Former US Marine Attacked By Israeli Commandos

[Coyote]

I am very convinced that there is a very clear difference.

One is good, and one is evil.

When is ethnic cleansing ever good?

the answer that Cmike will give you, of course, is "when jews do it".

Nope. He opted for deflection with a side of red herring instead.

 

[jillian]

I am very convinced that there is a very clear difference.

One is good, and one is evil.

When is ethnic cleansing ever good?

there isn't any 'ethnic cleansing' in gaza.

and i'm sure when they stop firing missiles into s'derot and stop supporting terrorists, they'll have peace... just like everyone else who negotiated in good faith with israel.

 

[Shogun]

I am very convinced that there is a very clear difference.

One is good, and one is evil.

When is ethnic cleansing ever good?

there isn't any 'ethnic cleansing' in gaza.

and i'm sure when they stop firing missiles into s'derot and stop supporting terrorists, they'll have peace... just like everyone else who negotiated in good faith with israel.

oh.. you mean like those who were living on that land BEFORE israel was carved out by some european ruling body?


ohhh.. yea.. ok.






come on, Jillian.. I'm sure you won't mind acknowledging that the USA is primarily concerned about, and reserved for the sake of, Christian white people, right? What a small think to demand for all of those rights you enjoy!

 

[CMike]

When is ethnic cleansing ever good?

the answer that Cmike will give you, of course, is "when jews do it".

Nope. He opted for deflection with a side of red herring instead.

Okay, I'll give you a straight answer. There is no ethnic cleansing done by Israelis.

If Hamas would stop shooting missiles into Israeli cities, recognize Israel and mean it, and negotiate in good faith, there would be peace.

Until that time, there won't be peace because Hamas doesn't want peace, it wants the complete destruction of Israel.

 

[GHook93]

I am very convinced that there is a very clear difference.

One is good, and one is evil.

When is ethnic cleansing ever good?

Do you mean by Hamas firing missiles at Sderot and the surrounding Gaza Jewish Areas in order to cause Israelis to move away from the Gaza border. Or when the Israeli Arab towns won't allow Jews to move in. Or Palestine calling for all the Jews to be removed from their territory when Palestine is finally created?

 

[Coyote]

I am very convinced that there is a very clear difference.

One is good, and one is evil.

When is ethnic cleansing ever good?

there isn't any 'ethnic cleansing' in gaza.

There has been a systemic and calibrated "ethnic cleansing" since the founding of the modern state:

According to Israeli author Benny Morris and recently declassified Israeli documents:

Another crucial precondition was the penchant among Yishuv leaders to regard transfer as a legitimate solution to the "Arab problem." Recently declassified Zionist documents demonstrated the virtual consensus emerged among the Zionist leadership, the the wake of the publication in July 1937 of the Peel Commission recommendations, in favor of the transfer of at least several hundred thousand Palestinian Arabs--if not all of them-- out of the areas of the Jewish state-to-be. The tone was set by Ben-Gurion himself in June 1938:

"I support compulsory [Palestinian Arab population] transfer. I do not see in it anything immoral."

Ben-Gurion's views did not change--though he was aware of the need, for a tactical reasons, to be discreet. In 1944, at a meeting of the Jewish Agency Executive discussing how the Zionist movement should deal with the British Labor Party decision to recommend the transfer of Palestinian Arabs, he said:

"When I heard these things. . . I had to ponder the matter long and hard ....[but] I reached the conclusion that this matter [had best] remain [in the Labor Party Program] . . . Were I asked what should be our program, it would not occur to me to tell them transfer . . . because speaking about the matter might harm [us] . . . in world opinion, because it might give the impression that there is no room in the Land of Israel without ousting the Arabs [and] . . . it would alert and antagonize the Arabs . . ."

It is also subtly and not so subtly ongoing:
Arab villages can not get permits for expansion or permits to build new settlements (hence overcrowding which lead to the stereotype of dirty arabs overusing their resources)
Building permits in Jeruselum are Jewish only.
The ability to buy land is sharply curtailed for Arab Israeli's
Immigration into Israel is also curtailed for family members of Arab Israeli's.
Very very few of the Palestinians who fled were permitted to return to their homes and properties.

I understand Israel's demographic paradox when it comes to the "right of return" issue - but it doesn't change the fact that ethnic cleansing has occurred or is ongoing.

Ethnic cleansing doesn't necessarily mean genocide.

and i'm sure when they stop firing missiles into s'derot and stop supporting terrorists, they'll have peace... just like everyone else who negotiated in good faith with israel.

I'm sure that would help, but I don't think it is the only step necessary for peace.

 

[Coyote]

I am very convinced that there is a very clear difference.

One is good, and one is evil.

When is ethnic cleansing ever good?

Do you mean by Hamas firing missiles at Sderot and the surrounding Gaza Jewish Areas in order to cause Israelis to move away from the Gaza border. Or when the Israeli Arab towns won't allow Jews to move in. Or Palestine calling for all the Jews to be removed from their territory when Palestine is finally created?

Ethnic cleansing, as defined by the UN: "the planned deliberate removal from a specific territory, persons of a particular ethnic group, by force or intimidation, in order to render that area ethnically homogenous."

