For those who want an accurate account of David Kay's testimony

[spillmind]

holy mad patriotism!

too bad it's like walking into a land mine posting here- everyone's suddenly got a trigger finger over this NYC disrespect thing! seriously! i would get paranoid sitting in the same room, due to the possibility of anyone one of these bushies just losing it and try to come after me! possible sadism?

no disrepect here of NYC, i don't know what it was like, so i'm not even going to try and relate. i think he was just trying to ask you why you defend bush and his 180°s?? i'll admit i am curious too.

sometimes i wonder if you are actually the puppet chimp himself, who figured out http://www.phpbb.com/ and got himself a little forum to raze anyone who opposed him! maybe IT in the WH hooked ya up??? nahhhhh. but i am seriously really suprised about how adamantly you back him. i can think of many things clinton did that were wrong, and i called a spade a spade! nobody is perfect.


truth is, you cannot stop terror. i honestly wouldn't feel safe in the same room with all of you if you all had guns, and i would consider anyone pointing, shooting me a terrorist. i myself can order drums of ammonium nitrate and load it into a truck, and i only have some lame bio job.

i don't do anything with it, because i know it's WRONG.

and america has never done WRONG to anyone, right?

 

[jon_forward]

spilly....the towers....NYC in general...very sore and touchy subject... rubbing salt on an open wound would not hurt as much as the dis-ing at the start of this thread....sorry you would not feel safe with any of them.....I would trust my life to them in a NY second.....a lil jumpy tonite there spilly...run out of meds???

 

[modman]

Originally posted by jon_forward
I am not from NYC nor have I ever had the pleasure of visiting this great city. However, after the twin towers if there had been a way for me to go there I would have been there. If there are people laughing at NYC ,I wonder what is so funny? almost 3000 lives lost and you laugh...as for what G.W.has done for the country...are you serious??? as for protecting the empire state building....what do you propose???shut down NYC? how about move it? do you want a garison in your backyard??? Life has return to a resembilance of normal for the city and this nation..there will always be a crackpot that wants his 15 minutes of fame....how far are you going to get TRYING to buy fertilizer..safe gaurds are in place....Aisle 7...middle of the row, on sale...tin-foil

See this guy just made my point. It is exactly my point that you think you are safer! Thats just rediculous. You want to know what your safeguards mean out here: I would'nt have to go much farther than my local farm to get that material! Tinfoil? Give me a break! Like I said you think your getting security but It's just ludicrous that you have this illusion that your any safer today. I don't want my 15 minutes of fame, I want to stop paying for things that are complete wastes of taxpayer dollars. Why do you all make it sound like I'm laghing at 3000 people dying.? I am laghing at this illusion that what is good for NYC and WDC is benefitting the rest of the country. Unbeleiveable. Get over yourselves. Christ how many people die from cancer each year. I beleive we could save alot more lives with cancer research and treatment. I beleive it is a much worse way of dying just from my personal experience. Your friends and family died with some dignity and died quickly for the most part. Like I said my comments are blunt but I am not a great writer. If it offends anyone I am sorry for that and if you feel you have to boot me, then boot me, but I can't sugar coat my feelings.

 

[bamthin]

Originally posted by jimnyc
Why? Should we have just forgotten about him? He needed to be removed regardless of 9/11. That day just proved to the world that you can't allow these types of people to get to a point where they can harm us.

The attack on Saddam took forces away from the search for Bin Laden. What part of that don't you understand? That brilliant diversion now has Al-Qaeda in Iraq killing Americans because Bush didn't finish the job in Afghanistan

Originally posted by jimnyc
Forgive him? I was never angry at him to begin with! I applaud his efforts in fact. Saddam's removal and the leaders that followed removed a lot of terror from the world.

Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. Has terror in the world been reduced? Saddam was a neutered leader of an incapacitated country, yet somehow more important than the mastermind of the worst attack on American soil (who is still roaming around laughing at us)

Originally posted by jimnyc
Those very capable UN inspectors you speak of were being played like a violin by Saddam.

Oh I see...played like a violin so they wouldn't find the massive stockpiles of WMD Saddam was hiding. Hello?

