believes in unicorns and rainbows.

I see the problem here is that you think an opinion piece whit no analysis and number crunching as equal to an actual study

Opinion pieces are the stuff you post, I post actual studies.

I know you prefer studies like this one that shows that the CLASS Act will reduce costs.

https://www.cms.gov/ActuarialStudies/downloads/PPACA_2010-04-22.pdf

The reality is that it is not going to reduce anything, which is why it was dropped.

Sebelius On The CLASS Act: 'I Do Not See A Viable Path Forward' - Kaiser Health News

Even the government admitted all those studies and projections you keep posting are wrong, why won't you?

 

[starcraftzzz]

Every study? I personally have posted links to at least one study that says premiums will increase, so I know every study doesn't say that, even if all the ones you have read do. In addition to that, common sense tells anyone with a brain that requiring insurance to cover everything from hangnails to brain transplants is not going to reduce the cost of premiums.

I have faced reality, you are the one that believes in unicorns and rainbows.

I see the problem here is that you think an opinion piece whit no analysis and number crunching as equal to an actual study

Opinion pieces are the stuff you post, I post actual studies.

I know you prefer studies like this one that shows that the CLASS Act will reduce costs.

https://www.cms.gov/ActuarialStudies/downloads/PPACA_2010-04-22.pdf

The reality is that it is not going to reduce anything, which is why it was dropped.

Sebelius On The CLASS Act: 'I Do Not See A Viable Path Forward' - Kaiser Health News

Even the government admitted all those studies and projections you keep posting are wrong, why won't you?

You do realize when you actually look at the studies you just posted they agree with me that Obamacare will expand health access by millions yet will simultaneously reduces premiums and total costs.
Next time read the shit you post then you wont look like such a retard

 

[Full-Auto]

I see the problem here is that you think an opinion piece whit no analysis and number crunching as equal to an actual study

Opinion pieces are the stuff you post, I post actual studies.

I know you prefer studies like this one that shows that the CLASS Act will reduce costs.

https://www.cms.gov/ActuarialStudies/downloads/PPACA_2010-04-22.pdf

The reality is that it is not going to reduce anything, which is why it was dropped.

Sebelius On The CLASS Act: 'I Do Not See A Viable Path Forward' - Kaiser Health News

Even the government admitted all those studies and projections you keep posting are wrong, why won't you?

You do realize when you actually look at the studies you just posted they agree with me that Obamacare will expand health access by millions yet will simultaneously reduces premiums and total costs.
Next time read the shit you post then you wont look like such a retard

Hey, you hit on something Reducing premium costs.

That is where your argument disintegrates. The increased coverage in benefits will cause and has caused premium increases.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I see the problem here is that you think an opinion piece whit no analysis and number crunching as equal to an actual study

Opinion pieces are the stuff you post, I post actual studies.

I know you prefer studies like this one that shows that the CLASS Act will reduce costs.

https://www.cms.gov/ActuarialStudies/downloads/PPACA_2010-04-22.pdf

The reality is that it is not going to reduce anything, which is why it was dropped.

Sebelius On The CLASS Act: 'I Do Not See A Viable Path Forward' - Kaiser Health News

Even the government admitted all those studies and projections you keep posting are wrong, why won't you?

You do realize when you actually look at the studies you just posted they agree with me that Obamacare will expand health access by millions yet will simultaneously reduces premiums and total costs.
Next time read the shit you post then you wont look like such a retard

The first one is a prediction, not a study. I posted it to highlight how wrong it was about the Class Act and its costs, which were so high the entire program was cancelled, which was what my second link was about. It wasn't a study about anything, it was a press release. The fact that you are trying to site the second study I posted to prove your point proves how stupid you are, and that you are not even reading the links I post.

Thanks for making my case for me.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Opinion pieces are the stuff you post, I post actual studies.

I know you prefer studies like this one that shows that the CLASS Act will reduce costs.

https://www.cms.gov/ActuarialStudies/downloads/PPACA_2010-04-22.pdf

The reality is that it is not going to reduce anything, which is why it was dropped.

Sebelius On The CLASS Act: 'I Do Not See A Viable Path Forward' - Kaiser Health News

Even the government admitted all those studies and projections you keep posting are wrong, why won't you?

You do realize when you actually look at the studies you just posted they agree with me that Obamacare will expand health access by millions yet will simultaneously reduces premiums and total costs.
Next time read the shit you post then you wont look like such a retard

The first one is a prediction, not a study. I posted it to highlight how wrong it was about the Class Act and its costs, which were so high the entire program was cancelled, which was what my second link was about. It wasn't a study about anything, it was a press release. The fact that you are trying to site the second study I posted to prove your point proves how stupid you are, and that you are not even reading the links I post.

Thanks for making my case for me.

Wait so according to you since every study proves my point you must be correct.
God damn.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You do realize when you actually look at the studies you just posted they agree with me that Obamacare will expand health access by millions yet will simultaneously reduces premiums and total costs.
Next time read the shit you post then you wont look like such a retard

The first one is a prediction, not a study. I posted it to highlight how wrong it was about the Class Act and its costs, which were so high the entire program was cancelled, which was what my second link was about. It wasn't a study about anything, it was a press release. The fact that you are trying to site the second study I posted to prove your point proves how stupid you are, and that you are not even reading the links I post.

Thanks for making my case for me.

Wait so according to you since every study proves my point you must be correct.
God damn.

No, the fact that the government itself admitted that the CLASS Act, which the "study" said would save money, wouldn't save anything, proves I am right.

If that is too complicated for you I don't know what else to say.

 

[starcraftzzz]

Opinion pieces are the stuff you post, I post actual studies.