Hamas firing missiles is terrorism and/or an act of war, not ethnic cleansing.

Israeli Arab towns not allowing Jews to move in (and likewise, Jewish towns not allowing Arabs to move in) is not in and of itself "ethnic cleansing" either.

If Palestine acted upon their call for all the Jews to be removed from their territory when Palestine is finally created - it would indeed be ethnic cleansing. But, how about sticking to the actual instead of theoretical?

 

[CMike]

palestineremember.com is real objective source.

 

[CMike]

When is ethnic cleansing ever good?

Do you mean by Hamas firing missiles at Sderot and the surrounding Gaza Jewish Areas in order to cause Israelis to move away from the Gaza border. Or when the Israeli Arab towns won't allow Jews to move in. Or Palestine calling for all the Jews to be removed from their territory when Palestine is finally created?

Ethnic cleansing, as defined by the UN: "the planned deliberate removal from a specific territory, persons of a particular ethnic group, by force or intimidation, in order to render that area ethnically homogenous."

Hamas firing missiles is terrorism and/or an act of war, not ethnic cleansing.

Israeli Arab towns not allowing Jews to move in (and likewise, Jewish towns not allowing Arabs to move in) is not in and of itself "ethnic cleansing" either.

If Palestine acted upon their call for all the Jews to be removed from their territory when Palestine is finally created - it would indeed be ethnic cleansing. But, how about sticking to the actual instead of theoretical?

Your arguements are rather silly since there are arabs who are full Israeli citizens and who are represented in the Israeli parliament.

Ethnic cleansing is what the Turkeys did to the armenians and the kurds.

 

[CMike]

Arab citizens of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Representation in political, judicial and military positions

Cabinet: Nawaf Massalha, an Arab Muslim, has served in various junior ministerial roles, including Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, since 1999.[101] Until 2001, no Arab had been included in a Prime Minister's cabinet, or invited to join any political coalition. In 2001, this changed, when Salah Tarif, a Druze Arab citizen of Israel, was appointed a member of Sharon's cabinet without a portfolio. Tarif was later ejected after being convicted of corruption.[102] In 2007 the first non-Druze Arab minister in Israel's history, Raleb Majadele, was appointed a minister without portfolio, and a month later appointed minister for Science, Culture and Sport.[44][103] The appointment of Majadele was criticized by far-right Israelis, some of whom are also within the Cabinet, but this drew condemnation across the mainstream Israeli political spectrum.[45][104] Meanwhile Arab lawmakers called the appointment an attempt to "whitewash Israel's discriminatory policies against its Arab minority".[105][106]

Knesset: Arab citizens of Israel have been elected to every Knesset, and currently hold 12 of its 120 seats. The first female Arab MP was Hussniya Jabara, a Muslim Arab from central Israel, who was elected in 1999.[107]

Supreme Court: Abdel Rahman Zuabi, a secular Muslim from northern Israel, was the first Arab on the Israeli Supreme Court, serving a 9-month term in 1999. In 2004, Salim Joubran, a Christian Arab from Haifa descended from Lebanese Maronites, became the first Arab to hold a permanent appointment on the Court. Jubran's expertise lies in the field of criminal law.[108]

Foreign Service: Ali Yahya, an Arab Muslim, became the first Arab ambassador for Israel in 1995 when he was appointed ambassador to Finland. He served until 1999, and in 2006 was appointed ambassador to Greece. Other Arab ambassadors include Walid Mansour, a Druze, appointed ambassador to Vietnam in 1999, and Reda Mansour, also a Druze, a former ambassador to Ecuador. Mohammed Masarwa, an Arab Muslim, was Consul-General in Atlanta. In 2006, Ishmael Khaldi was appointed Israeli consul in San Francisco, becoming the first Bedouin consul of the State of Israel.[109]

Israel Defense Forces: Arab Generals in the IDF include Major General Hussain Fares, commander of Israel's border police, and Major General Yosef Mishlav, head of the Home Front Command and current Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories.[110] Both are members of the Druze community. Other high ranking officers in the IDF include Lieutenant Colonel Amos Yarkoni (born Abd el-Majid Hidr/ عبد الماجد حيد&#1585 from the Bedouin community, a legendary officer in the Israel Defense Forces and one of six Israeli Arabs to have received the IDF's third highest decoration, the Medal of Distinguished Service.

 

[Coyote]

Do you mean by Hamas firing missiles at Sderot and the surrounding Gaza Jewish Areas in order to cause Israelis to move away from the Gaza border. Or when the Israeli Arab towns won't allow Jews to move in. Or Palestine calling for all the Jews to be removed from their territory when Palestine is finally created?

Ethnic cleansing, as defined by the UN: "the planned deliberate removal from a specific territory, persons of a particular ethnic group, by force or intimidation, in order to render that area ethnically homogenous."

Hamas firing missiles is terrorism and/or an act of war, not ethnic cleansing.

Israeli Arab towns not allowing Jews to move in (and likewise, Jewish towns not allowing Arabs to move in) is not in and of itself "ethnic cleansing" either.