Originally posted by jimnyc
Iraq and Osama are 2 different scenarios tied together by the overall war on terrorism. Going after one in no way means the other got away with anything. The hunt for Osama continues and troops remain in Afghanistan. They both need a troop presence. It doesn't take a genius to realize that Iraq needed a larger force.

It also doesn't take a genius to see that removing troops from Afghanistan would make finding Bin Laden harder and the longer he is on the loose, the less safe America is from actually being attacked by someone.

Originally posted by jimnyc
Retaking Afghanistan? You're joking, right?

I wish I was.

http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav050503a.shtml

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0508/p01s02-wosc.html

Originally posted by jimnyc
Everyone that I know of in the NYC metropolitan area is pleased with Bush and confident that Osama will be brought to justice, or killed. I've yet to hear about one survivor, or family of a victim, condemn the efforts so far. I've heard zero complaints about the efforts in Afghanistan to capture Osama.

Have you heard any complaints about the progress of the 9/11 investigation by any of the 9/11 survivors groups? Ever hear of Jeremy M. Glick.


-Bam

 

[wonderwench]

Originally posted by bamthin
All of you who want justice and revenge for 9/11 should be furious with Bush for wasting time, money and lives going after Saddam Hussein. How can you forgive him for watering down the troop presence in Afghanistan to pursue Saddam Hussein, a man who had nothing to do with 9/11 and also had a contingency of very capable UN inspectors in Iraq looking for WMD? All the while, the Taliban and Al-Qaeda were retaking Afghanistan.

Disgraceful and an insult to those who perished on 9/11.

-Bam

Wrong. Put on your thinking cap and try again.

The logistical and financial network which supports the radical Islamic Jihad against the West is quite extensive. Saddam was an active supporter. His removal from power makes us all safer.

 

[bamthin]

Originally posted by wonderwench
Wrong. Put on your thinking cap and try again.

The logistical and financial network which supports the radical Islamic Jihad against the West is quite extensive. Saddam was an active supporter. His removal from power makes us all safer.

Put on your tin-foil hat and try again. Once again...Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11!! Bush diverted our efforts to capture Bin Laden by pursuing Saddam. Once Saddam is captured and AL-Qaeda flushed out, the War on Terror is over.

Sorry, but the blank check to invade countries on the basis of shitty evidence is over. I am afraid you are in a serious case of denial if you think the US has any credibility left in the world community anymore. If Bush even whispers about trying this bullshit again, Blair will even laugh at him.

Perle and Wolfowitz's master plan fizzled before it really got started. And just think....Israel could have had us wipe out the whole Middle East for them. So close....yet so far.


-Bam

 

[NightTrain]

Perle and Wolfowitz's master plan fizzled before it really got started. And just think....Israel could have had us wipe out the whole Middle East for them. So close....yet so far.

Wow! So, 9/11 WAS all a Jewish plot! No kidding??

I just know you have concrete proof, otherwise you'd look like an utter fool!

 

[NightTrain]

i would get paranoid sitting in the same room, due to the possibility of anyone one of these bushies just losing it

That's wise thinking, Spilly, because if you were to spout the utter horseshit you love to repeat around most people, you'd be bitch slapped into next week.

FYI - Homies in TeePees huddled around a bong aren't normal people. Honest Injun.

 

[spillmind]

wow NT! you sound so tough from behind that monitor!

nice rebuttal! great points!

 

[Lefty Wilbury]

i hate to break the news to some people but throwing troops into afghanistan won't find obl faster and history proves that point. the brits sent over 150,000 troops into what now is the boarder area between pakisthan and afghanistan to find tribal leaders. they failed. it's not troop strenth that will work in that area it's human intel and getting the right lucky breaks that will catch mullah omar, ayman al zawahri and even obl if he's even alive. so the notion of throwing more people into that area won't do any good except get them killed.

 

[jimnyc]

The attack on Saddam took forces away from the search for Bin Laden. What part of that don't you understand? That brilliant diversion now has Al-Qaeda in Iraq killing Americans because Bush didn't finish the job in Afghanistan

I don't care where the troops came from. At the time, removing Saddam was job #1 and additional troops were necessary.

Are you saying that if the soldiers remained in Afghanistan that Al Qaeda would have been eliminated? That they wouldn't have been able to have terrorists in Iraq?

