CDZ For violent teens...put their names on a database and allow gun stores to refuse to sell to them....

[Donald H]

A mountain of laws and regulations would not have stopped the shooting in Texas.

Salvador Ramos, age 18, was armed with a handgun. The minimum age for owning a handgun in Texas is 21. So, he obviously obtained the handgun illegally. What do you think the odds are that he obtained the AR-15 legally?

Probably slim to none.

Your idea is one of those measures which makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, but which actually accomplishes very little...

2A's idea may not have worked to stop this one, but it's huge progress in just the fact that he's entertaining the idea of a DATABASE!

2A is the uncontested leader of the pro-gun cause on this forum. Give the idea a chance!

 

[Canon Shooter]

I still think holding parents accountable is a key piece we're missing. If you let an attack dog loose in your neighborhood and it killed some kids, you'd be responsible for that.

Legally, an 18 year old is an adult.

At what point would you stop holding parents responsible for the actions of their children?

I'm almost 60 years old. If I flip out and shoot up a shopping mall, should my 88 year old mother be held responsible for that?

Because, essentially, you're saying exactly that...

 

[2aguy]

A mountain of laws and regulations would not have stopped the shooting in Texas.

Salvador Ramos, age 18, was armed with a handgun. The minimum age for owning a handgun in Texas is 21. So, he obviously obtained the handgun illegally. What do you think the odds are that he obtained the AR-15 legally?

Probably slim to none.

Your idea is one of those measures which makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, but which actually accomplishes very little...

No...doesn't make me warm and fuzzy, but it does give a gun store the ability to refuse to sell a gun.......as long as it isn't a law mandating the refusal of sale...

 

[Canon Shooter]

2A's idea may not have worked to stop this one, but it's huge progress in just the fact that he's entertaining the idea of a DATABASE!

2A is the uncontested leader of the pro-gun cause on this forum. Give the idea a chance!

Why? It's sort of silly to suggest such a measure immediately following an incident where that measure would've had zero impact...

 

[Donald H]

That is what I believe.....fatherless homes are the main driver of crime and generational poverty......

And this idea needs more work but it's at least a turn to social responsibility!

For example: Eliminate the causes of the fatherless homes and eliminate the need for guns in those homes. And much more!

 

[Canon Shooter]

No...doesn't make me warm and fuzzy, but it does give a gun store the ability to refuse to sell a gun.......as long as it isn't a law mandating the refusal of sale...

Why not enact a law which would actually help keep an 18 year old from obtaining a handgun?

Wouldn't that make much more sense?

 

[Donald H]

, but it does give a gun store the ability to refuse to sell a gun.......as long as it isn't a law mandating the refusal of sale...

It's a start!

Even if it depends on the seller of guns to have a moral conscience and refuse to sell guns to SOME people.

But it lacks the teeth of the law and will leave the gun store liable.

Can you refine your idea a bit?

 

[dblack]

Legally, an 18 year old is an adult.

At what point would you stop holding parents responsible for the actions of their children?

I'm almost 60 years old. If I flip out and shoot up a shopping mall, should my 88 year old mother be held responsible for that?

Because, essentially, you're saying exactly that...

That's a good question - it'd be akin to "how long after your attack dog escaped are you responsible for its actions? Days? Weeks? Years?"

I think a case by case evaluation is the only thing that really makes sense. For the times where it's egregious (eg a six year old takes a gun to school and kills classmates), we should definitely be prosecuting. I'm not sure what the circumstances were in this case.

 

[Donald H]

Why not enact a law which would actually help keep an 18 year old from obtaining a handgun?

Wouldn't that make much more sense?

Don't kill 2A's attempt at progress. Take it as a gift horse at least, until the idea is refined a bit.

 

[JoeMoma]

The last two shooters, one, a left wing authoritarian, eco-fascist....and the latest.....a violent nut job........they were both known to the police and to their schools, both had histories of either violence or making threats of violence....

They couldn't be arrested, and they couldn't be put in a psychiatric hospital......

So......here is a way to catch the few nut jobs who are in the grey area....

If a teen is identified by the school to the point the police are called multiple times, and the police go to their home for violent domestic situations....the police could simply put the kids name and face into a data base and supply it to all of the gun stores in the state...then, when the 18-21 year old shows up....the gun store can simply refuse to sell the kid a gun....

This covers the grey area where the kid doesn't have an actual criminal record or psychiatric commitment....

Some schools would put all their teens on that list.

 

[Canon Shooter]

That's a good question - it'd be akin to "how long after your attack dog escaped are you responsible for its actions? Days? Weeks? Years?"

I think a case by case evaluation is the only thing that really makes sense. For the times where it's egregious (eg a six year old takes a gun to school and kills classmates), we should definitely be prosecuting. I'm not sure what the circumstances were in this case.

Pretty simple, really: The assailant was an adult.

Apparently, some here believe that the parents should be held responsible for their adult child's actions...

 

[Canon Shooter]

Don't kill 2A's attempt at progress. Take it as a gift horse at least, until the idea is refined a bit.

It would need to be greatly refined before being enacted...

 

[Donald H]

Why? It's sort of silly to suggest such a measure immediately following an incident where that measure would've had zero impact...

No, that's flawed thinking. 2A's idea is huge progress in that it's in favour of establishing a DATABASE!

Your argument has to be that it will break the backbone of the gun lobby.

 

[2aguy]

Some schools would put all their teens on that list.

The process would have to be worked out...this wasn't your average teen problem....he had a history of violence at school and at home, and likely self mutilation...

 

[Esdraelon]

No...doesn't make me warm and fuzzy, but it does give a gun store the ability to refuse to sell a gun.......as long as it isn't a law mandating the refusal of sale...

If there was a legal way to accomplish this, I'd be willing to look at it but my gut reaction is to point to our Liberal member who hears your suggestion and begins to salivate over a DATABASE. Once we begin making lists, they will not long remain as intended.
If the government were trustworthy, we could have solved this years ago. No 2A is the hill millions are prepared to stand and fight on. 80+ million gun owners did NOTHING yesterday to harm innocent children and I'll be damned if anyone is going to shame me for exercising my right to keep and bear.

 

[2aguy]

So much for FREEDUMB, eh?

It is freedom..........this gives the gun store the freedom to refuse service.....no one has to sell you a gun......

 

[Canon Shooter]

No, that's flawed thinking. 2A's idea is huge progress in that it's in favour of establishing a DATABASE!

Your argument has to be that it will break the backbone of the gun lobby.

I've made no such argument. Do yourself a favor and stop trying to put words in my mouth...

 

[2aguy]

If there was a legal way to accomplish this, I'd be willing to look at it but my gut reaction is to point to our Liberal member who hears your suggestion and begins to salivate over a DATABASE. Once we begin making lists, they will not long remain as intended.
If the government were trustworthy, we could have solved this years ago. No 2A is the hill millions are prepared to stand and fight on. 80+ million gun owners did NOTHING yesterday to harm innocent children and I'll be damned if anyone is going to shame me for exercising my right to keep and bear.

Yep...which is why I am against it as well......you give the anti-gunners an inch and they start digging mass graves for future use....

 

[Canon Shooter]

It is freedom..........this gives the gun store the freedom to refuse service.....no one has to sell you a gun......

A gun store can already refuse to sell someone a gun...

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The last two shooters, one, a left wing authoritarian, eco-fascist...

This is a lie.

One cannot expect 'clean debate' with lies.

And authoritarian fascism is the sole purview of the right.