I know you prefer studies like this one that shows that the CLASS Act will reduce costs.

https://www.cms.gov/ActuarialStudies/downloads/PPACA_2010-04-22.pdf

The reality is that it is not going to reduce anything, which is why it was dropped.

Sebelius On The CLASS Act: 'I Do Not See A Viable Path Forward' - Kaiser Health News

Even the government admitted all those studies and projections you keep posting are wrong, why won't you?

You do realize when you actually look at the studies you just posted they agree with me that Obamacare will expand health access by millions yet will simultaneously reduces premiums and total costs.
Next time read the shit you post then you wont look like such a retard

The first one is a prediction, not a study. I posted it to highlight how wrong it was about the Class Act and its costs, which were so high the entire program was cancelled, which was what my second link was about. It wasn't a study about anything, it was a press release. The fact that you are trying to site the second study I posted to prove your point proves how stupid you are, and that you are not even reading the links I post.

Thanks for making my case for me.

You do also realize that the CLASS act was scored to INCREASE the deficit. No of course you didn't know that...
What the CLASS Act says about health-care reform - The Washington Post

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You do realize when you actually look at the studies you just posted they agree with me that Obamacare will expand health access by millions yet will simultaneously reduces premiums and total costs.
Next time read the shit you post then you wont look like such a retard

The first one is a prediction, not a study. I posted it to highlight how wrong it was about the Class Act and its costs, which were so high the entire program was cancelled, which was what my second link was about. It wasn't a study about anything, it was a press release. The fact that you are trying to site the second study I posted to prove your point proves how stupid you are, and that you are not even reading the links I post.

Thanks for making my case for me.

You do also realize that the CLASS act was scored to INCREASE the deficit. No of course you didn't know that...
What the CLASS Act says about health-care reform - The Washington Post

Did you know the link I posted, which you said proved I was wrong, said it would save the federal government $2.8 billion in 2011 and $4.5 billion this year?

Go home and play with your toy cars, you don't belong here playing with real people.

 

[starcraftzzz]

The first one is a prediction, not a study. I posted it to highlight how wrong it was about the Class Act and its costs, which were so high the entire program was cancelled, which was what my second link was about. It wasn't a study about anything, it was a press release. The fact that you are trying to site the second study I posted to prove your point proves how stupid you are, and that you are not even reading the links I post.

Thanks for making my case for me.

You do also realize that the CLASS act was scored to INCREASE the deficit. No of course you didn't know that...
What the CLASS Act says about health-care reform - The Washington Post

Did you know the link I posted, which you said proved I was wrong, said it would save the federal government $2.8 billion in 2011 and $4.5 billion this year?

Go home and play with your toy cars, you don't belong here playing with real people.

PLz read dumbass
"The problem with CLASS was well understood. It frontloaded its savings and backloaded its costs. As the Congressional Budget Office wrote (pdf), “the cash flows under the new program would generate budgetary savings (that is, a reduction in net federal outlays) for the 2010-2019 period and for the 10 years following 2019, followed by budgetary costs (an increase in net federal outlays) in subsequent decades.”"
Ill make a you a bet I'll go home if you make one post that isn't retarded, never mind if I made the bet I'd never see home again

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You do also realize that the CLASS act was scored to INCREASE the deficit. No of course you didn't know that...
What the CLASS Act says about health-care reform - The Washington Post

Did you know the link I posted, which you said proved I was wrong, said it would save the federal government $2.8 billion in 2011 and $4.5 billion this year?

Go home and play with your toy cars, you don't belong here playing with real people.

PLz read dumbass
"The problem with CLASS was well understood. It frontloaded its savings and backloaded its costs. As the Congressional Budget Office wrote (pdf), “the cash flows under the new program would generate budgetary savings (that is, a reduction in net federal outlays) for the 2010-2019 period and for the 10 years following 2019, followed by budgetary costs (an increase in net federal outlays) in subsequent decades.”"
Ill make a you a bet I'll go home if you make one post that isn't retarded, never mind if I made the bet I'd never see home again

No, the problem with the CLASS Act is that, even with the front loaded savings, it would not save anyone a single cent, and would have drained the treasury in no time. It was projected to save almost $40 billion in the first ten years, yet HHS has to trash it before it even started because it would have cost to much.

Thanks for, again, proving that you are an idiot. Find all the studies you like, post them all, I can still point to the real world fact that the CLASS Act was cancelled because it was pathetically nonviable. Imagine what the rest of the PPACA will accomplish.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

False. The language referring to collective bargaining has to do with the expiration date of the plans.

It also has to do with the type of plans that are protected, which are only those plans that were collectively bargained for.

You aren't interpreting it correctly.

Technically, if an individual has a policy through his employer, and the employer keeps the plan, it is still grandfathered, even if it isn't part of a union contract.

Which I am not protected by considering the plan my employer had was no longer going to be allowed and therefore no longer offered by the insurance company. This happened due to the new regulatoins.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It also has to do with the type of plans that are protected, which are only those plans that were collectively bargained for.

You aren't interpreting it correctly.

Technically, if an individual has a policy through his employer, and the employer keeps the plan, it is still grandfathered, even if it isn't part of a union contract.

Which I am not protected by considering the plan my employer had was no longer going to be allowed and therefore no longer offered by the insurance company. This happened due to the new regulatoins.

Which is why I said technically, the employer has so many conditions he has to meet to keep a grandfathered policy it is easier to change it.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Four hard truths about ObamaCare:

1. It's unConstitutional.
2. Nobody in their right minds wants it.
3. It was forced on the American public because of the shady way it was passed in Congress.
4. Even if fully implemented, there will still be uninsured people.

and don't forget its not capitalistic. People don't shop with their own money and providers don't list prices or compete with each other. That means its socialistic, costs go up and quality goes down for obvious reasons.