And suppose they didn't maneuver troops from Afghanistan, wouldn't the likelihood of American soldiers getting killed in Iraq have increased due to lack of manpower? It's easy for you to sit back and judge where our soldiers are needed most, but then again you don't know shit about how our military currently operates.

Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11. Has terror in the world been reduced? Saddam was a neutered leader of an incapacitated country, yet somehow more important than the mastermind of the worst attack on American soil (who is still roaming around laughing at us)

Who said Saddam did have anything to do with 9/11? Here's a miniscule project that even YOU can handle, show me where I stated Saddam had anything to do with 9/11.

Terror leaders and major operatives have been captured and killed. Quite a few terror plots have been unfolded and stopped before the terrorist can act. Yes, terrorists have taken a serious hit in the past year.

Who said Iraq was more important than Osama? Can you handle 2 projects at once? Maneuvering troops to where the resistance is highest is just common sense. The search for Osama never stopped.

Oh I see...played like a violin so they wouldn't find the massive stockpiles of WMD Saddam was hiding. Hello?

It doesn't matter, it was Saddam's job to prove what he did and didn't have, not the inspectors. He refused, lied & played his little cat and mouse games for 12 years. He gambled and lost.

It also doesn't take a genius to see that removing troops from Afghanistan would make finding Bin Laden harder and the longer he is on the loose, the less safe America is from actually being attacked by someone.

What has happened since 9/11 to make you think America is unsafer due to Osama not being captured yet? Specifics, please.

I wish I was.

http://www.eurasianet.org/departmen...av050503a.shtml

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0508/p01s02-wosc.html

Like I said, you're joking, right?

Al Qaeda is supposedly regrouping in Iraq, does that mean they are retaking Iraq as well? You do understand what "retake" means, don't you? This is almost as funny as Howard Dean "retaking" the white house! "YEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRR"

BTW, off topic, how is Dean doing these days? And just how is Wesley Clark doing? Didn't you say he was a "rising star" and the best hope at becoming the next president? Please update us so we can see just how good your foresight is.

Have you heard any complaints about the progress of the 9/11 investigation by any of the 9/11 survivors groups? Ever hear of Jeremy M. Glick.

And what the hell does that have to do with complaints with the efforts in Afghanistan and capturing Osama? Care to be more specific, or are you just confused?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by spillmind
too bad it's like walking into a land mine posting here- everyone's suddenly got a trigger finger over this NYC disrespect thing! seriously! i would get paranoid sitting in the same room, due to the possibility of anyone one of these bushies just losing it and try to come after me! possible sadism?

No sadism, most likely just a bullet to the forehead.

no disrepect here of NYC, i don't know what it was like, so i'm not even going to try and relate. i think he was just trying to ask you why you defend bush and his 180°s?? i'll admit i am curious too.

Ummmm, no, he didn't. He CLEARLY said that others were laughing at NYC and that we should just get over it already.

sometimes i wonder if you are actually the puppet chimp himself, who figured out http://www.phpbb.com/ and got himself a little forum to raze anyone who opposed him! maybe IT in the WH hooked ya up??? nahhhhh. but i am seriously really suprised about how adamantly you back him. i can think of many things clinton did that were wrong, and i called a spade a spade! nobody is perfect.

I guess you're on the wrong board if you are looking for Bush and phpbb. I'll give you a hint - I've never used phpbb before, that's for little kiddies who don't mind being hacked and refuse to pay for a decent product.

When Clinton did good, I defended him. When he was wrong I chastised him. No different than Bush.

truth is, you cannot stop terror. i honestly wouldn't feel safe in the same room with all of you if you all had guns, and i would consider anyone pointing, shooting me a terrorist. i myself can order drums of ammonium nitrate and load it into a truck, and i only have some lame bio job.

Should we just give up then and ignore the terrorists?

 

[bamthin]

Originally posted by jimnyc
I don't care where the troops came from. At the time, removing Saddam was job #1 and additional troops were necessary.

Are you saying that if the soldiers remained in Afghanistan that Al Qaeda would have been eliminated? That they wouldn't have been able to have terrorists in Iraq?