If Palestine acted upon their call for all the Jews to be removed from their territory when Palestine is finally created - it would indeed be ethnic cleansing. But, how about sticking to the actual instead of theoretical?

Your arguements are rather silly since there are arabs who are full Israeli citizens and who are represented in the Israeli parliament.

Ethnic cleansing is what the Turkeys did to the armenians and the kurds.

Of course you've heard of the term "token representation"?

 

[Coyote]

palestineremember.com is real objective source.

Benny Morris is a published author - an Israeli, and, in his words, a "Zionist" - I can find his material elsewhere as well, that was the first link I found. Look him up, rather thann depending on the source.

 

[P F Tinmore]

seems neither side can see their own faults

REAL easy to see the difference between the side that uses terrorism against noncombatants as a strategy to wiping an established religion, race and nation from the face of the Earth, and the legitimate military of a nation chasing those criminals down.

Do you mean like when Israel sent its troops out to attack Palestinian civilians driving out 300,00 of them before the start of the 1948 war.

Is that the terrorism you are talking about?

I know ya'all don't like it but it is true.

Deal with it.

 

[ErikViking]

The olive branch was extended to the official representative of the Pali's. That was Arafat and Fatah. Then the people voted Hamas into power to represent them. You vote for a criminal to represent you, don't cry when you suffer consequences for their actions.

The term bad guys and goods in the singular form is figurative, but then, you know that.

Play semantics with someone else. People playing your game of semantics are what has marginalized the topic from both sides by trying to present one side, the other or both as something they are not.

Well, I think you are wrong. Keeping a critical mind open, beeing objective is a good way to ensure nothing gets marginalized. As for the the olive branch, it is quite obvious that Israel atleast sees beyond Hamas (or at the time Arafat).

I base my opinions not in political, religious or ancient historical arguments. I base it on every participants obligation to ensure the saftey of civilians. It would seem quite clear that I do not marginalize anything here?

 

[ErikViking]

There's a there good guy are and a a bad guy lot here, one of right and innocent one wrong people , one criminal getting one not. hurt It's no it more complicated is than that and calling "shades of gray" not does nothing but marginalize the actions on ok both sides.

Modifying quotes to alter their meaning is against the rules on this board. Please refrain from doing so in the future.

Yeah... my bad. Thanks for a fair warning!

 

[P F Tinmore]

I am very convinced that there is a very clear difference.

One is good, and one is evil.

When is ethnic cleansing ever good?

Do you mean by Hamas firing missiles at Sderot and the surrounding Gaza Jewish Areas in order to cause Israelis to move away from the Gaza border. Or when the Israeli Arab towns won't allow Jews to move in. Or Palestine calling for all the Jews to be removed from their territory when Palestine is finally created?

Sderot was built on top of the Palestinian village of Najd that was ethnically cleansed by Israel on May 13, 1948.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

When is ethnic cleansing ever good?

Do you mean by Hamas firing missiles at Sderot and the surrounding Gaza Jewish Areas in order to cause Israelis to move away from the Gaza border. Or when the Israeli Arab towns won't allow Jews to move in. Or Palestine calling for all the Jews to be removed from their territory when Palestine is finally created?

Sderot was built on top of the Palestinian village of Najd that was ethnically cleansed by Israel on May 13, 1948.

******* liar!!!! What did the UN say about that?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Do you mean by Hamas firing missiles at Sderot and the surrounding Gaza Jewish Areas in order to cause Israelis to move away from the Gaza border. Or when the Israeli Arab towns won't allow Jews to move in. Or Palestine calling for all the Jews to be removed from their territory when Palestine is finally created?

Sderot was built on top of the Palestinian village of Najd that was ethnically cleansed by Israel on May 13, 1948.

******* liar!!!! What did the UN say about that?

Najd (Arabic: نجد&#8206 was a Palestinian Arab village, located 14 kilometers (9 mi) northeast of Gaza City. During the British Mandate in Palestine, children from Najd attended school in the nearby village of Simsim. On 13 May 1948, Najd was occupied by the Negev Brigade as part of Operation Barak, and the villagers were expelled[5] and fled to Gaza. In 1951, the town of Sderot was built on the village's lands.

According to Benny Morris, the villagers of Najd were "driven out" by soldiers from the Negev Brigade on 12–13 May

Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I can't find where the UN said anything.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Sderot was built on top of the Palestinian village of Najd that was ethnically cleansed by Israel on May 13, 1948.

******* liar!!!! What did the UN say about that?

Najd (Arabic: نجد&#8206 was a Palestinian Arab village, located 14 kilometers (9 mi) northeast of Gaza City. During the British Mandate in Palestine, children from Najd attended school in the nearby village of Simsim. On 13 May 1948, Najd was occupied by the Negev Brigade as part of Operation Barak, and the villagers were expelled[5] and fled to Gaza. In 1951, the town of Sderot was built on the village's lands.

According to Benny Morris, the villagers of Najd were "driven out" by soldiers from the Negev Brigade on 12–13 May

Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I can't find where the UN said anything.

Yeah...I can write a wiki article and say they left voluntarily....

 

[PatekPhilippe]

I can't find where the UN said anything.[/

Precisely!!!!!