And suppose they didn't maneuver troops from Afghanistan, wouldn't the likelihood of American soldiers getting killed in Iraq have increased due to lack of manpower? It's easy for you to sit back and judge where our soldiers are needed most, but then again you don't know shit about how our military currently operates.

And what do you know about our military? Maybe Jeff Record knows a bit more than both of us:

"Of particular concern has been the conflation of al-Qaeda and
Saddam Hussein’s Iraq as a single, undifferentiated terrorist threat. This was a strategic error of the first order because it ignoredcritical differences between the two in character, threat level, and susceptibility to U.S. deterrence and military action. The result has been an unnecessary preventive war of choice against a deterred Iraq that has created a new front in the Middle East for Islamic terrorism and diverted attention and resources away from securing the American homeland against further assault by an undeterrable al-Qaeda. The war against Iraq was not integral to the GWOT, but rather a detour from it."

http://www.carlisle.army.mil/ssi/pubs/2003/bounding/bounding.htm

Originally posted by jimnyc
Who said Saddam did have anything to do with 9/11? Here's a miniscule project that even YOU can handle, show me where I stated Saddam had anything to do with 9/11.

Terror leaders and major operatives have been captured and killed. Quite a few terror plots have been unfolded and stopped before the terrorist can act. Yes, terrorists have taken a serious hit in the past year.

Who said Iraq was more important than Osama? Can you handle 2 projects at once? Maneuvering troops to where the resistance is highest is just common sense. The search for Osama never stopped.

Here's a project for you, show me where I said you said Saddam has anything to do with 9/11. While you're at it, show me proof that "quite a few terror plots" have been unfolded and stopped. Read that report I posted and get educated. You don't know shit about foiled terror plots.

Originally posted by jimnyc
It doesn't matter, it was Saddam's job to prove what he did and didn't have, not the inspectors. He refused, lied & played his little cat and mouse games for 12 years. He gambled and lost.

It does matter jimnyc. Had bush just trusted Hans Blix and given him more time instead of rushing into Iraq and diluting the effort in Afghanistan, we would all know that Saddam was already disarmed.

Originally posted by jimnyc
What has happened since 9/11 to make you think America is unsafer due to Osama not being captured yet? Specifics, please.

Well, Alert condition orange around the holidays, grounded international flights, and didn't they just find ricin in Washington D.C.? How about that I feel less safe because Osama is still on the loose? He did mastermind 9/11 you know.

Originally posted by jimnyc
And what the hell does that have to do with complaints with the efforts in Afghanistan and capturing Osama? Care to be more specific, or are you just confused?

Not confused at all. The diversion to Iraq clearly took away from the effort in Afghanistan. Read the report I posted. This fact, in and of itself, is enough to delay/prevent justice of the person who was responsible for 9/11. It may have even allowed him to escape altogether. This is insulting, in my eyes, to the survivors of 9/11. What part of this simple notion can't you grasp?


-Bam

 

[jimnyc]

And what do you know about our military? Maybe Jeff Record knows a bit more than both of us:

As much as most on this board, which is why I leave those decisions up to the high ranking officers in the miltary. They are the best judge of what is needed.

Here's a project for you, show me where I said you said Saddam has anything to do with 9/11. While you're at it, show me proof that "quite a few terror plots" have been unfolded and stopped. Read that report I posted and get educated. You don't know shit about foiled terror plots.

So why did you say "Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11" when absolutely no one here said he did? What was the purpose of your comment? Were you just trying to throw crap into the thread to confuse the issues?

Here are a few links about thwarted terror attacks:

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_410014.html
http://quickstart.clari.net/qs_se/webnews/wed/bs/Qbritain-attacks.RwVp_DSP.html
http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20031203-054105-2085r.htm

Read this one in particular:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,73122,00.html

and this one:
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationw...46225.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

Maybe this one too:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/19/attack/main522532.shtml

Looks like it's you that doesn't know shit about foiled terror plots, but I'm not surprised in the least.

It does matter jimnyc. Had bush just trusted Hans Blix and given him more time instead of rushing into Iraq and diluting the effort in Afghanistan, we would all know that Saddam was already disarmed.

That's irrelevant, it was Saddam's duty to fully and unconditionally comply with all the resolutions. He did not.

Well, Alert condition orange around the holidays, grounded international flights, and didn't they just find ricin in Washington D.C.? How about that I feel less safe because Osama is still on the loose? He did mastermind 9/11 you know.

Yes, in other words their efforts to stop the attacks and the awareness level is working! What happened around the holidays? What happened with these grounded flights? Thanks for proving my point for me!

And what about the ricin in DC? Have they announced who put it there and exactly where it came from? Show me the facts.

Not confused at all. The diversion to Iraq clearly took away from the effort in Afghanistan. Read the report I posted. This fact, in and of itself, is enough to delay/prevent justice of the person who was responsible for 9/11. It may have even allowed him to escape altogether. This is insulting, in my eyes, to the survivors of 9/11. What part of this simple notion can't you grasp?

That wasn't a report, it was an opinion column. What part of "The views expressed in this report are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Department of the Army, the Department of Defense, or the U.S. Government." didn't you understand? Should we expect to see this report on cspan anytime soon?

I don't 'grasp' conspiracy theories and 'what if's'. I deal with the facts presented. I'm sorry you lack that ability.

 

[bamthin]

"Law enforcement and government officials caution that some evidence about the future plots is circumstantial at best, but it nonetheless compelled authorities to issue a series of terrorist warnings in recent days."





Sounds like a case of wishful thinking!


-Bam

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by bamthin
"Law enforcement and government officials caution that some evidence about the future plots is circumstantial at best, but it nonetheless compelled authorities to issue a series of terrorist warnings in recent days."





Sounds like a case of wishful thinking!


-Bam

Why haven't you responded to the many terror attacks that were thwarted? You said I didn't know shit about them. I posted an abundance of proof to show MANY have been thwarted. Avoiding the question doesn't make you look any less foolish for those comments, and it's now been proven that YOU were the one who didn't know shit about terror attacks that were thwarted. Thanks for playing and making it so easy for me.

 

[bamthin]

Once again, nice link!!

"Law enforcement and government officials caution that some evidence about the future plots is circumstantial at best, but it nonetheless compelled authorities to issue a series of terrorist warnings in recent days."


-Bam

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by bamthin


Once again, nice link!!

"Law enforcement and government officials caution that some evidence about the future plots is circumstantial at best, but it nonetheless compelled authorities to issue a series of terrorist warnings in recent days."


-Bam

I know you have intelligence issues, but simple addition would show you that 6 links were presented as evidence. It's a FACT that MANY terror plots have been stopped before they could act. Proof was given. You were wrong, again.

Anyone reading these threads can read your comments. They can then read the abundance of proof given to show you were wrong. Nothing is going to change that.

Thanks for playing!

 

[bamthin]

"Stevens said he could not go into details but said possible attacks had been foiled more than once."




"The two revelations came as Afghan Foreign Minister Abdullah visited Washington, expressing his concern that the Bush Administration's focus on Iraq might distract the U.S. from the still unfinished war on terrorism in Afghanistan."



-Bam

 

[jimnyc]

I know you don't like dealing with facts, but I'll post these anyway:

WASHINGTON — Nearly 100 terrorist attacks, some intended to take place on U.S. soil, have been thwarted since Sept. 11, 2001, FBI Director Robert Mueller says. But he warns that many potential terrorists remain at large in the United States.

"On terrorism, Mueller said "tens of attacks, probably close to a hundred around the world'' have been stopped in the past 15 months. He credited better intelligence gathering and coordination, and information from al-Qaida detainees in custody, including those he described as architects of would-be attacks."

"There have been any number of attacks on ships that have been thwarted,'' Mueller said. "Without getting into details, we have thwarted a number of attacks, both large and small.''

"One would have been on the US Embassy in Paris and the other would have been an attack with explosives on a military site in Brussels, Belgium."

"Saudi security forces, assisted by U.S. intelligence and law enforcement officials, last month foiled a major al-Qaida attack directed against the Saudi royal family in Riyadh, administration officials told United Press International."

"WASHINGTON -- The State Department said on Friday it had information that Iraqi intelligence officers planned terrorist attacks against U.S. interests in two foreign countries.

In both cases, the operatives were arrested, terrorist material was confiscated and attacks were not carried out, spokesman Richard Boucher said. "